Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[Akita Suggagaki]

Yes, we are all a slave to sin and only Jesus through His Word and instructions can deliver us into our promise land, just like He did for the Israelites. Many of them did not make it to the promise land due to disobedience Hebrews 4:6 and we are warned not to come short of entering His spiritual rest Hebrews 4:1 which is why the keeping of the Sabbath remains for the people of God Hebrews 4:9 and to enter into the spiritual rest in Christ one must also cease from their work (Sabbath- Exodus 20:8-11) just like God ceased from His work on the Sabbath day Genesis 2:1-3. Hebrews 4:10

The Festival of Unleavened Bread and The Festival of Weeks are no different from the Sabbath. They all are in the 10 Commandments of Exodus 34. They all commemorate. They all prefigure Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Festival of Unleavened Bread and The Festival of Weeks are no different from the Sabbath. They all are in the 10 Commandments of Exodus 34. They all commemorate. They all prefigure Christ.

Where are they in the Ten Commandments? Only the Sabbath commandment is written by the hand of God with the other 9 commandments, so yes, there is a difference. The Ten Commandments are in Exodus 20, I hope you’re not trying to rewrite these now!

 

[expos4ever]

Many want to lump all laws and commandments as one, when God did not.

Well, it is interesting that when Paul refers to the Law he almost always refers to it as, yes, "the Law" - no categoires. And what of Jesus? He certainly introduces no distinctions here:

For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;

Now I remind you: there is a strong, Biblically defensible case that Jesus is using metaphorical language here when he connects the expiry of the Law to the "end of the world". That is another debate. The point of immediate relevance is that Jesus does not, here at least, introduce any "categories" within the Law of Moses.

I believe most scholars will agree that, to the Jew of the day, the Law of Moses contained all the stuff in the first 5 books, including the 10.

Yes, we can talk about categories such as "moral" law, "ceremonial" law, etc. But we need to remember that we are imposing those distinctions, not the authors of scripture.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Where are they in the Ten Commandments? Only the Sabbath commandment is written by the hand of God with the other 9 commandments, so yes, there is a difference. The Ten Commandments are in Exodus 20, I hope you’re not trying to rewrite these now!

Can you not read Exodus 34:11-26?

11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.

17 “Do not make any idols.

18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.

“No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the Lord your God.

25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.

26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.

“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Can you not read Exodus 34:12-26?

Of course I can but the Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20 both spoken by our Creator and Savior and written by His own finger . There are other laws written in the book of Moses, but only God wrote and spoke His Ten Commandments.

Here they are for your reference, which each one are repeated for everyday Christian living in the New Covenant .

The Ten Commandments

Exodus 20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that isin the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Of course I can but the Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20 both spoken and written by the finger of God.

Here they are for your reference, which each one are repeated for everyday Christian living in the New Covenant .

The Ten Commandments

Exodus 20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that isin the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

So you don't want to count those in Exodus 34:18-26?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Of course I can but the Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20 both spoken by our Creator and Savior and written by His own finger . There are other laws written in the book of Moses, but only God wrote and spoke His Ten Commandments.

Here they are for your reference, which each one are repeated for everyday Christian living in the New Covenant .

The Ten Commandments

Exodus 20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that isin the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

The Commandments you speak of were broken and replaced by the ones in Exodus 34.

19 When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So you don't want to count those in Exodus 34:18-26?

Of course I can but the Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20 both spoken by our Creator and Savior and written by His own finger . There are other laws written in the book of Moses, but only God wrote and spoke His Ten Commandments.

Here they are for your reference, which each one are repeated for everyday Christian living in the New Covenant .

The Ten Commandments

Exodus 20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that isin the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lordblessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

After Moses broke the first set of the 10 commandments He wrote on tables of stone, God told Moses to hew out two more tables of stone where God re-wrote out the second set again *Exodus 34:1-2. Yes the early scriptures tell us that God re-wrote out what was broken before the first time. Keep in mind that there are Gods eternal laws written on the tables of stone and spoken by God alone *Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 32:16 and God also gave Moses instructions to be written in the book of the law or covenant *Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 31:24-26 where we have many of the "shadow laws" for remission of sins.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Commandments you speak of were broken and replaced by the ones in Exodus 34.

19 When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain.

They were replaced with the exact Ten. I’m sorry I’m not sure the point you keep trying to make.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

They were replaced with the exact Ten. I’m sorry I’m not sure the point you keep trying to make.

How many times do I have to write it? The replacement 10 include:

18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, at the time appointed in the month Abib; for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

19 All that openeth the womb is mine; and all thy cattle that is male, the firstlings of cow and sheep.

20 And the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break its neck. All the first-born of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in plowing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, [even] of the first-fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

23 Three times in the year shall all thy males appear before the Lord Jehovah, the God of Israel.

24 For I will cast out nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou goest up to appear before Jehovah thy God three times in the year.

25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

26 The first of the first-fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of Jehovah thy God. Thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother's milk.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

How many times do I have to write it? The replacement 10 include:

18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, at the time appointed in the month Abib; for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

19 All that openeth the womb is mine; and all thy cattle that is male, the firstlings of cow and sheep.

20 And the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break its neck. All the first-born of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in plowing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, [even] of the first-fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

23 Three times in the year shall all thy males appear before the Lord Jehovah, the God of Israel.

24 For I will cast out nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou goest up to appear before Jehovah thy God three times in the year.

25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

26 The first of the first-fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of Jehovah thy God. Thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother's milk.

It’s already been explained to you, God did not write new commandments on stone, it’s the same Ten found is Exodus 20:1-17, Exodus 34 is what God was speaking to Moses at the time, not what He wrote on stone which is exactly what He wrote the first time. Jesus said you know the commandments quoting directly from the Ten Matthew 19:17-19 stating we keep the least of these commandments, we will be least in heaven again quoting from the Ten. Mathew 5:19-30.

Just a quick count in Exodus 34, a lot more than 10, because it’s not the Ten Commandments that God wrote with His own finger found in Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28, Exodus 31:18. I think most people recognize what the Ten Commandments are, I am sorry you don’t see this, but it’s clearly written in scripture.

 

[expos4ever]

Where are they in the Ten Commandments? Only the Sabbath commandment is written by the hand of God with the other 9 commandments, so yes, there is a difference.

Obviously, there is a difference. But is it a difference that makes a difference? A difference that warrants the conclusion that the 10 live on? Paul certainly does not believe this. In Romans 7, he declares that we no longer serve the Law and it is beyond question that He is including the 10 commandments.

You really owe us an explanation of why the fact that God wrote these with His finger means that these laws can never be "retired" within the setting of a Biblical narrative that is obviously an evolving one.

 

[expos4ever]

2 Chronicles 33:8
and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”

Were the 10 not delivered by the hand of Moses?

Again, a huge pillar of your argument appears to be the fact that the 10 were engraved by the finger of God and the others were not.

Well, why does that distinction merit your believing that they live on when you concede the other elements of the Law of Moses are not set aside?

I could just as easily declare that since the instruction to abstain from certain foods came straight from God's mouth that this accords those laws "special" status, and on the basis of such status, they are not retired.

Why does "delivery by finger" outweigh "delivery by voice"?

 

[expos4ever]

....*Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 31:24-26 where we have many of the "shadow laws" for remission of sins.

Who came up with the term "shadow laws"?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It’s already been explained to you, God did not write new commandments on stone, it’s the same Ten found is Exodus 20:1-17, Exodus 34 is what God was speaking to Moses at the time, not what He wrote on stone which is exactly what He wrote the first time. Jesus said you know the commandments quoting directly from the Ten Matthew 19:17-19 stating we keep the least of these commandments, we will be least in heaven again quoting from the Ten. Mathew 5:19-30.

Just a quick count in Exodus 34, a lot more than 10, because it’s not the Ten Commandments that God wrote with His own finger found in Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28, Exodus 31:18. I think most people recognize what the Ten Commandments are, I am sorry you don’t see this, but it’s clearly written in scripture.

What is clearly written is scripture is that God commanded Moses to chisel the commandments of Exodus 34:1-28 on stone tablets. They are the stone tablets carried in the Ark of the Covenant. Not the tablets of Genesis and Exodus 20:1-17.

And as I said before, The Festival of Unleavened Bread and The Festival of Weeks are no different from the Sabbath. They all are in the 10 Commandments of Exodus 34:1-28. They all commemorate. They all prefigure Christ.

But you wore me out. I am done.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What is clearly written is scripture is that God commanded Moses to chisel the commandments of Exodus 34:1-28 on stone tablets. They are the stone tablets carried in the Ark of the Covenant. Not the tablets of Genesis and Exodus 20:1-17.

And as I said before, The Festival of Unleavened Bread and The Festival of Weeks are no different from the Sabbath. They all are in the 10 Commandments of Exodus 34:1-28. They all commemorate. They all prefigure Christ.

But you wore me out. I am done.

There are only one Ten Commandments according to scripture from Exodus 20 and the scripture tells us God wrote the same commandments engraved in stone by His own finger, not something different.


And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the Lord had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me. Deuteronomy 10:4

I hope this helps.

God bless

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

There are only one Ten Commandments according to scripture from Exodus 20 and the scripture tells us God wrote the same commandments engraved in stone by His own finger, not something different.


And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the Lord had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me. Deuteronomy 10:4

I hope this helps.

God bless

1 last: How do you account for Exodus 34:1-18 that were after the ones in Deuteronomy?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

1 last: How do you account for Exodus 34:1-18 that were after the ones in Deuteronomy?

Do you not believe this scripture? Deuteronomy 10:4 God rewrote the Ten Commandments and they are exactly as the first found in Exodus 20.

Exodus 34 is after making the second set of the Ten Commandments and was other things God was talking to Moses about, some from the Ten like the Sabbath and some from the law of Moses, but God only wrote the Ten with His own finger on stone and they are the same Ten Commandments as the first set according to scripture.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Do you not believe this scripture?

It seems it is you who do not beleive scripture

Exodus 34
28 And he was there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Referring to the ten of Exodus 34:1-27. Must I list them again including the festivals of Leavened Bread and Weeks?

These are the commandment in the Ark

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It seems it is you who do not beleive scripture

Exodus 34
28 And he was there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Referring to the ten of Exodus 34:1-27. Must I list them again including the festivals of Leavened Bread and Weeks?

These are the commandment in the Ark

Everyone knows what the Ten Commandments are or at least they should.

The original Ten Commandments are found here: Exodus 20:1-17. God rewrote the EXACT Ten on stone according to scripture Deuteronomy 10:4 , not different commandments. If you look at Exodus 34 God is reviewing some of the Ten and other laws as noted after writing the second set of the Ten Commandment in Exodus 34. I am pretty sure our Creator knows how to count. Jesus quotes directly from the Ten often found in Exodus 20. I believe in the Word of God that when He tells us He wrote the same commandments as the original both with His own finger, I believe it. We will have to agree to disagree. I'm not going to respond further on this subject. Take care.