Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[Leaf473]

So you approve of one of God's Commandments then?

I approve of the principles of all of the instructions in the entire law.

And you admit that it remains?

Yes in the sense that the scriptures containing those words are still here. But No in the sense that it is in effect on us.

We can look at it this way:
It is against the law in North Korea to criticize the leader.

I don't criticize the leader of North Korea (though I do disagree with his policies).

I don't criticize him because it doesn't fit with the principle of loving your neighbor as yourself.

Do I admit that the law exists in North Korea? Yes. But I am not under it, even though I do what it says in this case.

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you.

 

[Leaf473]

James 2 "to break one is to break them all"

which of God's commandments do you not end/delete as soon as the Carpenter from Nazareth pays tithe?

I don't think anything ended when Jesus paid his tithe.

Things passed away from the law when:
Heaven and Earth passed away
and/or
All things were accomplished.

As I read the scriptures, the entire law passed away when at least one of those two conditions were met.

But the key to understanding why I think that starts with agreeing that at least one of those two conditions were met. Since we both agree that at least some part of the law has passed away, the ball is in your court now, so to speak.

Which of the above two conditions have been met, if you wish to say?

Peace be with you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Romans 8:1–4 CSB17
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do since it was weakened by the flesh, God did. He condemned sin in the flesh by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh as a sin offering, in order that the law’s requirement would be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”

Christ fulfilled the Torah (and more than that as he lived a perfect life; the law doesn't save anyone) so we can live by the Spirit of Christ, which is love.

You need to keep reading….

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

There are more commands in the New Testament than in the Torah. Yet, they are all under the umbrella of love. Everything hangs on love. If you can figure out how to love God and love your neighbor perfectly, let me know, and we can all start being idle and wait for Christ to come.

If you love God you keep His commandments. Love to God is obedience to His commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[All Becomes New]

You need to keep reading….

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

And yet, SDA believes we are nothing but flesh. Only Christ can fulfill the Law because only He is born of Spirit. We have our new birth (regeneration), but this just means our flesh is at war with our new nature, not that we will ever attain perfection (which is what Paul said about Himself).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And yet, SDA believes we are nothing but flesh. Only Christ can fulfill the Law because only He is born of Spirit. We have our new birth (regeneration), but this just means our flesh is at war with our new nature, not that we will ever attain perfection (which is what Paul said about Himself).

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments- not it’s too hard to do so, so don’y try. What we can’t do on our own we can through Christ. Philippians 4:13

 

[All Becomes New]

Non-responsive to the text.

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments- not it’s too hard to do so, so don’y try. What we can’t do on our own we can through Christ.

1 John 1:8 CSB17
“If we say, “We have no sin,” we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

 

[SabbathBlessings]

1 John 1:8 CSB17
“If we say, “We have no sin,” we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

No one is claiming that, but living in perpetual sin is something we can overcome through Christ. Unless you think the devil has more power to keep you in sin than Jesus does to help gain victory over it.

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

 

[All Becomes New]

No one is claiming that, but living in perpetual sin is something we can overcome through Christ. Unless you think the devil has more power to keep you in sin than Jesus does to help gain victory over it.

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

I believe in progressive sanctification and even think it is necessary for salvation (read my signature). But the Law that we follow is of the Spirit and not a list of dos and don'ts. It is, overall, a condition of our hearts. Christ fulfilled far more than the Law. He fulfilled all righteousness, which is why He was baptized (among many other things). Christ does what is impossible for us to do. If you have no communion with the Spirit, then your rule-keeping is in vain.

 

[Leaf473]

Why wouldn't "do not take God's name in vain" come under the Deut 6:4 greatest commandment "Love God with all your heart" as Christ said in Matt 22 of all the law and the prophets? Do you also not approve of Christ's teaching in Matt 22??

Why do you place it under what Christ calls the second greatest commandment "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 instead of the first which is Deut 6:4??? Did you also delete the first and greatest commandment in the Law of Moses even though it is the basis for all scripture according to Christ in Matt 22?? (All the Law and the Prophets)

I place it under Love your neighbor as yourself, because that's what Paul does:

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you don't consume one another.
Galatians 5

No commandments are deleted.

I approve of all of Jesus's teachings. I also keep in mind that he taught under the old covenant:
Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, “I want to. Be made clean.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Jesus said to him, “See that you tell nobody; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”
Matthew 8

Here, Jesus instructs someone to perform an animal sacrifice, which we both agree doesn't have to be done today.

Did I get all of your questions? Please let me know if I missed one

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I believe in progressive sanctification and even think it is necessary for salvation (read my signature). But the Law that we follow is of the Spirit and not a list of dos and don'ts. It is, overall, a condition of our hearts. Christ fulfilled far more than the Law. He fulfilled all righteousness, which is why He was baptized (among many other things). Christ does what is impossible for us to do. If you have no communion with the Spirit, then your rule-keeping is in vain.

We should not depend on our version of righteousness but instead depend on God’s Psalms 119:172. Our righteousness can’t save or sanctify us. We are sanctified through the Truth of God’s Word. John 17:17. Those who keep not the commandments there is no truth in them. 1 John 2:3-6. Sin is breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 Jesus came to save us from our sins not in them, Matthew 1:21 The Spirit convicts us of sin (breaking God’s Law) if we have not harden our hearts, Jesus gives us His Spirit so we can obey His commandments John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32. We are saved by grace through faith. True faith leads us to obedience to God because we love Him and want to do what He asks of us through love and faith. John 14:15, 1 John 5:3 Revelation 14:12, Romans 3:31

 

[Leaf473]

So then what planet do you live on now?

What planet "will pass away" in the future according to 2 Peter 3 - if the one you used to be on -- already passed away? Is Peter predicting that the planet you are on now is also going to pass away in 2 Peter 3?

You may wish to deal with the whole sentence:

However, the entire law was fulfilled when
Heaven and Earth passed away,
and/or
All was accomplished.

Myself, I think Heaven and Earth passing away is metaphorical, an idiom.

However, we both agree at this point that at least part of the law has passed away. So I'm interested in hearing whether you believe heaven and Earth have passed away or all things have been accomplished.

Deuteronomy 4
I call heaven and earth to witness

Heaven and Earth are common Hebrew idiom imo.

 

[All Becomes New]

True faith leads us to obedience to God because we love Him and want to do what He asks of us through love and faith.

No one is perfect except Christ.

Sanctification is not merely by reading the Bible. It is based on exercising loving God and others and being progressively conformed to the image of Christ. Paul says, imitate me as I imitate Christ. But Paul does not only do what the Law says. You need the spirit for that.

Tell me, if you keep the Law, do you also emphasize prophecy?

1 Corinthians 14:1 CSB17
“Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophesy.”

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
Why wouldn't "do not take God's name in vain" come under the Deut 6:4 greatest commandment "Love God with all your heart" as Christ said in Matt 22 of all the law and the prophets? Do you also not approve of Christ's teaching in Matt 22??

Why do you place it under what Christ calls the second greatest commandment "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 instead of the first which is Deut 6:4??? Did you also delete the first and greatest commandment in the Law of Moses even though it is the basis for all scripture according to Christ in Matt 22?? (All the Law and the Prophets)

I place it under Love your neighbor as yourself, because that's what Paul does:

Paul never says "do not Take God's name in vain" comes under Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor"

Jesus said the GREATEST commandment is "Love God with all your heart" Matt 22 and the SECOND one is "Love your neighbor" Lev 19:18
Then in Matt 19 Jesus quotes the same list as Paul in Rom 13 -- just the commands about loving your neighbor from Lev 19:18.

details matter.

Jesus is greater than Paul
Love God with all your heart Deut 6:4 is greater than Lev 19:18 according to Jesus.

But you have free will - you don't need to agree with Jesus' point if you do not wish to - in your affirmation of the Law of Moses and Lev 19:18

 

[BobRyan]

I approve of the principles of all of the instructions in the entire law.

is deleting the Law of God your way of affirming it in the case of "Do not take God's name in vain"???

 

[BobRyan]

Tell me, if you keep the Law, do you also emphasize prophecy?

1 Corinthians 14:1 CSB17
“Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and especially that you may prophesy.”

SabbathBlessing is a Seventh-day Adventist -- they attend to value prophesy.

 

[All Becomes New]

SabbathBlessing is a Seventh-day Adventist -- they attend to value prophesy.

Interesting. How do you guys go about giving prophecy? Is it by the Holy Spirit or through intellect?

 

[All Becomes New]

is deleting the Law of God your way of affirming it in the case of "Do not take God's name in vain"???

How do you make sacrifices with no temple?

 

[BobRyan]

the entire law was fulfilled when
Heaven and Earth passed away,

So then what planet do you live on now?

What planet "will pass away" in the future according to 2 Peter 3 - if the one you used to be on -- already passed away? Is Peter predicting that the planet you are on now is also going to pass away in 2 Peter 3?

You may wish to deal with the whole sentence:
Myself, I think Heaven and Earth passing away is metaphorical, an idiom.

You may wish to read more of the Bible - specifically the text I quoted that you claim to be responding to. (although you did say at one time you don't actually read the posts you respond to ...so there is that)

But for the unbiased objective readers - we have this.

2 Peter 3.
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue just as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed by being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly people.

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be discovered.

11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

Peter does not say that the Earth he knew about in Matt 5 at Christ's teaching had passed away.

Rev 21 John (who also heard the teaching of Christ) says the earth passes away after the 1000 years in Rev 21. (another text you will need to avoid if not liking what it says).

========================

But since in your case - you claim your earth and your air are now gone in some symbolic way - that means you think the command to not take God's name in vain is now gone -- because the Carpenter from Nazareth paid tithe one day. That has to be a pretty consistent system of speculation you have patched together. In any case you have free will - you can believe as you wish. (seems like all the discussions between you and me eventually end up that way).

Reminds me of Eph 4 statement about being tossed about by every wind of doctrine. Interesting text - you might want to take a look at it.

Have a nice day.

 

[BobRyan]

Interesting. How do you guys go about giving prophecy?

We have the most well read modern books of prophetic statements on the planet at present in the form of "The Great Controversy" - and you?

Our denomination has 5 distinctive teachings

1. Spirit of prophecy
2. State of the dead
3. Sanctuary of God in heaven
4. Second Coming of Christ
5. Sabbath at the end of time

 

[BobRyan]

How do you make sacrifices with no temple?

Heb 10 says animal sacrifices and offerings end at the cross
Heb 7 says Levitical priesthood ends at the cross.

Paul says "circumcision does not matter - what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
where "The FIRST commandment with a promise is 'Honor your father and mother' " Eph 6:2 in that still valid set of TEN
No wonder John says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

(hence my signature line)