Creeping Liberalism

[gzt]

Well, you either endure the suck, try to make it better, or go somewhere else.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

Well, as is the case with our current Quaker meeting, I find it much easier to endure the suck if you can go some place else where you feel nutured - at least part time.

 

[ArmyMatt]

False perception of love and attempts to redefine the wording and meaning of the word itself so to confuse sheeps to think they're fighting for the good side when actually they're leading people away from the faith.
It's indeed highly demonic and dare I say even satanic.

yeppers, when someone like JPII removes Crosses on his churches to the Dalia Lama can put up his idols to worship, red flags should go off big time. very demonic

 

[ArmyMatt]

What happens if you move somewhere that there is no Orthodox church, or there's only one Orthodox church and it really sucks?

no Church? I would just do reader services (it's what I did in Afghanistan) until I could get to a Church. a sucky one? I would go, because you are there to receive the Eucharist until I could get to a good one.

But, because I'm a member of a Quaker meeting in Virginia that's part of the same yearly meeting it's expected that I'll attend this meeting even though I feel spiritually stifled, repressed, and even oppressed there and get absolutely nothing out of the worship. Except for the little bit of socializing after meeting, for me, it's wasted time.

in a loving way, have you made this known?

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

no Church? I would just do reader services (it's what I did in Afghanistan) until I could get to a Church. a sucky one? I would go, because you are there to receive the Eucharist until I could get to a good one.



in a loving way, have you made this known?

What is a reader service?

My husband knows how I feel about it, and so do the Friends at my old meeting in Virginia. Makes no difference.

 

[~Anastasia~]

This thread makes me think of a question I have, but haven't gotten a satisfactory answer to: I know that if you become Orthodox you're supposed to only worship at Orthodox churches/take communion at an Orthodox church.

What happens if you move somewhere that there is no Orthodox church, or there's only one Orthodox church and it really sucks? I asked the choir director at our church that question, and he told me about another Orthodox church near us that has a lot of problems and ours is like a family. But, he didn't tell me what you should do if your only option is like the first church.

I don't like the Quaker meeting I attend with my husband. Were it my choice alone, I wouldn't go there. I would probably go full time to the Orthodox church. But, because I'm a member of a Quaker meeting in Virginia that's part of the same yearly meeting it's expected that I'll attend this meeting even though I feel spiritually stifled, repressed, and even oppressed there and get absolutely nothing out of the worship. Except for the little bit of socializing after meeting, for me, it's wasted time.

I haven't ever been to any Orthodox church other than the one I live near. Clearly they're not all the same - as is evidenced by this thread.

no Church? I would just do reader services (it's what I did in Afghanistan) until I could get to a Church. a sucky one? I would go, because you are there to receive the Eucharist until I could get to a good one.



in a loving way, have you made this known?

Most advice I have heard about not having a Church nearby at all is exactly what Matt said. I have listened to call-in shows on AFR (Ancient Faith Radio, it's a great resource) and it has been a very common question - people interested in Orthodoxy but no Church for hundreds of miles. The priests usually advised to begin reader services, and just visit a Church whenever they could, even if it was only once every few months. If you contact a priest and parish, there's a good chance someone will be willing to put your family up overnight if necessary so that you can attend. It's also possible that there is other interest within driving distance and a priest can visit from time to time.

I believe in the long-ago past it was common to advise Orthodox to attend a service at an Episcopal or other particular parish in order to be going to services, but those have changed so much that this is no longer the case.

But if there is a parish? The Eucharist is central, and once a person is fully Orthodox, I would go to the most terrible parish if it was all that was, in order to receive the Eucharist, just as Matt said. And of course, try to make a difference. It can be very tiring though, I'm sure (not that I've had this happen in Orthodoxy, but I know from various denominations, it's difficult to swim against the stream).

I wish I could help with the issue of problems with the other meeting. I attended with my husband for a while, a different church each week (because we had no church home) - or actually, reaching further back a few years, wherever he wanted to go usually, and we could never find a place he was satisfied with long enough to settle in. But I went with him, even though I often got nothing out of it. It got so bad toward the end though that I literally wanted to run from the building during the worship. My priest even now advises me to go with my husband from time to time for his sake, and I do try, but he still has no church and goes so seldom (usually deciding at the last minute not to go) that it's difficult to plan with him. I am not willing to miss my Church in order to go with him and end up staying home. You will be in my prayers for this.

 

[buzuxi02]

This thread makes me think of a question I have, but haven't gotten a satisfactory answer to: I know that if you become Orthodox you're supposed to only worship at Orthodox churches/take communion at an Orthodox church.

What happens if you move somewhere that there is no Orthodox church, or there's only one Orthodox church and it really sucks? I asked the choir director at our church that question, and he told me about another Orthodox church near us that has a lot of problems and ours is like a family. But, he didn't tell me what you should do if your only option is like the first church.
.

There are reader services. Basically you can read portions of the service books minus any of the parts intended for the ordained clergy. You can do this in front of your icon corner and if you want to get fancy you can burn some incense and have your oil lamp lit.

You can go to stjonah.org where many reader services are available.

 

[gzt]

Though I would just note that, if one has not been involved with Orthodox worship in the past, you would likely have no idea what is going on with those services.

Anyway, I've known people in the situation of having only a horrible local church. Those were their three options, I've seen them all tried. The most unfortunate case is when the only real option is to stop showing up at the parish because it's so awful, but I've seen that done. They hopefully periodically make it somewhere else. But this is a rare, rare type of thing to happen and I don't think that kind of pathology should really inform one's thoughts about Orthodoxy.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What is a reader service?

they made services that can be done without the clergy parts to it.

My husband knows how I feel about it, and so do the Friends at my old meeting in Virginia. Makes no difference.

how would they feel about you pursuing Orthodoxy?

 

[E.C.]

This thread makes me think of a question I have, but haven't gotten a satisfactory answer to: I know that if you become Orthodox you're supposed to only worship at Orthodox churches/take communion at an Orthodox church.

What happens if you move somewhere that there is no Orthodox church, or there's only one Orthodox church and it really sucks? I asked the choir director at our church that question, and he told me about another Orthodox church near us that has a lot of problems and ours is like a family. But, he didn't tell me what you should do if your only option is like the first church.

I don't like the Quaker meeting I attend with my husband. Were it my choice alone, I wouldn't go there. I would probably go full time to the Orthodox church. But, because I'm a member of a Quaker meeting in Virginia that's part of the same yearly meeting it's expected that I'll attend this meeting even though I feel spiritually stifled, repressed, and even oppressed there and get absolutely nothing out of the worship. Except for the little bit of socializing after meeting, for me, it's wasted time.

I haven't ever been to any Orthodox church other than the one I live near. Clearly they're not all the same - as is evidenced by this thread.

Do you live in Virginia?

The short answer is that you follow the guidance of your spiritual father.

The complicated answer is, well, it depends. God help me the day I'm on a nine month deployment on a ship I like to believe I'd be okay with Reader Vespers and other services. But if there was an Eastern Catholic chaplain I'd probably go to his liturgy without receiving Communion.

If the only Orthodox church in the area isn't a good one because of the priest than inform the bishop. If the priest is good but the people suck than inform the priest. Either way they can't fix what they don't know is broken.

 

[Wgw]

What is a reader service?

My husband knows how I feel about it, and so do the Friends at my old meeting in Virginia. Makes no difference.

The majority of Orthodox services, that is to say, those that do not involve the sacred mysteries or sacramentals like the blessing of holy water, can be done by the laity (in certain forms). These include Vespers, Matins, and the Hours, the Akathists, and the Typika (a service structurally similiar to the divine liturgy but without the Eucharist). In fact, the priestless Russian Old Belivers have been doing reader services only since the 17th century (owing to what I regard as a gross overreaction to the Nikonian reforms to the Russian use of the Byzantine liturgical rite).

There are many small Orthodox parishes in the US that lac a full time priest, that on occasion have to do reader services as a result.

 

[JM]

This was how the Greek Orthodox I know talked about Orthodoxy.

Tom Hanks is Orthodox? He seems to be extremely liberal and unorthodox. Would someone that holds to such unorthodox teaching be allowed to take part in Communion?

 

[Wgw]

This was how the Greek Orthodox I know talked about Orthodoxy.

Tom Hanks is Orthodox? He seems to be extremely liberal and unorthodox. Would someone that holds to such unorthodox teaching be allowed to take part in Communion?

Has Tom Hanks publically disputed the teachings of the Orthodox Church? Starring in the Da Vinci Code would not endear him to some conservative priests, however, since it is fiction, it is difficult to see an argument for anathematizing him on that basis. I prefer not to second guess someone's bishop.

 

[JM]

Hanks is a very outspoken supporter of the gay agenda.

 

[E.C.]

Tom Hanks is Orthodox? He seems to be extremely liberal and unorthodox. Would someone that holds to such unorthodox teaching be allowed to take part in Communion?

Starring in a work of fiction is hardly evident of holding unorthodox views. He's an actor and it is his job to be in movies. Whether he receives Communion or not or how often is a matter between he and his priest or spiritual father.

 

[GregConstantine]

but what if it is true he is a big supporter of gay marriage? what if he is vocal about it, supports it, send money to it, etc?

It's def between the person and their priest, but once a person starts publically showing support/teaching things contrary to the Church, what then?

 

[Wgw]

but what if it is true he is a big supporter of gay marriage? what if he is vocal about it, supports it, send money to it, etc?

It's def between the person and their priest, but once a person starts publically showing support/teaching things contrary to the Church, what then?

It falls on their bishop. One can complain that Goarch has not been as proactive about this as, say, the Church of Greece, the MP, ROCOR or Antioch.

 

[ZaidaBoBaida]

I have to agree that Tom Hanks is a huge supporter of the gay agenda and is very outspoken about it.

 

[buzuxi02]

Is Tom Hanks really Orthodox? I'm not aware of him ever being chrismated. From one interview I remember he said he attended his wife's church, but never said he was Orthodox.

 

[Wgw]

Is Tom Hanks really Orthodox? I'm not aware of him ever being chrismated. From one interview I remember he said he attended his wife's church, but never said he was Orthodox.

He appeared on a pro-Orthodox billboard in Russia, I believe.