Creeping Liberalism

[JM]

I've found more than a few articles online about Liberalism being found in the Eastern Orthodox church at disturbingly high levels. Laity and clergy seems to be in support of gay marriage, ecumenism, etc. Is this a problem with Orthodox in the West, East or both? I don't see these issues in the Russian Orthodox church.

Thanks.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Not that I've seen either online or in person, except for one or two outspoken persons that are - fringe types.

 

[Cappadocious]

I've found more than a few articles online about Liberalism being found in the Eastern Orthodox church at disturbingly high levels. Laity and clergy seems to be in support of gay marriage, ecumenism, etc. Is this a problem with Orthodox in the West, East or both? I don't see these issues in the Russian Orthodox church.

Thanks.

You in Russia?

 

[JM]

You in Russia?

No, not at all, but my conversations with Russian Orthodox give me the impression that Russia is the Third Rome. When I attend a Greek Orthodox church they were liberal, cultural and more interested in being Greek than being Orthodox.

I was happy to see the notes in the Orthodox Study Bible are conservative.

 

[~Anastasia~]

No, not at all, but my conversations with Russian Orthodox give me the impression that Russia is the Third Rome. When I attend a Greek Orthodox church they were liberal, cultural and more interested in being Greek than being Orthodox.

I was happy to see the notes in the Orthodox Study Bible are conservative.

I have heard reports of Greek parishes that were said to be more like cultural centers than the Church. I don't know. Our parish is not like that, nor have I visited any or known personally anyone who was in one. I suppose it's entirely possible. Such charges often have some basis in fact somewhere. But it's not something I have seen. Admittedly my scope in Orthodoxy is pretty limited.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I've found more than a few articles online about Liberalism being found in the Eastern Orthodox church at disturbingly high levels. Laity and clergy seems to be in support of gay marriage, ecumenism, etc. Is this a problem with Orthodox in the West, East or both? I don't see these issues in the Russian Orthodox church.

Thanks.

I have seen far more that have come out against it, then for it. although one is one too many. you find this kinda stuff everywhere. Satan knows he cannot overthrow the Church from the outside, so he attacks from within and in the name of "love."

 

[Cappadocious]

If it is the 3rd Rome we know how that's gonna end. Building new Romes is like building new death stars. A pattern begins to emerge.

 

[gzt]

Third Rome is Fourth Babylon.

 

[gzt]

Anyway, people like to dump on the Greeks. I would just say that all the Greek priests I know are very good and are focused on preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't know what you think liberalism is. It is not really an appropriate word in a churchly context. And on the other hand you can find people in Orthodox circles who would get along famously with Fred Phelps.

 

[buzuxi02]

I've found more than a few articles online about Liberalism being found in the Eastern Orthodox church at disturbingly high levels. Laity and clergy seems to be in support of gay marriage, ecumenism, etc. Is this a problem with Orthodox in the West, East or both? I don't see these issues in the Russian Orthodox church.

Thanks.

Orthodox are the only Christians that find ecumenism problematic, that's why you probably even heard of it. We prefer to leave the WCC and cease dialogues with the heterodox. Those that participate in ecumenical dialogues say they are not participating in ecumenism, just dialogues to prepare the heterodox to convert (obviously not everyone buys that) which is why we have no problem criticising our bishops. When was the last time there was an outcry by roman catholics against the Pope for evumenism? Let alone anglicans, presbyterians, lutherans, old catholics, who all (falsely) believe it's the will of God.

In the diaspora immigrants tend to be more liberal (except for middle eastern christians), but the Church of Greece is staunchly anti-ecumenist and hardly liberal. I'm glad to say in the past few months that the Church of Greece has woken up and has issued some of the strongest condemnations against "EU" values, against their politicians and against the homosexual agenda.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Anyway, people like to dump on the Greeks. I would just say that all the Greek priests I know are very good and are focused on preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

plus the Greeks have Mt Athos, and all Athonite Monasteries in the US and Canada. I highly doubt they would be for anything that in this thread is being classified as liberal.

 

[gzt]

Hopefully they are liberal with their baklava.

 

[Lukaris]

In the USA, the Antiochian Archdiocese upholds the definition of the sexes and the sacrament of marriage as our Lord preached in Mark 10 & Matthew 19 (Genesis 1:27, Genesis 2:24).

http://www.antiochian.org/metropolitan-josephs-archiepiscopal-directive-so-called-same-sex-marriage

 

[JM]

Baptists find ecumenicalism problematic. My Pastor fences the Table during the Lord's Supper excluding nonbaptists.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Baptists find ecumenicalism problematic. My Pastor fences the Table during the Lord's Supper excluding nonbaptists.

Really? When I was baptist, (of course there are different kinds, so that might not mean anything) - but when I was Baptist, the communion was open to all baptized believers. One had to be baptized by immersion, as a believer (not as an infant), but that was their only requirements as far as I can remember.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Anyway, people like to dump on the Greeks. I would just say that all the Greek priests I know are very good and are focused on preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't know what you think liberalism is. It is not really an appropriate word in a churchly context. And on the other hand you can find people in Orthodox circles who would get along famously with Fred Phelps.

That helps explain a little. Every time I turn around, the Greeks are being criticized. And I can't say much - I don't know all Greeks. But I do know that in my parish, I see nothing like what people are often complaining about. Nor in parishes I have visited, nor with the Greeks I know online. And as Matt said, I think of Mt. Athos, and some of the amazing Saints we have had. But ... I still know only a tiny fraction, so I can't say anything.

But all the Greek priests I know are wonderful.

 

[DLR]

Really? When I was baptist, (of course there are different kinds, so that might not mean anything) - but when I was Baptist, the communion was open to all baptized believers. One had to be baptized by immersion, as a believer (not as an infant), but that was their only requirements as far as I can remember.

Those rules are exactly the same as all Baptist churches I have attended.

 

[JM]

Historically, if a Baptist wanted to change churches for any reason they needed a transfer letter from their former church to their new church. I know of Protestant churches in my area that will phone your previous church to inquire if the person is under discipline and if they were baptized using the Trinitarian formula. Before they become members the new person is examined by the Elders and after it is put to a congregational vote.

Pulpit & Pen is a podcast that consistently attacks ecumenicalism in the Southern Baptist Convention. You will find Reformed Christians (paedobaptists and credobaptists) are not overly ecumenical.

Why is the Orthodox church apart of the World Council of churches? Isn't that ecumenicalism with liberal lines of Christianity?

Thanks

 

[gzt]

The general justification is that where people are talking about Christian unity, we should be there. The Orthodox presence has had a very conservative influence and has stopped them from saying some silly things in the past as well as changing some of the goals of the organization. Whether the Orthodox can still stick around with them is a good question, but there hasn't been any influence from the WCC on the Orthodox doctrine or practice or attitudes, so what's the fear?

Florovsky was quite involved and had some reflections on it, they may be available on google.

 

[gzt]

And some bishops are willing to go anywhere they can get a free warm meal.