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Natsumi Lam

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I would think forgiveness is a natural offspring of love though, no?
Not necessarily. I have forgiving my exinlaws and i cant stand them.
 
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fhansen

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The real point of the Christian message is that it doesn't really work. The Old Covenant fails to justify man-and keep us on the even moral keel that it proposes- because man fails to love. This is why it can be said that love fulfills the law. This is why the Greatest Commandments are what they are. And this is why Paul lifted love to the highest level, above faith and hope, in 1 Cor.
 
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Oldmantook

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Not knowing Greek and claiming that your belief is supported by the scriptures is sheer ignorance and folly; but nonetheless certainly your prerogative.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Dorothy Mae

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Not knowing Greek and claiming that your belief is supported by the scriptures is sheer ignorance and folly; but nonetheless certainly your prerogative.
Actually I didn’t say that, you’re ignorant of my post.

But in any case, some very deep thinkers who understood the scriptures well didn’t know Greek. Those who know Greek don’t seem to understand them better, but more often then not look down on those who don’t know Greek. These are exactly the kind of people God hides understanding from, the proud.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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The Christian message works beautifully. Why do you think it doesn’t?
 
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fhansen

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Not necessarily. I have forgiving my exinlaws and i cant stand them.
Ok LOL. But love still compels the effort IMO-even for our enemies, even for those we can't stand. That's what makes it run so counter to our's and the world's natural inclinations, what makes it such a game changer in improving our world, healing, making peace, etc
 
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fhansen

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The Christian message works beautifully. Why do you think it doesn’t?
What makes you think I disagree-or said otherwise?
Ok, I re-read my post. Let me add to it:

The real point of the Christian message is that it doesn't really work, "it" being man obeying consistently out of fear or in an attempt to earn heaven, or in the attempt to make ourselves worthy in any case. Love is what makes a person just, and only God can produce that kind of love in us. So man's first necessity is in becoming reconciled with God, not in merely trying to obey His commandments. With this restored relationship of communion between man and God, God begins a work in man and man can begin to love as the just order of things demands for him, and as is necessary in order to have peace and fellowship with God, himself, and his neighbor.
 
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Oldmantook

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Deep thinkers? Just who are these "deep thinkers?" Don't you think God knew that the NT would be translated into the Greek? Don't you think a knowledge of the Greek is helpful so that we know what he commands and what he forbids? To ignore the command to forgive is to do so at your own peril - your choice.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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A good example of why it is important to know Greek is to study the word possession.

In English it means ownership.

In Greek it means to be inhabited by.

This is an important distinction. It is very important for a deliverance minister as well.

Also Heal, Healing, Healed has different meanings in the Greek.

Many times it indicates physical healing, spiritual healing and a combo.

This is very important for those in healing and deliverance.

Greek and Hebrew studies are invaluable!
 
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Gregory Thompson

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The commandments of Jesus surpass the scope of the commandments of Moses nailed to the cross. Judge for yourself where the greater reward lies and do so likewise.
 
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bling

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I must not be explaining very well.
In order to initially obtain Godly type Love you first have to humbly accept God's Love in the form of forgiveness (Luke 7).
We are talking only about unconditional undeserving and unrewarding type "forgiveness" (unrewarding in the fact you are not getting anything more from doing it and you are not doing it to get anything [you already have it]).
Without this Love there is not reason to unconditionally extend this forgiveness to a totally undeserving person.
The Love comes to you automatically with your humble acceptance of God's forgiveness, but you still have free will and like the servant who buried his master's bag of money away and did not use it to increase it, we can of our own free will bury God's gift of Love away and not use it to forgive others.
 
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bling

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Christ going to the cross was not "pleasant" for Him, but it showed us how bad our sins are and How great His Love is for us.
You always have free will and the perceived pleasures of sin for a season is a likely alternative.
Godly type Love is not a knee jerk reaction it is not logical and must be a free will choice on your part.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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But that’s not the Christian message. We don’t obey for any of those reasons as a follower of Christ.
Thats the Christian message.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Uh, it was written in Greek. Did this make the Greeks more insightful believers?

I know it’s a comforting thought to assume knowing ancient Greek means one understands the written Word of God, but Jesus says if you keep (do) his teaching then you will know the truth, not if you learn a certain language.

The Muslims think the original language necessary to understand their book. The Christians think knowing God is necessary and that happens for those who obey Him.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Knowing God Himself and having God explain His word is a lot more valuable. And besides, the command form exists in English. It’s not lost in translation.

Jesus says the Father would dwell in those who love Him and keep (do) his teaching, not those who thoroughly understand Greek grammar rules. If one knows he ought to do something, God looks at it he does it, not if he knows what the Greek word meant.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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It’s all ok except the logical bit. Gods type love is completely logical. It is thoroughly rational. One only needs the correct understanding to start with.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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It may be invaluable to have the Holy Spirit.

It is also valuable to know Greek.

With the knowledge at our fingertips why not learn Greek. It will not detract from learning but it will allow for deeper understanding.

It is extremely foolish to not add Greek to your toolbelt.

I provided two viable examples.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Well I’ve read a bit of what those who consider themselves knowledgeable in Greek and it doesn’t seem to improve their character or understanding of the text in comparison with those who lived it out in real choices. They can tell you, perhaps, better what the author meant or didn’t mean, but unless they actually DO what the words say, real insight, as evidenced in their explanation, is missing. I think God “hides from the wise and intelligent and reveals Himself to babes.”

There are whole translations where the Greek expert slanted his words according to his personal theology against the actual meaning showing character plays a larger role than knowledge.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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The bible also says:

Hosea 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
 
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Natsumi Lam

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How do you know it doesnt improve their understanding?

To understand something doesnt always correlate to change.

I provided two examples of how valuable the Greek is to healing and deliverance ministers.

English alone wont do in these scenarios unless the HS gives you the golden nugget. He also provides skilled people to write a Septuagent. Much like a doctor. You go to the doctor right?

Why not learn Greek? What will it make you lose?
 
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