Conditional salvation??

[BNR32FAN]

Chapter and verse please.

My bible says over and over in Romans that sins don't count any more. Either yoou believe and are saved or you don't believe and are lost.

John 15:1-10 was Jesus’ audience saved or lost?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Actually I did. Why would I waste the little free time I have learning another language? The three I know are enough. You haven’t been able to demonstrate it brings a thing and I have demonstrated learning Greek is worthless compared to knowing God.

So why do you go to a doctor?

Cause they hsve expertise in healing.

Why not use an interlinear or Septuagint?

That way you dont "waste" your time.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

John 15:1-10 was Jesus’ audience saved or lost?

You’re not going to make any headway with a person who assumes the wrong behavior (sin) they do to others doesn’t count. This is a fruit of OSAS and there is a deep emotional attachment to the license it gives. They will trample any pearls you share and attack you. Been there, done that. Not saying it’s not worthwhile, just letting you know the outcome.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So why do you go to a doctor?

Cause they hsve expertise in healing.

Why not use an interlinear or Septuagint?

That way you dont "waste" your time.

Show me a passage where these tools gave you better insight please. I’ve asked this before. Can you demonstrate superior understanding using this method?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Natsumi, it’s pretty interesting talking to you, btw. I’ve enjoyed it and value your posts and you. Thought you should know that. I don’t have to agree with someone to like them or think their words are valuable.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Show me a passage where these tools gave you better insight please. I’ve asked this before. Can you demonstrate superior understanding using this method?

My point was...what are you losing by using interinear and Septuagint? I am waiting for an answer first.

Why do you go to a doctor? Is it because he may have golden nuggets for healing?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Natsumi, it’s pretty interesting talking to you, btw. I’ve enjoyed it and value your posts and you. Thought you should know that. I don’t have to agree with someone to like them or think their words are valuable.

I completely agree.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I completely agree.

Can you please repeat the examples you gave. I’d like to see if Greek gives something experience doesn’t. I read you says you supplied two. Could you present them again please? I’d appreciate it, thanks.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Nat, what does the Greek saying about “falling away from the faith” in Matthew 24? What about John 17:3?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Can you please repeat the examples you gave. I’d like to see if Greek gives something experience doesn’t. I read you says you supplied two. Could you present them again please? I’d appreciate it, thanks.

I have had and experience in healing and deliverance and head knowledge too.

Ah i was saying a quick example

Possession in the English and Greek and they differentiate.

I also said heal, healed and healing can be physical, spiritual and both. According to the Greek in the gosples.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Show me a passage where these tools gave you better insight please. I’ve asked this before. Can you demonstrate superior understanding using this method?

For me learning some of the Greek definitions of the words made a huge difference in understanding the message the authors were trying to convey. Three prime examples that most Christians misunderstand because they don’t understand the Greek definitions are the words faith, believe, and believer. All three imply a level of devotion and fidelity not just an acknowledgement or trusting in God.

believe

G4100


G4100


Lemma:

πιστεύω


Transliteration:

pisteúō


Pronounce:

pist-yoo'-o


Part of Speech:

Verb


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed

1) to credit, have confidence b) in a moral or religious reference

1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul

2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing

faith

G4102


G4102


Lemma:

πίστις


Transliteration:

pístis


Pronounce:

pis'-tis


Part of Speech:

Noun Feminine


Language:

greek


Description:

1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God

1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ

1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on

believer

G4103


G4103


Lemma:

πιστός


Transliteration:

pistós


Pronounce:

pis-tos'


Part of Speech:

Adjective


Language:

greek


Description:

1) trusty, faithful a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust c) that can be relied on

2) easily persuaded a) believing, confiding, trusting b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises

1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead

2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation

These definitions reflect the understanding and teachings of the church since the very beginning of Christianity.

 

[Oldmantook]

Uh, it was written in Greek. Did this make the Greeks more insightful believers?

I know it’s a comforting thought to assume knowing ancient Greek means one understands the written Word of God, but Jesus says if you keep (do) his teaching then you will know the truth, not if you learn a certain language.

The Muslims think the original language necessary to understand their book. The Christians think knowing God is necessary and that happens for those who obey Him.

Believe what you wish - even if it contradicts Scripture.

 

[Oldmantook]

Chapter and verse please.

My bible says over and over in Romans that sins don't count any more. Either yoou believe and are saved or you don't believe and are lost.

Really? I guess you skipped over Roman 8:13?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My point was...what are you losing by using interinear and Septuagint? I am waiting for an answer first.

Why do you go to a doctor? Is it because he may have golden nuggets for healing?

The problem is this, a man of very bad character can go to med school and become an excellent doctor. But a man of very bad character cannot go to college, learn Greek superbly and be able to explain the God the authors of the Bible knew. Do you see what I mean? Greek doesn’t open the door to knowing God like studying medicine opens the door to understanding healing the human body.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Believe what you wish - even if it contradicts Scripture.

It doesn’t as you demonstrate by merely lobbing such posts instead of rational answers.

If my view contradicts scriptures you’d offer one.

 

[Oldmantook]

It doesn’t as you demonstrate by merely lobbing such posts instead of rational answers.

I rationally explained based on the scriptures that unforgiveness is a sin. Correct me if I'm wrong but you disagreed? If so, if you (or anyone else harbors unforgiveness) what happen then? Are you still saved?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

For me learning some of the Greek definitions of the words made a huge difference in understanding the message the authors were trying to convey. Three prime examples that most Christians misunderstand because they don’t understand the Greek definitions are the words faith, believe, and believer. All three imply a level of devotion and fidelity not just an acknowledgement or trusting in God.

believe

G4100


G4100


Lemma:

πιστεύω


Transliteration:

pisteúō


Pronounce:

pist-yoo'-o


Part of Speech:

Verb


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed

1) to credit, have confidence b) in a moral or religious reference

1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul

2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing

faith

G4102


G4102


Lemma:

πίστις


Transliteration:

pístis


Pronounce:

pis'-tis


Part of Speech:

Noun Feminine


Language:

greek


Description:

1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God

1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ

1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on

believer

G4103


G4103


Lemma:

πιστός


Transliteration:

pistós


Pronounce:

pis-tos'


Part of Speech:

Adjective


Language:

greek


Description:

1) trusty, faithful a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust c) that can be relied on

2) easily persuaded a) believing, confiding, trusting b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises

1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead

2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation

These definitions reflect the understanding and teachings of the church since the very beginning of Christianity.

Nice. Do modern OSAS believers adjust their understanding of belief and faith by you sharing that? I’m serious. I discussed this very thing with a poster here recently and they took refuge in Webster’s which merely means giving mental ascent.

I know what you write is true because that is what faith and believing is to me by walking with and obeying the living God. I agree with you, of course, and am blessed by your post, but got there myself through relationship with God himself.

I’d be surprised if modern cheap grace believers are willing to give up their idea of faith the dictionary supplies. It’s a lot cheaper than what the writers of the Bible meant.

Thanks for the post!!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I rationally explained based on the scriptures that unforgiveness is a sin.

No you didn’t. You said you assume it. Jesus didn’t say it was, just you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you disagreed? If so, if you (or anyone else harbors unforgiveness) what happen then? Are you still saved?

One is not forgiven if one refuses to forgive others. That is undeniable. What difference does it make what one calls that?

What will be Gods judgement on these? Probably depends on many factors. Judgement is individual. I don’t make blanket rules for how God judges. But what I can say is that He isn’t into nomenclature.

 

[Oldmantook]

No you didn’t. You said you assume it. Jesus didn’t say it was, just you.

One is not forgiven if one refuses to forgive others. That is undeniable. What difference does it make what one calls that?

What will be Gods judgement on these? Probably depends on many factors. Judgement is individual. I don’t make blanket rules for how God judges. But what I can say is that He isn’t into nomenclature.

So...just to clarify, do you believe harboring unforgiveness is not a sin?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I have had and experience in healing and deliverance and head knowledge too.

Ah i was saying a quick example

Possession in the English and Greek and they differentiate.

I also said heal, healed and healing can be physical, spiritual and both. According to the Greek in the gosples.

English bible says so too...healing the broken hearted is not physical. And that was from the Hebrew, btw.

Don’t mistake me. I see your Greek study has aided you and helped you avoid the cheat grace and experience seeking christians so common today. It’s just not the only way to do so.