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Col 2:16 is about not judging others

FredVB

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Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


What changes?

Amen!
There were many concessions. Clearly afterward there was polygamy, slavery, and divorce, not from the beginning, and in the fallen world God permitted it within parameters to limit it, and not have any of those go on longer. The design from the start was right for us, there will be restoration for it which can include the repentant believers, who are in Christ. We were to have a garden for where we would have food. This which was available before the fall is a model to us since, which we need again. After the fall we were to grow everything from the earth, now with curse to it, with sins that increase the curse, growing all for what we use with our sweat, with pain, and growing old and dying. Our civilization was not from God's will, and though it goes contrary to God's will, God made use of it with the gospel of Christ being spread. We still have warning, Mystery Babylon where we don't belong will collapse and fall. The food was all from green plants, God gave permission in later times under pretty bad conditions, when God said it was seen hearts of men are turned toward evil from their youth, to taking animals and using them to get food, but also with parameters limiting it and harm from it, and it was not said for continuing it, and it can't be continued, but almost no one observes the parameters, and having products from animals is not even better for us, but serious issues to health and well-being come from continually having those, and the world is worsened from it, which God hates, as is shown in passages. There are other changes from the perfect meant for us to look for, that we can keep looking for, in coming to godliness we are to have.
 
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Studyman

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There were many concessions. Clearly afterward there was polygamy, slavery, and divorce, not from the beginning, and in the fallen world God permitted it within parameters to limit it, and not have any of those go on longer. The design from the start was right for us, there will be restoration for it which can include the repentant believers, who are in Christ. We were to have a garden for where we would have food. This which was available before the fall is a model to us since, which we need again. After the fall we were to grow everything from the earth, now with curse to it, with sins that increase the curse, growing all for what we use with our sweat, with pain, and growing old and dying. Our civilization was not from God's will, and though it goes contrary to God's will, God made use of it with the gospel of Christ being spread. We still have warning, Mystery Babylon where we don't belong will collapse and fall. The food was all from green plants, God gave permission in later times under pretty bad conditions, when God said it was seen hearts of men are turned toward evil from their youth, to taking animals and using them to get food, but also with parameters limiting it and harm from it, and it was not said for continuing it, and it can't be continued, but almost no one observes the parameters, and having products from animals is not even better for us, but serious issues to health and well-being come from continually having those, and the world is worsened from it, which God hates, as is shown in passages. There are other changes from the perfect meant for us to look for, that we can keep looking for, in coming to godliness we are to have.

Amen,

But i would add something, based on my exercise of use. It is written in Rom. 1: 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

What I have found, in turning away from this world's religious doctrines and traditions, many of which caused me to transgress God's Commandments, is that when I consider my Father's instruction concerning what is food, and what is not, I retain God in my mind much more than when I rejected God's instruction regarding what is food and what is not. When I eat, when I shop for food, when I think about food, when I go to restaurants for dinner. Especially when I am out in the world and need HIS influence even more, being surrounded with lawlessness and disrespect for God.

I have come to understand exactly why God created His Judgments for men. Not just for physical health, but in my view more importantly, Spiritual Health. After almost 30 years I can't imagine how a man can survive in this world Spiritually, without all the Help God has created for me. His Sabbaths, His Holy Days, HIS Judgments and Commandments. Yes, HE placed me in a world in which the serpent is the prince. Clever and subtle, using some of God's Word to deceive. I love the way you acknowledged that. But with the Whole Armor of God, and His help in times of need, I will endure to the end.

Great post.
 
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FredVB

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Amen,

But i would add something, based on my exercise of use. It is written in Rom. 1: 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

What I have found, in turning away from this world's religious doctrines and traditions, many of which caused me to transgress God's Commandments, is that when I consider my Father's instruction concerning what is food, and what is not, I retain God in my mind much more than when I rejected God's instruction regarding what is food and what is not. When I eat, when I shop for food, when I think about food, when I go to restaurants for dinner. Especially when I am out in the world and need HIS influence even more, being surrounded with lawlessness and disrespect for God.

I have come to understand exactly why God created His Judgments for men. Not just for physical health, but in my view more importantly, Spiritual Health. After almost 30 years I can't imagine how a man can survive in this world Spiritually, without all the Help God has created for me. His Sabbaths, His Holy Days, HIS Judgments and Commandments. Yes, HE placed me in a world in which the serpent is the prince. Clever and subtle, using some of God's Word to deceive. I love the way you acknowledged that. But with the Whole Armor of God, and His help in times of need, I will endure to the end.

Great post.

Thank you. What was said about Sabbath rest had it required that we leave others to rest then from the earliest revelation, this is the highest will of God then, not that anything dismisses us from that shown in scriptures. While in the new testament the change is to leave it to others' own conscience, without judging others, as Christ still said, the Sabbath is meant for man. It is part of the design for us along with everything modeled in the Garden shown meant for us before the fall in the revealed account, in the beginning.
 
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Studyman

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Thank you. What was said about Sabbath rest had it required that we leave others to rest then from the earliest revelation, this is the highest will of God then, not that anything dismisses us from that shown in scriptures. While in the new testament the change is to leave it to others' own conscience, without judging others, as Christ still said, the Sabbath is meant for man. It is part of the design for us along with everything modeled in the Garden shown meant for us before the fall in the revealed account, in the beginning.

Interesting, thanks for the perspective. I would say that all respect, honor and obedience to God has always been from the heart and soul to mean anything or benefit a man in any way. From Circumcision to Loving God, to Hallowing God's Sabbaths. For them to be Profitable, as Paul teaches, it must be from the heart. I believe the Scriptures have always promoted this, and Faithful men like Zacharias, Joshua Daniel, Simeon, Anna, etc., always knew this. It was always a problem to serve God with lips only, and not the heart.

Is. 29: 13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Duet. 10: 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

So yes, the mainstream preachers of the land in that time, the Pharisees and Scribes, didn't teach these OT Biblical Truths, so Jesus and Paul reminded us of what the God Inspired Holy Scriptures truly taught. I don't believe it was a "change" in teaching at all, rather, a Change in the Priesthood.
 
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Bob S

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In Rev 12 we see the work of the "Accuser of the brethren".
In Matt 7 (pre-cross -- and law in full effect) Christ condemns judging others.

In Col 2:16 we have this -
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

An example of NOT condemning eating OR drinking or remembering God's Ten-Commandment creation-Sabbath day to keep it holy. Rather Col 2 condemns the "commandments of men" - (as is so carefully avoided in the quotes we often see from Col 2)

Col 2 is 0pposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command. - so it is opposed to 'making stuff up' - via "man-made tradition"

As is Christ against it --
Inspecting the fruit of others is not judging. Biblical judging is when one person tells another they cannot have eternal life because of the way they are living. (condemning another to hell). Only Jesus knows our hearts and what one might deem as being something against God's commands, to another the Holy Spirit hasn't convicted such.

Bob Ryan, this thread is meant to expose others of judging those who keep the Sabbath and refrain from eating certain food. As I see it just the opposite has happened. The church which you so revere is the real guilty party in this scenario and the proof of guilt is in the writings of your revered prophet. Yes, the one you defend at all cost and believe with all your heart was the worst offender and that offence lives on in her writings that your church continues to reprint and sell all over the World. You cannot deny her accusations in the following excerpt from one of those writings that you uphold as being equal to scripture. There is no such condemnation in all of the New Testament. Gentiles have never been under the rules of Sabbath keeping and tithing laws and yet Ellen's writings supersede scripture.

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath,
they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message,
if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

God's reserved resources are to be used in no such haphazard way.
The tithe is the Lord's, and those who meddle with it will be punished with the loss of their heavenly treasure unless they repent. Let the work no longer be hedged up because the tithe has been diverted into various channels other than the one to which the Lord has said it should go. Provision is to be made for these other lines of work. They are to be sustained, but not from the tithe. God has not changed; the tithe is still to be used for the support of the ministry. The opening of new fields requires more ministerial efficiency than we now have, and there must be means in the treasury. {9T 249.4}

I submit to all that only the Israelites that raised crops and animals came under the tithing laws. Ellen superseded God's rules and made all people responsible to pay tithe. Your church is still guilty of the offence.

Bob, you use the following as examples of us judging you. I submit to you that not one of responses come close to Biblical judging. Each one is pointing out the things you accuse us of doing you yourself are not lily white.


Who but the pro law people are doing this very thing? Has anyone condemned you for trying to keep or as you will claim keeping the Sabbath?

You can't be serious.

Perhaps a short "summary" to refresh short term memory.
=============================================
=============================================

Comments on this same thread...

You don't obey the Sabbath, .

Do you say that as the "Accuser of the brethren" in Rev 12 - or do you have some "other source"??


Perhaps most, at least some, of us give lip service to that idea. However, is there a particular reason you don't keep all of God's commandments?

bbbbbbb said:
It seems to me that you and your SDA brethren are very busy transgressing the Law day in and day out, unless you have utterly deceived yourselves into believing that the LAW consists of only ten select commandments. Even then, you transgress the fourth commandment egregiously.
Each one of those statements are facts and not one of them condemned you to hell. Are you able to say the same of your revered prophet? You are her defender as seen on another forum, so let's hear from you.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Well let’s put back the context….

Here the discourse was broken in upon by questions from one who had kept the Sabbath a short time, but who had recently given it up. Rising in the congregation, he said, “This Sabbath question has been a great trouble to me during the last year, and now I would like to ask a question: Is the observance of the Sabbath necessary to my salvation? Answer, yes or no.” I answered promptly, This is an important question, and demands something more full than yes or no. All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light. But none will be held accountable for light which they have never received. I then quoted the words of Christ, “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin; but now they have no cloak for their sin.” It was with the greatest difficulty, however, that I made these remarks; for the questioner kept jumping to his feet, and interrupting me, and in the most excited manner and with the most violent gestures demanding that the answer be yes or no. . HS 234.3

What does scripture say?

Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

What is sin?

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Quoting directly from the 10C which the Sabbath is part of.

What is Truth?

Psalms 119:151 You are near, O Lord,
And all Your commandments are truth.
 
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Leaf473

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Well let’s put back the context….

Here the discourse was broken in upon by questions from one who had kept the Sabbath a short time, but who had recently given it up. Rising in the congregation, he said, “This Sabbath question has been a great trouble to me during the last year, and now I would like to ask a question: Is the observance of the Sabbath necessary to my salvation? Answer, yes or no.” I answered promptly, This is an important question, and demands something more full than yes or no. All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light. But none will be held accountable for light which they have never received. I then quoted the words of Christ, “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin; but now they have no cloak for their sin.” It was with the greatest difficulty, however, that I made these remarks; for the questioner kept jumping to his feet, and interrupting me, and in the most excited manner and with the most violent gestures demanding that the answer be yes or no. . HS 234.3

What does scripture say?

Hebrews 10: 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

What is sin?

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” Quoting directly from the 10C which the Sabbath is part of.

What is Truth?

Psalms 119:151 You are near, O Lord,
And all Your commandments are truth.
What is "light upon the Sabbath" and who wouldn't have it?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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What is "light upon the Sabbath" and who wouldn't have it?
Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 
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Bob S

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Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
The ten commandments were part of the mosaic covenant given at Sinai to one nation, Israel. That covenant ended at Calvary where Jesus Himself ratified the new covenant with His own blood. Paul also wrote that the ten commandments were temporary in 2Cor3:6-11. He called the ten "the ministry of death". He did so because all the ten could do is condemn. They had absolutely no saving power. Christians are not under the dictates of the ceremonial laws like the festivals and the weekly Sabbath. Since we are not under them how could not keeping them be sin? How could it have been a sin to the rest of the World's population when God didn't give it to them? SB, you may not have been made knowledgeable of that fact, but now you have been enlightened. So, stop spreading made-up theories.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The ten commandments were part of the mosaic covenant given at Sinai to one nation, Israel. That covenant ended at Calvary where Jesus Himself ratified the new covenant with His own blood. Paul also wrote that the ten commandments were temporary in 2Cor3:6-11. He called the ten "the ministry of death". He did so because all the ten could do is condemn. They had absolutely no saving power. Christians are not under the dictates of the ceremonial laws like the festivals and the weekly Sabbath. Since we are not under them how could not keeping them be sin? How could it have been a sin to the rest of the World's population when God didn't give it to them? SB, you may not have been made knowledgeable of that fact, but now you have been enlightened. So, stop spreading made-up theories.
The wages of sin is death (breaking the law), the commandments of God are holy, righteous and good Romans 7:12 Psalms 119:172 and perfect for converting the soul Psalms 19:7 there is no scripture that says we can break any of the commandments of God. God said Remember the Sabbath day, man says forget it, I am going to believe God.
 
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Leaf473

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Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Okay... I take that to mean that only those who have read that passage have light upon the Sabbath. The Sabbath then isn't part of the law written on people's hearts, people who don't have the law of Moses.

Romans 2:15
They show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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God wrote all of His Laws in the hearts and minds of His people, Hebrews 8:10 Hebrews 8:10 Psalms 40:8 and He certainly did not forget the one commandment that He said Remember, which is why Jesus and the apostles all kept and advocate we should keep the commandments of God. Luke 4:16, Acts 18:2 John 15:10 Matthew 15:3-9 1 Cor 7:19 James 2:10-12 Revelation 14:12 Revelation 22:14 to name just a few.

God gives us free will and we can choose to accept His laws written in our hearts and minds or we can change our mind and do our own thing instead. We are only sanctified by the Truth of His Word John 17:17 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151
 
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trophy33

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God said Remember the Sabbath day, man says forget it, I am going to believe God.
Actually, both were written by men.

Some man wrote the book of Exodus that gave the commandment to Jews, some men wrote the NT books that say people are not under those commandments anymore.

There is no reason to choose only the first instructions to be of God.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Actually, both were written by men.

Some man wrote the book of Exodus that gave the commandment to Jews, some men wrote the NT books that say people are not under those commandments anymore.

There is no reason to choose only the first instructions to be of God.
Well for me I am going to believe scripture.

God wrote and God spoke the Ten Commandments not man. Exodus 20 Deut 4:13

God did not leave it up to man to write His eternal commandments.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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@SabbathBlessings You are still repeating the same error again and again. You ignore that Exodus was not written about us. "You" there means ancient Israel.
We have free will to believe what we want. But it’s a mistake to think we do not need to keep Gods commandments.
 
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Leaf473

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God wrote all of His Laws in the hearts and minds of His people,
God's people have light upon the Sabbath, those who are not God's people don't, sounds like :heart:
Hebrews 8:10 Hebrews 8:10 Psalms 40:8 and He certainly did not forget the one commandment that He said Remember, which is why Jesus and the apostles all kept and advocate we should keep the commandments of God. Luke 4:16, Acts 18:2 John 15:10 Matthew 15:3-9 1 Cor 7:19 James 2:10-12 Revelation 14:12 Revelation 22:14 to name just a few.

God gives us free will and we can choose to accept His laws written in our hearts and minds or we can change our mind and do our own thing instead. We are only sanctified by the Truth of His Word John 17:17 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151
 
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trophy33

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Well for me I am going to believe scripture.

God wrote and God spoke the Ten Commandments not man. Exodus 20 Deut 4:13

God did not leave it up to man to write His eternal commandments.
Both Exodus and Deuteronomium are books written by people, not by God.
 
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trophy33

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We have free will to believe what we want. But it’s a mistake to think we do not need to keep Gods commandments.
God has never commanded keeping of the Old Testament to us, who live today.

Your repeated mistake is that you read the text of the Old Testament as if you were an ancient Jew living before Christ. Saying that the Mosaic commandments are said to us is the same like saying that "build an ark for animals" is said to us.
 
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