church attendance does NOT lead to salvation

[OrthodoxyUSA]

"In essentials unity"

This one ^ is harder to maintain than expected.

Forgive me...

 

[Vicomte13]

In fact, looking at the entire Christian world, one is hard-pressed to find any single doctrinal idea that everybody agrees upon. There is no visible, corporate or doctrinal unity to be found in Christianity today. Sad, really.

Here's a list of things on which all Christians agree, I think.
(1)There's a God of some sort.
(2) Jesus lived in First Century Roman Galilee and Judea and was crucified in Jerusalem.
(3) His mom's name was Mary.
(4)Everybody else has it wrong.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Here's a list of things on which all Christians agree, I think.
(1)There's a God of some sort.
(2) Jesus lived in First Century Roman Galilee and Judea and was crucified in Jerusalem.
(3) His mom's name was Mary.
(4)Everybody else has it wrong.

I'm not too sure about those first three.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Here's a list of things on which all Christians agree, I think.
(1)There's a God of some sort.
(2) Jesus lived in First Century Roman Galilee and Judea and was crucified in Jerusalem.
(3) His mom's name was Mary.
(4)Everybody else has it wrong.

LOL!!!!

DOGMA ~ A principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
"the Christian dogma of the Trinity"

If it can't meet up to the basics of DOGMA then it's not really a Christian Church, just one that calls itself Christian.

Dogma - OrthodoxWiki
"Dogma (plural either dogmata or dogmas; Greek δόγμα, plural δόγματα) is the established belief or doctrine which is authoritative and is not to be disputed or doubted.

The word "dogma" was used by the ancient classical writers as an opinion or as a truth to a person as in philosophical doctrines, particularly those philosophical doctrines of particular schools of philosophers. The word was used as well to signify a public decree or ordinance. It is used in the Holy Scripture, in the sense of a decree or civil edict as in Luke 2:1: "And it came to pass, that in those days that there went out a decree (dogma) from Caesar Augustus"; in the sense of an ordinance of the Mosaic Law as in Eph. 2:15: "Having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances (dogmasin)"; and as applied to the ordinances or decrees of the first Apostolic Council in Jerusalem: "And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees (dogmata) for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem" (Acts 16:4).

Among the early Church Fathers the word "dogma" was used most often for the doctrines and moral precepts taught by Christ and the holy Apostles with a distinction made for dogmas as having been taught by Christ, by the Apostles, and having come from the Church.

But according to long-standing usage, a dogma is now understood to be a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful. It might be described briefly as a revealed truth defined by the Church—but private revelations do not constitute dogmas, and some theologians confine the word defined to doctrines solemnly defined by general councils, while a revealed truth becomes a dogma when proposed by the Church through her teaching office. A dogma therefore implies a twofold relation: to Divine revelation and to the authoritative teaching of the Church.

For Orthodox Christians, the dogmata are contained in the Nicene Creed and the canons of the seven ecumenical councils. These tenets are summarized by St. John of Damascus in his Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, which is the third book of his main work, titled The Fount of Knowledge. In this book he takes a dual approach in explaining each article of the Orthodox faith: one for Christians, where he uses quotations from Scripture and, occasionally, from works of other Fathers of the Church, and the second, directed both at non-Christians (but who, nevertheless, hold some sort of religious belief) and at atheists, where he quite skillfully employs Aristotelian logic and dialectics, especially reductio ad absurdum."

Forgive me...

 

[Tayla]

Nobody seems too sure about what the non-essentials are.

Good point. Need to look to the early church for this info. The Nicene Creed and Trinity are about as essential as it gets.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Good point. Need to look to the early church for this info. The Nicene Creed and Trinity are about as essential as it gets.

"Act 16:4
And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem."

Wouldn't it be neat if we could find a copy of these decrees that were distributed!

Forgive me...

 

[Vicomte13]

Good point. Need to look to the early church for this info. The Nicene Creed and Trinity are about as essential as it gets.

Not so! There are millions of non-Trinitarian Christians: Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Unitarians are not Trinitarians. Some non-Trinitarian Christians explicitly call the Nicene Creed heresy.

So no, the Trinity and the Nicene creed are not universals of Christianity.

I really think my list is exhaustive. These really are the only four things on which all Christians of whatever sort agree:

(1) There's a God of some sort.
(2) Jesus lived in First Century Roman Galilee and Judea and was crucified in Jerusalem.
(3) His mom's name was Mary.
(4) Everybody else has it wrong.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Not so! There are millions of non-Trinitarian Christians: Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Unitarians are not Trinitarians. Some non-Trinitarian Christians explicitly call the Nicene Creed heresy.

So no, the Trinity and the Nicene creed are not universals of Christianity.

I really think my list is exhaustive. These really are the only four things on which all Christians of whatever sort agree:

(1) There's a God of some sort.
(2) Jesus lived in First Century Roman Galilee and Judea and was crucified in Jerusalem.
(3) His mom's name was Mary.
(4) Everybody else has it wrong.

Non-Trinitarian would definitely be a point of large contention. The catholic Church (all of them / any of them) find it unacceptable.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Defining who is going to hell is also not a catholic teaching. It was never meant to be looked at that way, it is not in the Liturgy (works) of The Church anywhere.

Forgive me...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Wouldn't it be neat if we could find a copy of these decrees that were distributed!

Too much.
Is anyone simply following Jesus and doing as those in union with Him in the first assembly in ACTS did ?
What is already available is way beyond what most anyone anywhere is doing so far, except for a few. . . even the very first requirement/ step in faith/ giving up everything (the way the disciples did in ACTS)

 

[Vicomte13]

Non-Trinitarian would definitely be a point of large contention. The catholic Church (all of them / any of them) find it unacceptable.

Forgive me...

Of course!
But there are millions of non-Trinitarian Christians, so if we're going to find a list of things that ALL Christians hold, I think they really are just that God exists, that Jesus preached in Palestine and was crucified in Jerusalem, and that Mary was his mother. Beyond that, I can't think of anything on which at least some significant group of Christians don't disagree.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Of course!
But there are millions of non-Trinitarian Christians, so if we're going to find a list of things that ALL Christians hold, I think they really are just that God exists, that Jesus preached in Palestine and was crucified in Jerusalem, and that Mary was his mother. Beyond that, I can't think of anything on which at least some significant group of Christians don't disagree.

That's just my point. They are NOT Christians. AT ALL

FAKES

Forgive me...

 

[chevyontheriver]

Well, gosh. Obviously the Holy Catholic Church is the One True Church, the lighthouse in a troubled world. And clearly the other denominations are closer or farther from the brightness of the light, with the Eastern Orthodox the closest, the Oriental Orthodox just past them and the denominations past them further and further out in the shadows. Everybody sees that.

Wait. Everybody CATHOLIC sees that. You Orthodox would flip that around a bit, and it'd be obvious to you. Folks on the outer fringe look at you as hopeless traditionalists, while we Catholics are full-on Devil's-anus-kissing thralls of the harlot of Babylon.

There's a bit of disagreement on these things.

Who wants some pie? I like pie.

Time for pie. Or ice cream. Or pie with ice cream.

 

[Vicomte13]

Time for pie. Or ice cream. Or pie with ice cream.

And cheese!
Apple pie with vanilla ice cream and cheese.
Because apple pie without the cheese is like the kiss without the squeeze.

 

[chevyontheriver]

And cheese!
Apple pie with vanilla ice cream and cheese.
Because apple pie without the cheese is like the kiss without the squeeze.

Yup. And I think this discussion is about played out.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Forgive me...

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Forgive me...

 

[SolomonVII]

Jesus followers were NEVER meant to be "armchair Christians" - bashing fellow Christians and fighting over insignificant doctrinal issues.....In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty!!!

I think that Church attendance may lead to salvation, if not yourself, then of others.

People are social animals, and like to have their decisions confirmed by seeing others making the same decisions in life. Attending church, and filling the church with the presence of the community, provides that kind of environment.
Armchair Sundays are more about sitting around the TV and watching millionaires disrespect the flag.
Pew Christians show each other than there are better things to do with their time, and better things to believe in.
Until we speak, people don't realize how dumb we are. But by attending church, you don't even have to speak to evangelize. Just by being there, you are showing everybody how important Jesus is for you, and that will make them feel confirmed in their own belief in Jesus.

 

[redleghunter]

Forgive me...

You are forgiven. Go in peace.

 

[So Cliche]

I had a sibling pair believe I wasn't a Christian because i wasn't attending a church at the time. Their parents were pastors (It's my best friend's husband and his sister I'm referring to). They were raised to believe heavily in church. The husband has now become an atheist but his father (the pastor) still doesn't know that.

How does an adult man who was previously a believer decide to become an atheist?