church attendance does NOT lead to salvation

[S.O.J.I.A.]

great, another "i don't want to go to church and the bible doesn't say I have to" thread.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Thank you for your response to my question. It looks like there is considerable pain you deal with on this subject. I'm sorry for that.

I believe with all my heart that the church is the bride of Christ.

It is. Knowing that is huge.

I believe that they are chosen of God.

Well, it is cumulatively the people of God, but not every individual you encounter there will be God's approved spokesperson.

But I personally cannot attend a fellowship.

I get it that churches can be socially uncomfortable. I don't think you are the only one to feel that way. And yet I'm going to try to emphasize something of the purpose I see in going to church. It's to worship God. Not to make friends, not to socialize, not to hear some nice songs, not to hear a nice sermon, not to learn something new about the Bible, none of that. It's just to worship God, adore God, tune in to God, receive God, commune with God. The other people there should be there for the same reason. So it shouldn't matter about witty conversation, or favorites, or about who the greatest sinner is, or who is important or most expensively dressed.

Now I haven't been following Jesus Christ. So anybody who accuses me of not following Jesus Christ would actually be telling the truth. I am admitting that. But my goal is to become a follower of Jesus Christ. I have surrendered my life to Jesus Christ 5 or 6 years ago. But I have not been able to overcome some sin in my life. But now I have decided to really work on overcoming my sin.

I'm glad you are working on overcoming that sin. It is often hard to do, with setbacks along the way. But do keep making steps in that direction even if it is three steps forward and two steps back. God wants you to overcome, and with His help you can eventually do it.

Do I want to go to church? Of course I do, but I have just been very hurt.

Again, I'm sorry. Do remember though that the thing we call the Bride of Christ is also a field hospital for wounded sinners. You do have a right to be cared for there. And the other people there, even the ones who look so together, are also wounded sinners. They may not yet be able to treat you right considering their own woundedness.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

great, another "i don't want to go to church and the bible doesn't say I have to" thread.

Welllllll.........

some people don't have to "go to " ekklesia (church),
they are already, together with others, wherever they are, always EKKLESIA ..... (the original, not a building)

Decades ago we learned to reply , we don't "go to " 'church' , "WE ARE" 'church' , even before we knew what "EKKLESIA" is !

 

[Monk Brendan]

Jesus followers were NEVER meant to be "armchair Christians" - bashing fellow Christians and fighting over insignificant doctrinal issues.....In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty!!!

AMEN! No argument from me on this one at all.

 

[Monk Brendan]

In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty!!!

However, it is difficult, sometimes, to find what IS essential. Calvinists (for instance) will have a difference of opinion as to what is essential than Roman Catholics (for example.)

Believe me, I am not trying to start a fight. Far from it. The idea of what is essential to Christianity and what is not varies.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Well, when I make a judgement, I try not to speak as though God is speaking through me. Because my judgements are just personal

Forgive me, but who told you you are to make ANY judgements at all?

I'm not saying you have to buy licorice when you don't like it, but why are you judging your (or anyone else's) church?

 

[W2L]

Forgive me, but who told you you are to make ANY judgements at all?

I'm not saying you have to buy licorice when you don't like it, but why are you judging your (or anyone else's) church?

1 corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

It's so sad to hear all of you talking this way. I don't feel that way about my Church at all.

Forgive me...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It's so sad to hear all of you talking this way. I don't feel that way about my Church at all.

Forgive me...

It is better they tell the truth, and keep seeking the truth, than cover up the truth.

Like one person in particular asked again and again in a 2 month period of time: why do I only meet bad, harmful people through the years, why doesn't God protect me or bring me kind, helpful people ?
This includes individuals, couples and churches they had been physically hurt in over the years, and physically neglected and abandoned from 5 years old through 60 years old....

So people might continually run into , or only find, for lack of ( ??) ,
one after another after another 'bad' communities/ assemblies/ persons ....
and
when that happens, if YHWH grants them until today a means of escape,
then that is what they should report: the TRUTH, and nothing but the TRUTH.

When and if someone finds good, true, kind, helpful souls,
then that is what they should report: the TRUTH, and nothing but the TRUTH.

 

[W2L]

It's so sad to hear all of you talking this way. I don't feel that way about my Church at all.

Forgive me...

Perhaps others have had bad experiences with members of your church.

 

[Introverted1293]

Forgive me, but who told you you are to make ANY judgements at all?

I'm not saying you have to buy licorice when you don't like it, but why are you judging your (or anyone else's) church?

I really don't mean to be self-righteous. But what I make a judgement it's about how a church or a fellowship makes me feel.

I also

Forgive me, but who told you you are to make ANY judgements at all?

I'm not saying you have to buy licorice when you don't like it, but why are you judging your (or anyone else's) church?

Do you remember when you were in high school, and you see a a group of girls? Say that they're part of the cheerleading squad. And they're just gorgeous and hot. They're popular. And they date the hottest and the most popular guys in school.

You basically just stay away, not because you think you are better than them, but because you think that they may be better than you. Every time you're around them, because of coincidence, you think to yourself that these girls will never give you the time of day. So you don't talk to them. That's kind of a judgement. Judgements are not all about "I'm better than you," or "I'm more righteous than you."

It is very hard, or I should say kind of impossible to not go through this life without making some kind of judgment about people. As long as we are not condemning them.

 

[W2L]

It is very hard, or I should say kind of impossible to not go through this life without making some kind of judgment about people. As long as we are not condemning them.

Yes we are suppose to judge things in this world as it pertains to our spiritualism.

 

[Introverted1293]

Yes we are suppose to judge things in this world as it pertains to our spiritualism.

That is true.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Monk Brendan said: ↑
Forgive me, but who told you you are to make ANY judgements at all?

I'm not saying you have to buy licorice when you don't like it, but why are you judging your (or anyone else's) church?

Monk Brendan said: ↑
Forgive me, but who told you you are to make ANY judgements at all?

I'm not saying you have to buy licorice when you don't like it, but why are you judging your (or anyone else's) church?

Introverted1293 said: ↑
It is very hard, or I should say kind of impossible to not go through this life without making some kind of judgment about people. As long as we are not condemning them.

If it is a believer, we can refuse to associate with them if they act like the heathens do or not sit next them in church. At least that is what I gather from these verses:

1 Corin 5:9-13
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people.
I was not including the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters.
In that case you would have to leave this world.
But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler.
With such a man do not even eat.

What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”b

Matt 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Jerem 10:2
Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

 

[Introverted1293]

Thank you for your response to my question. It looks like there is considerable pain you deal with on this subject. I'm sorry for that.
It is. Knowing that is huge.

Well, it is cumulatively the people of God, but not every individual you encounter there will be God's approved spokesperson.

I get it that churches can be socially uncomfortable. I don't think you are the only one to feel that way. And yet I'm going to try to emphasize something of the purpose I see in going to church. It's to worship God. Not to make friends, not to socialize, not to hear some nice songs, not to hear a nice sermon, not to learn something new about the Bible, none of that. It's just to worship God, adore God, tune in to God, receive God, commune with God. The other people there should be there for the same reason. So it shouldn't matter about witty conversation, or favorites, or about who the greatest sinner is, or who is important or most expensively dressed.

I'm glad you are working on overcoming that sin. It is often hard to do, with setbacks along the way. But do keep making steps in that direction even if it is three steps forward and two steps back. God wants you to overcome, and with His help you can eventually do it.

Again, I'm sorry. Do remember though that the thing we call the Bride of Christ is also a field hospital for wounded sinners. You do have a right to be cared for there. And the other people there, even the ones who look so together, are also wounded sinners. They may not yet be able to treat you right considering their own woundedness.

Thank you very much. That is something I should think about.

 

[redleghunter]

Jesus followers were NEVER meant to be "armchair Christians" - bashing fellow Christians and fighting over insignificant doctrinal issues.....In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty!!!

View attachment 209595

For some this means not going at all. Which has its own problems.

 

[Gottservant]

He who endures to the end, shall be saved (even for or from church services)

 

[Emmy]

Dear Hear the Word. Church attendance alone does not save us, Jesus told us what God wants from us. The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it; love thy neighbour as thyself." God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. The Bible tells us: We must give up our selfish wishes and wants, we have to love God with all our beings, and we have to love our neighbour as we love ourselves: treat all we meet and all we know, treat them as we would love to be treated. Love is VERY catching, and Love will always be the victor.
In verse 40 we are told: Love will always be the victor, and Love is VERY catching.
In Matthew 7; 7-10: we are told: Ask and you shall receive. We ask for Love and Compassion, then we thank God and share all love and compassion with our neighbour. God sees our loving and caring, and God will bless us greatly. Ask and we shall receive, then we thank God and be the loving and obedient men and women which God wants. Try it Hear the Word. Our lives will be always with love and compassion, and joy and peace. I say this with love and send greetings. From Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[devin553344]

Jesus followers were NEVER meant to be "armchair Christians" - bashing fellow Christians and fighting over insignificant doctrinal issues.....In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty!!!

View attachment 209595

I disagree, I think church attendance is important for salvation, the holy ghost manifests when we come together as people and worship God.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Perhaps others have had bad experiences with members of your church.

I'm just saying that the feelings being expressed are not universal. Which is a good isn't it? Not everyone is having a bad experience. Not everyone feels cynical.

I have always felt I was at home, or had come home. Like your family meeting you at the door when you come in from work. I find myself singing.

Forgive me...