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Featured church attendance does NOT lead to salvation

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hear the Word of the LORD, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    My bible can be the NT, psalms, and proverbs. My bible is smallest, do i win?
     
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  2. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I didn't say anything about winning. I'm asking how do we determine which traditions to get rid of, you've given the criteria of "traditions that divide"--and that can be just about anything.

    I'm merely trying to get you to think through these things more.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  3. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I see, thank you. :) I am thinking it through and i come to the same conclusion, which is that tradition is to blame for division.
     
  4. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    I think that I have never heard someone suggest that we need to attend church attendance in order to become saved. The one and only way that there has ever been to become saved is by grace through faith, but every example of saving faith in Hebrews 11 is also an example of someone living in obedience to God's will, so the same faith that saves us also requires our obedience. We don't go to church in order to be loved, but to love others and to spur one another on to good works. Much of the instructions in the NT are in regard to how to live as a community of believers, so Christianity is intended to be practiced as a part of a community of believers, and our spiritual gifts are not given to us for our own benefit, but for the benefit of others, so someone who does not regularly attend church will have their spiritual growth stunted. If someone doesn't like to worship as part of a community and doesn't practice loving their brothers and sisters in Christ, then how are they ever going to learn to love their enemies?
     
  5. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    If all tradition is to blame for division, then there's nothing that a Christian can believe. Because every aspect of Christianity is tradition--out belief in one God, our belief that Jesus is God's Son and the Christ and our Lord, our belief that He was born of a virgin, that He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried, that He rose from the dead. All of it is "tradition" because all of it is teaching delivered from one generation to the next.

    If we should get rid of tradition because it's to blame for division, then that means everything.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  6. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    There is no hope then. BTW, i didnt say all tradition, just the stuff that causes division
     
  7. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Sure there is--we don't dismiss everything simple because Christians have theological disagreements. Instead we study, learn, educate ourselves about theology and history, we try our best to make sure that our position is defensible. We challenge ourselves and our ideas, we see if our ideas stand up under scrutiny.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  8. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    We're probably getting off topic.
     
  9. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 Jesus Christ is King Supporter

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    Thank you

    I do not attend church. Although, I do know that I need to turn away from my sin. I do have some besetting sin that I struggle with. But I don't ever want to attend church. I just can't.
     
  10. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If I were to ask you to distinguish between 'a Church' and 'The Church' would it make a difference in the OP?

    church attendance (at x) does NOT lead to salvation

    I have a hard time believing that a Christian would say that about "The Church".

    For those no longer attending to a congregation. What was your reason for leaving?

    Forgive me...
     
  11. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We must learn what is "Holy Tradition" in order to be able to distinguish it from the rest. If a Church has faults, it's not in her Holy Traditions.

    Holy Tradition - OrthodoxWiki
    Holy Tradition is the deposit of faith given by Jesus Christ to the Apostles and passed on in the Church from one generation to the next without addition, alteration or subtraction.

    Forgive me...
     
  12. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Can you expand upon why you say you just can't?
     
  13. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 Jesus Christ is King Supporter

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    Well, when I make a judgement, I try not to speak as though God is speaking through me. Because my judgements are just personal. The church has faults just like the rest of us. And so I'm not making a judgement on how the church is hypocritical and how wrong they are or how corrupt they are. My judgements are simply just personal. It's based on how I feel and how people make me feel.

    I believe with all my heart that the church is the bride of Christ. I believe that they are chosen of God. But I personally cannot attend a fellowship.

    I am not a very intelligent person. I am developmentally delayed. And I have social anxiety disorder.

    You cannot tell that I am developmentally delayed through my writings because I think I can articulate my thoughts pretty well when I write. And developmentally delayed doesn't mean a lack of small amount of intelligence, although my IQ is very low.

    But because of all of this, people do not find me all that interesting to talk to. When I went to church, people would scatter about themselves and go into groups and just Chit Chat and everytime I try to chit chat with people they were not all that interested in talking to me.

    In Church, you fine people who have their favorites, which I don't think there's anything wrong. You find people who have cliques. And they seem to argue about what is the worst sin. Plus, you have people who do not give weak Christians a time to grow spiritually. You hear people say stuff like "if you are a true Christian you would not do such and such or you would not celebrate this kind of holiday." I am not at all saying that we can't have disagreements. I am just saying that sometimes when we have disagreements we start accusing each other of not being true Christians.

    These things hurt me as a human being. It hurts that we have to accuse one another of not being true followers of Jesus Christ because we have different opinions about certain subjects. It hurts me that people in the church ignore the less important people, and give all their attention to the most important people.

    Now I haven't been following Jesus Christ. So anybody who accuses me of not following Jesus Christ would actually be telling the truth. I am admitting that. But my goal is to become a follower of Jesus Christ. I have surrendered my life to Jesus Christ 5 or 6 years ago. But I have not been able to overcome some sin in my life. But now I have decided to really work on overcoming my sin.

    So my judgments are not about me trying to make myself feel more righteous. My judgements are simply personal.

    Do I want to go to church? Of course I do, but I have just been very hurt.
     
  14. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God bless you for giving us such a witness!

    Forgive me...
     
  15. JCFantasy23

    JCFantasy23 In a Kingdom by the Sea. Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team

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    I had a sibling pair believe I wasn't a Christian because i wasn't attending a church at the time. Their parents were pastors (It's my best friend's husband and his sister I'm referring to). They were raised to believe heavily in church. The husband has now become an atheist but his father (the pastor) still doesn't know that.
     
  16. TheSeabass

    TheSeabass Well-Known Member

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    Who has been given the power and authority to decide for everyone one else which doctrine of Christ is not essential and which are essential? More so, who has been given authority over Christ to make the determination for Christ that some of His doctrine is not essential?

    Obviously no one has been given such power or authority to make such determination. ALL of Christ's doctrine is essential, (2 John 1:9-10); all God's word is important, (Matthew 4:4); all God's counsel is important (Acts 20:27).

    By trying to relegate part's of Christ's doctrine as not essential is how 1000's of religious groups developed that all contradict each other doctrinally yet all claim to be following the bible instead of having "one body" unified in the "one faith" Ephesians 4:4-5. All the contradictions are nothing but an attack against the bible.

    So who is to make the self-determination that church attendance is not essential?
     
  17. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I understand the social anxiety problem you face. Dont worry, the Lord can lead anyone, whether they attend church or not. I find online fellowship to be very helpful in staying connected with other believers.
     
  18. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    Jesus disciples were taught by him, not pastors who get paid, and lie and steal, and get paid, even when they don't know what their talking about.
    Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
    Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
    Romans chapter 1 verse 28
    Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

    John chapter 8 verse 31,32
    To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
    2 John
    9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
    Job chapter 23 verse 12
    I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

    Matthew 11
    28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
    Luke chapter 21
    33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
    Romans chapter 10
    17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
    Mark chapter 13
    31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
    James chapter 1
    25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
    James chapter 4
    8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
    Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
    I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
    Jeremiah chapter 9
    24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
    that they have the understanding to know me,
    that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
    justice and righteousness on earth,
    for in these I delight,”
    declares the Lord.
    Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
    5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
    look around and consider,
    search through her squares.
    If you can find but one person
    who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
    I will forgive this city.
    Psalm 119 verse 114
    You are my refuge and my shield; I have put my hope in your word.
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Okay. Let's do that.

    Start fresh, new, as YHWH'S Lovingkindnesses are new and fresh every morning.
     
  20. YHWH_will_uplift

    YHWH_will_uplift Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is a fantastic point to be in up as it definitely in the mind of many (unknowingly) that simply going to Church and not acting on the words of Christ will still get them in the foo to heaven. But Christ Jesus clearly tells us that those who do not do the works of God will not enter into the Kingdom. Just look s the parable of the two sons: one said he wouldn't lose to his dad but, did his dad's will in the end; the other said he would do his dad's will but, did not do it. Who did the will of the Father? The Church which refused at first but did His will at the last.
     
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