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Featured Catastrophism

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Can I see the difference in the sun turning black, and the stars (angels) falling to earth in Matthew 24, and Revelation 6?

    No. Because there is none.

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  2. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Its revealing that you don't take into account that Jesus said in Matthew 24:29 that at His Coming AFTER the Tribulation of those days....the Moon will NOT give her LIGHT....not giving her LIGHT MEANS NO BRIGHTNESS....NO BRIGHTNESS REFLECTED BY THE MOON MEANS THAT THE MOON WILL NOT BE VISIBLE AT ALL...

    Can you see a difference if you compare with a Blood Moon who reflect a light?
    bloodmoon.jpeg
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    No. Because no light at all means the moon would be invisible, as it is in the New Moon phase.

    During the New Moon phase you have no light at all, so there is no moon to see.

    The moon not giving its light means that the moon is visible, but not giving its normal light.

    Why are you attempting to ignore the sun turning black and the stars (angels) falling to earth in both Matthew 24, and Revelation 6?

    You are like a used car salesman, saying don't look at that, look over here instead...


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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  4. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    That is ...you introduce the BAB catch up term [*STRAW MAN] not mentioned in Matthew 24:29... BAB new version ''The moon not giving its light means that the moon is visible but not giving its normal light.''

    *straw man
    ˌstrô ˈman/
    noun
    noun: strawman



      • 1.
        an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
        "her familiar procedure of creating a straw man by exaggerating their approach"
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Would you talk about a flashlight not giving any light, if you did not have a flashlight?


    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


    Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    .
     
  6. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Here ya go again another straw man.

    ,and the moon shall not give her light,
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Do you think the sun, and the stars(angels) are made out of straw?

    How about Christ (the Lamb)? Is He made out of straw?

    Or is it your Premill doctrine that is made out of straw and you are afraid that the sun, and the stars(angels) are going to burn up your doctrine?



    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  8. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    3 more +a youtube video, you are surpassing yourself....Bravo!

    Yet, Jesus tell us clearly:
    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Watch "the moon not give her light" in the video of a Blood Moon found below...




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  10. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    The Moon have never ceased to REFLECT A LIGHT here what we can see at 45 sec. just before that the Moon turned progressively Red Blood ...

    Screenshot at 2018-08-24 21:55:24.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The moon is in the shadow of the Earth during a total Blood Moon.
    Therefore, it cannot directly reflect the light of the sun.

    You can only see it as a consequence of the light that is bent around the Earth and hitting the Moon.
    It is not the moon directly reflecting the light from the sun, as it normally does during a Full Moon.

    Keep talking about the moon, and ignoring the sun, and the stars(angels), just like a used car salesman who does not want the customer to see the problems with what he is trying to sell...



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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  12. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly what i said ...the Moon is STILL REFLECTING A LIGHT DURING ITS RED PHASE ...
    index.jpeg

    Thanks for confirming my point!
    Why it is important :because the 6Th Seal [Revelation 6:12] refers to
    Joel 2:31
    31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

    The Day of the Lord Coming is referred as a Day of DARKNESS and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness
    Joel 2:1-2
    1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

    2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

    There will be MANY YEARS SEPARATING THE 2 EVENTS.

    The TIME NEEDED TO FULFILL Revelation 7 Through Revelation 19.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


    Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    .
     
  14. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Can you tell us where do you place the events described to happen in Revelation 7 ..Revelation 8 through Revelation 18 ?

    Do you notice that there will be a 7 Th Seal that will be opened [Revelation 8] after the events of the 6Th Seal ''that you believe is supposedly about the Coming of Jesus on the Earth and the supposed destruction of the Earth at the 6TH Seal (?)'' to make place to the New Heaven and the New Earth of Revelation 21'', because it is mentioned that at the 6Th Seal people will see Jesus sitting on His Throne in Heaven [Revelation 6:16].

    It is evident that you have thrown out of your Bible the events described to happen in Revelation 7 Through Revelation 20.

    BAB new version of the Book of Revelation : ''The New Heaven and the New Earth mentioned in Revelation 21 will happen AFTER the opening of the 6TH Seal [Revelation 6:12-17]...Forget about what is written in Revelation 7 Through Revelation 20 that is just symbolism'
    facepalmindex.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  15. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    We have been through this on several occasions, but I will attempt it once again.

    Jesus Christ opened the seals during the first century, as is found in the Book of Revelation.
    After Christ opened the seal John is told "Come and see".

    John then recorded what he saw in the Book of Revelation.

    Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
    Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
    Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
    Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.


    Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
    Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.



    Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


    Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

    Since Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19 we know the book is not in chronological order.

    You are attempting to make the book say what you want it to say, in order to make your doctrine work.
    All of the seals were opened almost 2,000 years ago by Jesus Christ.

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  16. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    Riberra is correct, Matthew 24:29-30 and Revelation 6:12-13 are not the same event.

    Jesus is on earth during Matthew 24:29-30 but in Revelation 6:12-13, He opens the 6th Seal while in heaven.

    The book with the 7 seals is in heaven. (Revelation 5:1)

    Revelation 5:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
    1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
    2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
    3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
    4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
    5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.


    Revelation 6:12-13 King James Version (KJV)
    12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


    One moon is black. One moon is red.
     
  17. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    facepalmindex.jpeg
    Don't you think that the warning given in Revelation 22:18-19 to not add or take away words from the Book of Revelation ALSO APPLY TO THE ORDER OF THE CHAPTERS....The Book of Revelation is made of 22 Chapters ...who begin with Revelation 1 and End with Revelation 22.

    Revelation 22:18-19
    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    Do yourself a favor ....Read the Chapters who follows Revelation 6:12-17 ....They are very simple to find they are numeroted from Revelation 7 through Revelation 22.

    That way you will have a clear picture of the timeline of the plan of God for humanity ...ie for the good and the bad ...
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  18. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The same good and bad found in the verse below?

    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    .
     
  19. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Yes,what will happen to them will depend upon them having their names written in the Book of Life or Not....as mentioned in
    Revelation 20:12-15.
    12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, [even] the lake of fire.

    15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Why are they hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, if the Lamb is still in heaven?

    When is the day of the Lamb's wrath? (See 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10, Revelation 11:18)

    .
     
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