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Featured Catastrophism

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Modern science generally denies catastrophism as the means whereby geological strata was formed and historians fail to account for some sudden changes being attributable to natural disasters. Their preferred theories are gradual changes over long periods, as in the theory of evolution, of millions of years. No real attempt is made to deny that the reason for this stance, is to avoid any hint that a Supreme Deity could be responsible.

    Serious research of historical, geological and archaeological facts, does prove that in the past there were sudden and disastrous events, altering the earth’s environment, causing the death of civilizations and even altering the earths orbit.

    The Bible, our one true guide, gives details of how God has acted in His creation in the past and prophesies that He will do so again in the future. Most of the events described, past and future, can actually be attributed to natural occurrences. This is understandable, for to do a straight out miracle would remove any doubt about His existence, thereby abrogating our free will. All creation is under His control, He has established everything according to His purposes.

    The records, written and oral of many peoples, proves that circa 1495 BCE there occurred a close bypass of a large celestial object. The comet Typhon gained a place in Greek traditions as a mighty destructive monster, that hurled red hot rocks, roared loudly and caused the earth to quake. It is called Titan [Roman], Seth [Egyptian], Thor [Nordic], and Mexican, Finnish, African, South & North American and even Pacific Island peoples, have vivid traditions of how a fiery blast caused the sky to fall and killed almost everyone.

    We know the date of the Babylonian conquest of Judah – 586 BCE. Counting back the years each king of Judah reigned to King Solomon’s dedication of the Temple is a total of 429 years, plus 480 years to when the Torah was given, [1 Kings 6:1]: gives the date of 1495 BCE as the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt.

    The Apostle Paul states in 1 Corinthians 10:11 ‘All the things that happened to them [the Israelites], were symbolic and were recorded as a warning for us, upon whom the end of the age has come’. So according to Paul and many other prophets, we can expect a similar occurrence in our days. Prophesy chapters such as Isaiah 24, Jeremiah 4, Ezekiel 7, Joel 2, Amos 9, Habakkuk 3, Zephaniah 1,2,& 3, Malachi 4, 2 Peter 3 and of course: Revelation 6:12-17, the Sixth Seal, all warn us of an impending worldwide disaster.

    Possible explanations of some of what happened in the first Exodus:

    Crossing the Red sea: The powerful East wind – caused by the heating of the Mediterranean. Also the gravitational attraction of this comet, made for extreme tides.

    The Egyptian plagues: Waters turned to blood – comet debris falling to earth. Deaths – by poisoning and asphyxiation.

    Darkness: Sun moon and stars obscured by comet dust and volcanic ash.

    Manna: Numbers 11:7-9 This substance cannot possibly be from Tamarisk trees, what they produce is only seasonal and very limited. It is reported that comets may consist of some carbon and hydrates. If this material came into our atmosphere, it could condense in the cool of night into carbohydrate flakes, that would be edible and would evaporate in daytime. This phenomenon is recorded by other peoples and is the means that many of them survived.

    Calendar changes: Many ancient sources prove that before this shocking disaster, civilizations used a 360 day calendar. This comets position of travel must have been behind earth’s orbit and its gravity made our planet slow to a 365.24 year. There are a lot of references to resetting the calendar and we only got it corrected about mid common era. We see in Isaiah 13:13, the earth will again be moved out of her place, but this time the earth will speed up and once again orbit the sun in 360 days. This makes the times as given to us in Daniel and Revelation fit perfectly for the last seven years of this era.
    Ref: logostelos.info
     
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  2. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    The "theory" of catastrophism interests me, though I've not had or taken the time to really do an in-depth research of it. Being as ignorant as I am on the topic, it's awkward to even speak much on it, but just a couple of thoughts. It seems to me, rationally anyway, to be a sound cause for the plate tectonics "theory", and it seems the Grand Canyon is one of the largest most visible evidences for catastrophism. It also seems more rational of an explanation for the forming of caves, and underwater caves. But being as I am, it wouldn't be prudent for me to hold to this dogmatically. Hopefully over time I can learn more, do own a couple of books by Andrew Snelling on this subject. Probably would help to start with something more basic, then intermediate, before going full on advanced into it. Any recommendations?
     
  3. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    The books by Immanuel Velikovsky are real eye openers.
    But really; you can't beat the Bible prophets for what happened and what will happen.
    2 Peter 3:1-7 sets it out plainly: God did send Noah's Flood and the next time, He will send fire.
    What that fire will be and who it will affect, is all there for everyone to see.

    The problem is that understanding it has been made difficult for those who have chosen to believe false theories and doctrines. Isaiah 29:9-12
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    How about a supernatural act performed by the creator of the universe?


    Jos_3:11 Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth passeth over before you into Jordan.
    Jos_3:13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap.
    Jos_3:14 And it came to pass, when the people removed from their tents, to pass over Jordan, and the priests bearing the ark of the covenant before the people;
    Jos_3:15 And as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,)
    Jos_3:17 And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.

    The waters of the Red Sea could have been divided in the same way that the waters of the Jordan were divided above, even though they did not possess the ark at that time.


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  5. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    This is interesting, but what does it have to do with eschatology?
     
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  6. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Hey elder brother:wave: :hug:. Velikovsky indeed was very deep with his revelations. The Bible tells us that that what has been will be again and imho it behooves us to study what was so we will be prepared for what will be. We see amazing things happening in our world today. Some think these things have never happened before. The Bible tells us that there is nothing new under the sun.But for some reason people have trouble believing this.
    I have never heard of the plate tectonic "theory" but the Bible speaks of the fountains of the great deep were broken up.
    Gen. 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
    You might want to check out Emanuel Velikovsky on youtube.
     
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  7. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    It has to do with where we are headed.
    Ecc. 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

    10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

    11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
     
  8. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Pilgrim

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    Thank you for the recommendation. :) The plate tectonic theory is a theory espoused in the natural sciences concerning the continents of the earth, the waters separating them, and how they form a kind of jig saw puzzle. From a Biblical perspective, imagine putting all the masses of land together into one mass of land, now imagine what a catastrophic flood (considering the ratio of water to land on earth) would do to the one mass of land. Here's a wiki article explaining the naturalistic version(s) with more technical terms: tectonic theory in more depth but it is explained differently, and showing differences in explanation. Of course scrolling down into the article it reads "However, his ideas were not taken seriously by many geologists, who pointed out that there was no apparent mechanism for continental drift." That's because the mechanism is not of natural origin, and why using naturalistic methodology and the limitations of such, can only serve to keep plate tectonics in the box of theory.
     
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  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    BW, there have been catastrophes before and there will be ones again.
    You believe the Bible, believe what the prophets tell us.

    Quote Keras: The Apostle Paul states in 1 Corinthians 10:11 ‘All the things that happened to them [the Israelites], were symbolic and were recorded as a warning for us, upon whom the end of the age has come’. So according to Paul and many other prophets, we can expect a similar occurrence in our days.
    Prophesy chapters such as Isaiah 24, Jeremiah 4, Ezekiel 7, Joel 2, Amos 9, Habakkuk 3, Zephaniah 1,2,& 3, Malachi 4, 2 Peter 3 and of course: Revelation 6:12-17, the Sixth Seal, all warn us of an impending worldwide disaster. Quote Keras

    It will be a devastating Judgement/Punishment by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis and we Christians should know about it! If you don't, you have failed to read ALL of your Bible.
     
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The opposite of catastrophism in geology is uniformitarianism.

    Geologists do accept catastrophism as a method of geologic change.

    The bones of ancient rhinos were discovered buried in volcanic ash in Nebraska.
    There is just one problem.
    There were no volcanoes in Nebraska during that time period.

    Many believe those animals were buried when the Yellowstone supervolcano erupted many years ago.

    If it happens again, it would wipe out several states and perhaps change the weather patterns on the whole planet for several years.

    Recent measurements of the Yellowstone caldera indicated that it is now bulging...

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  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I gave the reason that geologists, historians and most scientists deny catastrophism; they would be forced to admit there is a God who controls what happens.

    Bab, you know where Yellowstone is don't you? Why make out that relatively insignificant part of the earth to be a possible world wide catastrophe? I, in the Southern Hemisphere, would be unaffected if a thousand square miles of America blew up. I would be sympathetic, but then just carry on with my good life.

    Please explain your reason for rejecting the idea of the Lord's Day of wrath being a CME, explosion of the suns surface.
     
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You have no idea what happens when millions of tons of volcanic ash is blown into Earth's atmosphere by a supervolcano.
    It has happened before.

    The 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora in Indonesia effected weather on the other side of the planet.
    Crops failed thousands of miles away, during the following growing season.
    Coats had to be worn during the July 4th celebration in Washington, DC during the following year.




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  13. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Never heard of the Equatorial, or Tropical Belt? You would have to ignore it if you have, because your ideas of a disaster in one hemisphere, affecting all the world; cannot happen.
    Yes, if the hemisphere that you live in was virtually wiped out, then we would have a few problems; we would have to eat all our meat, fish and milk products, etc, ourselves.

    You avoid the Biblical prophecy fact that the Lord will send fire, Amos 1, Psalms 50:1-3, + and what we are specifically told where that fire will come from. Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1

    Go by your own homilies: We should conform our viewpoint to God's Word, instead of conforming God's Word to our viewpoint.
     
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Is it the sun or the Son which brings the fire in the passage below?

    2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


    Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:


    1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can't be serious, bro. keras.

    The eruption of Pinatubo in 1991, small in comparison to historical events such as bro. BAB2 has shown with Tambora, still affected the global climate for several years.

    Yellowstone has the potential to be the largest in history. Without divine intervention, it is unlikely that anything would survive the ensuing climatic and other effects.
     
  16. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Yes, volcanoes in the equatorial zone may affect both hemispheres. But in NZ, we never had any effects of Pinatubo. or Tambora, or Krakatoa, so the theory of a volcano fulfilling the prophecy, is wrong. You Americans forget that this is a big world, you don't occupy that large an area!

    What I seriously promote, is what the prophets tell us.
    They say nothing about a volcanic eruption on the Lord's Day of wrath. That would in no way cause all the effects described, esp the cosmic ones and the rolling apart of the atmosphere.
    ONLY a Coronal Mass Ejection will do it all and then quickly move past, into outer space, allowing the survivors to recover and rebuild.
    Why fight against the truth? Even secular scientists know that a CME can happen, and there will be no warning. They say: It is not a matter of if, but when.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    You are a cracked record, BaB.
    No matter how many times people address your errors, you just keep repeating them.

    So, do you believe Jesus is a ball of fire?
    His 'coming in fire', is clearly stated as 'the Lord sends fire', Psalms 11:4-6, Amos 1, + He is not seen on His Day of wrath. But soon after; He is revealed to His own people, as Revelation 14:1 shows.

    I asked you to explain to me why you reject out of hand, the idea of the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath being a CME. Is it because you never thought of it? Or just that you don't like anything that Keras posts?
     
  18. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    It is because I am not looking for a naturalistic event, like a CME, at the Second Coming of Christ.

    I am looking for one of the greatest supernatural events in the history of the universe.

    Which of the above is indicated in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Revelation 11:18?

    I am looking for an event which is equivalent to a man being resurrected from the dead 3 days later.
    It was not a naturalistic event.

    I am looking for an event where every human who ever lived will be resurrected from the dead, which is found in John 5:27-30.

    You hang to your solar CME, if you like.

    I am looking for a miracle from God and His Son.


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  19. John Bowen

    John Bowen Active Member Supporter

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    God created man to take dominion of the Earth Genesis 1 :28 . That means we are also responsible for everything that happens . E=mc2 everything is energy and it can not be created nor destroyed .So when people sin taking God's energy "Let there be light " and misusing it they will eventually get a return of that energy .What you sow you shall reap. Sow the wind you get a hurricane .There are no natural disasters they are a return of sin misusing God's energy.If people don't follow the Creators laws like gravity walk off a tall enough building and you will most likely die.Then they have to learn the hard way through a out playing of free will .
     
  20. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    John 5:17-30 and Revelation 20:15 will happen. Absolutely a miracle!
    But that is plainly at the end of the Millennium. It is what will happen next, that I am concerned about.
    Why I am concerned, is because the Bible has a large amount of information about what God plans to do and to just ignore it, is to say to God: I don't care about Your plans.

    I know from all the prophesies, that there is soon to happen, a 'reset of our civilization' to a similar extent as what happened in Noah's time. 2 Peter 3:1-10 puts it plainly. He then goes on, in verse 11-13 to prophecy about the final NHNE, that will come after the Millennium.
     
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