Can you lose your salvation??

[rkbo]

Jaysun you miss read my post. I never said we would be sinless. I said we would not want to sin. What is the Holy Spirits job as he indwells you? Would you say that God is not able to do his job? He is growing you and building you toward perfection. Not that you already have perfection but that you are growing towards it. God is doing this through you and in you. Nothing my friend, can keep you from the love of Christ. Nothing. Paul even states that nothing in the future or any creature. Seeing that he himself is a creature , then this includes himself. If there was something that could keep him from the love of Christ he would have said it. He would have said all these things exept this one thing. But he did not.
Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our
(KJV)

Do you see how comprehensive this is. See the context, see the point. See that he is saying that nothing and absolutly nothing can keep him from the love of Christ. This is a very clear verse and we should use this verse to help interpret other verses.

 

[lig75]

Many gave great scripture refereence to eternal salvation. It worries me that a TV network circling the globe is teachinga of a save and then lost salvation. Its like greasing your hands and pulling a drowning person out of the water, only to slip back into the depths. One who repents, believes Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, the Word made flesh and dwelt among men, gave His life on a cruel cross after much abuse and punishment, whose very spilled blood washes away all of one's sins... CANNOT slip out of His hands or be taken out by any one or fashion. It is a flimsy way of thinking of the power of God. It is like playing Russion Roulette, spin in sin and get back in line and hope you don't die while doing your favorite sins, but only when you get back on your righteous path. Hervey and others what does the power of Almighty God mean to you? You should also pray for discernment of the Holy scriptures to rightly divide the word of truth...God Bless, Bro. Gil

 

[DeleseRose]

I personally don't believe it's possible to lose your salvation once you've been saved. As long as you meant it, when you asked Jesus Christ to forgive you and enter in your life, you're saved. God cannot and does not take back his salvation when he gave it to you. Now, works will determine your reward. Reward or no reward you are saved. ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.

 

[The Squelch Master]

Hi, I post this thread as a warning to everyone- Jesus has clearly told me in several dreams and through speaking to me that a genuine Christian can be eternally lost. I didn't believe it until now- I thought that OSAS was true and that one you belonged to Jesus that was it, you are eternally safe. Jesus has clearly said to me that you can only remain eternally secure if you remain faithful to him- otherwise you are at serious risk of committing the unpardonable sin. Yes a Christian CAN commit it.
How do we commit it? By rejecting Christ -can be either through a single deliberate act, or an eventuality as a result of sustained rejection of Christ, can also be the end result of sin- which was the case with me. Sin DOES lead to death. What happened with me? I was given a final ultimatum in my life to give up all deliberate sin in my life, but I refused firstly out of stubbornless, then lack of faith and hope- I lost faith that I was God's child due to having no sense at all of his love or presence in my life for well over a year and only a feeling of total emptyness and condemnation. As a result I stubbornly refused to give up sin unless God told me that I was his child. However God said he had made it clear that I was his child on many occaisions in the past, yet I refused to believe him and used this lack of belief as an excuse to continue deliberately sinning. God however consistantly warned me in my conscience and in dreams that unless I gave up all the deliberate sin in my life I would be eternally lost- but I refused to believe it, believing what I had been told in church that a Christian cannot lose their salvation and eventually came to the conclusion that I was eternally lost already because God refused to tell me otherwise and that if I continued sinning it didn't matter because I couldn't lose my salvation. What did God do? He gave me over to Satan- I found myself possessed by Satan and falling into the worst kind of evil possible- I was continuously overwhelmingly tempted to worship Satan and call him 'Lord' and pray against other Christians and against God's work. I was warned in several dreams that if I fell I would be eternally condemned to hell. I managed to resist this for several months. However Satan also tempted me overwhelmingly in the flesh for several months- I was so carnal as a Christian that I found this virtually impossible to resist- I, still fearing that I would lose my salvation after more warnings in a dreams resisted this overwhelming pressure to succumb for several months. However though I did not share this, at Church I was told that it didn't matter what I did, I could not lose my salvation and on the verge of suicide, thinking that I was about to fall, accepted this and believed it with all my heart. However none of the temptations went away and I soon began to doubt my salvation- I became absolutely convinced that I had never become a genuine Christian and had already committed the eternal sin. I tried in vain many times to become a genuine Christian even trying to give up all my sin first but was refused by God and given absolutely no assurance from God that I had ever been saved. In the end I became so convinced that I was eternally lost that I fell and gave into the fleshly demonic temptations (constant vicious sexual attacks)- I heard Satan audibly say to me that if I was saved I couldn't lose my salvation, so know for sure now that it is a lie. I have since lost all sense of my conscience and found myself almost worshipping Satan- I have since almost been forced to eternally sell my soul to Satan and give my life to him in serving him. I tried to get out of it by asking Jesus to forgive me but he clearly seemed to refuse- I found it almost impossible to ask for forgiveness as well. This morning though, I have finally managed to break free and ask Jesus for one last final chance and vowed never to fall for these temptations again even if I do not feel that I am forgiven and saved ever again.
I don't know if there is any hope for me- all I know is that I seemed to have been released from Satan, but Jesus HAS clearly warned me and has shown me in experience that a Christian CAN be eternally lost and has warned me in another dream that had I given in and sold my soul to Satan I would have done just that and would have been Satan's and possessed by Satan for ever- If I have been given a last chance, then I know for sure that I was literally hanging onto salvation by a thread and that it almost broke.
But my experience together with that of many other Christians who have been told in visions by Jesus that they can lose their salvation and had a final chance, now convinces me for sure that Christians too can commit the unpardonable sin. There is only one finality- hell and eternal death- If we do not remain in Jesus, we can be thrown into the lake of fire.
I know this much I am really messed up because of all this- I have decided to give up church for now, unless Jesus ever tells me that I am forgiven for falling so deep into evil.
I didn't mean to, I just became absolutely convinced that I was eternally lost and eventually fell after months of relentless vicious overwhelming temptation- it was loss of hope that caused me to fall in the end, but it doesn't wash with God at all. I don't think God is a God of infinite grace and forgiveness- we can blow it and I think for sure I have.

 

[JohnR7]

I had a problem with sexual sin once also, and God just gave me a choice. I could go with the women I was involved with at the time, or I could leave her and go with God. He made it very clear that if I chose to go with her, then I would be ON MY OWN. That means whatever problems I had, it would be up to me to solve it. That was not something I was willing to do. I need God's help, and I was not willing to give up His help when I needed it. So, I walked away from my sin, and I made a clear choice for God. It was not a easy thing to do at the time, but I did it.

God is there to help us, if we decide we want to live fully for Him. He will give us all we need to be free. Also, I go to a church that teaches and preaches that we are and can live free from sin. That is why there is so much of the power of God there. It is there for those who are willing to serve God and do His will. God wants what is best for us, and He does not want that we should compromise.

Paul gives us a list of the works of the flesh that can cause people to be lost. Also John the Beloved has a list of things that will cause someone to be thrown into the lake of fire. Thanks, JohnR7

Galatians 5:19-26
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[jrmorganjr]

TSM,

It's obvious you've been through a great deal of stress and trauma. My heart goes out to you!

Under such duress and battering, it is very very difficult to see clearly. Your theological approach to me seems sincere but haphazard, with the lines between a fevered, suffering mind and rational, clear thinking being thin. Your whole conversation leads to the fact that you're not sure whether you are (or ever have been) saved. I would STRONGLY suggest, command if I could, that you find a faithful church and seek help, even professional help, through that church. There is virtually no way you can fight this alone! You're not even supposed to try!

Please, your claims are distressing and contradictory, and I don't believe are serving you well either in Truth or in your own eternal well being. You need to find help!

God's blessings to you in Christ,

 

[JohnR7]

>>even professional help, through that church.

There is a lot to be said for where James tells us to call for the elders of the church to pray for us. The Bible says that one can send a thousand to flight, but two in agrement can send 10,000 to flight. I believe there are times that we need to join together with our brothers and sisters in the Lord in agreement to overcome some things, that we are just not able to overcome on our own. That is one reason why I believe the atonement is twofold, not only to join us back together in fellowship with the father, but to bring us back into proper fellowship with each other.

If someone is involved in a ungodly relationship, it's going to have to come to an end sooner or later anyways. So it's best just to get right with God, so we can enjoy His blessings. Why continue to allow ourselves to get beaten and brused, when we can be free in Him and enjoy the bounty that our Heavenly Father has for us. The way of the transgressor is a HARD way, but for those who walk with God, they have an abundance of gladnesss. Even we have love, peace and joy unspeakable. He can provide a comfort and a satisifaction for us, that the world just can not provide. He will truly satisify us with Good if we will allow Him to. Thanks, JohnR7

 

[jrmorganjr]

Thanks for adding that in, JohnR7.

Upon reflection and prayer, I am moved to even more emphatically and stridently say to you, TSM, seek Christian help now . Go to ANY length to find a faithful church and go to them.

God can restore you. Among His other means, He will use God's people to do so.

Run to Him!

 

[Optimus_P]

You should not doubt the Lord, and the promise he has made to you. He died for your sin. If you accept him has your Lord and Savyor you would be calling him a lier to say you can not be saved. Put your faith in the Lord, and you will over come the mountins in your walk w/ the Lord.

Its not always easy street, many times you will be pushed to doubt. Doubt opens the door for what-if's. If you truly believe in the Lord fear nothing for the Lord is in you.

 

[VOW]

TSM, I'm going to add my two cents' worth:

Yes, by all means, seek out a pastor or a minister who has dealt with this type of situation before. There are many who specialize in this ministry.

I also suggest you get a complete physical from your family doctor, and ask for a referral for psychiatric help. While demonic possession is indeed real, the ability of you to hear voices also suggests that perhaps your brain chemistry is not functioning correctly, and this can alter your perception of the world. You even need to be tested for low blood sugar or a thyroid imbalance.

Help is out there, all you have to do is ask.



Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[TheBear]

The Squelch Master,

The important thing for you, is not any particular doctrine or church teaching. The important thing is for you to stop, humbly ask God's forgiveness, accept that Jesus already paid for your sins, re-dedicate your life to the Lord, and seek Christian fellowsip, immediately. A lot of what you "heard" is not scriptually sound. And, God never contradicts Himself. Take baby steps. Start over. And ask God to bring you to good Christian fellowship. Remember, "Where two or three are gathered in My name, I am in their midst."

I will be praying for you.


John

 

[Messenger]

God sent his only son to die for all of us. We must accept this gift in order to receive Salvation. If after accepting Salvation you turn from Jesus and no longer follow him, then I agree Salvation at that point for you is lost. By accepting Jesus we live our lives pleasing God not Satan. It is a constant thought and effort. We will not be perfect, we will make mistakes but we must never give up and keep fighting the good fight. God loves us.
Love and God Bless

 

[Messenger]

Here's something that helped me:

Simplicity of Life

There is much more and much less to this world and life than people think. We think too hard. We need to spend more time listening with our hearts. We too often react in worldly ways. We are all in control of ourselves. We have little control over physical and worldly happenings.

Money seems to take care of everything. Yet, money means nothing. People listen to money. Money speaks. If someone can listen only with money--- They are not fully ready to receive God.

Everything is Black and White. It appears simpler to live thinking there are shades of gray. Wrong appears easier at times and pointing the finger at others wrongs gives us a false sense of security in ourselves. It seems easier to do what we think and not what we know in our hearts. Only through listening to our hearts and doing what is right will we find true joy, love and contentment within ourselves.

Love one another - you don't have to love a persons actions or reactions. We have our own thoughts and beliefs. We have ways in which we are right. Each of us have ways in which we are wrong. Who are we to judge each others actions and beliefs. Neither of us is more or less only different. We are all from God. Be true to your heart. Be true to God. No human being can be right at all times and separate from worldly things totally. Only God is pure and perfect. He is all positive.

Take knowledge, thoughts, beliefs and ideas from others to make you more. Let go of and don't except into your heart negative things or ideas that make you less. Don't let what others do wrong have a negative influence for you to do wrong. Stive to share the positive and let go of the negative.

Let go of any false sense of responsibility you feel towards others which cause you resentment. We don't need to make people feel or act the way we think they should. Don't let go of your responsibility of you. We are each in SOUL CONTROL of ourselves. We can't control all that is around us but if we can find joy, love and contentment within our hearts this is the meaning of life --- this is the point.

People are looking too much in the world for the answers to life. If they would just stop and "smell the roses" the answer to life is so simple. We don't need to worry about buying things to make our children happy. It's not possible to teach our children every worldly thing and never make mistakes. The #1 thing to teach our children, ourself and help others to understand is how to listen with our hearts to God. People need to feel Right from Wrong. Strive to do right no matter how "wronged" you might feel.

Love yourself and be true to yourself
Be simple
Look at the simple picture of life
Don't think too hard
Listen and you will hear
When it's truly right you will know

God speaks in mysterious ways. He will not put us through more than we can handle. Burdens, troubles, joys, sadness, pain and love are all for reasons. The reasons are not always clear or to be known right now. When it's time to know if we are open and true to our hearts we'll know.
Strive to be right and fair. Don't worry over mistakes you make. We all need to learn. Don't be afraid to say when your wrong or sorry this makes you more--not less.
If one day seems so good. It doesn't mean everyday will seem just as good. If one day seems so bad it doesn't mean tomorrow won't bring happiness.

ONE DAY AT A TIME
--------------------
messenger

Love and God Bless

 

[amie]

Originally posted by JohnR7
I could go with the women I was involved with at the time, or I could leave her and go with God. He made it very clear that if I chose to go with her, then I would be ON MY OWN.

God would never leave you. God is there for us ALWAYS.
Amie

 

[Messenger]

Originally posted by amie

God would never leave you. God is there for us ALWAYS.
Amie

Very true but sometimes we leave him. We just live for the world and walk away from God and salvation. Salvation is a gift we have to choose it and keep it.

Love and God Bless

 

[amie]

Hi Messenger,
yes we do leave him sometimes, but he never gives up on us and he never ever leaves us...
Amie

 

[ZiSunka]

Hi, I post this thread as a warning to everyone- Jesus has clearly told me in several dreams and through speaking to me that a genuine Christian can be eternally lost.

Dreams that contradict the Bible don't mean anything.

It is more likely some fear in you, or some desire to be special to God, that produced this dream, than it is a message from the Holy Spirit.

Please don't go around stating as fact that which you have only dreamed, especially when it directly contradicts the teachings of the Bible.

If you really want to know what this dream means, I recommmend that you go to www.dreamdoctor.com. It has very helpful information about interpreting dreams.

Dreams almost always come from within us. They are your subconscious mind telling you something you won't listen to when you are awake, or they are produced by some great longing in you that cannot be fulfilled in real life. Few dreams are messages from the Spirit.

No matter what, dreams from the Spirit will not be in conflict with the Bible.

 

[Messenger]

Hi, Lamb's Love. How do you believe his dream conterdicts the Bible?
SqualchMaster, I will keep you in my prayers. Pray the Lord's Prayer and anytime your in doubt or tempted. Resist temptation....it comes easier and easier with time. Do as Christ did and tell Satan to be gone. There are so many good Bible verses to help you out. I find the NIV bible the easiest to read....but others like different versions. Seek God with all your heart and soul and Satan will realize he lost the battle and leave. I'm very happy for your new start today. Love and God Bless

 

[eldermike]

When we are "saved" we become "sons/daughters of God, kinship is kinship. There is nothing you can do to change your kinship relationships. You are your mothers son/daughter, your fathers son/daughter and your heavenly Fathers son/daughter. You would have to have a power equal to God's power to change kinship.

Guilt doesn't come from your Father. Doubting salvation is a trick of the enemy.

Last point: Sin breaks relations with God but doesn't change kinship. There are many scriptures that lead one to one side of this issue or the other but if you will read them with my last statement in mind they will begin to make sense.

Never doubt: God knows his children and they know Him.

Blessings to all

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Messenger
Hi, Lamb's Love. How do you believe his dream conterdicts the Bible?

Read the Bible and find out!