Salvation is in your hands, Jesus did his part

[d taylor]

It seems to me (please correct me if I am mistaken) that we agree about these things: We agree that what we must to to be saved is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and that good works will not save us, nor will sinning after we have been saved "un-save" us. From the verses you quote from 1 Corinthians, it seems you also agree that saved sinners should not continue in sin, which is why Paul speaks out against the gross sexual sins of some in the church at Corinth.

-
​

Here is my belief. That God wants all born again believers to live a Christ like life and produce a life of good fruit, but in reality that does not happen.
Which God addresses in The Bible, but sadly many have taken these verses. Addressing how a believer should live their lives and God's discipline if they get caught up in a sinful life style. And applied them to what a person must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
Then they go around saying this person is living this way or that way in sin, so they are really not a (true) believer. Which is just a false judgment of people. They may or may not actually have believed in Jesus for Eternal Life, but that can not simply be judged on how they are living their life.

A person should be obedient and love Jesus, etc.. but not as part of receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. Obedience and loving Jesus, etc.. are all part of the grow and spiritual maturity of a believer.

For many Believers fail all the time and some even fail to the point of loosing their faith and return back to a secular world. Even some coming to no longer believe in God.

 

[David Lamb]

-
​

Here is my belief. That God wants all born again believers to live a Christ like life and produce a life of good fruit, but in reality that does not happen.
Which God addresses in The Bible, but sadly many have taken these verses. Addressing how a believer should live their lives and God's discipline if they get caught up in a sinful life style. And applied them to what a person must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
Then they go around saying this person is living this way or that way in sin, so they are really not a (true) believer. Which is just a false judgment of people. They may or may not actually have believed in Jesus for Eternal Life, but that can not simply be judged on how they are living their life.

A person should be obedient and love Jesus, etc.. but not as part of receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. Obedience and loving Jesus, etc.. are all part of the grow and spiritual maturity of a believer.

For many Believers fail all the time and some even fail to the point of loosing their faith and return back to a secular world. Even some coming to no longer believe in God.

Yes, I agree with that. I assume that when you talk of someone coming to no longer believe in God, you are speaking of something temporary, and that they are brought back to belief.

 

[d taylor]

Yes, I agree with that. I assume that when you talk of someone coming to no longer believe in God, you are speaking of something temporary, and that they are brought back to belief.

-

​

Again they may or may not. God may take their life before they come back to God or they may simply stay fallen away till their death.

Really what is the difference pertaining to a person gift of Eternal Life, they received at the very moment they believed in Jesus. One no longer believes, but eventually someway comes back to God, another no longer believes and dies in unbelief.

The difference is in their bema seat Judgment of God's born again children, they will face with Jesus. Not in whether staying in belief or coming back to belief proves they were really believers.

 

[Bro.T]

-
​

No need to discuss Acts chapter 2 as it is not directed to people now, unless you are a man of Judea living back in Peter's time. It is only concerning the Jewish believers who participated in the death of Jesus.

Really there is no more need for me to further discuss this any more as obviously you do not understand the scripture verses you are using and i think is is a hopeless effort in trying to correct your misunderstandings.

That's fine...peace in Jesus name

 

[Bro.T]

Listen very carefully to what the Master is saying here.

Mark 8: 34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. 36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? 37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Look at verse 35 in Mark, For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. What life are you losing? That sinful life. If you pick up his cross and bare it, you put off that old man and put on the new. Verse 36, For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Remember you cannot take anything with you into the next life. What shall you give in exchange for eternal life in the GOD family? Look what JESUS says here. Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

So when you are being persecuted for the Word's sake, and you are ashamed instead of standing your ground, HE will be ashamed to mention you when he returns. Do you know what that means? You will hit the Lake Of Fire. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

 

[David Lamb]

-

​

Again they may or may not. God may take their life before they come back to God or they may simply stay fallen away till their death.

Really what is the difference pertaining to a person gift of Eternal Life, they received at the very moment they believed in Jesus. One no longer believes, but eventually someway comes back to God, another no longer believes and dies in unbelief.

The difference is in their bema seat Judgment of God's born again children, they will face with Jesus. Not in whether staying in belief or coming back to belief proves they were really believers.

But we do have promises in the New Testament that those whom the Lord saves, He keeps. I don't see anything in the bible that suggests that someone who dies in unbelief will get a chance to believe at the judgment seat. Only God knows the true condition of a persons's heart, but someone falling into unbelief so seriously that they never come back from it seems to be at least showing signs that he was never saved to start with.

 

[d taylor]

But we do have promises in the New Testament that those whom the Lord saves, He keeps. I don't see anything in the bible that suggests that someone who dies in unbelief will get a chance to believe at the judgment seat. Only God knows the true condition of a persons's heart, but someone falling into unbelief so seriously that they never come back from it seems to be at least showing signs that he was never saved to start with.

-
​

You ask me if a someone falls away
someone coming to no longer believe in God, you are speaking of something temporary, and that they are brought back to belief.

I was thinking you were speaking about a believer who had stopped believing. But it looks like with this post #66 that you are talking about a person who has never believed in Jesus. Because you place them at a judgement seat (which i do not know which judgment seat you are speaking of). But if not why do they need to believe in Jesus again, believing and receiving Eternal Life is a one time permanent event.


But regardless of your post. I am saying if a person who believes in Jesus for Eternal Life and becomes a born again child of God (a believer). Then at some point in their life they stop believing (loose their faith) they still remain a born again child of God.
Nothing, not even the person's own self, can separated the child of God from the eternal life they received at the very moment the believed in Jesus.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

There is no where in The Bible where it is stated a person who stops believing can cross back over from life to death

This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

 

[Bro.T]

-
​

You ask me if a someone falls away
someone coming to no longer believe in God, you are speaking of something temporary, and that they are brought back to belief.

I was thinking you were speaking about a believer who had stopped believing. But it looks like with this post #66 that you are talking about a person who has never believed in Jesus. Because you place them at a judgement seat (which i do not know which judgment seat you are speaking of). But if not why do they need to believe in Jesus again, believing and receiving Eternal Life is a one time permanent event.


But regardless of your post. I am saying if a person who believes in Jesus for Eternal Life and becomes a born again child of God (a believer). Then at some point in their life they stop believing (loose their faith) they still remain a born again child of God.
Nothing, not even the person's own self, can separated the child of God from the eternal life they received at the very moment the believed in Jesus.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

There is no where in The Bible where it is stated a person who stops believing can cross back over from life to death

This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.

Paul says in (Colo. 1:22-23) (v.22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (v.23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settle, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

You must continue in the faith and not be moved by the cares of the world. It’s more than confessing the name of Jesus, salvation is a work in progress you must take it one day at a time. It is a sad thing to believe that once you say that you believe on Christ your journey is done. You have only taken the first steps toward learning about the true and living God.

 

[d taylor]

Paul says in (Colo. 1:22-23) (v.22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (v.23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settle, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

You must continue in the faith and not be moved by the cares of the world. It’s more than confessing the name of Jesus, salvation is a work in progress you must take it one day at a time. It is a sad thing to believe that once you say that you believe on Christ your journey is done. You have only taken the first steps toward learning about the true and living God.

_
​

I never wrote that confessing the name of Jesus is how a person receives God pernamnet gift of Eternal Life. You must be reading someones else's post and applying to mine.

 

[Rapture Bound]

Paul says in (Colo. 1:22-23) (v.22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (v.23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settle, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

You must continue in the faith and not be moved by the cares of the world. It’s more than confessing the name of Jesus, salvation is a work in progress you must take it one day at a time. It is a sad thing to believe that once you say that you believe on Christ your journey is done. You have only taken the first steps toward learning about the true and living God.

You stated, "You *must* continue in the faith and not be moved by the cares of the world." So ... *must* a child of God continue in the faith until their dying breath/" ... or "*will* a child of God necessarily and inevitably continue in the faith until their dying breath?" ... is it *must* or *Will*? Here's my perspective :

Must vs Will :


1 John 5:4, For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

It's my assertion that at the point of new birth/regeneration a believer has, at that very point in time, "overcome the world" and is consequently assured of receiving a heavenly inheritance ... they *will* assuredly enter the Gates of Heaven. [ see my post #559 < Can a genuine, blood-bought, regenerated believer forfeit their salvation? >

On the other hand, the "conditionalists" [those who claim that some genuine believers will ultimately forfeit their salvation and forever perish in the Lake of Fire] assert that believers *must* continue trusting in Christ in order to receive their heavenly inheritance.

Therefore, the disagreement here lies in the words *will* and *must*. In order to shed more light on the opposing viewpoints ... consider the following key questions :

Should we view faith as a condition or requirement of "continued salvation"? or, should we perceive that "enduring faith" as the guaranteed by-product of regeneration?

*Must* believers persevere by faith, in the faith? ... or *will* God preserve the believer's faith?

Here's how I perceive a harmonization between those seemingly irreconcilable viewpoints can be attained :

There exists a sense in which it shouldn't be understood as an "either/or" scenario, but rather "both/and" :

[1] We [believers] *must* persevere by faith, in the faith, to enter Heaven (2 Tim. 2:12; Heb.3:14;10:26; Col.1:22-23). Not to persevere is to perish.

[2] God **will** preserve the believer's faith in the faith even though at times they may doubt and wander from the path of righteousness and have moments of doubts and fears. They *will* most certainly hold true to his promise by that none of His children will fall so far as to apostatize [i.e. totally and absolutely abandon or reject the person or the sufficiency of Christ's atoning work on their behalf ]. God *will* preserve them [i.e. - those who have authentically experienced the new birth], therefore, they *will* in fact persevere, they will endure by faith, they *will*, in the end, enter the Gates of Heaven.

Jude 1:1-2,”Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and *preserved* in Jesus Christ:”*

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24,” Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be *preserved* blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who *will* also do it.”

 

[Bro.T]

You stated, "You *must* continue in the faith and not be moved by the cares of the world." So ... *must* a child of God continue in the faith until their dying breath/" ... or "*will* a child of God necessarily and inevitably continue in the faith until their dying breath?" ... is it *must* or *Will*? Here's my perspective :

Must vs Will :

I agree with Paul, he says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. We have to continue in God’s goodness or we will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.

1 John 5:4, For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

It's my assertion that at the point of new birth/regeneration a believer has, at that very point in time, "overcome the world" and is consequently assured of receiving a heavenly inheritance ... they *will* assuredly enter the Gates of Heaven. [ see my post #559 < Can a genuine, blood-bought, regenerated believer forfeit their salvation? >

On the other hand, the "conditionalists" [those who claim that some genuine believers will ultimately forfeit their salvation and forever perish in the Lake of Fire] assert that believers *must* continue trusting in Christ in order to receive their heavenly inheritance.

Therefore, the disagreement here lies in the words *will* and *must*. In order to shed more light on the opposing viewpoints ... consider the following key questions :

Should we view faith as a condition or requirement of "continued salvation"? or, should we perceive that "enduring faith" as the guaranteed by-product of regeneration?

*Must* believers persevere by faith, in the faith? ... or *will* God preserve the believer's faith?

Here's how I perceive a harmonization between those seemingly irreconcilable viewpoints can be attained :

There exists a sense in which it shouldn't be understood as an "either/or" scenario, but rather "both/and" :

[1] We [believers] *must* persevere by faith, in the faith, to enter Heaven (2 Tim. 2:12; Heb.3:14;10:26; Col.1:22-23). Not to persevere is to perish.

[2] God **will** preserve the believer's faith in the faith even though at times they may doubt and wander from the path of righteousness and have moments of doubts and fears. They *will* most certainly hold true to his promise by that none of His children will fall so far as to apostatize [i.e. totally and absolutely abandon or reject the person or the sufficiency of Christ's atoning work on their behalf ]. God *will* preserve them [i.e. - those who have authentically experienced the new birth], therefore, they *will* in fact persevere, they will endure by faith, they *will*, in the end, enter the Gates of Heaven.

Jude 1:1-2,”Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and *preserved* in Jesus Christ:”*

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24,” Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be *preserved* blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who *will* also do it.”

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

 

[Bro.T]

I agree with Paul, he says in (Rom. 11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. We have to continue in God’s goodness or we will be cut off. This is also the writing of thee Apostle Paul. You must continue to keep God’s laws if you expect to receive salvation.


Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

_
​

I never wrote that confessing the name of Jesus is how a person receives God pernamnet gift of Eternal Life. You must be reading someones else's post and applying to mine.

Ok, my bag if I say that you said that.