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Can you lose your salvation??

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Sandman777, Jan 2, 2002.

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  1. Sandman777

    Sandman777 Here comes the Sandman.....

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    I read about this in the other thread (a post by Psalm 22:3), and have always wondered about this. I have been a Christian for a few years now, but have backslidden a bit. Am I still saved? I worry about this a lot.
     
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  2. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Hi, Sandman ~ rest assured, you cannot ever lose your salvation. Paul, writing to the elect in Romans says this in chapter 8:

    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

    36 As it is written:

    "For Your sake we are killed all day
    long;
    We are accounted as sheep for the
    slaughter."

    37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

    38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,

    39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    We have the assurance of His everlasting love and He has promised never to leave us. What comfort that is to us who belong to Him!

    God bless you, Sandman. I will pray for you.



    [This message has been edited by MizDoulos (edited 02 January 2002).]
     
  3. Bass

    Bass Bassist

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    What if you backslide into sin? Wouldn't you "lose" your salvation then?
     
  4. Beloved One

    Beloved One New Member

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    Hey Sandman,
    been there, thought that. well I guess it depends on who you ask or which verse you want to use, having only studied the bible twice all the way thru. I think the only way to lose your salvation is to blaspheme the holy spirt before the antichrist. however I could be wrong. I do know that the LORD thinks and considers things on a whole other level. one of my favorite parables Luke 15:11-32 should help you. your brother in Christ. Dave
     
  5. WayneH

    WayneH Washed in His Blood

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    Hi sandman - bass..... i can only echo what has been said thus far... Whatever Christ holds in His hands - no one can rip from him... The father has given him the believers and satan can not take them - of course Satan will do EVERYTHING in HIS POWER to pull a Christian down..

    Bass...... We all stumble time to time - but When We are washed by the Blood of the Lamb - its forever - like I said - satan will do anything to drag a Christian down - We need to repent - ask for forgiveness and move on drawing closer to Christ..

    ------------------
    Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God - and all these things shall be added unto you ( Matt 6:33 )
     
  6. Stephanie

    Stephanie New Member

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    Hi~ I agree with what everyone else has stated. I also have questioned this. My husband was raised with a pastor for a father who does think you can lose salvation. Therefore, I have read much scripture to support the fact that we do NOT lose salvation. (which has been posted here). I do think we ALL backslide. Well, most of us. I should not say all. But we all sin, every day. None of us are sinless. No matter how hard we try.

    John 10:28-30 (NIV)
    28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[1] ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
    30 I and the Father are one."


    ------------------
    Stephanie
     
  7. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Hi all:

    Yes, you can loose your "Christian salvation" ! No one can take it from you, but you yourself can loose it.

    Lucifer had eternal life, but lost it.

    Cain had the possibility of eternal life, but lost it ( no murderer hath any eternal life abiding in him - I John 3:15 - other references about Cain > I John 3:12 & Jude 11 )

    A third of the angels followed Lucifer, and lost their "eternal life". Now they will be going into the "Lake of fire", known also as the "second death".

    So can we loose our eternal salvation ? Yes indeed , we can !! We "need" to stay faithful in our walk in righteousness.

    We can and do sin, but we can ask for forgiveness of these sins, and bring ourselves back into the righteousness we were redeemed into. Some sins are not forgiven, so one "must" be careful as to what one thinks that they can get away with while they are sinning. References - I John 1:6 thru verse 10 and also I John 2:1 thru 3.

    There is "sin unto death" > I John 5:13 thru verse 18. This tells us that it is up to "You" the sinner, to be careful and "keepeth himself" from the sins that are "sin unto death".

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  8. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Every Christian will backslide from time to time because in practice we are not perfect, only in our position in Christ. When we do sin, Christ promised to forgive us and Father God said he would even forget our transgressions. We, as Christians, have been sealed by the Holy Spirit into the family of God. We cannot lose our salvation according to Scripture. People have differing opinions, but the only truth that matters is Scripture.

    "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
    (1 Jo. 1:9,10)

    "I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake;
    And I will not remember your sins."
    (Is. 43:25)

    "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
    (Eph. 4:30)

     
  9. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

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    If we are unable to save ourselves how then could we keep ourselves saved. I rest in the power of God, through Jesus' death on the cross. He died for all of our sins, not just the ones that we committed before we came to Him. If salvation is something that could be lost then Jesus' death on the cross was insufficient, and eternal life would not be a FREE gift. It would be a gift that we would have to work to keep. We are saved by grace through faith, not by works. If works play any part in our salvation, whether by attaining or keeping then we are not saved by grace. Jesus said He is the Good Shepherd and He gives His sheep eternal life.
    If we could lose it then it isn't eternal life.
     
  10. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    MizDoulos:

    Read what it says in I Corinthians 10:1 thru verse 15, and pay special attention to what it says in verses 6 thru 12.

    Love IN Christ - HErvey

    [This message has been edited by Hervey (edited 03 January 2002).]
     
  11. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Hi, Hervey:

    The chapter (10) in 1 Corinthians you refer to is speaking of the Old Testament Israelites whom the Holy Spirit left when they sinned. When they obeyed God, they were once again blessed with the Holy Spirit's presence.

    "But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the Lord troubled him."
    (1 Sam 16:14)


    However, in the New Testament, Christ promised to leave the Holy Spirit with us. He will never leave us even if we sin. This is the difference between the presence of God through His Spirit in the Old and New Testaments.

    "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, 'Abba, Father!' Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."
    (Gal. 4:4-7)

    "Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, 'I will never leave you nor forsake you.'"
    (Heb. 13:5)

    "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forver -- 'the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor know Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you."
    (Jo. 14:16-18)

    The Scriptures are quite clear. Hope this helps.

     
  12. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    MizDoulos:

    I Corinthians chapter 10 is addressed to the Church ! "Lest ye fall"

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  13. psalms 22.3

    psalms 22.3 Member

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    can me mess up to bad to not be saved anymore? by no means, his love for us is almighty and omnipotent. loss of your salvation is not determined by the amount of your mistakes, it cant be torn from your hands.
    as mixdoulos showed.

    but to blaspheme the holyspirit is an unforgivable thing according to jesus.
    it is speak or act against.
    and that is always a choice you make.
    you cannot have salvation torn from you, and you cannot be torn from gods hand.
    but you can throw your salvation away, and you can jump from gods hand, you can willfully choose to forsake your salvation and turn away.
    and that is the only thing that will cause you to "loose your salvation".

    i dont think you will ever reach a place where you cannot return to god, but i do think we can reach a place where we cast our salvation off and not care to return.
    (though those are my own thoughts)

    so lets read gods own words in hebrews 6.4-6

    4-5
    it is impossible for those where ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and HAVE TASTED the heavonly gift, and WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLYGHOST, and HAVE TASTED the good word of god, AND the powers of the world to come.

    (this is simply showing that these people are not babes in christ, these are people who have been there and done that, and are well aware of what the next verse states, these people are mature and do not do this in ignorance or mistake, they have much more responsibility)

    6.
    if they shall FALL AWAY,(not the same as falling down) to RENEW them AGAIN(theyve done it before) to repentance:
    (for this reason)
    seeing they crucify to themselves the son of god afresh
    (theyve crucified him to themselves, theyve chosen to forsake him and cast him away willingly, they chose this)
    and put him to an open shame.

    notice it says "to renew them"
    its speaking of the efforts of other people to bring them back. not that persons own efforts, that person isnt making any effort.

    its speaking of experienced christians who know better, willingly casting their salvation away and refusing to come back.
    you cannot renew them to repentance, you cannot bring a person like this back to god.
    because they already knew everything, and still choose to forsake him.
    theres nothing you can do for those, they cannot come back to god, because they will not come back themselves.

    a person who wants god, will never be refused, the fact that you want god proves that you can still be saved.
    ask and it shall be given, knock and it will be opened. we all make mistakes, we all sin even after salvation, and we keep asking for forgivness.

    you can only choose to lose your salvation forever.

    god wants you to be saved more than you want it yourself, hell never refuse you.

    dont worry about losing your salvation, unless that is what you really want, it wont happen.

     
  14. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Hervey, let's not get accusatory. We are Christians and this is simply a discussion.

    Yes, chapter 10, as well as the whole book, is speaking to Christians. However, in chapter 10, Paul is referring to ancient Israel of whom he was a descendent. He was speaking of the lack of self-discipline and subsequent disqualification and asked his readers to remember what had happened to Israel in the wilderness because of freedom without lack of self-control. (The MacArhtur Study Bible, p. 1743)

    This was just a reminder. Paul wasn't implying that we Christians would lose our salvation today.

    I'm not here to argue. I'll let the Scriptures speak. What will you do with the other verses quoted in my last post? If you are going to be stuck on one chapter, there is nothing more to be said. All Scripture must be taken into consideration and divided rightly.

    What this comes down to is the authority of Scripture. I hold the Scriptures to be authoritative. Scripture will always verify other verses in the Bible and must be taken in context.

    Peace to you.
     
  15. psalms 22.3

    psalms 22.3 Member

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    did you read my post?
     
  16. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    MizDoulos:

    I am keeping this discussion within a discussion ! Where did you get the idea that I accused you or anyone ?

    He may never leave us, as you pointed out with scripture, but "we" can leave him. This is why I pointed out the words from I Corinth. chapter 10 - "Lest "ye" fall".

    I also pointed out earlier that there is a "sin unto death".

    The reason Paul wrote/spoke I Corinth. chapter 10 is because of the warning that is put forth within these verses. Paul was telling the Church, that they also could "fall" from grace.

    Galatians 6:8 "soweth to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption"

    I Corinthians 6:7 - 18

    Ephesians 5:2 thru 7

    Ephesians 5:6 - "Let no man deceive you with vain words : for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience"

    Because of "what things" ? Just read Ephesians 3 thru 5

    "Let no man deceive you" !

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  17. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Hervey, without further explanation of chapter 10, and just your words "lest ye fall," it seemed accusatory. My apologies if that's what you meant.


    Now you've changed the topic to "falling from grace," which is OK, but it has nothing to do with losing one's salvation. As I have quoted Scripture in my earlier post on this thread, God does forgive sin and doesn't remember them any more.

    Hervey, we're not communicating. You've changed the subject and decided not to answer my question of what you'd do with the rest of Scripture quoted in my previous posts (Gal. 4:4-7; Heb. 13:5; Jo. 14:16-18).

    I don't know what "let no man deceive you" has anything to do with our initial discussion of losing one's salvation. I've stated my position and backed them with Scriptures. You haven't addressed those Scriptures yet.

    My position will not be restated again. I respect your differing opinion and hope you respect mine as well.
     
  18. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Psalms 22.3, I don't know who you're addressing, but I have read your post. The "falling away" that you referred to reminds me of Christ's Parable of the Sower in Matt. 13:1-9.

    For those who claim to be Christian at one time and have left the faith for good, these have never been saved, IMHO. There is still hope for them as they certainly have an opportunity to be saved in the future. I have quoted Scripture on my previous posts on this thread regarding the Holy Spirit sealing believers unto redemption, so I'll not repeat them here.

    Good comments, Psalm!
     
  19. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    MizDoulos:

    No , I havn't changed the subject whatsoever. Let me explain if I can, please.

    We were save by grace - Ephesians 2:8 , and to "fall from grace" is to loose one's salvation by grace.

    Our sins of our past "have been" forgiven, but if we willingly want to continue in sin, then we sow corruption, and we shall also reap corruption from what we sow.

    We are not to be deceived; if we continue in sin, then sin is death, and not life eternal. We "were" ( past tense ) cleansed from all unrighteousness, but we still have free will, to walk in righteousness, or unrighteousness. Walking in unrighteousness, is sin, and sin is death - Romans 6:23.

    I Corinthians 15:56 - "The sting of death is sin ; and the strength of sin is the law" -- Because if God didn't call it sin by way of the Law, then it would not be sin. Because sin, is that which is against the will of God.

    James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.<> Death - not eternal life.


    1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

    What this means , is that all sin is death, but some sin can be forgiven after one commits a sin. All they have to do is ask for forgiveness > I John 1:8 thru 10 and I John 2:1 & 2. Although, there is also sin, "unto death",and it can not be prayed for, because this sin is unto "eternal death". "Murder" is one of those sins, that is unto "eternal death" > I John 3:15.

    You see, it is still "free will", which is something we will have forever.

    If "we" choose sin , which is death, over eternal life, then we can loose our salvation which was by "grace" and not of our works, lest any man should boast.

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  20. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Hervey, I have never heard of "losing one's salvation by grace." We are saved by grace through faith as stated in Eph. 2:8. Your statement is new to me and sounds rather odd, IMHO.

    The rest of your statements in your last post is reiterating what has already been stated in past posts on this thread. We are saved once and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto redemption for eternity. (See previous posts for Scripture verses)

    Our position in Christ is perfect, but not our practice. We are not perfect as we all can attest . . . just look at ourselves! This is no mystery and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

    Can you quote any Scriptures that say (in context and divided rightly) we can lose our salvation by grace? This statement is a first to me.
     
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