Can you lose your salvation??

[Ben johnson]

Hi, Julie! In your post #500 just above, you open and close with the same concept:

Start: "When I believed..."

End: "Even to those who believe."

I think that you and I have far more in common than different. We both believe in salvation by grace, through faith. IOW, belief. A special kind of belief, the kind that (because of its reality) causes good deeds, causes humility and repentance, causes growth, THAT BELIEF, and nothing less.

I think our only difference, is interpretation on where that belief comes from. You understand that God bequeaths that belief, I understand that God avails His grace to EVERYONE (calling effectively the WORLD), and those who BELIEVE (from their own heart's conviction) are saved.

If you and I are both true followers of Christ, seeking with all that we are to do His will, then does this difference matter between us?

I don't think it does---do you?

 

[MizDoulos]

Originally posted by s0uljah
MizDoulos-

That isnt all St Paul said, is it?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html#salvation-IV

You can lose your salvation. It is a gift that you can reject at any point before you die. OSAS was invented in the 1500s, along with Sola Scriptura, another false belief.

That's your belief that you can lose your salvation and that Sola Scriptura is a false belief. Obviously, my beliefs differ from yours. We'll have to agree to disagree here. Arguing about this volatile issue will get nowhere and will only lead to disharmony. I respect your beliefs, so please respect mine.

 

[Jephunneh]

If we are unable to save ourselves how then could we keep ourselves saved. I rest in the power of God, through Jesus' death on the cross. He died for all of our sins, not just the ones that we committed before we came to Him. If salvation is something that could be lost then Jesus' death on the cross was insufficient, and eternal life would not be a FREE gift. It would be a gift that we would have to work to keep. We are saved by grace through faith, not by works. If works play any part in our salvation, whether by attaining or keeping then we are not saved by grace. Jesus said He is the Good Shepherd and He gives His sheep eternal life.
If we could lose it then it isn't eternal life.

 

[Jephunneh]

Originally posted by MizDoulos
Every Christian will backslide from time to time because in practice we are not perfect, only in our position in Christ. When we do sin, Christ promised to forgive us and Father God said he would even forget our transgressions. We, as Christians, have been sealed by the Holy Spirit into the family of God. We cannot lose our salvation according to Scripture. People have differing opinions, but the only truth that matters is Scripture.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
(1 Jo. 1:9,10)

"I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake;
And I will not remember your sins."
(Is. 43:25)

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
(Eph. 4:30)

True!

 

[paul soffe]

hervey,
your saying something very prophetic and needs to be heard by the church's.It is true nothing can seperate us from the love of God IN CHRIST JESUS.Unrepented sin in our lives moves out from under the all saving BLOOD OF JESUS.Paul did not include sin in his list of what cannot seperate us from Christ.I don't think Paul was having an off day for such an ' oversight' to occur.Paul was many times warning us and even reminding himself about the need to run the race in such a way that we we arn't disqualified.
This sets our face like flint for Jerusalem and wonderfully liberates us.'The truth will set you free.'..repent daily and others will see in us the Glory of God
Paul

 

[Jephunneh]

Psalm 37
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

You see, there is a difference between falling IN Christ and falling OUT of Christ, just as there is a difference between falling down IN an airplane and falling OUT OF an airplane! Spiritually, we are seated in Heavenly places IN CHRIST, according to Ephesians 2:6, and that's where we'll stay - FOREVER!

 

[Ben johnson]

If we are unable to save ourselves how then could we keep ourselves saved. I rest in the power of God, through Jesus' death on the cross. He died for all of our sins, not just the ones that we committed before we came to Him. If salvation is something that could be lost then Jesus' death on the cross was insufficient, and eternal life would not be a FREE gift. It would be a gift that we would have to work to keep. We are saved by grace through faith, not by works. If works play any part in our salvation, whether by attaining or keeping then we are not saved by grace. Jesus said He is the Good Shepherd and He gives His sheep eternal life.
If we could lose it then it isn't eternal life.

Our salvation is not of us, it is OF CHRIST; entirely, completely, totally. Nothing of us, all of Him. Jesus-on-the-Cross, sufficient and complete.

Received by us.

Think about those three words I just uttered---received by us. "The gift of God is eternal life". The gift is universal in offering---it is to be received or rejected, as each person WILLS. ("Let WHOSOEVER WILL take of the river of life FREELY." Rev22:17) It is a gift---if we do not receive it, it remains with God---and we lose. If we receive it, we are saved---yet the gift is still ENTIRELY OF GOD---nothing of us. We did nothing, we were nothing, we did not earn it nor achieve it---we merely RECEIVED it. It remains, entirely OF GOD.

Our "receiving the gift" (Rom5:17, Jn1:12), is the meaning of all the verses that say, "save YOURSELF".

"By YOUR ENDURANCE you will SAVE YOUR SOULS." Luke21:19"
"...receive as the outcome of YOUR FAITH the salvation of your souls." 1Pet1:9

"Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching, persevere in these things; for as you do this you will SAVE YOURSELVES and all who hear." 1Tim4:16

"THerefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling AND ELECTION of you, for as long as you practice these things you will never STUMBLE (Greek: "Ptaio", become wretched); for in THIS WAY the ENTRANCE (Greek: "Eisodos", GATES) of Heaven will be abundantly provided to you!" 2Pet1:1-11

These (and many more) express our volition in RECEIVING the gift, and ABIDING in Him (abiding in the gift). Thus it is entirely up to us to "KEEP OURSELVES in the love of God, awaiting His mercy TO ETERNAL LIFE" (Jd1:21)

We do not have eternal life, not now; we can POSSESS it, but we do not truly HAVE it; because eternal life is reserved in Heaven FOR us (1Pet1:4). We POSSESS it, inasmuch as we possess CHRIST. "He who HAS the Son, has the life; I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may KNOW you have eternal life." 1Jn5:11-13

We "possess Christ", through BELIEF. Can we DISPOSSESS Him from our lives? YES!!!

"Do not throw away your confidence" (do not throw away CHRIST!) Heb10:35

"KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God, awaiting the mercy of Christ to eternal life." Jd1

"You who seek to AGAIN be justified by law, you are SEVERED FROM CHRIST---you have FALLEN FROM GRACE!" Gal5:4

"Each is tempted when he is carried away by his own lust; then when lust has concieved, it births sin, and sin brings DEATH. DO NOT BE DECEIVED! James1:12-16

"Take care, brethren, lest there be found in any one of you an evil unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God; encourage one another, ...lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hld fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end. THerefore let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any of you should seem to have COME SHORT OF IT."[ Heb3:12-14,4:1

"Although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you holy and blameless and beyond reproach--- IF INEED you CONTINUE in the faith firmly established and steadfast and NOT BE MOVED AWAY FROM JESUS (the HOPE, is JESUS---1Tim1:1)." Col1:21-23

Verse after verse after verse (I've only presented a FRACTION here) presents the GIFT as being ALL OF HIM---but received by US; and ABIDED IN, or NOT. Volition from start to finish.

"IN CHRIST" is through belief, through our own faith; specifically, it is FELLOWSHIP. Plain and simple.

Fellowship is abided-in, or forsaken. Salvation cannot be "lost", but it very much can be FORFEIT---by unbelief.

 

[Jephunneh]

Funny thing is your "Bible" doesn't say the same thing as mine. And I have only checked 2 verses so far....

"...receive as the outcome of YOUR FAITH the salvation of your souls." 1Pet1:9-the ? version?

1 Peter 1
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


"By YOUR ENDURANCE you will SAVE YOUR SOULS." Luke21:19"-Your version

Luke 21
19 In your patience possess ye your souls.



Are you trying to pull the wool over someones eyes?

 

[Ben johnson]

Hi, Jephunneh. Since the original text was in Greek, and since I just HAPPEN to have an "interlinear Greek Bible" handy, I woud be happy to plagiarize I-I-I MEAN, to QUOTE the "literal English". This Interlinear also has King James (in the margin)---and while the KJV is good in some areas, it was translated from the "Textus Receptus"---which has been supplanted in places by better and more historically accurate texts. For example, in Luke 21:36 KJV says "Pray that you may KATIXXIO BE COUNTED WORTHY to escape", while the Greek uses "KATISCHUO HAVE STRENGTH to escape"; and in 2Pet2:18 KJV says "the FALSE seek ti entice the OLIGOS BARELY escaped", while the Greek uses "ONTOS TRULY escaped"...

1Pet1:9: "...receiving the end of-your-faith, [the] savation of-souls-[your]."

Luke21:19: "By your-patient-endurance gain your-souls".

1Tim4:16: "Give-head to-thyself and to-the teaching; continue in-them; for-this doing, both thyself thou-shalt-save and those-that hear the."

2Pet1:10ff: "Wherefore rather, brethren, be-diligent sure your calling and election to-make, for-these-things doing in-no-wise shall-ye-stumble at-any-time. Thus for richly shall-be-supplied to-you the entrance into the eternal kindgdom of-our-Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

 

[Jephunneh]

That's all Greek to me.

 

[Jephunneh]

Did Peter deny Christ?

Did Peter Go to Heaven?

 

[Ben johnson]

Yes Peter did. Jesus seemed genuinely worried about Peter's perseverence---see Jesus' prayer for Peter in Luke 22:31-32. (In John 6:67-70, isn't Jesus specifically saying that even the DISCIPLES can fall away?)

(Especially verse 70...)

 

[Jephunneh]

Remember, there is a difference between falling IN Christ and falling OUT of Christ, just as there is a difference between falling down IN an airplane and falling OUT OF an airplane.

Spiritually, we are seated in Heavenly places IN CHRIST, according to Ephesians 2:6, and that's where we'll stay - FOREVER!



Jude 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

 

[Rize]

Originally posted by MizDoulos
Romans chapter 8:

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written:

"For Your sake we are killed all day
long;
We are accounted as sheep for the
slaughter."

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,

39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We have the assurance of His everlasting love and He has promised never to leave us. What comfort that is to us who belong to Him!

Yes, but this does not say that the believer himself cannot walk away from faith.


Edited for bordering on violating Rule 1 (no flaming). You can discuss the beliefs of others but not be insulting. If you have any comments to make, contact me privately or you will be violating Rule 7. Thank you.

 

[Ben johnson]

Spiritually, we are seated in Heavenly places IN CHRIST, according to Ephesians 2:6, and that's where we'll stay - FOREVER!

"IF INDEED we continue in the faith FIRMLY ESTABLISHED and steadfast and not be moved away from the Hope, Jesus!" Col1:23

Yes, but this does not say that the believer himself cannot walk away from faith.

And are you sure you were ever saved in the first place?

Keep worrying man. Get back with Jesus immediately.

Touche'.

However, worry? Worry is fear---and there is no fear in Love; perfect love casts out fear, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. We love, because He first loved us." 1Jn4

Yet we are to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling." But the next verse clarifies: "For it is GOD who is at work IN you, both to will and to work according to His good purpose."

Salvation is "IN CHRIST".

Salvation is "CHRIST-IN-US"...

 

[ancientofdays33]

Jephunneh,
I think about this often...
So I was wondering if you remember when Jesus (Yeshua) was arisin HE told Mary to tell all his disciples that HE had arisin, and Peter.
Now if that isnt a clear indication that he was not in the club at the time.
Nut I think that Peter rededicated himself to the Lord and followed Jesus's example. Not just good deeds but in Peters mind and body and soul Peter wanted to be like Jesus (Yeshua).

Salvation lost and regained is an even sweeter cup of bitterness.

James Servent to all