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Hello David nice to see you again brother. Some comments for your consideration below.
In the last post when I said you were making an argument no one is making was in reference to where I posted a response to 1 THESSALONIANS 5:23-24 and said..
1 THESSALONIANS 5:23-24 [23], And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [24], Faithful is he that calls you, who also will do it.
Indeed God's promises of salvation is his work in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and are conditional on us continuing to BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD as it is written in JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. Once again, is one who starts off believing and following God's WORD then turns away from God's WORD and is not longer believing and following God's WORD still BELIEVING God's WORD?
Your response to this section of my post was in disagreement stating...
David your post here is an argument that no one is making and is not made in the post you are quoting from. If you do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD then please tell me how can you have a CHANGED HEART and be FORGIVEN when it is FAITH (BELIEVING God's WORD) that allows Gods to fulfill his promises in us? We are to GROW in GRACE as we have received Christ JESUS the LORD we are to walk in Him through the power of His Spirit *COLOSSIANS 2:6; GALATIANS 5:16; 2 CORINTHIANS 5:7 by CONTINUING in His WORD *JOHN 8:31-36. It is CHRISTS WORK in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD that saves us. As stated in the post you are responding to none have salvation without BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD and it is only he that ENDURES TO THE END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD who wil be saved *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; JOHN 8:31-36.
You did not answer my question here brother.
God bless
How can you have regeneration BEFORE FAITH in God's WORD? When faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of GOD? According to the scriptures all of this comes by the WORD of GOD *ROMANS 10:17.Hello again LoveGodsWord, I believe I made the argument in an earlier post in this tread (the "argument" is actually made by God in the Bible, of course). In short, 1. regeneration (necessarily) precedes faith.
In the last post when I said you were making an argument no one is making was in reference to where I posted a response to 1 THESSALONIANS 5:23-24 and said..
1 THESSALONIANS 5:23-24 [23], And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [24], Faithful is he that calls you, who also will do it.
Indeed God's promises of salvation is his work in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and are conditional on us continuing to BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD as it is written in JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. Once again, is one who starts off believing and following God's WORD then turns away from God's WORD and is not longer believing and following God's WORD still BELIEVING God's WORD?
Your response to this section of my post was in disagreement stating...
to which I responded by saying...St_Worm2 said: ↑ No, our continuing to believe and follow Him throughout this life is "conditioned"/made possible because He:
1. changed us at the outset, enabled us to come to saving faith in Jesus, and then justified us, and 2. continues to work powerfully in us to preserve us in the faith, to continually grow us up in Christlikeness (sanctification), and to see to it that we make it safely through this life in Christ so that we can be with Him forever in Glory .. Philippians 1:6; 2:13; Hebrews 7:25.
Outside of the mighty work He did, and now continues to do in us, moment by moment, none could be saved.
David your post here is an argument that no one is making and is not made in the post you are quoting from. If you do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD then please tell me how can you have a CHANGED HEART and be FORGIVEN when it is FAITH (BELIEVING God's WORD) that allows Gods to fulfill his promises in us? We are to GROW in GRACE as we have received Christ JESUS the LORD we are to walk in Him through the power of His Spirit *COLOSSIANS 2:6; GALATIANS 5:16; 2 CORINTHIANS 5:7 by CONTINUING in His WORD *JOHN 8:31-36. It is CHRISTS WORK in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD that saves us. As stated in the post you are responding to none have salvation without BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD and it is only he that ENDURES TO THE END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD who wil be saved *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; JOHN 8:31-36.
You did not answer my question here brother.
No one is saying that we do these works brother this was already stated clearly in an earlier post. It is God who works in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW His WORD. Without JESUS we can do nothing because we are all sinners in need of a Savior *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; MARK 9:23; JOHN 15:1-8; EPHESIANS 2:13. We follow God not to be saved because salvation is a free GIFT. All those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD do so because they LOVE God and have received His Spirit and the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; GALATIANS 5:16And 2. coming to faith in Christ & being saved (necessarily) precedes the things that "accompany" or "result from" our salvation .. like obedience, good works, holy living, etc.
We are 'not' saved because we do those things ~RATHER~ we do those kinds of things because we are (already) saved
On the other hand, all of those things (obedience, good works, holy living) do play a role in our being saved, no because 'we' do them, but because He did did them for us. IOW, we are saved by Jesus' obedience, by His good works, and by His choice to lead a righteous/holy life before His Father .. ON OUR BEHALF
None would be able to come to Christ apart from the mighty work that God does in us first to change us, IOW, apart from the monergistic work that He does in us to quicken/regenerate us & cause us to be born again/to be made alive in Christ (such that we are brought from spiritual death to spiritual life) .. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-5.
He gives us the gift of saving faith (w/o which we would be unable to believe), and He justifies us (declares us just) & saves us, solely on the basis of the obedience and works (the merits) of Another, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
So, we are not saved, nor do we remain saved, because of anything that 'we' do, ever (save believing itself). Rather, we are saved by God's mercy and grace alone, through faith (which again, is a "gift" given by Him to those of us who are His), apart from anything that 'we' choose to do .. e.g. Romans 3:28, 4:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5.
If what we do counts towards our salvation, then we are not saved by grace.
Romans 11
6 If it is by grace, then it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
There is much more but I'd like to stop here and ask you a couple of questions (if that's ok with you?).
The "news" is (and always has been), God is holy and righteous, and if we want to be able to stand in his presence in the age to come, then we need to be just like Him!
There's a problem with that however, and it's known as the "bad news". So my first question is, "what is the bad news"
My 2nd question is, how has our problem, the "bad news", been resolved? IOW, what is the "Good News" (and what makes it "good" news)?
Thanks!
--David
Romans 5 8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us..
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
God bless
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