CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION BY NOT BEING FAITHFUL TO THE END?

[St_Worm2]

JOHN 10:27-28 [27], My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:[28], And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. This links with the other scriptures and indicated that God's Sheep are those who hear the WORD of GOD (Jesus) and follow Him. So if one hears the Word of God and no longer follows it they are no longer following God and have become lost sheep MATTHEW 10:6; LUKE 19:10; LUKE 15:4-6.

Hello again LoveGodsWord, as Jesus told the Pharisees plainly, "You do not believe ~BECAUSE~ you are not my sheep" .. John 10:26. Jesus' sheep have this in common with each other, all of us "hear" His voice, and we "follow" Him, forever, again, because we are His sheep.

Those who "appear" to believe at first, but later choose to walk away from the faith, were ~never~ His sheep/~never~ saved to begin with. That's what the Apostle also labors to make clear to us in 1 John 2:19 (IOW, that those who appeared to be believers at first, but then chose to leave the faith, lost nothing, because they were ~never~ true believers/never Christians from the get-go).

Finally, and again, "eternal" life is ETERNAL (not probationary or conditional life). That's why He is able to both say and promise that He gives "eternal" life to His sheep, and that we will NEVER perish

--David
p.s. - my reply will continue in my next post to you, just FYI.

 

[d taylor]

Hello brother d taylor, thanks for sharing your thoughts here with us brother. I am just wondering if Ananias and Sapphira lied to God and did not confess their sins in repentance and faith and died before doing so where does it say that someone doing these things in God's WORD has not lost their salvation? How do you reconcile the following scriptures.

1 JOHN 1:9, [9] IF we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

PROVERBS 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23
[12], Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13], Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....
[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

ROMANS 6:22 [22], But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.

REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations

2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1 PETER 4:18 [18], And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

REVELATION 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

REVELATION 3:5
He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.

REVELATION 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

REVELATION 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Well these are only a few of many more that can be posted. Look foward to your response.

Thanks for sharing brother look forward to your response

God bless.

Wish i have time to go over each verse.

But i will state this, look back in the Old Testament Saul when he died he did not persevere to the end. he actually consulted a medium and became an enemy of God.
Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy?

But Samuel tells Saul that He will when he dies: And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”

Can only women who have children be saved
Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

The word saved and salvation in the Bible does not always mean eternal life salvation. Many times saved and salvation are connected to a physical salvation from harm, attacks from enemies of (God or Christians). Basically it is a wide variety of situations that each need to studied in light of the context.

 

[BCsenior]

Try living in the moment.. the NOW! Today..

Try believing the NT ... all of it.

I also have a page full of NT verses which teach:
BACs must endure in their faith until death
to finally be awarded eternal life.
Because the NT teaches: salvation is a process!

------------------------------------------------------------
IMO, this resolves the conflict amongst all the NT verses
concerning eternal security, i.e. OSAS ...vs… NO OSAS:
True saving belief = enduring faith-trust-obedience
Those who “follow” Jesus “faithfully” are the BACs who
love Him enough to be “obedient” to His commandments!
------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Try believing the NT ... all of it.

I also have a page full of NT verses which teach:
BACs must endure in their faith until death
to finally be awarded eternal life.
Because the NT teaches: salvation is a process!

------------------------------------------------------------
IMO, this resolves the conflict amongst all the NT verses
concerning eternal security, i.e. OSAS ...vs… NO OSAS:
True saving belief = enduring faith-trust-obedience
Those who “follow” Jesus “faithfully” are the BACs who
love Him enough to be “obedient” to His commandments!
------------------------------------------------------------

That's called putting on the new man, the new creature in Christ and living by the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello brother Jonaitis, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Some comments for your consideration provided below. I might have to break my comments here into a few posts so it is easier to read.

Sure, I'll try to answer each one.
This is a warning to the recipients of this epistle that there are tares among the wheat in the church, and these often show themselves to be so, as they grow up together, by their works. We should also compare Scripture with Scripture, never isolating passages from other places where it speaks more clearly. In the reference you provided, we must compare it with passages like this one: "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother" (1 John. 3:9-10) Whereas in Heb. 10:26-17, people who deliberately sin appear to fall away, this passage above shows that deliberate sinners aren't born again, and that the children of God are evident by their works. This is one example, but we must understand Scripture in light of Scripture where it speaks more clearly on.

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Now if you combine these scriptures with some others you have quoted from which I agree with here as well in 1 JOHN 3:3-10

1 JOHN 3:3-10
[3], And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[5], And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

and also...

1 JOHN 2:1-4. [1], MY LITTLE CHILDREN, THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS . [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

We can see here that it is indeed only those who are BORN AGAIN to LOVE through FAITH in God's WORD that BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD are his people. All those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (up to all the knowledge in their walk with God in any moment) are not his people.

Now the question for consideration comes back to the OP. Can you lose your salvation and can you fall away and stop BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD once you have been BORN AGAIN?

HEBREWS 10:26-27 says, For if WE SIN willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth (Born again), there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The reference here is in the present tense to BELIEVERS not UNBELIEVERS so as you have stated above cannot be referring to the tares.

These same thought are also demonstrated in HEBREWS 6...

HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

So this seems to disagree with what you are suggesting above that a Born again christian cannot lose their salvation if they can receive Gods' Spirit and then choose to no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

Another thing to look at is the context. In that same chapter, we read a little earlier in verse 14 that "by a single offering [Jesus] has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." This looks like an apparent contradiction to verse 26-27 if we take it to mean real believers can fall away; that he perfected his people who have the potential to fall away? Either Christ's offering and sacrifice sufficiently perfects those being sanctified, or that it is actually insufficient so far as that a believer can still fall short of being perfected. If we can fall out of the work of Christ, then we must call his work insufficient to completely save. We would have to call what he did as half the work, because we would have to complete it to remain saved by our works. This again places our salvation based on works.

I am not sure how you think that HEBREWS 10:14 which says [14], For by one offering he has perfected for ever them that are sanctified is a contradiction of v26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins? I do not see this as a seemingly contradiction at all. It is simply saying that JESUS made one offering for ALL SIN to reconcile us to God. In the OLD COVENANT God's people were to provide burn't offereings and sin offerings every time they sinned *LEVITICUS 16. When we look at HEBREWS 10:14 it is simply stating that in the NEW COVENANT Christs death as our sin offering is all that is needed to reconcile us to God.

This is why when we consider what Paul says in HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

HEBREWS 6:4-8 Links in very nicely with this discussion don't you think?

Let's continue to talk about the context, because we read in that same chapter this: "But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls" (v. 39). Wait a minute, why did he say this when he just talked about apostasy among believers? We are not those who shrink back and are destroyed? He gives the reason too for why we aren't those people: "who have faith and preserve their souls." So, even in the context of this passage, real faith preserves the soul from apostasy. Scripture interprets Scripture, amazing isn't it?

The context here is to the BELEIVERS who are BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. Not those who are continuing in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN as shown earlier..

HEBREWS 10:26-27 says, For if WE SIN willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth (Born again), there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The scriptures are not saying that those who PAUL is addressing are willfully sinning so I do not understand your point here brother. However, scripture does interpret scripture brother and it is amazing although I do not get that from your comments of HEBREWS 10:26-27 as shown above unfortunately.

Notice that verse 7-8 speaks of two kinds of people: land that produces useful crops, and land that bears thorns and thistles. This is the most ignored part of this passage when brought up. It was added to show that the description of verse 4-6 speak of the land that produces thorns and thistles, just like the parable of the tares and wheat Jesus spoke about.

The next thing ignored is verse 9 which says thus:

"Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things - things that belong to salvation."

^^so then...4-6 isn't about someone who is saved? Yep. Matter of fact, the inspired writer in verse 10 proves that they aren't such people who apostatizes by reminding them of their good works (remember the land that produces a crop receives a blessing in verse 8?). Scripture interprets Scripture, amazing isn't it?

Once again the scripture says;

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

No one is disagreeing that v7 and v8 are not referring to as a man sows that shall he reap *GALATIONS 6:7 and also that by their fruits you shall know them *MATTHEW 7:16-23. In fact these verses were added to emphasize these points. The question considered here is not so much about the wheat and tares which also have application *MATTHEW 13:24-30 but can a wheat become a tare. This is what HEBREW 10:26-27 and HEBREWS 6:4-8 answers.

Yep as shown in the scripture you are quoting from in God's WORD HEBREWS 6:4-8 shows that a BELIEVER can become an UNBELIVER by turing away from Gods WORD. v4 says these people were ENLIGHTENED and TASTED of the HEAVENLY GIFT and made PARTAKERS of the HOLY GHOST! v6 says that they FELL AWAY and sinned against God and his WORD and needed to REPENT putting God to open SHAME.

Yep seems God's WORD is pretty clear here. BELIEVERS can fall away to become UNBELIEVERS. You are correct brother the scripture does interpret scripture and it is amazing although I do not get that from your comments of HEBREWS 6:4-8 as shown above unfortunately.

More to come.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't so much see the correlation between this and the idea of believers falling away. I'm lead to think that verse 13 was addressed above that our endurance is an evidence of real faith.

MATTHEW 24:13 says; [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

On the contrary brother there is correlation indeed as the scripture from JESUS in his own words state that it is only those who ENDURE TO THE END that shall be saved. This links into the same thoughts expressed already with PAULS writings in HEBREWS 10:26-27 and HEBREWS 6:4-8 that show that a BELIEVER can FALL AWAY and become an UNBELIEVER and no longer be following God's WORD. Scripture interprets Scripture, amazing isn't it?

Same as Matt. 24:13 above.

MARK 13:13 says; [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

This scripture also links nicely to the parable of the sower...

MATTHEW 13:20-21 [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; [21], Yet has he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution rises because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Yep lot's of correlation here brother. The scriptures from JESUS in his own words state that it is only those who ENDURE TO THE END that shall be saved and in this case many can fall away because of persecution and tribulation. This links into the same thoughts expressed already with PAULS writings in HEBREWS 10:26-27 and HEBREWS 6:4-8 that show that a BELIEVER can FALL AWAY and become an UNBELIEVER and no longer be following God's WORD. Scripture interprets Scripture, amazing isn't it?

Notice the way the inspired writer phrases verse 14: "For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end." Our perseverance is evidence of our share in Christ is what I am seeing here.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

Not sure what you are seeing here brother but what I am seeing here is a theme as demonstrated with all the other scriptures provided that show that our salvation is conditional on BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD to the END and that it is possible to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and FALL AWAY from it anywhere from when we RECEIVE God's WORD until the END as demonstrated already in HEBREWS 10; HEBREWS 6. HEBREWS 3:13-14 is once again linking with all the scriptures provided showing that our salvation is CONDITIONAL on BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD till the END v13-14 we are made pratakers of Christ (Condition) IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST TO THE END. Yep scripture interprets the scriptures alright.

Same thing as above, he uses the same wording "if indeed..."

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

You did not address this scripture brother as shown in the previous section. However can you see nice links being provided that show the scriptures interpreting the scriptures? According to God's WORD our salvation is CONDITIONAL on us BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD until the END. It is possible to fall away before the END by returning to SIN and also by false teachings.

2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3
[1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

God's WORD is amazing isn't it?

Actually, this parable affirms that there are many professors who aren't really in the faith. If the ground is our hearts and the word of God is the seed being sown, wouldn't that mean there are certain people already prepared to receive the word under these different instances? It isn't saying that the ground changes its environment, which seem to be what you are suggesting. Rather, the ground determines how the seed will grow, doesn't it? So too, if the seed is sown in the right ground, it will produce in the right way. This actually affirms that there will be people who don't receive the word right in order to become a useful plant that bears fruit for salvation.

MATTHEW 13:18-23 says [18], Hear you therefore the parable of the sower.
[19], When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then comes the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; [21], Yet has he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution rises because of the word, by and by he is offended. [22], He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.[23], But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundred times, some sixty, some thirty.

Not really brother as shown above in v20 and v22 those people received God's WORD and rejoiced but latter departed from God's WORD because they did not LOVE God's WORD and FELL AWAY because of persecution, tribulation, riches and cares of this world. This is demonstrating what has already been provided in the scriptures that a BELIEVER can become an UNBELIEVER and our salvation in CONDITIONAL on CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27 etc etc.

A call for perseverance as mentioned already above.

Why is there a call for perserverance of to CONTINUE to the END if we cannot fall away in your view? As God's WORD shows it is because we can FALL AWAY that God's WORD says that only those who ENDURE TO THE END THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED *MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23

God's WORD is amazing isn't it? Thanks for sharing brother

God bless.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

According to God's WORD, it is only those that are faithful to the end that will be saved. What does this mean?

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23
[12], Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13], Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....
[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

ROMANS 6:22 [22], But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.

REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations

2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1 PETER 4:18 [18], And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

According to God's WORD salvation is for those who "continue in the faith" (Colossians 1:23). Those who do not "give place to the devil" (Ephesians 4:27), will not grieve the Spirit by believing the lie that they may not cease to endure to the end. "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (4:30). Not only is it necessary for the Saints to endure or persevere to the end; but at the same time, both the Father and the Son have promised to preserve those who "continue in the faith". "28 And I give unto them Eternal Life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. 29 My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). This relationship where the Saints Endure While God Preserves was best expressed by the LORD Jesus: "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work" (John 5:17).

Questions for discussion;

1. Can we lose our salvation?

2. What does it mean only those that are faithful to the end will be saved?

3. Saved from what?

4. Is anyone saved while living in a life of known unrepentant sin?

Only friendly discussion please and please provide scriptures for your claims.

God bless.

Being faithful means you still consider Jesus Christ of Nazareth your King.

"My sheep know my voice." Jesus Christ of Nazareth
Blessings

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

MATTHEW 24:13 says; [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

On the contrary brother there is correlation indeed as the scripture from JESUS in his own words state that it is only those who ENDURE TO THE END that shall be saved. This links into the same thoughts expressed already with PAULS writings in HEBREWS 10:26-27 and HEBREWS 6:4-8 that show that a BELIEVER can FALL AWAY and become an UNBELIEVER and no longer be following God's WORD. Scripture interprets Scripture, amazing isn't it?

MARK 13:13 says; [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

This scripture also links nicely to the parable of the sower...

MATTHEW 13:20-21 [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; [21], Yet has he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution rises because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Yep lot's of correlation here brother. The scriptures from JESUS in his own words state that it is only those who ENDURE TO THE END that shall be saved and in this case many can fall away because of persecution and tribulation. This links into the same thoughts expressed already with PAULS writings in HEBREWS 10:26-27 and HEBREWS 6:4-8 that show that a BELIEVER can FALL AWAY and become an UNBELIEVER and no longer be following God's WORD. Scripture interprets Scripture, amazing isn't it?

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

Not sure what you are seeing here brother but what I am seeing here is a theme as demonstrated with all the other scriptures provided that show that our salvation is conditional on BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD to the END and that it is possible to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and FALL AWAY from it anywhere from when we RECEIVE God's WORD until the END as demonstrated already in HEBREWS 10; HEBREWS 6. HEBREWS3:13-14 is once again linking with all the scriptures provided showing that our salvation is CONDITIONAL on BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD till the END v13-14 we are made pratakers of Christ (Condition) IF WE HOLD THE BEGINNING OF OUR CONFIDENCE STEADFAST TO THE END. Yep scripture interprets the scriptures alright.

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

You did not address this scripture brother as shown in the previous section. However can you see nice links being provided that show the scriptures interpreting the scriptures? According to God's WORD our salvation is CONDITIONAL on us BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD until the END. It is possible to fall away before the END by returning to SIN and also by false teachings.

2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3
[1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

God's WORD is amazing isn't it?

MATTHEW 13:18-23 says [18], Hear you therefore the parable of the sower.
[19], When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then comes the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; [21], Yet has he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution rises because of the word, by and by he is offended. [22], He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.[23], But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundred times, some sixty, some thirty.

Not really brother as shown above in v20 and v22 those people received God's WORD and rejoiced but latter departed from God's WORD because they did not LOVE God's WORD and FELL AWAY because of persecution, tribulation, riches and cares of this world. This is demonstrating what has already been provided in the scriptures that a BELIEVER can become an UNBELIEVER and our salvation in CONDITIONAL on CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27 etc etc.

Why is there a call for perserverance of to CONTINUE to the END if we cannot fall away in your view? As God's WORD shows it is because we can FALL AWAY that God's WORD says that only those who ENDURE TO THE END THE SAME SHALL BE SAVED *MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23

God's WORD is amazing isn't it? Thanks for sharing brother

God bless.

Sounds like you are trying to spruce up the old man instead of putting on the new man who has no sin.

 

[St_Worm2]

1 THESSALONIANS 5:23-24 - Indeed God's promises of salvation is his work in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and are conditional on us continuing to BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD

No, our continuing to believe and follow Him throughout this life is "conditioned"/made possible because He:

1. changed us at the outset, enabled us to come to saving faith in Jesus, and then justified us, and

2. continues to work powerfully in us to preserve us in the faith, to continually grow us up in Christlikeness (sanctification), and to see to it that we make it safely through this life in Christ so that we can be with Him forever in Glory .. Philippians 1:6; 2:13; Hebrews 7:25.​

Outside of the mighty work He did, and now continues to do in us, moment by moment, none could be saved.

What does God's WORD say in response to question 4 HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8?

Those two passages concern 1st Century Jewish ~almost~ Christians, who "tasted" the good things of God in church and were "enlightened"/understood who Jesus was (as well their need to receive Him as their Lord and Savior) but, in the end, chose to continue in their rejection of Him as such anyway. For them, as well the ~MANY~ like them since (whether they be Jewish or Gentile), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES .. Hebrews 10:26-27.

Those who are truly saved demonstrate/verify/prove/justify .. cf James 2:18, 24 their claim of being a Christian in large part by the way they choose to lead their lives after making that "claim".

On the other hand, those who: "go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth", prove by what they do that they were NEVER saved in the first place

True Christians "act" like Christians (albeit, not perfectly in this life). Non-Christians may act like Christians do for a time or even a season, but in the end, they too will "act" in accord with who they really are!

How do you read 1 JOHN 3:3-10 and 1 JOHN 2:1-4?

I read those two passages together like this, that true Christians can/do sin, but we will not continue in nor return quickly to living a life/lifestyle of unrepentant sin to the end. IOW, we who have become His no longer make a ~practice~ or "lifestyle" of sinning and not repenting (like we did before we became believers).

Also, when we do sin, we need to repent & ask God to forgive us .. and we know that He will, because He promised us that we would .. 1 John 1:9, and because we know that we have an Advocate before the Father in Heaven who is always for us, even now .. 1 John 2:1-2

--David

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Therefore repentance from sin is for those who are not converted and under the Law. They have a visitation experience like those in the Old Testament. Truly converted believers have a habitation experience where the Holy Spirit dwells right inside of them and does not come and go.

REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13, CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 and FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4 in the NEW COVENANT are all requirement for salvation. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13. We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23. According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.

So, if you are persisting on telling believers that they must repent from sin, you are treating them as Old Testament believers under the Law, instead of new creatures in Christ. If that is what you are doing, you could be in unbelief, not believing the Scripture: "If any man is in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new".

According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT, SIN is the transgression of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) and through the LAW we have the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11. No one is "UNDER THE LAW" if they have by God's GRACE repented of their SINS and CONFESSED them and by FAITH Accepted the FREE GIFT of God's SALVATION *ACTS 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 1 JOHN 1:9; EPHESIANS 2:13. According to God's WORD it is only those who are CONINUING in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN that are "UNDER THE LAW" because they stand guilty before God of breaking it *ROMANS 3:19 and do not know God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2;1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD through love. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sounds like you are trying to spruce up the old man instead of putting on the new man who has no sin.

Not at all. It is only those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *JAMES 2:10-11 who are living the life in the OLD MAN.

ROMANS 6:6-15
[6], Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin.
[7], For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[8], Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], For in that he died, he died to sin once: but in that he lives, he lives to God.
[11], Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12], Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13], Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin: but yield yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[14], For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
[15], What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Being faithful means you still consider Jesus Christ of Nazareth your King.
"My sheep know my voice." Jesus Christ of Nazareth
Blessings

Indeed, Maria thanks for sharing. If JESUS is our KING we will BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. This is what makes JESUS the KING in our lives. Good point thanks for sharing

God bless.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not at all. It is only those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *JAMES 2:10-11 who living the life in the OLD MAN.

ROMANS 6:6-15
[6], Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin.
[7], For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[8], Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9], Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more; death has no more dominion over him.
[10], For in that he died, he died to sin once: but in that he lives, he lives to God.
[11], Likewise reckon you also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12], Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13], Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin: but yield yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[14], For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
[15], What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Hope this helps.

The point is that the genuinely converted Christian will not continue in unconfessed sin. because he is a new creature in Christ. Therefore your comments, Upper and lower case, and Scripture quotes are not for them, but directed at Christian professing hypocrites who have not entered through the narrow gate of heart commitment to Christ. No amount of Bible bashing in capital letters is ever going to convince me otherwise.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello brother David, thanks for posting your thoughts here. Some comments below for your consideration.

No, our continuing to believe and follow Him throughout this life is "conditioned"/made possible because He:
1. changed us at the outset, enabled us to come to saving faith in Jesus, and then justified us, and 2. continues to work powerfully in us to preserve us in the faith, to continually grow us up in Christlikeness (sanctification), and to see to it that we make it safely through this life in Christ so that we can be with Him forever in Glory .. Philippians 1:6; 2:13; Hebrews 7:25.
Outside of the mighty work He did, and now continues to do in us, moment by moment, none could be saved.

David your post here is an argument that no one is making and is not made in the post you are quoting from. If you do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD then please tell me how can you have a CHANGED HEART and be FORGIVEN when it is FAITH (BELIEVING God's WORD) that allows Gods to fulfill his promises in us? We are to GROW in GRACE as we have received Christ JESUS the LORD we are to walk in Him through the power of His Spirit *COLOSSIANS 2:6; GALATIANS 5:16; 2 CORINTHIANS 5:7 by CONTINUING in His WORD *JOHN 8:31-36. It is CHRISTS WORK in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD that saves us. As stated in the post you are responding to none have salvation without BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD and it is only he that ENDURES TO THE END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD who wil be saved *PHILIPPIANS 2:13; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; JOHN 8:31-36.

Those two passages concern 1st Century Jewish ~almost~ Christians, who "tasted" the good things of God in church and were "enlightened"/understood who Jesus was (as well their need to receive Him as their Lord and Savior) but, in the end, chose to continue in their rejection of Him as such anyway. For them, as well the ~MANY~ like them since (whether they be Jewish or Gentile), there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES .. Hebrews 10:26-27.

In reference to HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8

Yea I do not get that brother and your claims that these passages were written for people in the past. God's WORD says...

2 TIMOTHY 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD AND IS PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, FOR REPROOF and INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTOUESNESS.

MATTHEW 4:4 Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD

1 CORINTHIANS 10:11 NOW ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENED UNTO THEM FOR EXAMPLES: AND ARE WRITTEN FOR OUR ADMONITION ON WHOM THE END OF THE WORLD HAS COME.

Those who are truly saved demonstrate/verify/prove/justify .. cf James 2:18, 24 their claim of being a Christian in large part by the way they choose to lead their lives after making that "claim". On the other hand, those who: "go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth", prove by what they do that they were NEVER saved in the first place
True Christians "act" like Christians (albeit, not perfectly in this life). Non-Christians may act like Christians do for a time or even a season, but in the end, they too will "act" in accord with who they really are! I read those two passages together like this, that true Christians can/do sin, but we will not continue in nor return quickly to living a life/lifestyle of unrepentant sin to the end. IOW, we who have become His no longer make a ~practice~ or "lifestyle" of sinning and not repenting (like we did before we became believers).

Also, when we do sin, we need to repent & ask God to forgive us .. and we know that He will, because He promised us that we would .. 1 John 1:9, and because we know that we have an Advocate before the Father in Heaven who is always for us, even now .. 1 John 2:1-2
--David

While I generally agree with much that you have posted here brother, I think your missing the point of the scriptures already posted and that is that God's WORD shows that it is only those who ENDURE TO THE END by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING Gods WORD that are saved and anyone can DEPART FROM THE FAITH by choosing to no longer BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1. This is why we are admonished to ENDURE TO THE END **JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

Thanks for sharing brother

God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The point is that the genuinely converted Christian will not continue in unconfessed sin. because he is a new creature in Christ. Therefore your comments, Upper and lower case, and Scripture quotes are not for them, but directed at Christian professing hypocrites who have not entered through the narrow gate of heart commitment to Christ. No amount of Bible bashing in capital letters is ever going to convince me otherwise.

Indeed brother agreed. The point that I was making however through the scriptures provided was that we can be a genuine BELIEVER and depart from the faith by no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. According to God's WORD it is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23. According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1; JOHN 8:31-36.

God bless

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Indeed brother agreed. The point that I was making however through the scriptures provided was that we can be a genuine BELIEVER and depart from the faith by no longer BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. According to God's WORD it is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23. According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1; JOHN 8:31-36.

God bless

Well, I don't know about you, but I received Christ as my Saviour 52 years ago in late 1966, and for all those years, I never considered going back on my faith in Christ even during the darkest times in the storm and stress years of my life when the Holy Spirit had to carry me through. When it seemed that I was starting the stray, the Holy Spirit got on my case and got me back on track.

There was a time when God gave me a choice - choose to be in a situation where I would not be living right for God, or choosing to go somewhere I did not know anyone, did not know where I was going to live, or whether I had any future once I got there. He said that if I chose the former He would not be with me. I immediately responded by saying, it is no real choice because I would never want to go anywhere you would not want to go with me. The very next day I was on the train to the new city, and found God waiting for me when I got there.

This showed me that I would always want to choose for Christ no matter what, because I am a new man in Christ. The old man with his sins and rebellion against God died on the cross with Jesus and no longer has any influence on my life of faith with God.

I wonder if those who are making such a big deal about repenting of sin to keep them out of hell, are being tricked by a lying spirit into believing that they could backslide, and they are constantly living in fear of it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I wonder if those who are making such a big deal about repenting of sin to keep them out of hell, are being tricked by a lying spirit into believing that they could backslide, and they are constantly living in fear of it.

The only lying Spirit is one that does not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *1 JOHN 2:3-4. Only God's WORD is true then we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the teachings and traditions of men that seek to break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5 :29; MATTHEW 15:3-9.

 

[Neogaia777]

According to God's WORD, it is only those that are faithful to the end that will be saved. What does this mean?

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23
[12], Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13], Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....
[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

ROMANS 6:22 [22], But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.

REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations

2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

1 PETER 4:18 [18], And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

According to God's WORD salvation is for those who "continue in the faith" (Colossians 1:23). Those who do not "give place to the devil" (Ephesians 4:27), will not grieve the Spirit by believing the lie that they may not cease to endure to the end. "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (4:30). Not only is it necessary for the Saints to endure or persevere to the end; but at the same time, both the Father and the Son have promised to preserve those who "continue in the faith". "28 And I give unto them Eternal Life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. 29 My Father, which gave them Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand" (John 10:28-29). This relationship where the Saints Endure While God Preserves was best expressed by the LORD Jesus: "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work" (John 5:17).

Questions for discussion;

1. Can we lose our salvation?

2. What does it mean only those that are faithful to the end will be saved?

3. Saved from what?

4. Is anyone saved while living in a life of known unrepentant sin?

Only friendly discussion please and please provide scriptures for your claims.

God bless.

Faithful to whom...? and to what exactly...? and then I like how you tie that into being sinless also, which is impossible, and I don't think is about the right "who", or "what"...?

The minute you think you don't sin anymore or are not a sinner anymore, something changes in you, and it's not pretty, and you actually are still a sinner and do sin, but now only think that you are not, and how that somehow separates you from other unholy, unrighteous "sinners", and having and what comes with that mentality, ect...

The change is not good at at all, and is actually very ugly and evil, though not always on the surface appearing to be that way of course...

Your really trying to find or make a loophole for yourself to say and declare yourself "not guilty" in any kind of way as well, which is, well...?

Look, If you do not see how the "works of", especially the letter of the law, breeds the worst kinds of evil, then you are blind and do not see...

Those that love to promote the idea that you are not saved, just and by only "God's" Grace, (not your own) alone", because that's just not possible, is the greatest apostasy and biggest heresy, and spits in the face of Christ, God, and True Christianity, which is 100% totally and completely in line with NT teachings and what the early church believed and thought at the time also (about these kinds of things)...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The Works of the Law are Man's Works, (ways, teachings, ect)... Not God's...

For apart from man, God's ways (works, ect) are holy and right and good, and just and truly righteous, but, not with man involved... for man twists it and perverts it until the Laws true meaning and intent is all but gone, and completely lost on everyone, because he thinks it is about him, basically, is what it comes down to, when it is not, not hardly at all... Technically, God's real Law cannot be written down and expressed in writing, but has to be communicated in other ways, perhaps by the Spirit of God... Which is why the letter is dying and is passing away, as it was meant to (be) (or do) after a time...

God Bless!

 

[St_Worm2]

...your post here is an argument that no one is making and is not made in the post you are quoting from.

Hello again LoveGodsWord, I believe I made the argument in an earlier post in this tread (the "argument" is actually made by God in the Bible, of course). In short, 1. regeneration (necessarily) precedes faith.

And 2. coming to faith in Christ & being saved (necessarily) precedes the things that "accompany" or "result from" our salvation .. like obedience, good works, holy living, etc.

We are 'not' saved because we do those things ~RATHER~ we do those kinds of things because we are (already) saved

On the other hand, all of those things (obedience, good works, holy living) do play a role in our being saved, no because 'we' do them, but because He did did them for us. IOW, we are saved by Jesus' obedience, by His good works, and by His choice to lead a righteous/holy life before His Father .. ON OUR BEHALF

None would be able to come to Christ apart from the mighty work that God does in us first to change us, IOW, apart from the monergistic work that He does in us to quicken/regenerate us & cause us to be born again/to be made alive in Christ (such that we are brought from spiritual death to spiritual life) .. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-5.

He gives us the gift of saving faith (w/o which we would be unable to believe), and He justifies us (declares us just) & saves us, solely on the basis of the obedience and works (the merits) of Another, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

So, we are not saved, nor do we remain saved, because of anything that 'we' do, ever (save believing itself). Rather, we are saved by God's mercy and grace alone, through faith (which again, is a "gift" given by Him to those of us who are His), apart from anything that 'we' choose to do .. e.g. Romans 3:28, 4:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5.

If what we do counts towards our salvation, then we are not saved by grace.

Romans 11
6 If it is by grace, then it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace.​

There is much more but I'd like to stop here and ask you a couple of questions (if that's ok with you?).

The "news" is (and always has been), God is holy and righteous, and if we want to be able to stand in his presence in the age to come, then we need to be just like Him!

There's a problem with that however, and it's known as the "bad news". So my first question is, "what is the bad news"

My 2nd question is, how has our problem, the "bad news", been resolved? IOW, what is the "Good News" (and what makes it "good" news)?

Thanks!

--David

Romans 5
8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.​

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