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Featured Can Angels sin?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by he-man, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    What do you make of these:

    Matthew 25
    41 Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.​

    Revelation 12
    7 There was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
    8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
    9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
    --David
     
  2. mukk_in

    mukk_in Yankees Fan Supporter

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    l-QUOTE="he-man, post: 71787205, member: 271484"]Since God created everything can He be accused of creating bad? Psalms 148:1-2[/QUOTE]
    Apparently. Satan and the fallen angels had sinned (2 Peter 2:4). No, the Lord hadn't ill-created. He just created them with free will. Peace in Christ :).
     
  3. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Worm,

    Some extreme Calvinists would say some angels were predestined by God to be damned. This is how it is stated by The Westminster Confession of Faith, a well-known standard of the Calvinistic Reformed position:

    "God has predestined and foreordained some men and angels to everlasting life out of His free grace and love without any foresight of faith or works in man or perseverance in either of them, and others are foreordained to everlasting death and the number of either is so certain and definite that it cannot be increased or diminished." (Chap. III, art. 3,4 &5; Chap. X, art. 2).
    Oz
     
  4. jaison jose

    jaison jose Member

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    God created things creatures and gave the creatures free will .....they can sin as lucifer did and was thrown down ...God cannot be accused of bad ....darkness is lack of light same way if there is anything bad it in not of God and neither can he be accused of it. He is all loving but after death only pure can be in heaven human body is in imperfection therefore God forgives us when we sin in human state but after death in spirit only like angels who have full knowledge and still they stand against God they are thrown out
    so yes angels can sin ....
     
  5. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi Oz, Biblically, God predestines to everlasting 'life' only. The excerpt from the WCC that you've given us above doesn't appear to go beyond that (by saying something about Divine predestination that the Bible does not). Divine predestination and Divine foreordination are not the same thing.

    Yours and His,
    David
     
  6. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Sin in man causes death.. And being cast into the Lake of fire is called the second death.. Satan being the former Angel Lucifer will be cast into the Eternal lake of fire.. So Angels can and do sin..
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  7. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    I believe, yes angels are capable of sin. Lucifer sinned when he went against God and became the Devil. Not to mention half of the angels he convinced to join him. Angels just voluntarily choose not to sin because they love and worship God so much.
     
  8. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Oh and i forgot to add the following verse about sinning Angels in the Bible::

    Jude 1: KJV
    5 "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. {6} And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
     
  9. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

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    since the beginninglessness of time the true God has never created anything bad, nor will He anytime in future during the course of endless time, also, since the beginning of this eternity none of the Holy Heavenly Angels has ever fallen from the "Heaven", nor will any of Them fall from there (at least not until the end of the current eternity) - when it comes to such angels, They can't/don't sin the way sinners among humans have sinned, but some of them might miss saving certain people/souls, which leads them to lower positions in the "heaven" for the next eternity - this is the way such angels (can) fall...

    Blessings
     
  10. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Read Genesis 6:4 it says they were men and not angels. Psalms 82:6-7 says they are men and shall fall like princes all rulers of the earth shall die and be laid to rest in the dust.
     
  11. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Thanks, but I do not see any references for your ideas. Angels cannot make mistakes, otherwise they would not be obeying what God commanded.
     
  12. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    If the Frankenstein monster had no free will, then how was Mary Shelly able to pronounce it a villain?

    If angels can arbitrarily change their "free will" and rebel, then, over the course of eternity, it is inevitable that all will eventually fall. If we are to become like the angels, as Christ said, then we are all ultimately doomed to Hell. There's no getting around that one. I don't trust my free will against an infinite timespan.

    That's meaningless. Biblically, God is omniscient and omnipotent. Whatever he doesn't predestine to life is predestined to death. If you're driving your car down the highway and you take your hands off the wheel and let the car do its own thing, you might as well steer it directly off of the road. Either way, you're wrecking the car.

    Bad is a relative term. I like to think that tapeworms, viruses, cockroaches and ringworm are all bad. I also don't think those things engineered themselves. I don't think Satan is smart enough to have been able to make those things, and I don't think that anything could have come into existence if God hadn't started it all at the beginning. (Isaiah 47:7)
     
  13. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    Genesis 6:4 says that the Nephilim were men. The Nephilim were a result of the Sons of God having sexual relations with women. The Sons of God are divine beings. When it says "Nephilim" and "Sons of God", it's talking about 2 different things. The Scripture is not equating them.

    Psalm 82:6-7 plainly says "ye are gods, sons of the Most High, but you will die like men". Psalm 82 is about a group of divine beings called the Sons of God.

    This is a clear indication that the speaker is not talking to human beings, but rather divine beings, that we commonly refer to as angels.

    The sons of God rebelled and lost their immortality, so to speak, thus they were sentenced to death: Psalms 82:6-7
     
  14. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Your argument is null and void, since the is no lucifer.
     
  15. Newlyrestoredgospel777

    Newlyrestoredgospel777 Member

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    1 John 1:
    5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    The First Light in the world was the LAW. The LAW was the first light in the world. Therefore darkness is evil. So according to Apostle John, GOD is light and in HIM there is no darkness at all. This means there is no Evil in HIM. So how can we say that HE created evil? thankfully, Apostle John said this:

    John 1:
    3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    Therefore, GOD did not create evil. Evil is the product of reproduce. Evil is a product of the fall which leads to death not as a punishment, but as the consequence for being mortal. For if you spell Evil backwards, you get LIVE.
     
  16. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

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    have you ever taken into consideration and account the fact that if the true God created any thing bad, then He would not be able to be the true God, because many human beings, including angels, would be able to accuse/judge Him for being evil?!, or if you abandon even one of your children alone in the middle of a vast jungle where there are hunting beasts/predators everywhere, and take no more care of them, then won't not only they but also many other people be able to quite rightly call you unworthy of being a parent, and even to accuse/sue you for a crime?!, so the true God cannot afford to put humans in a world full of evil spirits created by Him...

    Blessings
     
  17. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

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    i don't say the Holy Heavenly Angels sin, what i said without accusing/condemning any of Them was that some of Them might miss taking full (enough) care of certain people - for example, has there been full salvation for every person since the day of the Fall?!, but you know that there have been many people that ridiculously suffered and untimely died, and i don't say that the Holy Heavenly Angles have sinned...

    Blessings
     
  18. RGW00

    RGW00 Member

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    I think He allowed an angel to fall (Lucifer) to begin His creation. Anything in Heaven doesn't sin, even Satan technically did not sin in Heaven. He had free will which was given to him, only when he fell out of Heaven did he experience sin. How I think about it is that Lucifer probably didn't agree with God's overall plan, kind of like how a soldier rebels against a king. Don't hold me to this, I haven't done enough research on this, but Satan may not have seeked sin until after he fell from Heaven, he probably just hated God so much that he wanted to develop his own plan. And this opposite plan being sin, and everything God isn't.

    Since then, God has never claimed to allow angels to do this, I think every other angel wants to serve Him honestly, because they see Him as just and fair. For someone to rebel from paradise is the most foolish thing someone could do. God allowed Lucifer to rebel because He wanted to develop His creation, and He knew that Lucifer would be the reason his Creation would fall. I do think God honors us more than His angels, mainly because we are created in His image, angels are never said to be.
     
  19. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Some say that Isaiah 14:12 is about the "devil". Now the context of the verse and a bit of knowlege of History rebveils that this is about the Babylonian empire. Reading verse 4 it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation being spoken of here. While this mythological information is available today vis translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readiy available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible. Thus early Christian tradition interpreted it as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition. The idea that there could possibly be anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be considered overly polythestic, you are setting the devil up to be a god or demigod.[/U][/B][www.wiki.com]
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  20. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    James 1:14
     
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