Can Amil prove with Scripture that the beast is in the pit during the thousand years?

[DavidPT]

Did God breathe life into all the animals? Verse please. Becoming a living soul is who you are. You are not a body, but a soul.

In Matthew 10:28 Jesus made it crystal clear that humans have a body and soul and that they are not the same thing. Unless a person believes that soul sleep is Biblical, it is a person's soul that goes some place upon death, not their body.

 

[eclipsenow]

Did God breathe life into all the animals? Verse please. Becoming a living soul is who you are. You are not a body, but a soul.

Screensnap from Bible Project.
To be a body is to BE a soul - a 'throat' - a person.
Saying "You are not a body, you are a soul" is like saying "you are not a homo sapiens, you are a human being." It makes no sense, and it plays into extremely unChristian Gnostic thought.

 

[YeshuaFan]

In Matthew 10:28 Jesus made it crystal clear that humans have a body and soul and that they are not the same thing. Unless a person believes that soul sleep is Biblical, it is a person's soul that goes some place upon death, not their body.

It would also mean all babies who died in the womb were just blobs!

 

[eclipsenow]

It would also mean all babies who died in the womb were just blobs!

Soul sleep is complicated - but a lot of professional theologians I know are starting to say that human nature as expressed in the bible seems to indicate that we might indeed just wake up on the Last Day. Either way, I just want to be with the Lord when I die.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Soul sleep is complicated - but a lot of professional theologians I know are starting to say that human nature as expressed in the bible seems to indicate that we might indeed just wake up on the Last Day. Either way, I just want to be with the Lord when I die.

paul woke up right after head was chopped off, with Lord jesus in heaven!

 

[eclipsenow]

paul woke up right after head was chopped off, with Lord jesus in heaven!

And you know that how? What about his body - which will be raised on the Last Day?

 

[DavidPT]

Soul sleep is complicated - but a lot of professional theologians I know are starting to say that human nature as expressed in the bible seems to indicate that we might indeed just wake up on the Last Day. Either way, I just want to be with the Lord when I die.

Are any of those professional theologians Amils? How does that work out with the thousand year reign and Amil, is what I'm getting at? Don't most Amils believe that when a saved person dies they then go to heaven and continue the thousand year reign there?

On a different note, I often get accused by some Amils in here as to misrepresenting Amil. How is it even possible to misrepresent a view that not everyone views in the same way? Who is in charge of what Amils believe or don't believe to begin with? These same Amils that at times accuse me of misrepresenting Amil? They are the spokespersons for the Amil view and that only their view of Amil is the correct view? If one Amil believes that when a saved person dies, they go to heaven and finish reigning a thousand years there, and another Amil believes saved saints simply wake up on the Last Day, which Amil should one believe?

 

[eclipsenow]

Are any of those professional theologians Amils?

The ones I know are.

How does that work out with the thousand year reign and Amil, is what I'm getting at? Don't most Amils believe that when a saved person dies they then go to heaven and continue the thousand year reign there?

Of course - great question!
In a similar line of thought, Paul describes dying as being "with the Lord."
Soul-sleep theologians I know say these are both symbolic of our actual safety in the eternal security of the mind of God. Either way is immediate from a subjective point of view. Indeed, more immediate than the sensations of going to sleep at night and waking up in the morning.

On a different note, I often get accused by some Amils in here as to misrepresenting Amil. How is it even possible to misrepresent a view that not everyone views in the same way? Who is in charge of what Amils believe or don't believe to begin with? These same Amils that at times accuse me of misrepresenting Amil? They are the spokespersons for the Amil view and that only their view of Amil is the correct view? If one Amil believes that when a saved person dies, they go to heaven and finish reigning a thousand years there, and another Amil believes saved saints simply wake up on the Last Day, which Amil should one believe?

They both believe pretty much the same things as each other regarding the Millennium being "the gazillion years" as used in the Old Testament. But what you are describing is a more subtle difference in the theology of death - not the Millennium. I know people I respect from both sides - and I myself oscillate between one view and the other now and then. It's not a salvation issue - and in some ways is not that important.

 

[YeshuaFan]

And you know that how? What about his body - which will be raised on the Last Day?

Absent from the body, right now prersent with the Lord, awaiting time of the physical resurrection of the body still!

 

[eclipsenow]

Absent from the body, right now prersent with the Lord, awaiting time of the physical resurrection of the body still!

But what does 'with the Lord' really mean?
I'm not saying I know - I'm saying I know much more informed people than me that thing to be human is to BE a nephesh.

 

[jeffweedaman]

Who is in charge of what Amils believe or don't believe to begin with?

As far as I am concerned....,
Jesus defines the Amill position in what he taught about his coming.

If one was to list all of Jesus teaching on the subject, a pattern emerges that gives birth to Amill thought.

 

[Earburner]

Did God breathe life into all the animals? Verse please. Becoming a living soul is who you are. You are not a body, but a soul.

1. Does God still breathe into all human babies at birth?
2. We all know who we are, because of our consciousness through our fleshly brain.
3. As long as I breathe oxygenated air, that combination of flesh and an oxygenated blood supply is true.

However, should my lungs cease to function, oxygen is no longer made available to my blood supply, of which carries that oxygen to all the different living cells and organs within me.
The first noticeable organ that begins to starve and crave oxygen, is my brain. If it does not receive oxygen from my blood supply, in a very short amount of time, the cells in my brain begin to die, whereby I shall lose my consciousness, which is the first stage of death in being a living soul.

 

[Earburner]

Who is in charge of what Amils believe or don't believe to begin with?

God's Holy Spirit is in charge, as to how Amils believe. Zechariah 4:6, John 16:13, Romans 8:9.

1 Corinthians 2:5-16
Therefore, as verse 5 declares: "our faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God".

As time moves forward, each and every hour/day, since Pentecost, a portion of God's foreknowledge of events in Heaven, on the earth, as well as in the earth of His Born Again Saints, is being revealed and manifested, both spiritually and physically. Only by His Spirit, through His written words, can we know His Truth, as opposed to what "church-ianity" is/has fabricated.

 

[YeshuaFan]

1. Does God still breathe into all human babies at birth?
2. We all know who we are, because of our consciousness through our fleshly brain.
3. As long as I breathe oxygenated air, that combination of flesh and an oxygenated blood supply is true.

However, should my lungs cease to function, oxygen is no longer made available to my blood supply, of which carries that oxygen to all the different living cells and organs within me.
The first noticeable organ that begins to starve and crave oxygen, is my brain. If it does not receive oxygen from my blood supply, in a very short amount of time, the cells in my brain begin to die, whereby I shall lose my consciousness, which is the first stage of death in being a living soul.

John the baptist was fully alive in the womb, as he kicked when he met Mary!

 

[Earburner]

John the baptist was fully alive in the womb, as he kicked when he met Mary!

He was born with the Holy Spirit at birth. Other than Jesus, there are no others, nor will there be again any of such, who were so Anointed. Zechariah 4:11-14.

 

[Earburner]

Are any of those professional theologians Amils? How does that work out with the thousand year reign and Amil, is what I'm getting at? Don't most Amils believe that when a saved person dies they then go to heaven and continue the thousand year reign there?

On a different note, I often get accused by some Amils in here as to misrepresenting Amil. How is it even possible to misrepresent a view that not everyone views in the same way? Who is in charge of what Amils believe or don't believe to begin with? These same Amils that at times accuse me of misrepresenting Amil? They are the spokespersons for the Amil view and that only their view of Amil is the correct view? If one Amil believes that when a saved person dies, they go to heaven and finish reigning a thousand years there, and another Amil believes saved saints simply wake up on the Last Day, which Amil should one believe?

There are numerous differentiations of understandings among Premils also.
Yes, we all who are Born Again of His Holy Spirit, are individual members, in the Lord's body of His invisible church.

I lean towards what Paul describes for all who are Born again of God's Holy Spirit, but have died in faith believing:
1Cor.15[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Thes.4[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Are any of those professional theologians Amils? How does that work out with the thousand year reign and Amil, is what I'm getting at? Don't most Amils believe that when a saved person dies they then go to heaven and continue the thousand year reign there?

On a different note, I often get accused by some Amils in here as to misrepresenting Amil. How is it even possible to misrepresent a view that not everyone views in the same way? Who is in charge of what Amils believe or don't believe to begin with? These same Amils that at times accuse me of misrepresenting Amil? They are the spokespersons for the Amil view and that only their view of Amil is the correct view?

You should be aware of the view of the person you're talking to and be careful not to misrepresent it. When SG and I have accused you of misrepresenting Amil, we, of course, are saying you are misrepresenting our Amil views in particular. But, you also have made statements about Amil at times that no Amils believe. Such as when you said that Amils only use the NT to support their view and not the OT at all. That isn't true of any Amil.

If one Amil believes that when a saved person dies, they go to heaven and finish reigning a thousand years there, and another Amil believes saved saints simply wake up on the Last Day, which Amil should one believe?

What Amil believes that "saved saints simply wake up on the Last Day"? I don't see how it's possible for an Amil to believe that since it wouldn't take into account Satan's little season. How could the dead in Christ reigning with Him for a thousand years last until the last day when you still have Satan's little season occurring after the thousand years ends? That's impossible.

So, it would make no sense whatsoever for an Amil to believe that the dead in Christ would reign for a thousand years in a state of soul sleep and then wake up on the last day when we all know that the last day is not the last day of the thousand years since time would not end yet at that point and instead would end at the end of Satan's little season.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

As far as I am concerned....,
Jesus defines the Amill position in what he taught about his coming.

If one was to list all of Jesus teaching on the subject, a pattern emerges that gives birth to Amill thought.

I agree. He indicated that all of the dead will be raised on the same day (John 5:28-29). He indicated that all people will be judged at the same time which will be when He returns (Matt 25:31-46). He indicated that all His enemies will be killed at His second coming and that heaven and earth would pass away at that time (Matt 24:35-39). And He indicated that He was already starting to reign after His resurrection (Matthew 28:16-18). These are all Amil beliefs.

 

[jeffweedaman]

I agree. He indicated that all of the dead will be raised on the same day (John 5:28-29). He indicated that all people will be judged at the same time which will be when He returns (Matt 25:31-46). He indicated that all His enemies will be killed at His second coming and that heaven and earth would pass away at that time (Matt 24:35-39). And He indicated that He was already starting to reign after His resurrection (Matthew 28:16-18). These are all Amil beliefs.

Exactly.
Peter and Paul Have great respect for this Jesus teaching, and is clearly shown in 1 and 2 Thess and 2Peter 3.

14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found spotless and blameless by Him, at peace, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unscrupulous people and lose your own firm commitment, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.