Atomic clocks do not exist

morse86 said:

We're not talking about tick as a mechanical tick.

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Clearly.

In fact little of the thread uses standard terminology at all.

morse86 said:

What nonsense. You are saying you can produce the radiation levels equivalent to solar levels on earth?!?!????

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The solar constant measures the energy flux produced by the sun in the vicinity of earth. Its value is 1.361 kilowatts per square meter. If you held a 100W light bulb close enough to a the atomic clock, it would exceed this value. Or to put it another way:

Incandescent light bulbs radiate 40 to 100 watts. The Sun delivers 1,360 watts per square meter. An astronaut facing the Sun has a surface area of about 0.85 square meters, so he or she receives energy equivalent to 19 60-watt light bulbs.

morse86 said:

What missions are you referring to? All of that can be explained alternate ways.

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YOU. DON'T. BELIEVE. IN. SPACE.

Why on Earth would details matter to this discussion?

You repeated assertion is that the theory of relativity is false, but if so why to atomic clocks function at all in our gravity well? It's irrelevant that they show a consistent time change in orbit.

morse86 said:

It is not due to gravity time dilation

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Why don't you believe in gravity time dilation? Do you believe in relativistic speed time dilation?

morse86 said:

What nonsense. You are saying you can produce the radiation levels equivalent to solar levels on earth?!?!????

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I dare say an electric fire would do the trick. What with being 93,000,000 miles closer to the one than the other, and all.

Shemjaza said:

YOU. DON'T. BELIEVE. IN. SPACE.

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Wait... what...?

All those little points of light you see in the sky at night that we call 'Stars'...

Just what do you think they are...?

Shemjaza said:

YOU. DON'T. BELIEVE. IN. SPACE.

Why on Earth would details matter to this discussion?

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That's an excellent question. If Space does not exist than we're still all smashed up in a singularity, and distance is just a perceptual anomaly. Which probably means the universe is inside a black hole. Which means we exist outside of time. Which means we're just theoretical concepts of the echoes of a destroyed universe.

So, basically, Aliens?

Petros2015 said:

Wait... what...?

All those little points of light you see in the sky at night that we call 'Stars'...

Just what do you think they are...?

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I'm assuming that there are windows in the underside of heaven, which is painted blue and sitting on top of the glass dome over the flat Earth.

(It feels impossible to discuss the world with flat Earthers without seeming like you are being facetious.)

morse86 said:

Atomic clocks do not exist.

Facts:
1) All atomic clocks tick faster in space, rent-a-$cientists state that it is due to gravity time dilation.

2) All atomic clocks work by measuring the atom's resonance frequency by using radiation.



3) Solar flares, space radiation, space radio waves, and other factors ALL affect all of the atomic clocks....it causes them to tick faster. More radiation = higher resonance frequency = higher tick rate. It is not due to gravity time dilation.

Conclusion: No atomic clocks exist. It cannot be used to measure time correctly as all of them are affected by radiation and other factors. A sundial would be more accurate.

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Get yourself a Rolex. I hear they work pretty well.

morse86 said:

What missions are you referring to? All of that can be explained alternate ways.

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Do you believe the moon landings were a hoax?

HitchSlap said:

Do you believe the moon landings were a hoax?

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Morse thinks everything is a hoax.

lesliedellow said:

Morse thinks everything is a hoax.

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Huh.

lesliedellow said:

Morse thinks everything is a hoax.

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Get off of my yard!!!

The atomic clocks on GPS satellites are designed to operate at 10.23 Mhz.
Since the clocks tick faster in orbit, the clocks are adjusted on Earth to a slightly lower frequency of 10.22999999543 Mhz to compensate for this.

It’s an interesting exercise to show how Relativity is used to come up with this adjusted clock speed.

The two relevant equations are:
Δt = dτ[1-G/c²(M/r2-M/r1)] which is time dilation due to gravity.
Δt= dτ /√(1-v²/c²) which is time dilation due to velocity.

Δt is the coordinate time interval for the satellite clock in orbit and dτ is the proper time interval of the satellite clock on Earth.

For the latter equation since satellite velocities are very small compared to the speed of light c, v²/c²<< 1 and √(1-v²/c²) ≈ 1- v²/2c² as a binomial approximation.
Therefore Δt= dτ/(1- v²/2c²)

In both equations there is a time drift term.
Δt = dτ[1-G/c²(M/r2-M/r1)], has the time drift term G/c²(M/r2-M/r1).

When satellite clock is on Earth r1=r2 and G/c²(M/r2-M/r1)=0 hence Δt = dτ since there is no time drift between satellite clocks on the surface.

For Δt= dτ/(1- v²/2c²) the time drift term is v²/2c².

A stationary satellite clock on the Earth’s surface has the conditions v=0 and v²/2c²=0 hence Δt = dτ as there is no time drift between stationary satellite clocks on the surface.

The time drift values are the errors t(err) that need to be corrected.
The gravitational time dilation error is t1(err)= G/c²(M/r2-M/r1).
The Earth’s mass is 5.972 x 10^24 and radius 6370 km.
A GPS satellite orbit is typically at the specified altitude of 20200 km or radius of 26570 km.

t1(err)= [(6.674 x 10^-20)/(299670)^2][(5.972 x 10^24/26570)-(5.972 x 10^24/6370)]
=-5.296 x 10^-10 s/s
=-5.296 x 10^-10 x 1000000 x 24 x 60 x 60 μs/day
=-45.8 μs/day

The Special Relativity time dilation error is t2(err)= v²/2c².
The orbital velocity v as a function of radius r is given by the equation v ≈√GM/r.

For a satellite with a 26570 km orbital radius:

v = √[(6.674 x 10^-20)(5.972 x 10^24)/26570]
= 3.87 km/s

t2(err)= v²/2c²
= (3.87)^2/(1.796 x 10^11)
= 8.337 x 10 ^-11 s/s
= 8.337 X 10^-11 x 1000000 x 24 x 60 x 60 μs/day
= 7.2 μs/day

The total error t(err) = -45.8 + 7.2 = -38.6 μs/day or -4.462 X 10^-10 s/s

The adjustment of a satellite clock requires the frequency to be offset by a certain amount according to the equation:

t(err)= ΔF/Fe ΔF=Fo-Fe where Fo and Fe are the frequencies of the clock in orbit and on Earth respectively.

Fo = t(err)Fe+Fe
=(-4.462 x 10^-10)10.23 + 10.23
= 10.22999999543

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and since GPS does work after the clock adjustment is made validates the use of Relativity in GPS.

sjastro said:

It’s an interesting exercise to show how Relativity is used to come up with this adjusted clock speed.

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What he said.

But there's a bigger problem.

Shemjaza said:

YOU. DON'T. BELIEVE. IN. SPACE.

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This man lost the Stars.

hmmm, I would have thought Endeavour Morse would be more cerebral than this. Down a pint , kiss your jag, and get back to us.

Fact: A pendulum clock that keeps perfect time at sea level loses 30 seconds/day when at an altitude of ~7300 feet (due to Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, neglecting air resistance, etc., and to be clear, neglecting the very small relativistic effects).

Conclusion: Pendulum clocks do not exist...

ihnoa said:

Fact: A pendulum clock that keeps perfect time at sea level loses 30 seconds/day when at an altitude of ~7300 feet (due to Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, neglecting air resistance, etc., and to be clear, neglecting the very small relativistic effects).

Conclusion: Pendulum clocks do not exist...

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Despite the fact that I don't believe in mountains or Newton, another explanation for the pendulum clocks losing time would be tiny mountain yeti... therefore pendulum clocks don't exist.

Strathos said:

Australia also doesn't exist.

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Belgium doesn't exist either

ihnoa said:

Fact: A pendulum clock that keeps perfect time at sea level loses 30 seconds/day when at an altitude of ~7300 feet (due to Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, neglecting air resistance, etc., and to be clear, neglecting the very small relativistic effects).

Conclusion: Pendulum clocks do not exist...

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I was wondering if this was the line of reasoning used by the OP or if he had a different definition of "exist" then normal. If it is necessary to function perfectly in order to exist then I guess non existence is the norm.