Atheists go to hell even if they are good!?

[Tergle]

You will certainly not be the judge of such things.

Do you think atheists go to hell even if they are good?

Paul didn't think so. Not some of them anyway.

 

[Zaac]

Perhaps because just being in a relationship with the Divine, here and
now, is rewarding in and of itself? Hopefully, Christians see Him as more
than mere fire-insurance.

Hopefully Christians see Him for Who He says He is. Apparently many here are missing that HE says tha HE is HOLY. And His holiness demands SINLESS PERFECTION.

So He gave us a way to have our sin problem taken care of. But some CHOOSE to not accept that way.

And we are in a relationship with GOD based upon HIS terms. And HIS HOLINESS demands that our sin be dealt with. And a person will either accept Him as Lord and Savior and have all his sins forgiven, or a person will reject Him and spend eternity separated from HOLY God.

What yall seem to keep missing is that your repentance is non-existant without the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

The sin is not taken away to allow you to come into God's presence without the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

True repentance demands God's forgiveness. And that forgiveness is not coming without accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

we have a SIN problem that MUST be dealt with.

So just wanting to be in a relationship with GOD doesn't cut it because you're not able to be in such a relationship covered in sin.

Well, I have not seen each and every person who claims to have come
into a relationship with Him, so I cannot say definitively what they have
or have not recognized amongst the details.

And I'm sure you already know that one doesn't have to be saved from
"endless torment in hell" to be saved or to have a Savior.

Now I keep asking this question. But can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone. What exactly do yall think He saved Christians from? Why do yall think He is called SAVIOR?

If you're not saved from the death and destruction of an eternal lake of fire, what are you being saved from?

The jury's still out on that one -- the Story isn't over yet.

(I realize I have a terrible habit of over-estimating the King of the
Universe; please bear with me )

The jury is NOT still out on that. Read His word. He's already said that all will not be saved.

 

[b&wpac7]

Do you think atheists go to hell even if they are good?

I do not believe in the concept of Hell. I do not find such a place described in the Jewish scriptures. I do not believe if such a place existed God would condemn people there for the lack of a single belief. So, if such a place existed, atheists would not go there if they were good people.

 

[Zaac]

I think it is appropriate not only to tell people the benefits of making the right choices, but also the consequences of making the wrong choices.

And this is the ONLY Biblically correct manner to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

NO ONE is saved without recognizing what Jesus is saving them from. Which is why true salvation cannot occur without repentance.

The sin problem must be dealt with.

That is why He is called SAVIOR

 

[b&wpac7]

Tergle,

I may have reacted harshly toward you. It is a touchy subject for me. I simply do not like the traditions of the Jewish people being taken and used like that. I apologize for reacting as such. It was not correct.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

MOD HAT

Here is the original post for reference.

So how is this just that if a christain who would lets say killed someone and asked for forgiveness would go to heaven and an atheist who has been good all there life, has never put themself first go to tell?

Please, answers?

Now, we all know the rules here; but in case some of us may have forgotten:

Stay on topic; that is: the question and statements made in the original post.

Address the post, not the poster.

Reply to a post in the same tone and manner as would be acceptable to you in a reply to one of your own posts.

These three things just about cover it all.

Now, as there are a bunch of rule violations in this thread, consider this reminder an act of grace; If we can not keep things civil and on track, I will close this thread, start reviewing this thread, and reporting every single violation that I see.

Remember also that violations will result in warnings and infractions being issued and could result in restricted access and even banns.

Now, Play nice, and happy posting!

Mark,
Staff Supervisor.

 

[Tergle]

I do not believe in the concept of Hell. I do not find such a place described in the Jewish scriptures. I do not believe if such a place existed God would condemn people there for the lack of a single belief. So, if such a place existed, atheists would not go there if they were good people.

(EDITED FOR FOLLOWING THE MOD'S DIRECTIVES SAKE)

Here's a Rabbi's thoughts on bad ending in eternity:

From Judaism's perspective, our eternal soul is as real as our thumb. This is the world of doing, and the "world to come" is where we experience the eternal reality of whatever we've become. Do you think after being responsible for the torture and deaths of millions of people, that Hitler could really "end it all" by just swallowing some poison? No. Ultimate justice is found in another dimension.

- Ask the Rabbi - Heaven, Hell, Afterlife in Judaism

And on the same page:

Not all souls merit Gehenom. It is for people who have done good but need to be purified. A handful of people are too evil for Gehenom, and they are punished eternally. Pharaoh is one example.

So what about "heaven?"

Heaven is where the soul experiences the greatest possible pleasure - the feeling of closeness to G-d. Of course not all souls experience that to the same degree. It's like going to a symphony concert. Some tickets are front-row center; others are back in the bleachers. Where your seat is located is based on the merit of your good deeds - e.g. giving charity, caring for others, prayer.

A second factor in heaven is your understanding of the environment. Just like at the concert, a person can have great seats but no appreciation of what's going on. If a person spends their lifetime elevating the soul and becoming sensitive to spiritual realities (through Torah study), then that will translate into unimaginable pleasure in heaven. On the other hand, if
life was all about pizza and football, well, that can get pretty boring for eternity.

The existence of the afterlife is not stated explicitly in the Torah itself, because as human beings we have to focus on our task in this world. Though awareness of an eternal reward can also be an effective motivator.

For further study, see Maimonides' Foundations of the Torah, "The Way of G-d" by Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzatto, and the commentary of Nachmanides to Leviticus 18:29.

With blessings from Jerusalem,

Rabbi Shraga Simmons
Aish.com

 

[b&wpac7]

You left out a lot of answering of many of my questions. But, be that as it may, here's a Rabbi's thoughts on bad ending in eternity:

That is the rabbi's opinion. Teachings about the afterlife are not concrete in Judaism because we are not given much information in the scriptures about the afterlife. We get a few glimpses but the focus of it is on this life, how we should live, and what we should do. I do not believe in Hell, this rabbi does. Your mileage will vary between rabbis.

 

[Tergle]

That is the rabbi's opinion. Teachings about the afterlife are not concrete in Judaism because we are not given much information in the scriptures about the afterlife.

We get a few glimpses but the focus of it is on this life, how we should live, and what we should do.

Then why all the obedience and holiness quest? Why not live for the gusto as ideologies like humanism declares? There are no hours or days and years in eternity right? I can wait to be purified of my "sins" in a timeframe that does not exist and then head on into the heavenly party as I instantly arrive at the pearly gates.

I do not believe in Hell, this rabbi does. Your mileage will vary between rabbis.

I'll fill up on Rabbi Simmon's fuel. It will keep me on the narrow road well.

 

[b&wpac7]

Then why all the obedience and holiness quest? Why not live for the gusto as ideologies like humanism declares? There are no hours or days and years in eternity right? I can wait to be purified of my "sins" in a timeframe that does not exist and then head on into the heavenly party as I instantly arrive at the pearly gates.

Because it is what God requested of me. I desire to walk with Him, and walk in His ways which are more precious than silver and gold. My reward is that, I need nothing more. What comes after I do not know, I can only live day-to-day in the way I can.

 

[b&wpac7]

Just as I find the idea that one has to repent only for fear of punishment wrong, I also think it is wrong to only desire to repent for some sort of reward that is coming. Walking with God is its own reward. I need no other reason.

 

[Tergle]

Just as I find the idea that one has to repent only for fear of punishment wrong, I also think it is wrong to only desire to repent for some sort of reward that is coming. Walking with God is its own reward. I need no other reason.

You have just described the love we Christians feel for the walk that Jesus invited us to take with Him. It is far more out of a deep appreciation for who he is and what he has done, then it is some fear of hell. I, like so many of my fellow Evangelicals, became a Christian out of joy and not of relief from escaping a hell none of us can ever truly understand anyway.

I only have a select few "real" mentors in my life. One of them is a (not a Christian) orthodox Rabbi.

The other two are Christian missionaries.

Almost making the A-list is an atheist guy that I truly respect. And in many ways, we have a deep relationship that equals anyone in my life.

 

[razeontherock]

The Holy One of Israel.

Ha Shem. The Name:

Yeshua Ha Maschiach.

Wow. That makes me cringe.

It makes California Sun sneeze

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Then why all the obedience and holiness quest? Why not live for the gusto as ideologies like humanism declares? There are no hours or days and years in eternity right? I can wait to be purified of my "sins" in a timeframe that does not exist and then head on into the heavenly party as I instantly arrive at the pearly gates.

So you would be a hedonistic, immoral jerk if you didn't believe that God was going to judge your actions? That's a bit scary.

 

[b&wpac7]

I only have a select few "real" mentors in my life. One of them is a (not a Christian) orthodox Rabbi.

Well, one couldn't be an Orthodox rabbi and a Christian.

Wisdom does not simply come from our own belief system. It is always important to keep your eyes open to see what others have found.

 

[Skavau]

Do you hear that sound Skavau? That's the sound of you wasting your time on this guy.

I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to the audience. They are the ones who should see his anti-humanism.

 

[Tergle]

So you would be a hedonistic, immoral jerk if you didn't believe that God was going to judge your actions? That's a bit scary.

Hitchen's cliche aside . . .

When did I say I stopped being a hedonistic, immoral jerk? I am, after all, living in a secular society. It rubs off on you often. It's mentioned in the New Testament. Not me, but "it."

 

[Tergle]

I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to the audience. They are the ones who should see his anti-humanism.

In keeping with the OP and the MOD WARNING, do atheists go to hell if they do not go back and re-read post 846?

 

[Skavau]

http://www.christianforums.com/reputation.php?p=57480405

I don't believe this is a factual statement. This reveals at least one source of your angst on the subject, that can be corrected. God does not Judge us based on what we are not able to do, but on what we are able to do. I could say much more on this, but it is better for another thread.

Yes, the insistent repetition that God judges us based on our inability to believe versus the claim that God judges us for our sins (with the saved getting let off the hook). I am aware of this, though perhaps you better make your perspective more believed in Christendom as far too many repeat the obscenity that atheists deserve eternal torture for thought-crime.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7556526-81/#post57480473

You just expressed why the Gospel must be preached. You also just argued about "accurate observation of God," who you don't believe in. Don't you find that strange?

No I don't. I speak in hypotheticals a lot of the time. I couldn't hold a position in this argument without using hypotheticals. Zaac, who ironically holds hypotheticals in open contempt is happy to allow me to argue based on a hypothetical to his perspective all of the time.

Though, if God is all-powerful and all-knowing then he could reveal himself to everyone with no questions asked. (I know that you don't hold that he is either or holds either of those attributed, but you are again unique in that).

 

[Skavau]

In keeping with the OP and the MOD WARNING, do atheists go to hell if they do not go back and re-read post 846?

I saw the post, Tergle. Almost all of my content on this thread is in full regard with the original post. I hardly think you're the one to speak of keeping on topic.