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Are you bound by the Mosaic Laws or Rabbinic Judaism?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by CherubRam, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    This verse you plucked out of context refers to either the house of Jacob possessing the possessions that once belonged to the Edomites (possibly the house of Esau as well) or it refers to the house of Jacob possessing their own possessions that were taken from them by Edom and/or Esau. It says nothing about receiving tribute from the Gentiles.
     
  2. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    What law is written on your heart? Is it not Torah, as per Jeremiah 31:33, which is or includes the Mosaic Law? Just because we are under a new priesthood does not mean the Law of YHWH given through Moses is abolished. Do you abolish the two greatest commandments and the Ten Commandments (Mosaic laws) along with the rest of the Mosaic Law? If not, why not?
     
  3. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    The laws that govern the Festivals, sacrifices, and the offerings are the Mosaic laws. Christians are still obligated to keep the commands of God.


    Jeremiah 7
    21 This is what the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, says: “Add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices, and eat the meat yourselves, 22 for when I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak with them or command them concerning burnt offering and sacrifice. 23 However, I did give them this command: Obey Me, and then I will be your God, and you will be My people. You must follow every way I command you so that it may go well with you. 24 Yet they didn’t listen or pay attention but followed their own advice and according to their own stubborn, evil heart.

    Yahwah did instruct Moses on how the Israelites were to preform the Festivals, sacrifices, and offerings. And that is the difference between God's commands and the Mosaic laws of the priesthood.
     
  4. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    I understand your position on sacrifices and offerings, but you can't just lump the Festivals in with them without Scriptural grounds. Jeremiah 7:21-24 says nothing about the Festivals except to include them under "Obey Me" since they are among His commands.

    The Mosaic Law includes laws about the priesthood, but it also includes ALL of "God's commands" including the Festivals. On what grounds do you believe the Festivals are not "God's commands"?
     
  5. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    These verses speak of their sin causing a curse.
     
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    tada! I remember a book long ago called "A Curse Causeless Shall Not Come"
    showing
    how disease of all kinds is a curse, and what the Bible says is the cause of all of it.
     
  7. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    I am not allowed to post the scriptures that show the Festival and such have been done away with.
     
  8. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Then I will post them for you.

    Isaiah 1:14
    Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them.

    Zephaniah 3:18
    “I will remove from you all who mourn over the loss of your appointed festivals, which is a burden and reproach for you.

    Lamentations 2:6
    He has laid waste his dwelling like a garden; he has destroyed his place of meeting. YHWH has made Zion forget her appointed festivals and her Sabbaths; in his fierce anger he has spurned both king and priest.

    Hosea 2:11
    I will stop all her celebrations:
    her yearly festivals, her New Moons, her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.

    Amos 5:21
    “I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me.​

    In each of these verses, the Almighty is not coming against the festivals that He Himself commanded Israel to keep. He is coming against the people of Israel because of their wickedness and evil acts. It may be hard to see that because these verses are plucked out of context. Let's put the first one back in its context.

    Isaiah 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for YHWH hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
    Isa 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
    Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken YHWH, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
    Isa 1:5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
    Isa 1:6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
    Isa 1:7 Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
    Isa 1:8 And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
    Isa 1:9 Except YHWH of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
    Isa 1:10 Hear the word of YHWH, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
    Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith YHWH: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
    Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
    Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
    Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
    Isa 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
    Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
    Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
    Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith YHWH: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
    Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
    Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken it. ​

    When Israel turns away from their evil, repents and begins to obey YHWH's laws, then the things mentioned in verses 13-15 will no longer be hated by Him. Even their prayers and holy gatherings were hated by Him. Using your logic, if verse 14 shows the festivals are done away with, then verses 13 & 15 show prayer and religious services are also done away with.
     
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  9. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    The New Covenant is made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31)

    At this point, I'm wondering if there is a hotline I should be calling for battered and abused verses. Perhaps you should read the whole chapter?

    Yes, I made this point that Acts 15:16-17 quotes Amos 9:11-12 in regard to the restoration of Israel, not sure why you repeated it.
     
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  10. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    it is a very difficult and widespread, very popular, problem. Most of the world system(s) go along with error quite readily, and teach the iie as truth, and the truth is called a lie.

    So the hotlines are all poised and ready to persecute YOU/US/ ekklesia, since we are the outsiders now on earth, opposed to the whole system of the enemy, just as JESUS IS.
     
  11. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, such as keeping His holy days. Furthermore because they are instructions for how to act in accordance with His holiness, they can not be done away with without first doing away with God's holiness. Rather, they are important foreshadows that are extremely rich with teachings about God, His plan of redemption, and about what we will be doing during Messiah's reign, so we should not deprive ourselves of the joy of keeping them in obedience to God's commands in accordance with the example that Messiah set for us to follow.
     
  12. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    You guys left out the part about the Old Covenant being "revoked."
     
  13. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    So ?
    Is there anyone who doesn't understand that ?
     
  14. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Yes, the "Old Covenant" was "revoked", but the law is not the "Old Covenant". It was contained within the OC. The worship of YHWH was contained within the OC as well, but certainly that has not been revoked. Neither have the two greatest commandments or the Ten Commandments. So where are you drawing the line of revocation?
     
  15. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    It was the mission of the Jews to convert the people of the world to Judaism. (The Old Covenant)
     
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  16. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Judaism is not a Jews only club.
     
  17. Elihoenai

    Elihoenai Who has ceased to eat Manna?

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    The Inferior to the Superior Covenant!


    Malachi 4:4 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

    4 Remember ye the law of Moses My servant, That I did command him in Horeb, For all Israel -- statutes and judgments.


    1 Corinthians 11:23 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

    23 For I -- I received from the Lord that which also I did deliver to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was delivered up, took bread,
     
  18. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    I'm not understanding the significance of these verses to your point.
     
  19. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    It means that the New Covenant is a better covenant.
     
  20. Open Heart

    Open Heart Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I agree with that.
     
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