Are vegetables overrated?

[RDKirk]

We're nothing but primates, so veggies and fruits must be like 100% of our diet if we want to be healthy and our kids to be healthy.

Nope.

Chimpanzees aren't much into hunting, but they'll eat animal protein when they can get it.

Baboons are excellent hunters. They even organize complex hunting relay schemes to tire and bring down elk.

So some primates hunt, some don't. There is no real reason to suppose early homo did not.

As far as anyone can tell, being homo sapiens has always been synonymous with being a successful predator. There is no evidence that there was ever a pure "gatherer" culture that could be called homo sapiens.

Considering that baboons are already excellent predators, being an excellent predator likely preceded becoming sapient for humans.

 

[RDKirk]

Actually human health is greatly dependent on cellulose and other forms of dietary fiber.

The old Aleuts might disagree with that.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The McDougall Newsletter - Cutting Food Costs

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Agree 100 percent. And I'm living proof that it works.

Low Carb/High Fat/High Protein works
Low Fat/Moderate Protein/High Carb works

...most diets that people report success with (regardless of name) usually follow one of these two patterns.

High Fat & High Carb simultaneously is where most people get into trouble (sometimes referred to as the SAD diet "Standard American Diet"). ...and most of the foods people eat fall into that category (Pizza, Fast Food, etc...)

Vegan/Vegetarians will say "you're getting fat from all the fat" Atkins/Paleo will say "you're getting fat from all the carbs"

I've tested both diets on myself just to see what works and what doesn't.

I can carb up all I like provided that the meat I eat is all lean cuts of chicken and I don't gain any weight.

I can eat a bunch of fatty cuts of meat all I like as long as I keep the carbs under 50g per day and I don't gain weight.

However, if I eat the fatty cuts of meat, and eat high carb at the same time, I can gain 5-10 lbs in a week...as soon as I switch back to one of the other two approaches, the weight comes right back off in 4-5 days.


However, back 5-6 years ago when I needed to drop 40-50lbs...I had pretty good luck with the paleo model (basically 50% grass fed meats/50% green veggies). Dropped 40lbs and my cholesterol improved (despite what the vegans will tell you about how meat raises cholesterol levels)

Basically, I'm at the point now where I decide which pattern to follow based on what I'm trying to do at the time. If it's winter time and I'm just focusing on muscle building and strength, I'll go with the approach that has a little more carbs and a little less fat (as the carbs do help with higher intensity training). This time of year (pool season) when the focus is leaning out a bit and looking good with the shirt off, I'll keep the carbs lower.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Nope.

Chimpanzees aren't much into hunting, but they'll eat animal protein when they can get it.

Baboons are excellent hunters. They even organize complex hunting relay schemes to tire and bring down elk.

So some primates hunt, some don't. There is no real reason to suppose early homo did not.

As far as anyone can tell, being homo sapiens has always been synonymous with being a successful predator. There is no evidence that there was ever a pure "gatherer" culture that could be called homo sapiens.

Considering that baboons are already excellent predators, being an excellent predator likely preceded becoming sapient for humans.

But we're not tigers. The majority of our diet must be plants.

 

[Rubiks]

This food pyramid has been obsolete for quite a number of years. It is not 2017. It was replaced by a different food pyramid then changed to the MyPlate in 2011. There are different variations for different ages and different activity levels but here is the basic guidleline one.

How can the U.S government claim "make half your grains whole" Eating white bread has the same nutritional value as eating pure sugar.

 

[Rubiks]

It's important to note the distinction between a fruit and a vegetable is a cultural one, not a scientific one. Mushrooms are considered vegetables but they're not even a plant.

 

[blackribbon]

How can the U.S government claim "make half your grains whole" Eating white bread has the same nutritional value as eating pure sugar.

There are other grains and foods that are not "whole grain" but also not white bread .... or bread at all. White bread and pure sugar probably has a very similar glycemic index but not the same nutritional value especially many white breads are fortified.

This is a recommendation...I don't fully agree with it but it is a place to start. It is basically saying to make educated choices about your grains and to not only eat highly processed grains. Nobody is going to die if they eat their sandwich on white bread as long as they get some other forms of grains in their diet.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Low Carb/High Fat/High Protein works
Low Fat/Moderate Protein/High Carb works

...most diets that people report success with (regardless of name) usually follow one of these two patterns.

High Fat & High Carb simultaneously is where most people get into trouble (sometimes referred to as the SAD diet "Standard American Diet"). ...and most of the foods people eat fall into that category (Pizza, Fast Food, etc...)

Vegan/Vegetarians will say "you're getting fat from all the fat" Atkins/Paleo will say "you're getting fat from all the carbs"

I've tested both diets on myself just to see what works and what doesn't.

I can carb up all I like provided that the meat I eat is all lean cuts of chicken and I don't gain any weight.

I can eat a bunch of fatty cuts of meat all I like as long as I keep the carbs under 50g per day and I don't gain weight.

However, if I eat the fatty cuts of meat, and eat high carb at the same time, I can gain 5-10 lbs in a week...as soon as I switch back to one of the other two approaches, the weight comes right back off in 4-5 days.


However, back 5-6 years ago when I needed to drop 40-50lbs...I had pretty good luck with the paleo model (basically 50% grass fed meats/50% green veggies). Dropped 40lbs and my cholesterol improved (despite what the vegans will tell you about how meat raises cholesterol levels)

Basically, I'm at the point now where I decide which pattern to follow based on what I'm trying to do at the time. If it's winter time and I'm just focusing on muscle building and strength, I'll go with the approach that has a little more carbs and a little less fat (as the carbs do help with higher intensity training). This time of year (pool season) when the focus is leaning out a bit and looking good with the shirt off, I'll keep the carbs lower.

"Steak and Salad" is a time-tested diet for weight loss.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The old Aleuts might disagree with that.

Dietary fiber is very important for immune system health, which is probably less crucial for those living in the colder climes than for us living in the disease infested temperate and tropical zones.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Dietary fiber is very important for immune system health

Fiber is the broom of the colon. And, as it relates to the OP, dietary fiber is cheap!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There are other grains and foods that are not "whole grain" but also not white bread .... or bread at all. White bread and pure sugar probably has a very similar glycemic index but not the same nutritional value especially many white breads are fortified.

This is a recommendation...I don't fully agree with it but it is a place to start. It is basically saying to make educated choices about your grains and to not only eat highly processed grains. Nobody is going to die if they eat their sandwich on white bread as long as they get some other forms of grains in their diet.

I make my bread with 1/2 WW and 1/2 unbleached white flour. Plenty of fiber and the loaf isn't like a brick.

 

[RDKirk]

But we're not tigers. The majority of our diet must be plants.

Notice that I said nothing about tigers. You brought in that total non sequitur.

For excellent pre-agricultural predators, there are actually more calories to be gained on a given day through animal protein than by gathering plants.

'Tis true. I used to teach jungle survival. I can toss you into any real wilderness, and edible plants for long-term diet will be harder to come by than animal calories (although you might have to get used to eating lots of insects).

Agriculture made life much easier, but before agriculture, sources of abundant plant food are rarer than post-agricultural people might think.

 

[blackribbon]

Dietary fiber is the rotor-rooter system for the small intestines and bowel. Keeps the body's plumbing flowing properly.

 

[blackribbon]

Notice that I said nothing about tigers. You brought in that total non sequitur.

he was saying we aren't absolute carnivores...it wasn't non sequitur at all

 

[RDKirk]

But we're not tigers. The majority of our diet must be plants.

he was saying we aren't absolute carnivores...it wasn't non sequitur at all

NOBODY said we were absolute carnivores, so it was a non-sequitur.

 

[blackribbon]

NOBODY said we were absolute carnivores, so it was a non-sequitur.

it was easy to follow the logic whether or not you agree with it .... making it not a non-sequitur issue

 

[DawnStar]

Are vegetables overrated?

I will put it this way. If I was given a choice of eating a steak or some vegetable and it would be my last meal for three days the steak would win hands down.

 

[Subduction Zone]

NOBODY said we were absolute carnivores, so it was a non-sequitur.

Speak for yourself

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Pasta Fagioli for dinner tonight.
More than we can finish.
$10.75 for the meal. $5.375 per serving, and with non-organic ingredients, this would cost a few bucks less.

4 oz Organic Pasta .50
2 cans organic White Kidney beans $5.00
1 can Great Northern beans $2.00
1/3 jar Neuman's organic Pasta sauce $2.00
2 cloves garlic .25
Spices .25
Organic vegetable stock .75