Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

[Guojing]

incorrect:

Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.​

Isn't Genesis 15:5 a blessing of Abraham as well then? But we cannot claim that because?

 

[hislegacy]

Isn't Genesis 15:5 a blessing of Abraham as well then? But we cannot claim that because?

I quoted the verses two times already showing we can.

If you have an issue with that - talk to the Apostle Paul - he is the one who wrote it.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

True, but once upon a time, here, it continued to devolve ad infinitum, until people actually left the site for all of he strife. We seem to be doing better.

Yup. I remember those days. We are bound to tell the truth with scripture... beyond that, it is His job to convict and convince.

 

[Guojing]

I quoted the verses two times already showing we can.

If you have an issue with that - talk to the Apostle Paul - he is the one who wrote it.

Oh, so now you believe anyone can claim Genesis 15:5 for themselves?

 

[Guojing]

Yup. I remember those days. We are bound to tell the truth with scripture... beyond that, it is His job to convict and convince.

You can tell what you believe to be the truth with scripture, and exchange views cordially with those who disagree with you, who believe their version of truth with scripture, and still be polite about it.

If everyone does that, then we can have peaceful and Christian like discussions in all forums.

 

[hislegacy]

Oh, so now you believe anyone can claim Genesis 15:5 for themselves?

You keep repeating that. My answer has not changed.

Anything else?

 

[Guojing]

You keep repeating that. My answer has not changed.

Anything else?

I see.

If you are willing to believe that even Genesis 15:5 can be claimed by any Christian with faith today, I guess I can understand better your beliefs about healing.

 

[Strong in Him]

I would politely request you remove this bolded statement - you can go back and re read all my posts - I NEVER ONCE said that.

Please be honest and remove this inaccurate statement.

You didn't say those exact words, no. But I didn't use quotation marks in my post, nor did I quote you directly.
I have changed "own fault" to "responsibility", and admit that might have been a bit strong.

But you did say that God always wants to heal everyone, post#147.
You said that there is no example in Scripture of someone being told "no" or "wait" in response to healing, post#179.
You quoted Scripture which said "signs will follow those who believe" - with emphasis on the last 3 words, post#183
You said that Jesus said that everyone who prayed for healing would receive it - whether gradually or instantly, post#184
When I said, "the Gospels say that Jesus couldn't heal due to unbelief", you said that it was still the same today, and "why wouldn't unbelief still be a cause?" post#191.
I have given examples of Christians who have prayed in faith, declared in faith that God would heal them, and who continued to believe that but did not receive healing. Your answer has been that I am judging God's word by experience. It seems like you have no answer for non healing except lack of faith, and the insistence that God always heals.

So in summary, from your own posts, it seems that if a Christian prays in faith for healing and does not receive it, it's due to unbelief. God always heals; unbelief stops someone from receiving healing.

It would be very easy to read that argument and think, "they're saying it's down to me. I need more faith; I am preventing my own healing".
And this puts the focus on the sick person and what they have to do, and not on God and what he wants to do.

 

[hislegacy]

You didn't say those exact words, no. But I didn't use quotation marks in my post, nor did I quote you directly.
I have changed "own fault" to "responsibility", and admit that might have been a bit strong.

But you did say that God always wants to heal everyone, post#147.
You said that there is no example in Scripture of someone being told "no" or "wait" in response to healing, post#179.
You quoted Scripture which said "signs will follow those who believe" - with emphasis on the last 3 words, post#183
You said that Jesus said that everyone who prayed for healing would receive it - whether gradually or instantly, post#184
When I said, "the Gospels say that Jesus couldn't heal due to unbelief", you said that it was still the same today, and "why wouldn't unbelief still be a cause?" post#191.
I have given examples of Christians who have prayed in faith, declared in faith that God would heal them, and who continued to believe that but did not receive healing. Your answer has been that I am judging God's word by experience. It seems like you have no answer for non healing except lack of faith, and the insistence that God always heals.

So in summary, from your own posts, it seems that if a Christian prays in faith for healing and does not receive it, it's due to unbelief. God always heals; unbelief stops someone from receiving healing.

It would be very easy to read that argument and think, "they're saying it's down to me. I need more faith; I am preventing my own healing".
And this puts the focus on the sick person and what they have to do, and not on God and what he wants to do.

What did I say that was scripturally incorrect?

You will also note that I never ONE time assigned blame to the person for lack of faith either.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.

Yup, I'm just shocked we can't even come to an agreement here that God's power is limitless and the discussion goes on for 13 pages.

 

[hislegacy]

Yup, I'm just shocked we can't even come to an agreement here that God's power is limitless and the discussion goes on for 13 pages.

I don’t think there is anyone arguing that God does not have the power to heal. The question being debated IMHO. Is about His will

 

[ARBITER01]

So in summary, from your own posts, it seems that if a Christian prays in faith for healing and does not receive it, it's due to unbelief. God always heals; unbelief stops someone from receiving healing.

It would be very easy to read that argument and think, "they're saying it's down to me. I need more faith; I am preventing my own healing".
And this puts the focus on the sick person and what they have to do, and not on God and what he wants to do.

Exactly.

We've had quite a few of the academic type folks of the faith movement on here over the years, and it is always the same, they only seek to assign blame to a person for their lack of faith. Every single time it seems. I guess it is just real easy to do that.

On topics like this, and from other statements that well known leaders and individuals have said somewhat recently, it seems that people just don't trust other people in Christianity anymore,.... they want to seek healing directly from GOD somehow instead of through another.

In many respects I don't blame them, with all the shysters out there just trying to make money off of them. And then we have these people making victims out of the folks by pointing the finger at them.

We've had people in the past reach great heights with GOD, where He was able to do healing through them like He did through Jesus. I think we need to study their lives and writings to see what they found instead of entertain the faith movement blame game.

 

[hislegacy]

2 Tim 4: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables
​

I am not 100% - NOT addressing anyone on this board. In case you missed it - I am not addressing anyone on this board.

Opinion: I think as time goes on we are steadily entering a time where people have a hard time enduring sound doctrine. Why? Because there are times that Sound doctrine goes against what they have been taught and/or agree with. It is why you see some down playing the contextual truth of the Holy Scripture and the Word of God.

There is a ditch on both sides of the road. One is a form of religiosity that elevates tradition to the level of or above the Word of God; the other is a spirituality side, who reduces the impetus of scripture because "God taught me....". Both are the beginnings of error and both are not viable.

In regards to what I have been trying to express on this thread:

It is abundantly clear in Scripture that God's will is many times not done in mankind's actions.

• Salvation for every man/woman and child is the perfect will of God - yet people still are not saved.
• Jesus was prevented from healing because of people's actions or beliefs - yet it was the will of God for them to be healed.
• Baptism in the Holy Spirit is the perfect will of God for every believer - yet not every believer is Baptized.

Can a person's faith hinder their healing - it did in Jesus ministry - are we greater than Jesus?
Can there be other things that hinder receiving from God - yes.

Does God withhold healing from some people for some unknowable reason - no - that is not in His Character nor His word.

This has zero to do with Word of Faith or some television evangelist, it has to do with the veracity of scripture.

 

[Strong in Him]

What did I say that was scripturally incorrect?

In a previous post you said that Jesus promised physical healing to everyone.
But he didn't.
Neither did he say that none of the Apostles would ever be ill. Paul said that he only preached to the Galatians because of his illness - he probably stopped in Galatia to recover. Also, two of his fellow Apostles were ill; Epaphroditus nearly died and Trophimus was excluded from a missionary journey because he was ill. Paul could have healed him before they left, or taken him with them and healed him in front of non believers.

You will also note that I never ONE time assigned blame to the person for lack of faith either.

I don't think I said that you did.
Whoever the Christians were, years ago on this forum, who told me that I wouldn't be healed because I didn't have faith, I don't think you were one of them. Who knows? I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular; I'm just saying that I met with that reaction - and more than once.

You didn't single anybody out - but you did say that unbelief was responsible for someone not being healed.
And I don't believe that is true in every case; not today.
Like I said, we have never seen Jesus, yet we believe in him, his words, his claims, his ministry. We believe that he died for our sins. We believe that he was raised from the dead, ascended and sent his Holy Spirit to us. All this, without seeing, Hebrews 11:1, John 20:29.
In addition to this, Christians who pray for healing, attend healing services, ask for prayer etc also have faith that God will hear their prayer and request and can do what they ask.

I don't believe that all of that equates to having no faith.
They/we have faith; more faith than a lot of the people that Jesus met.
Some are still not healed.

Believe it or not I would be quite interested in having a discussion about why this might be so. But I don't think I could do that with you, because you, almost, seem to dismiss it and insist that experience is not important, only God's word is.

 

[hislegacy]

You didn't single anybody out - but you did say that unbelief was responsible for someone not being healed.
And I don't believe that is true in every case; not today.

Neither do I.

 

[hislegacy]

Believe it or not I would be quite interested in having a discussion about why this might be so. But I don't think I could do that with you, because you, almost, seem to dismiss it and insist that experience is not important, only God's word is.

I can appreciate that - if you ever change your mind, I'd love to. But i can only show you the times it happened in the Scriptures. There are a number of them.

 

[lismore]

Yup, I'm just shocked we can't even come to an agreement here that God's power is limitless and the discussion goes on for 13 pages.

I don't think anyone is saying God's power is limited. Human understanding is limited.

 

[hislegacy]

In a previous post you said that Jesus promised physical healing to everyone.
But he didn't.
Neither did he say that none of the Apostles would ever be ill.

No I did not - here again. I said healing was provided by Jesus in the Atonement, just as forgiveness of sins was. We then spent dozens of posts discussing God's will. I really wish you would not put your interpretation on my words.

 

[Strong in Him]

I can appreciate that - if you ever change your mind, I'd love to. But i can only show you the times it happened in the Scriptures. There are a number of them.

I know there are.

But like I said, our experience today should be matching up to, and backing up, what is in Scripture.
Jesus promised eternal life to those who believe - 100% of those who do believe, receive eternal life.
Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to those who ask - 100% of those who pray to be filled with the Spirit, are. Even if they expect to speak in tongues or have some other kind of outward experience, but don't.
Jesus promised he would be with us always - he is with us 100% of the time, because he promised.

IF Jesus had promised healing to all believers; 100% of believers would be healed.
People would be attracted to the faith by the promise of good health. Yet that doesn't happen.

 

[Strong in Him]

No I did not - here again. I said healing was provided by Jesus in the Atonement, just as forgiveness of sins was. We then spent dozens of posts discussing God's will. I really wish you would not put your interpretation on my words.

If Jesus had said that all Christians everywhere would always receive healing when they prayed, then they would - whether immediate or gradual.

He did.