Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

[ByTheSpirit]

Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.

Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.

Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

Pauls thorn ???

 

[Brad D.]

Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.

Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

God is far more concerned with our Spiritual condition than He is our Physical condition. If He needs to upset our physical condition in order to bring about something far more pure in our Spiritual Condition He will every time. He has done this endlessly in even His most mature Saints. There is nothing more Biblical or Scriptural as that.

He did heal the sick. But He said He came for the "Sick". He was not talking about the physically sick, but the spiritually sick. You see Him almost sigh every time when the people continue to seek Him for the outward signs and refusing to get at why He really came. The paradigm has shifted from the outward to the inward in the New Testament. The people were refusing to make the adjustment. Many still are today.

 

[port41919]

Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.

Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

Simply put and as the Bible states " nothing is impossible for God". Since we live under the New Testament healing is often spiritual healing not physical. However God can do whatever He wants to do. Also, I would look into the subject more than just quoting one verse from the Old Testament. Just a thought not a judgement. God bless!

 

[Blade]

Lets take "delight in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart." Praise God a promise but do we keep reading? "Commit your way to the LORD; trust in him and he will do this". Seems we have to do something. Promises of healing are through out the word of God. Now I am one that is not moved by what I see going on in someone elses life. When you have over your life been around and come across those on the out side were standing 100% in faith yet died of some sickness. But what no one saw heard was "I don't think I am ever going to be healed". Does not Gods word talk about if we doubt?

Let not that man think he will get anything from God. Did not doubt stop Christ from healing? Yeah all He could do was lay hands a few and teach because of doubt. See is not what we see hear around us its what does GODS word say. Christ said aka GOD through Christ lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. Peter and John told us "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."

Go back and read that for they did exactly what Christ said. Never once did they have to pray to GOD to Christ to heal that man. They spoke that name through faith in that name. They told them "Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?" So why did they not have to pray ask for healing? Theses signs shall follow them that believe "in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover"

That name faith in that name. Thats just it huh. Its do you have faith? Yes yes we love to think we all do yet its very clear we do not. Let me be clear we all have been given the measure of Faith. Like everything else with God you have to work it use it exercise it. Did not Christ say "When Jesus heard these things, He marveled at him, and turned around and said to the crowd that followed Him, “I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!” They say there were at that time about 500,000-600,000 in Israel and that one man was the only one that Christ found such great faith and marveled. That "faith" is you pick up that bible you read what He said and you never give it another thought for you know that you know that you know He will do it.

Now to barely touch Pauls Thorn in the flesh. I have never read that search on it as it was originally written and came away with some kind of sickness. Saying its was some kind of sickness is speculation since it's not written. The enemy was sent to buffet him did not mean sickness or disease. When I have to dive into speculation then I can say anything I want. Paul said Messenger of Satan brought the thorn. The spirit buffeted beat struck as with a fist and tormented him. The devil continuously as the present subject tense of the verb shows.

Said this countless times through the years that we don't see threads on faith not on any forums I am on. If we do then at some point some group gets talked about made fun of. What we can not get past is with out faith we can never please Him. Faith so what can you believe for? For we walk by faith the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen, not by sight. Hmm not by sight yet was it not said "What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it" or "Pauls thorn". We walk by faith not by sight. haha sorry but have to..do you see?

For me I have learned as it was said to me when I was like 16 its so much easier to pray for others then your self. If we don't believe what God said do not have faith in his word what do you think God will do? Yet that is not quite correct. He already did it. That words was already spoken and that word will never return to God void. All I am really saying here is have faith in what God said believe what he said not what you see around you or in another but what God has already said.

So it comes down to yes faith. Its as it was written we say we have faith yet no works. Faith with out works is dead. What so ever you desire when you pray believe (hello faith) you receive it and you shall have it. So that is faith working..what you desire you know you already have yet in the natural you can not see it. This ALWAYS works since when we pray we make sure what we are praying for goes inline with the word of God.

Sorry I made this long so hard for me to just put in a few lines like most here always do.. I am so amazed at you guys do it. Not here to debate this. Well why fix something within my own life that always works? I will say this also. I have also seen read countless yes countless people crying out to God and God moved and healed them. His mercy His grace.. is far beyond anything I can imagine

 

[Brad D.]

God is far more concerned with our Spiritual condition than He is our Physical condition. If He needs to upset our physical condition in order to bring about something far more pure in our Spiritual Condition He will every time. He has done this endlessly in even His most mature Saints. There is nothing more Biblical or Scriptural as that.

He did heal the sick. But He said He came for the "Sick". He was not talking about the physically sick, but the spiritually sick. You see Him almost sigh every time when the people continue to seek Him for the outward signs and refusing to get at why He really came. The paradigm has shifted from the outward to the inward in the New Testament. The people were refusing to make the adjustment. Many still are today.

I did want to add I did not mean to imply God doesn't heal anymore or there is never an appropriate time to pray for healing. My prayer for people unless God has specifically directed me to pray for healing is that He would take this person through whatever they need to be taken through to bring them to a deeper knowledge of Him. If in their particular case it is healing praise God! But Christianity today seems to be geared to the mindset this is what we need to pray for every time no matter what. I see this as being far from true.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

There are a number of Biblical and theological principles at work. (I am really use to answering this question against some of the Word of Faith, claims of my distant past, especially people like Ken Hagin who were extremely emphatic that everybody should be healed).


1) Kenosis is the basic idea of the Son of God emptying himself to take on the role of a servant taken from Philippians 2,but is also used for Christians in general that we likewise need to embrace suffering as a part of following Christ, and that doing this is often used redemptively. This was something often argued against by the WOF I knew in the early 90s who preached against "God teaching us lessons" through suffering. They actively argue against it, saying "that is what the Bible is for". There however is Biblical precedent for it, in the famous "thorn in the flesh" passage Paul describes the suffering situation that God would not take away from him as a "gift".



2) Providence is another major theme. God sometimes allows problems and difficulties to last a long time (by our perspective) to ultimately serve a greater purpose. A good example is when the disciples asked Christ why the man was born blind, if it was because his sin, or the sin of his parents and Christ said it was to allow the glory of God to be revealed. (John 9:3).



3) Besides all this God is interested in developing us as people and our various unique trials and difficulties can help with developing the unique ministry that God has for each of us. (Besides helping to develop in the fruit of the spirit, being conformed to the image of Christ etc. alluded to in point 1) Rick Warren for instance has a saying that "we often minister the greatest out of our area of deepest hurt". There are lots of analogies for this kind of thing one of the most interesting one of recent times is the Japanese art of restoring vases and broken pottery, where gold dust is mixed in with the glue to make such broken vessels more beautiful than they originally were. That is a kind of picture of what God wants to do with us.

 

[jiminpa]

How many times did Jesus refuse to heal someone? Jesus is God. That's how many times God refuses to heal now. Our systemic unbelief is what disconnects us from God's power. How many times did Jesus rebuke the disciples for their unbelief? What prevented Him from ministering in His own town? The church has elevated that same kind of unbelief to some sort of dark virtue.

 

[mourningdove~]

God is far more concerned with our Spiritual condition than He is our Physical condition. If He needs to upset our physical condition in order to bring about something far more pure in our Spiritual Condition He will every time. He has done this endlessly in even His most mature Saints. There is nothing more Biblical or Scriptural as that.

QFT

 

[Brad D.]

There are a number of Biblical and theological principles at work. (I am really use to answering this question against some of the Word of Faith, claims of my distant past, especially people like Ken Hagin who were extremely emphatic that everybody should be healed).


1) Kenosis is the basic idea of the Son of God emptying himself to take on the role of a servant taken from Philippians 2,but is also used for Christians in general that we likewise need to embrace suffering as a part of following Christ, and that doing this is often used redemptively. This was something often argued against by the WOF I knew in the early 90s who preached against "God teaching us lessons" through suffering. They actively argue against it, saying "that is what the Bible is for". There however is Biblical precedent for it, in the famous "thorn in the flesh" passage Paul describes the suffering situation that God would not take away from him as a "gift".



2) Providence is another major theme. God sometimes allows problems and difficulties to last a long time (by our perspective) to ultimately serve a greater purpose. A good example is when the disciples asked Christ why the man was born blind, if it was because his sin, or the sin of his parents and Christ said it was to allow the glory of God to be revealed. (John 9:3).



3) Besides all this God is interested in developing us as people and our various unique trials and difficulties can help with developing the unique ministry that God has for each of us. (Besides helping to develop in the fruit of the spirit, being conformed to the image of Christ etc. alluded to in point 1) Rick Warren for instance has a saying that "we often minister the greatest out of our area of deepest hurt". There are lots of analogies for this kind of thing one of the most interesting one of recent times is the Japanese art of restoring vases and broken pottery, where gold dust is mixed in with the glue to make such broken vessels more beautiful than they originally were. That is a kind of picture of what God wants to do with us.

View attachment 322614

Really liked your post. The picture illustration was priceless!

 

[jiminpa]

I'm on a soapbox about this because I stumbled a while back and needed the body to help restore me, as the scripture says. The systemic unbelief of the people calling themselves the church is hindering my restoration. Thankfully God is bigger than the weakness of His body, (myself included). I am in the process of repenting of my own unbelief.

This unbelief that the church, perversely, carries as a badge of honor is killing us, literally and spiritually, and hindering our caring for each other and the lost. It does not come from God.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.

Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

As a Christian, I guess our attitude to receiving healing should be to continually seek it, and to be persistent, and to stand on God's word.

Luke 11:8-9 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs. "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Mark 11:23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.

As an example, I often pray for people who are sick, and some are healed. Yet, I currently have a bowel disease (diverticulitis) and a fistula between the bladder and bowel. I pray about it often, so far God has not removed the fistula or bowl disease, but he has removed any of the conditions that go with it. The hospital sees it as rather strange that I have no symptoms. But for me, this is a good thing, for while I have no symptoms I don't need an operation, and boy is it a big operation that would be needed, that can have many complications. So God has given me partial healing, at least in the sense that I don't have to have an operation. But I will still persistently pray for healing.

 

[jiminpa]

As a Christian, I guess our attitude to receiving healing should be to continually seek it, and to be persistent, and to stand on God's word.

Luke 11:8-9 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs. "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Mark 11:23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.

As an example, I often pray for people who are sick, and some are healed. Yet, I currently have a bowel disease (diverticulitis) and a fistula between the bladder and bowel. I pray about it often, so far God has not removed the fistula or bowl disease, but he has removed any of the conditions that go with it. The hospital sees it as rather strange that I have no symptoms. But for me, this is a good thing, for while I have no symptoms I don't need an operation, and boy is it a big operation that would be needed, that can have many complications. So God has given me partial healing, at least in the sense that I don't have to have an operation. But I will still persistently pray for healing.

I'm happy to stand with you, trusting God and His word for your complete healing.

 

[Brad D.]

I'm on a soapbox about this because I stumbled a while back and needed the body to help restore me, as the scripture says. The systemic unbelief of the people calling themselves the church is hindering my restoration. Thankfully God is bigger than the weakness of His body, (myself included). I am in the process of repenting of my own unbelief.

This unbelief that the church carries as a badge of honor is killing us, literally and spiritually, and hindering our caring for each other and the lost. It does not come from God.

I'm on a soapbox about this because I stumbled a while back and needed the body to help restore me, as the scripture says. The systemic unbelief of the people calling themselves the church is hindering my restoration. Thankfully God is bigger than the weakness of His body, (myself included). I am in the process of repenting of my own unbelief.

This unbelief that the church carries as a badge of honor is killing us, literally and spiritually, and hindering our caring for each other and the lost. It does not come from God.

Dear Brother, I have no idea what you are going through, but I am willing to listen. But as to faith, there is not greater faith than to pray not to be delivered out of it, but be delivered in it. Christ did not defeat the enemy by raising the dead, or healing the sick, but by dying on the cross ( Colossians 2:15). He invites us also into the fellowship of His sufferings if we will have it. I think there is no greater faith we can show Him than to say, "Whatever the cost precious Lord you get what you want out of this, do not let me get what I want out of it." The bible is filled with such enigmas.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I'm happy to stand with you, trusting God and His word for your complete healing.

Thank you for your faith, and prayer.

 

[Brad D.]

I feel the Lord would have me move on from this conversation. The cross and suffering will never fill churches I know. But it is the only thing that can get to heart of what He is really after. God can and will heal at times. There is no doubt. And I pray His blessings be upon you if that is what He so chooses. But the cross for us who are being trained by it "Is the Power and Wisdom of God." He admonished them for continuing to follow Him just for the bread. His broken body was the bread. But they wanted no part of that. For some the prison doors opened. For John the Baptist they didn't. The Executioner came for John, for others the doors swung. But Jesus sent word back to John, "Blessed is He who is not offended in Me"

Paul saw this paradox clearly when he said, "I now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up in my body what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body which is the church." He was not a man seeking to be delivered out of his afflictions. He saw them as opportunities to gain Christ, not things to be gotten rid of.

If this belief is what you mean by:

This unbelief that the church, perversely, carries as a badge of honor is killing us, literally and spiritually, and hindering our caring for each other and the lost. It does not come from God

Then I am guilty as charged. I hold no ill grudge. You are my brother and in my prayers. I will say no more and let you all get back to your thread.

 

[jiminpa]

Dear Brother, I have no idea what you are going through, but I am willing to listen. But as to faith, there is not greater faith than to pray not to be delivered out of it, but be delivered in it. Christ did not defeat the enemy by raising the dead, but by dying on the cross. He invites us also into the fellowship of His sufferings if we will have it. I think there is no greater faith we can show Him than to say, "Whatever the cost precious Lord you get what you want out of this, do not let me get what I want out of it." The bible is filled with such enigmas.

I need to be very careful how I word this, because I want to convey my heart on this. There is just so much of that that is not what the Bible shows.

Jesus did defeat the enemy by raising the dead, first in a relatively microscopic victory when He raised Lazarus, and then fully when He rose from the dead Himself. Jesus healed the sick and set the captives free out of compassion, but we hide behind bad doctrine to turn a blind eye and a hard heart toward those who need us to minister like Jesus. If we follow Jesus we will keep His word and His word says that we will do what He did and greater. But religion has a better idea than what Jesus said.

Jesus suffered persecution unto death. If we share His suffering, I would expect that is the suffering He experienced, not some other suffering that let's us play martyr, while denying the world and the body of Christ the freedom Jesus tells us to minister.

 

[jiminpa]

I feel the Lord would have me move on from this conversation. The cross and suffering will never fill churches I know. But it is the only thing that can get to heart of what He is really after. God can and will heal at times. There is no doubt. And I pray His blessings be upon you if that is what He so chooses. But the cross for us who are being trained by it "Is the Power and Wisdom of God." He admonished them for continuing to follow Him just for the bread. His broken body was the bread. But they wanted no part of that. For some the prison doors opened. For John the Baptist they didn't. The Executioner came for John, for others the doors swung. But Jesus sent word back to John, "Blessed is He who is not offended in Me"

Paul saw this paradox clearly when he said, "I now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up in my body what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body which is the church." He was not a man seeking to be delivered out of his afflictions. He saw them as opportunities to gain Christ, not things to be gotten rid of.

If this belief is what you mean by:



Then I am guilty as charged. I hold no ill grudge. You are my brother and in my prayers. I will say no more and let you all get back to your thread.

If you are guilty, why not repent?

 

[mourningdove~]

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

1. No limits.

2. I would tell them to trust God. Keep trusting God. And never stop trusting Him.

Notice I did not say to keep trusting God 'to heal'. Praying for healing is fine, but a person can get very stuck spiritually, and for longs periods of time, maybe even years, a lifetime, when they stay fixed on the subject of their healing.

Keep trusting God.

Keep trusting in His Love. Keep trusting in His Mercy. Keep trusting in His Goodness. Keep trusting. And keep trusting in His Knowing what is best for our salvation and for the salvation of those around us. For that is what is most important to Him.

Tremendous spiritual growth happens ... when we quit 'fighting it' and accept the crosses God sends or allows into our lives ...

... and yes, I do mean tremendous.

God bless.

 

[jiminpa]

1. No limits.

2. I would tell them to trust God. Keep trusting God. And never stop trusting Him.

Notice I did not say to keep trusting God 'to heal'. Praying for healing is fine, but a person can get very stuck spiritually, and for longs periods of time, maybe even years, a lifetime, when they stay fixed on the subject of their healing.

Keep trusting God.

Keep trusting in His Love. Keep trusting in His Mercy. Keep trusting in His Goodness. Keep trusting. And keep trusting in His Knowing what is best for our salvation and for the salvation of those around us. For that is what is most important to Him.

Tremendous spiritual growth happens ... when we quit 'fighting it' and accept the crosses God sends or allows into our lives ...

... and yes, I do mean tremendous.

God bless.

But not trusting God to keep His word is, by definition, not trusting God.