Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

[jiminpa]

No, I said that we should be able to see the truth of the Bible IN our experience.
Jesus is alive. How do we know? We have met with him and asked him into our lives.
Jesus still gives eternal life. How do we know? He has saved us and is saving others.
The Bible is not a academic textbook. How do we know? God speaks to us through it today.
The Holy Spirit is real. How do we know? We can receive him and know his presence and guidance.
The gifts or the Spirit are real and present today. How do we know? We can receive/have received them.

Our experience should confirm Scripture.
"You ask me how I know he lives; he lives within my heart."

If a Christian teaches that the Bible says that Jesus ALWAYS heals in response to prayer, and someone were to say "well what about .....? They believe, and they're in a wheelchair."
What is the answer?
The Christian is not going to say that the Bible is wrong.
It is highly unlikely they will say that their understanding/interpretation is incorrect.
I have been told by a few folks - mainly on here - that the problem is that I did not have enough faith. In other words, it was my fault. Such Good News - not.



There we go. It's OUR fault - the sufferers fault - for their lack of belief.
But in any case, Jesus did not promise physical healing to all believers.



Who says God isn't moving?



Not at all.

I've said it before; I was told several times on here that Jesus promised healing to all. But I could not expect to see healing, from M.E, for myself, because I did not believe - meaning, I didn't accept that doctrine.
Guess what? I still don't believe it, yet God healed me of M.E. 13 years ago.
I saw God moving in my life and healing - not because of any faith/lack of faith of my own; but because he is gracious, loving, faithful. I have seen him moving in my life since I became a Christian - and even more so since my healing.

My faith may not be as strong as it could be, but I would never blame God if I was showing a lack of faith. It is God who has been with me all the way; loving me in sickness and in health, in my doubts and in my certainties, in my knowledge and in the times that I have proved to be wrong or have misunderstood.

This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It means that the man through whom the Lord did many miracles had in this case to leave behind a sick colleague still sick.

'I left Trophimus sick in Miletus'

However you would like to view it - it does not change God's outlook, nor His will.

Matt 8:When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. 2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”

3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
​

Is God a respecter of persons? Does His will change from person to person?

 

[Always in His Presence]

This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.

Ditto -

 

[Strong in Him]

It speaks directly to physical healing - and makes another connection between forgiveness of sins and healing of the body.

That's how you see it.
I am saying that if something is true, it is always true.
How many people who believe in Jesus have eternal life? All of them.
Why?
Because he promised it.

Told not yet by who??? Unless God has changed, it has never happened in the whole of the New Testament - when did His will change?

By God.
If he doesn't heal someone immediately - and 99% of the time he did in Scripture - then he is saying "wait". Wait for his timing.
I though it was you who reminded me that God sometimes heals gradually?

Trust God for what?

Trust that God knows what he's doing.
Trust that he has heard our prayer, even if it doesn't seem like it.
Trust that he loves us, will help us and work for good IN our situation.
Trust that when God is for us, nothing can be against us.
Trust that not getting the answer to prayer that we want, when we want it, does not mean that God has forgotten us.

I personally cannot judge the Word of God by human experiences.

I see that our experiences conform the truth of God's word.

Are all healed? Obviously no,

And yet you are saying that God has promised healing as part of the atonement.
Anyone who believe in, accepts, trusts in Christ's death should, according to you, also be physically healed. Yet some aren't - because God did not promise us perfect health. Our physical lives are not as much of a priority as being forgiven, reconciled to God and given eternal life. This is why Jesus came.

Are all saved? obviously no,

No, but 100% of those who accept Jesus and believe in him, ARE saved. Because he promised it.
Less than 100% of those who pray in faith for physical healing are healed. Why? Because he didn't promise it.
He sometimes heals us anyway - whether we have radiant faith or lots of doubts.
That is because of HIS mercy, not anything we have done by having enough faith.

I cannot look into the Word of God and judge His word by human experience - if I did I would say things that are just not scriptural.

I never said you should. I said that we can expect our experience to show/reflect/validate what is in God's word.

For what it is worth - healing has been a mainstay of my ministry for more than three decades. I spent a number of years as an instructor in a healing school where were 71 of 100 people who were diagnosed terminal were completely healed - doctor confirmed -

Fantastic.
I never said God couldn't heal.

I weep for the loss of the 29 - but rejoice over the 71.

As would I.

If you look at the times in Scripture where people were not healed, not one time had to do with the will of God, nor His purpose for their lives. Not one time was someone turned away or told 'not yet', but every single one received what they asked for. Every single one.

And as I said; so what?
We already have more faith than they had then.
We cannot see Jesus yet we believe. Some of them didn't believe when he was standing right in front of them - yet sometimes he still healed, despite the state of their faith.
We have the cross, the empty tomb, the Holy Spirit, the NT and decades of Christian witness - yet we have not seen Jesus. We walk by faith and not by sight.
Some are healed immediately they pray and ask for it, some are healed gradually or a short time later; some aren't healed at all.

That my friend is the difference in what you and I believe.

It seems to me that the difference between what you and I believe - in a nutshell - is:
You say that if Christians aren't healed when they ask for it, it's their responsibility for not having enough faith.
I say that if a Christian isn't healed when they pray for healing; ask God what he is saying to them IN that and what can they learn from it?
You say that is not a valid question; that didn't happen to anyone in the NT, therefore that can't happen today.
You seem to be saying that God has to heal.
I am saying there are times when he doesn't, or that healing is not a priority.
You don't accept that God can work like that.
You saying healing is dependent on faith.
I say it isn't and give examples.
You won't accept them because I am "judging God's word by experience".

 

[Strong in Him]

This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.

Agreed.
All the best with "getting it to work for you."

 

[Always in His Presence]

It seems to me that the difference between what you and I believe - in a nutshell - is:
You say that if Christians aren't healed when they ask for it, it's their own fault for not having enough faith.

I would politely request you remove this bolded statement - you can go back and re read all my posts - I NEVER ONCE said that.

Please be honest and remove this inaccurate statement.

 

[lismore]

However you would like to view it - it does not change God's outlook, nor His will.

Hello! I would view it the way the scripture records it, Trophimus was left sick at Miletus and Timothy was advised to use a little wine for his frequent stomach illnesses by a man who God used to raise the dead. Perhaps it's not as cut and dried as you believe?

You seem to have moved the goalposts slightly. First there were no examples in the NT, now there are examples but they do not change your assumptions.

Matt 8:When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. 2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”

3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
​

Is God a respecter of persons? Does His will change from person to person?

Because Jesus healed someone it is God's will to heal everyone everywhere, instantly whenever they or you wish it, regardless of any other consideration? Your assumption sounds more like the human being trying to put himself in the place of God than anything else. Jesus healed a blind man, in the book of Acts the Lord and 'the hand of the Lord' struck people with blindness for his purpose.

Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind for a time, not even able to see the light of the sun.” Immediately mist and darkness came over him, and he groped about, seeking someone to lead him by the hand. (Acts 13:11)

The outlook and will changed a little for that one, didn't they? In a different situation, in a different context the Lord acted differently.

But we can say with confidence 'Will not the judge of the whole earth do right? (Genesis 18:25).
God Bless

 

[lismore]

I say that if a Christian isn't healed when they pray for healing; ask God what he is saying to them IN that and what can they learn from it?

Hello! Yes, sometimes. That's because we're dealing with a personal entity, not a vending machine. A personal entity who knows infinitely more about every situation than we can imagine. Why then would God do our will, are we not meant to do his? As Jesus said 'Not my will but yours be done'. God Bless

 

[Always in His Presence]

Because Jesus healed someone it is God's will to heal everyone everywhere, instantly whenever they or you wish it, regardless of any other consideration?

Question: Where did I say that?
Answer: No where, not one time.

Yes or no - does God's will change depending on the person?

I believe it is 100% God's will to heal everyone.
I believe it is 100% God's will to save everyone.
I believe it is 100% God's will for people to live in peace.
I believe it is 100% God's will to Baptize every believer in the Holy Spirit.

I also realize God's will is not always done on earth. It doesn't change His will.

 

[lismore]

Yes or no - does God's will change depending on the person?

Hello! Thanks for your reply. What would you make of this passage (God speaking):

The Lord said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).

In the NT Jesus healed blind men, others like the sorcerer he struck with blindness. Does seem like two opposites depending on context. God Bless

 

[lismore]

This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.

It's good to talk. Some believers in some places don't have anyone to talk to about spiritual things. We're blessed.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

This is just going in circles, and we've pretty much exhausted it, so thank you for the discussion.

Same ending that has happened for years here on CF and other sites.
I will discuss it just so far. Those with ears will hear...

 

[jiminpa]

Same ending that has happened for years here on CF and other sites.
I will discuss it just so far. Those with ears will hear...

True, but once upon a time, here, it continued to devolve ad infinitum, until people actually left the site for all of he strife. We seem to be doing better.

 

[WintersDust]

Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.

Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

In short to answer the question in the subject line, no.

 

[Guojing]

The same one who said we are grafted into the vine and there is no difference between Jew and Greek.

But there is a difference between Abraham and the rest of us correct?

Otherwise, you have to accept that anyone can claim Genesis 15:5 for themselves too.

 

[Guojing]

However you would like to view it - it does not change God's outlook, nor His will.

Matt 8:When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. 2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.”

3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
​

Is God a respecter of persons? Does His will change from person to person?

Notice he has given you a scriptural example of Paul

• healing at will with handkerchiefs in the Acts period,
• to having to leave his co-worker sick after the Acts period.

And you still prefer to take the events in the 4 gospels to form your doctrine?

Admit it, you will not change your mind no matter what scripture evidence people present.

 

[Always in His Presence]

But there is a difference between Abraham and the rest of us correct?

Otherwise, you have to accept that anyone can claim Genesis 15:5 for themselves too.

Gen 15:5 is a promise to Abram - read your scripture -

Yes, we are a descendent of Abraham through adoption.

Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.​

So, no, because of Jesus' Atonement there is no difference .

Thanks for asking.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Notice he has given you a scriptural example of Paul

• healing at will with handkerchiefs in the Acts period,
• to having to leave his co-worker sick after the Acts period.

And you still prefer to take the events in the 4 gospels to form your doctrine?

Admit it, you will not change your mind no matter what scripture evidence people present.

Show me that he was never healed.

Yes or no - does God's will change depending on the person?

I believe it is 100% God's will to heal everyone.
I believe it is 100% God's will to save everyone.
I believe it is 100% God's will for people to live in peace.
I believe it is 100% God's will to Baptize every believer in the Holy Spirit.

I also realize God's will is not always done on earth. It doesn't change His will.

 

[Guojing]

Gen 15:5 is a promise to Abram - read your scripture -

Yes, we are a descendent of Abraham through adoption.

So, no, because of Jesus' Atonement there is no difference .

Thanks for asking.

So, because Genesis 15:5 is a promise specifically to Abram, no one else can claim it.

Likewise, I am trying to show you that even though there is no difference between Jews and Greeks in the Body of Christ, that does not mean that we can claim promises specifically to the nation of Israel.

 

[Always in His Presence]

So, because Genesis 15:5 is a promise specifically to Abram, no one else can claim it.

Likewise, I am trying to show you that even though there is no difference between Jews and Greeks in the Body of Christ, that does not mean that we can claim promises specifically to the nation of Israel.

incorrect:

Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.​