Anti-Potheads

[Braunwyn]

Pot never really did much for me, but I do think psychotropics can be a benefit depending on the person and its intended use.

 

[Protocol11]

Different state of mind + different perception on reality = not your actual reality. It's the reality you perceive in a different way with a different state of mind.
You said it yourself, pot makes your life more enjoyable and pleasant, so while you're under the influence of pot, your view on your life will be different. It's really that simple.

Yea, but that's not a bad thing.

You can consider it enhanced, I'm just telling you it's not.

How do you know?

And if you look at the research, without a government paranoid pothead state of mind you would see the same.

The government has an anti-pot agenda. If they were to come out with a pro-pot study, it would undermine their efforts to keep it banned. That's why nothing they say can be trusted. For God's sake, they don't even recognize the medicinal value of pot, and they target med-pot users. You'ld have to be certifiably insane to take their word on anything they have to say about pot.

Denial is the first symptom, did you know?

The only thing I deny is that government is a good source of truth when researching the topic. That should be obvious.

Something that makes you feel happy does not automatically make it enhanced.

It does a lot more than make me feel happy.

 

[FedererFan]

If an adult decides they want to use marijuana for whatever use they feel would be appropriate for themselves (so long as it doesn't endanger others, but I can't really imagine how pot would hurt anyone else despite those commercials on TV), nobody should tell them that they cannot.

What about all this freedom that America always talks about? How is this not the very definition of freedom? Doing what you want to do with your own body.

 

[Chesterton]

I think that, um, people should...um, kind of like...you know...the government...um...I mean... What was the question?

Oh yeah, the poll - I voted "Phish rulez!!!" (I think)

 

[Ectezus]

Yea, but that's not a bad thing.

Ah the good ol' yes-no argument. The drug user wants to keep his drugs and says they are awesome, the non-drug user thinks they are not. If you think it's wise to deliberately alter your perception of reality then go right ahead and smoke your pot. I'm just telling you I don't need it in my life. Reality is "enjoyable", "pleasant" and "sensual" enough without the need for some drug to fluff it up.

The government has an anti-pot agenda. If they were to come out with a pro-pot study, it would undermine their efforts to keep it banned.

Oh yeah, who cares about the independent studies anyway. Besides a topic just isn't complete without a good government conspiracy eh?

- Ectezus

 

[mattman59]

I've tried it to get to know the feeling and I've experienced that. I know the effects it causes and I consider it a waste of money to pay to get smoke into my lungs. I honestly don't see why I should "really try" to get high. Like I said, from my experience it's mostly only junkies and losers that smoke regularly. And I don't want to be associated with either of those.


Michael Phelps isn't a regular smoker. Lets not play the name game. You won't win this.

How about the fact that 90% of people who admit to smoking more than once a year are employeed?

hxxp://www.oas.samhsa.gov/NSDUH/2k7NSDUH/2k7results.cfm#Ch2

I say it 'clouds your judgment' because it alters your normal way of thinking. You can give it another term if you want too. You say it makes you think outside the box. I guess it depends on how comfortable you are with the "inside of your box". For me it solves all my problems. It's logical and efficient. I don't want to smoke pot to get outside my box because I don't have the particular need to escape reality in order to solve problems.


- Ectezus

What doesn't "cloud your judgement". Humans are insanely complex creatures and our bodies react to even the smallest environmental changes. Introduction of millions compounds will alter your perception and with many you won't even notice.

It is a subjective experience. Pot helped me to quit drinking, it helps me to write and brainstorm. On the other hand it makes some people extremely parinoid.

Some people like it, some don't but it boggles my mind why people feel like they need to stop me from using it.

 

[mattman59]

I am against pot. I understand why people would smoke and I don't have a problem if it relieves extreme physical pain.

I simply want to limit, as much as possible, any and all psychological and physiological addictions. Besides, it isnt exactly healthy and there are more constructive ways to spend my time.

The same can be said about sports. I personally feel like filling up your brain with statistics and going to sporting events are an extreme waste of time. Should I be able to ban YOU from sports?

 

[mattman59]

An enhancer but not an escape huh? That almost sounds like a paradox.
If your reality without pot is not as enjoyable, pleasent and sensual then yes it's an escape from the actual reality.
Just because the new perceived reality after smoking pot is a more pleasant one does not mean it's enhanced. It's altered. You can argue that it helps you, maybe in times of stress, sure, but fact is it alters your view and thus your judgment of your actual reality.

- Ectezus

As a chef and someone who enjoys good food I can see a MASSIVE difference in my perception of taste, smell and texture. I can't explain it but if I had to guess I would say that it is somehow better utilizing the fixed amount of taste receptors we are all born with.

If you want to call it an escape then go ahead but don't forget to list alllllllllllllllllllllllllll the other "escapes" that fit into your grouping. Everything from sugar to salt to long walks in the park on a sunny day.

 

[mattman59]

Considering my opinion about most Hollywood actors I do not really find that a particularly strong pro-smoking argument.In fact, it would rather be a good explanatory excuse.

How about one of the greatest thinkers of our time?

 

[canukian]

it destroys lives and families.

i hate the drug, not the zombie.

 

[Ben-AG]

How about one of the greatest thinkers of our time?

According to who?

 

[mattman59]

That quite possibly was one of the most closed-minded responses I have heard in awhile. Ignoring the fact that the study provides 11 justifying sources and is published on the National Insitute of Health's website, am I simply suppose to take your word for it and believe it is all a lie?

Until you provide a credible source that asserts that the usage of marijuana in all aspects is safe, I think not.


I have also taken the time to acquire primary articles regarding the risks of marijuana from other sources so as to ease your uneasiness with the information provided from a "biased government." I hope you will consider them.

Respiratory Effects of Marijuana and Tobacco Use in a U.S. Sample
-The impact of marijuana smoking on respiratory health has some significant similarities to that of tobacco smoking. Efforts to prevent and reduce marijuana use, such as advising patients to quit and providing referrals for support and assistance, may have substantial public health benefits associated with decreased respiratory health problems.
-Self-reported respiratory symptoms included chronic bronchitis, frequent phlegm, shortness of breath, frequent wheezing, chest sounds without a cold, and pneumonia. A medical exam also provided an overall chest finding and a measure of reduced pulmonary functioning. Marijuana use was associated with respiratory symptoms of chronic bronchitis (P =.02), coughing on most days (P =.001), phlegm production (P =.0005), wheezing (P <.0001), and chest sounds without a cold (P =.02).

Neuropsychological functioning in adolescent marijuana users: Subtle deficits detectable after a month of abstinence
-Neuropsychological assessments were conducted after >23 days of monitored abstinence. After controlling for lifetime alcohol use and depressive symptoms, adolescent marijuana users demonstrated slower psychomotor speed (p < .05), and poorer complex attention (p < .04), story memory (p < .04), and planning and sequencing ability (p < .001) compared with controls

Effects of marijuana on neurophysiological signals of working and episodic memory
-The results suggest that marijuana disrupted both sustained and transient attention processes resulting in impaired memory task performance. In subjects most affected by marijuana a pronounced ERP difference between previously studied words and new distracter words was also reduced, suggesting disruption of neural mechanisms underlying memory for recent study episodes.

[Adverse effects of marijuana] [Rev Prat. 2005] - PubMed Result
-When admitted in an emergency unit, young patients often present acute neurological effects of smoked marijuana. Other chronic adverse effects of marijuana are probably underestimated: postural syncope, arteritis, chronic bronchitis, amnesia. Marijuana may trigger a myocardial infarction and have a vasospastic effect. Marijuana has impairing effects on driving ability. Smoked marijuana is a potential respiratory tract carcinogen.
* Sorry could not post full article due to copyright infringements- You must subscribe to view the full article. The abstract explains the results.

The adverse health effects of cannabis use: What a...[Int J Drug Policy. 2009] - PubMed Result
-The evidence strongly suggests that cannabis can adversely affect some users, especially adolescents who initiate use early and young adults who become regular users. These adverse effects probably include increased risks of: motor vehicle crashes, the development of cannabis dependence, impaired respiratory function, cardiovascular disease, psychotic symptoms, and adverse outcomes of adolescent development, namely, poorer educational outcomes and an increased likelihood of using other illicit drugs.
* Sorry could not post full article due to copyright infringements- You must subscribe to view the full article. The abstract explains the results.


Hope this helps.

-Ben

The NIH and all US government studies tend to show quite a bit of bias, I like to mix them in with studies done across the pond where pot is not as demonized.

I'll go through the studies you posted point by point later but ponder on a couple of things first.

Find me one case of an adult pot-only smoker suffering any long term effects that can be directly attributed to pot. Remember you have 10,000 years of recorded use so that is a pretty large sample size.

Next, take a look at where these studies are conducted. Many are done in hospitals and since only sick people go to hospitals you have a major bias right off the bat. Would you sample people in a prison and then conclude that these results could be extrapolated out to the population as a whole?

Lastly I say, "so what?" Even if one puff gave me cancer who are you to tell me what I can and can't do?

 

[mattman59]

Ah the good ol' yes-no argument. The drug user wants to keep his drugs and says they are awesome, the non-drug user thinks they are not. If you think it's wise to deliberately alter your perception of reality then go right ahead and smoke your pot. I'm just telling you I don't need it in my life. Reality is "enjoyable", "pleasant" and "sensual" enough without the need for some drug to fluff it up.


Oh yeah, who cares about the independent studies anyway. Besides a topic just isn't complete without a good government conspiracy eh?

- Ectezus

He does not represent the view of the mainstream pro-freedom community. Every group has fringe elements and you are looking at the one I detest the most.

 

[mattman59]

According to who?

Anyone who has read pretty much anything he has written or is at all involved with the scientific or mathematical community.

 

[mattman59]

it destroys lives and families.

i hate the drug, not the zombie.

Then why is British Columbia not filled to the brim with "zombies"? I would love to see you back up your arguments with facts. I can cite the little fact that 90% of those of use who smoke more than once a year are employed.

 

[Braunwyn]

I think that, um, people should...um, kind of like...you know...the government...um...I mean... What was the question?

Oh yeah, the poll - I voted "Phish rulez!!!" (I think)

he he lol

According to who?

Anyone who has read pretty much anything he has written or is at all involved with the scientific or mathematical community.

I was gonna stop with anyone who knows how to read, but ok.

 

[Wyzaard]

I say it 'clouds your judgment' because it alters your normal way of thinking.

Why shouldn't we alter our "normal" way of thinking from time to time? Why must we eschew short-duration altered states?

 

[Ben-AG]

The NIH and all US government studies tend to show quite a bit of bias, I like to mix them in with studies done across the pond where pot is not as demonized.

There are studies where cannibus has medicinal purposes; I am not arguing that point, but the good does not outweigh the bad.

Find me one case of an adult pot-only smoker suffering any long term effects that can be directly attributed to pot. Remember you have 10,000 years of recorded use so that is a pretty large sample size.

For the sake of argument, if there was not one case of an adult pot-only smoker suffering any long term effects that can be directly attributed to pot, does that take any weight away from the studies I have already provided you? Is that not enough? Would people have to constantly fall over and die after cannibus use for you to see that it can be harmful?

Next, take a look at where these studies are conducted. Many are done in hospitals and since only sick people go to hospitals you have a major bias right off the bat. Would you sample people in a prison and then conclude that these results could be extrapolated out to the population as a whole?

You have a valid point in that only sick people go to the hospitals. I never made the claim that all people who used cannibus got sick or had ill-effects, but that particular study shows that there are possibilites of such.

Also, only one of the studies extrapulated data from a hospital. That eliminates your so-called "bias" from all the other sources.

Lastly I say, "so what?" Even if one puff gave me cancer who are you to tell me what I can and can't do?

I am not attempting to "tell you what you can and can't do." As I stated in my first post as my motive:

Just some things to think about...

 

[Ectezus]

Lastly I say, "so what?" Even if one puff gave me cancer who are you to tell me what I can and can't do?

Who? Any democratic society that wants it's citizens healthy and productive.
What about national healthcare? Should tax payers provide the money for your illness and inability to work for the rest of your life just because you want to freedom to make a mistake?

Get real. Life is full of restrictions. All this talk about "I want the freedom to do anything I want" is a cop out.

Now I'm not saying pot makes you unable to work or anything, but if you are going to use arguments like "I should be able to get instant cancer if I want too" then you lose all credability and clearly have no understanding how society works.

- Ectezus

 

[Braunwyn]

Who? Any democratic society that wants it's citizens healthy and productive.
What about national healthcare? Should tax payers provide the money for your illness and inability to work for the rest of your life just because you want to freedom to make a mistake?

Get real. Life is full of restrictions. All this talk about "I want the freedom to do anything I want" is a cop out.

Now I'm not saying pot makes you unable to work or anything, but if you are going to use arguments like "I should be able to get instant cancer if I want too" then you lose all credability and clearly have no understanding how society works.

- Ectezus

I think there's a cultural difference here. In the states, wanting the right to do whatever, is pretty standard, even though there are laws up the wazoo in the US. We could out law way more but I doubt that would be a good idea. Do you eat animal products? That's risky business that results in serious health issues for a lot of people. Do you jog in the city? If so, you're at risk for lung cancer (sadly). Smoking pot, while refraining from operating machinery, seems to be on par with many risks we encounter daily. The argument for behaviors that include risk is pretty common (seat belts, eating trans fats, soda, sweets, etc), in New England at least.