Anonymous Christianity

[Albion]

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WRONG.... in the case of BOTH the answer is no.

Why are you shouting "Wrong" at me? I said "no" to the one group and didn't give a reply to the other. Mainly, I was asking for a clarification of the OP's question.

 

[Ken Rank]

Can a non-Christian be saved without confessing the name of Christ?

Basically the OP is inspired by meeting various Muslims who are clearly aware of their sins and repentant of them , who are trusting in Gods mercy for their deliverance.

"Confessing the name" is the question. If you believe it means you have to "say" the name word "Jesus" or "Yeshua" (or whatever you prefer) in order to be "saved" then that is one thing. But what about factoring in the Hebrew word for name and its meaning? Shem (name) deals more with the name bearer's character, reputation and authority then it does saying a word like Jesus or Yeshua. My point is, in that case, "confessing his name" would be confessing his authority, his Lordship, His divine character and not so much repeating one word. That still rules out the Muslim who doesn't recognize Yeshua as Lord, but doesn't make it so we have to say a magic word to be saved either. Because if our salvation hangs on saying a certain word, then those who can't speak at all can't get saved?

 

[redleghunter]

Can a non-Christian be saved without confessing the name of Christ?

Basically the OP is inspired by meeting various Muslims who are clearly aware of their sins and repentant of them , who are trusting in Gods mercy for their deliverance.

Many world religions have contrite repentance as a pillar of their faith.

However, in Christianity the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ is central.

What is the substitutionary atonement?

 

[mindlight]

Can't see how a Moslem can avoid acknowledging Christ, The Quran certainly advocates that it is he (Isa=Jesus) that God our Father has appointed to judge the living and the dead in the last days.

A different question: Is belief in the pre-existence of Jesus, his homoousian sonship, hypostatic union, death & resurrection an implicit requirement of salvation? On the basis of A.Paul's testimony I'd have to say yes to the last two & no to the first three!

I wonder how many Christians could explain what it means to worship a Triune God or describe the nature of Christ - how he can be both man and God in the same person. Yet they are Christians who have called on Christ to save them. But the biggest problem with Islam is that it has lies embedded in it regarding the redemption mechanism of death on the cross and resurrection. Neither happened in the Quran. This is the demonic aspect of the religion that it puts up a wall which prevents Muslims being saved unless they renounce the book and prophet that have deceived them. Most Muslims will say therefore that Jesus never died on a cross and therefore never needed to be raised.

But if they are still despite reaching out to God for His mercy in repentance but ignorant of how he might do that can God still save them because of what Jesus did and even despite their verbal denial of that redemptive mechanism.

 

[mindlight]

Many world religions have contrite repentance as a pillar of their faith.

However, in Christianity the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ is central.

What is the substitutionary atonement?

I can agree with everything you wrote and still say God can look at the heart of someone we would dismiss as dammed by default and say actually I know a way to make the sacrifice of my Son work to save that guy.

 

[redleghunter]

I can agree with everything you wrote and still say God can look at the heart of someone we would dismiss as dammed by default and say actually I know a way to make the sacrifice of my Son work to save that guy.

All I will add is if someone refuses the sacrifice of Christ in their place, they reject the Father too.

So if we are conversing with a Muslim man on the street and present the Gospel to him, and he still says I can be forgiven of my sins without Christ Jesus, then what?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Can a non-Christian be saved without confessing the name of Christ?

Basically the OP is inspired by meeting various Muslims who are clearly aware of their sins and repentant of them , who are trusting in Gods mercy for their deliverance.

Consider Paul's words at Athens:

Acts 17:30
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
KJV

 

[Karl.C]

I wonder how many Christians could explain what it means to worship a Triune God or describe the nature of Christ - how he can be both man and God in the same person.

Despite the fact my mother raised me as a JW, to my own satisfaction I can explain both the homoousios & hypostasis and am convinced of their validity. My dad is RCC & had a Marist education. As I matured and asking him confronting questions, he answered me directly using scripture. Most "christians" are not aware that hypostasis, physis & ousia are terms used in scripture & are the terms core to Tinitarian theology.

..the biggest problem with Islam is that it has lies embedded in it regarding the redemption mechanism of death on the cross and resurrection.

I live in an area that is increasingly becoming a Muslim majority (and property prices for a standard 1/4 acre have been continuously rising, now exceeding the $1million mark). Such a circumstance has reduced my prejudices. I've encountered professing Muslims who accept the death & resurrection of Christ and whose sect is persecuted in their home country. As far as I have experienced Islam is as fragmented as Christianity...

Now Jesus says "...salvation is of the Jews" (John 4), and to be realistic it is only by aceptence of A.Paul's letters that we can extend salvation beyond the heirs of Isaac & their proselytes. The question that we need to ask is what about the Ismaelites! What arrangement did YHWH make for Abraham's firstborn? Genesis 21 seems to give us a clue...

My personal opinion is that the sole purpose of Jesus' death & resurrection is the abolition of the idea "God" and the superstition of religion and its organisation. As Jesus said "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. " John 4:23. As the ancient fathers would say "the rest is rhetoric".

Neither [the death of Christ or his resurrection] happened in the Quran.

Simply because they find Jesus' death as appeasement of a wrathful god disingenuous. Much the same way as genuine Christians reject Calvin's fantasy of predestination.

But that said, most Muslims are not prepared to reason on the "ransom" redeemer. To me, it is like those who are said by A.John to have believed in Jesus demanding "We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?" (John 8:31-33) Jesus didn't bother to remind those Jews of the national bondage in Egypt or their current suppression by the Romans but instead taught of the bondage of sin... Now that is a topic a Muslim is happy to talk about...in my experience they are surgically logical & legalistic in their perspectives...

This is the demonic aspect of the religion that it puts up a wall which prevents Muslims being saved unless they renounce the book and prophet that have deceived them.

Have you read the Quran or the Zabur? The later is the Arabic version of our book of Psalms. I am told they use it in their services.

In my area there was/is a Prebyterian missionary, sponsored (financed) by a local Baptist congregation who was distributing the Quran in English. When I asked him why, he responded that most Muslims hadn't read the Quran and it was his groups opinion that when they do they will be receptive to the Christian message... Apparently his ministry in Turkey was too successful and the authorities deported him three times and told him that next time he'd be put in prison & they'd throw away the key...accepting his witness, I guess we shouldn't question his methods...

Most Muslims will say therefore that Jesus never died on a cross and therefore never needed to be raised.

And yet, like the prophet Daniel (12:2) and most Pharisees, most Muslims believe in the resurrection to come...

But if they are still despite reaching out to God for His mercy in repentance but ignorant of how he might do that can God still save them because of what Jesus did and even despite their verbal denial of that redemptive mechanism.

Do you limit God's power?

Remember it took 1000 -1400 years to bring the slavic states into the Christian fold. And one of these converted to Judaism to insulate themselves from the strife within Christendom.

That is why I accepted the RCC as my earthly shepherd & teacher...which is why I have confidence in the obedience of Jesus to his Father and feel secure in the hope of the resurrection to come..

 

[chilehed]

Can a non-Christian be saved without confessing the name of Christ?

Basically the OP is inspired by meeting various Muslims who are clearly aware of their sins and repentant of them , who are trusting in Gods mercy for their deliverance.

God's creation is part of his revelation of himself.

Scripture says that everyone has some idea of God. It's undeniable that many non-Christians are seeking God - they may have false ideas about Him but they're seeking Him nonetheless, and NO ONE can seek God except on God's initiative. The fact that they're seeking God, however imperfectly, shows that He is working in their lives.

Romans 1:18-21 says "The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened."

So here scripture explicitly says that one can know God by natural revelation, right? Someone who does evil can’t legitimately claim that he never knew about God, because God made sure through creation that everyone knows about him. The passage doesn’t say that they’re wicked because they don’t know God, what it says is that they’re wicked because they know God well enough and they reject him anyway!

A Protestant might say that that level of knowledge is not salvific, that you can’t be saved if that’s the limit of your knowledge of God. But there are two problems with that viewpoint. First, that would mean that people are lost because God requires them to know what they cannot know, and they cannot know it because God didn’t allow them to know it. That would violate God’s perfect justice. Second, it would mean that one can only be saved through the attainment of information which is hidden to all but a select few, which is at the core of the gnostic heresies.

If one has to have heard of Jesus in order to be saved, then never having had the opportunity to hear of him is a really good excuse for never having heard of him. But the bible specifically says that even these people have no excuse for rejecting God, because they did know about him and they rejected him anyway. What gets you into hell is rejecting God. If you don’t know about Jesus then you can’t very well be culpable for rejecting him, because you can only reject what you know about. God holds us accountable only for what we know, and not for what we cannot know.

And so the Church teaches that even these people may be saved (not that they will be saved, but only that they maybe saved) through the merits of Christ, by means of which we do not know.

I like the way C. S. Lewis said it in Chapter 15 of The Last Battle. In it, Emeth tells of his meeting with Aslan:

Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honor) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him. But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, "Son, thou art welcome." But I said, "Alas, Lord, I am no son of thine but the servant of Tash." He answered, "Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me." Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said "Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one"" The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, "It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites - I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For he and I are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore, if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted. Dost thou understand, Child?" I said "Lord, thou knowest how much I understand." But I said also (for the truth constrained me), "Yet I have been seeking Tash all my days." "Beloved," said the Glorious One, "unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek."​

Anyone who is saved, is saved through Christ

 

[klutedavid]

Can a non-Christian be saved without confessing the name of Christ?

Basically the OP is inspired by meeting various Muslims who are clearly aware of their sins and repentant of them , who are trusting in Gods mercy for their deliverance.

Hello mindlight.

Mark 16
16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Mark 16
17 These signs will accompany those who have believed in My name

Luke 8
12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Luke 8
13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name.

John 2
11 This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.

John 2
23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name.

John 3
15 So that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish.

John 3
18 He who believes in Him is not judged.

John 3
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life.

John 5
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life.

John 6
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 6
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst".

John 6
40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 6
47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 8
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

John 8
30 As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him.

John 9
36 He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.

John 10
26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

John 11
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies."

John 11
26 And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

John 11
40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

John 12
36 While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.

John 14
29 Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.

John 16
9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

John 20
31 But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 2
44 And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common.

Acts 4
4 But many of those who had heard the message believed.

Acts 4
32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul.

Acts 5
14 And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number.

Acts 8
13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip.

Acts 9
42 It became known all over Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.

Acts 10
43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 10
45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed.

Acts 11
21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a large number who believed turned to the Lord.

Acts 13
12 Then the proconsul believed when he saw what had happened, being amazed at the teaching of the Lord.

Acts 13
39 And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Acts 13
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14
1 In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed.

Acts 14
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Acts 15
7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe".

Acts 15
11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Acts 15
7 That by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Acts 16
31 They said, believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.

Acts 17
12 Therefore many of them believed.

Acts 17
34 But some men joined him and believed.

Acts 18
8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the
Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

Acts 18
27 He greatly helped those who had believed through grace.

Acts 19
4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming
after him".

Acts 19
18 Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices.

Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.

Romans 3
22 Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe.

Romans 4
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Romans 4
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 10
9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Romans 10
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Romans 10
13 Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 10
11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Romans 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your belief.

1 Corinthians 1
21 God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 15
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which
also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you
believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins
according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day.

Philippians 1
29 For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him.

1 Thessalonians 2
13 For what it really is, the word of God, which also performs

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Why are you shouting "Wrong" at me? I said "no" to the one group and didn't give a reply to the other. Mainly, I was asking for a clarification of the OP's question.

Have you been on CF for more than a week?

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

It is one thing to have an intellectual understanding of a religion and another to come to a personal understanding of how God is known and who exactly he is. I wonder how many Muslims have had an encounter with Christ in such a way that a real choice was possible.

Here are 2 examples of muslims meeting jesus and converting.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...ggeMAA&usg=AFQjCNFgZx-UPdS8q-PjfNJOutRR5k7QhA

AMP - Aug 3, 2015 - A former Muslim cleric who converted to Christianity after meeting Jesusin a dream was abandoned by his family and brutally beaten.



Jesus will reveal Himself to Who He chooses to. We hear our Sheppard calling.


"To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

How were Abraham or Moses saved?

The answer, I believe, is yes with an asterisk.

There is no salvation outside or without Christ. But whether or not anyone is saved outside of the Christian Church is, fundamentally, not something which we can say dogmatically; but we side on the position of hope as we do when we confess that the ancient patriarchs and prophets were saved even without knowing or being able to confess Jesus Christ; or when we in hope say that miscarried infants or unbaptized children are saved.

It is always Christ's work that alone is our salvation; Jesus alone is our salvation and "there is no other name by which anyone might be saved"; and the ordinary means of our salvation is the working of faith through the means of the preached Gospel and administered Sacraments by which we are made baptized, believing Christians and in this have the assurance of the Gospel which is found in Christ--but how or when or if God works through extraordinary means is not revealed to us--and thus we can only put ourselves on the side of hope, trusting in God: that He who is faithful, good, just, and merciful does, indeed, desire the salvation of all as we read, "Desiring none to perish" and "that all be saved" and "He is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe". We must therefore commit others to the mercy and judgment of God, hoping and trusting in Him alone.

No one is saved for trusting in the message of Muhammad. But can a Muslim be saved? God alone knows; and it is always and only Christ alone--no Muslim will be saved because he or she is a Muslim, but it may be that--outside of the ordinary means revealed to us--God will save him or her on Christ's account; whether that is true or not is known only to God. It is to us not to say what God can or cannot or will or will not do absolutely, but for us to say what God has revealed to us as the ordinary, revealed means of our salvation, that by the preaching of the Gospel we proclaim Christ and through this Word God works the miracle of faith, justifying the sinner for Christ's sake alone.

-CryptoLutheran

Moses and Abraham be saved like we are...they saved by the grace of God through
faith in Jesus(the coming Messiah).

Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
Shadow of things to come:
Genesis 22:8 "And Abraham said, “My son, God will provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” So the two of them went together.

Micah 5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.”

John 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

Job 19:25-27 "For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,
Whom I shall see for myself,
And my eyes shall behold, and not another.

Jude 1:14 "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them:
"See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones"

 

[Karl.C]

So if we are conversing with a Muslim man on the street and present the Gospel to him, and he still says I can be forgiven of my sins without Christ Jesus, then what?

I'd read to him Isa's (Jesus') teaching at Mt 12:31-32 "...every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (NIV)

In my short time at this forum I've observed a lot of "sunday schooled" opinion and protestant platitudes floating around but not much actual scripture...which suggests that there ain't a lot of Christian pro-activity going on...

According to A.Paul Jesus' sacrifice only has worth for us because God our Father raised him from the dead, and it is only because of his obedience to his Father that he has been made Lord to us (1 Cor 15:14; Rom 10:9-10; Phil 2:8-11 = If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God [his Father] raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved...And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God [his Father] exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.)

Now in my experience a religious Muslim would find that message heart warming as to them all things are to be done for the glory of God (Christian arabic: Allah), As for the Lordship thing: I'd ask such a Muslim about Isa (Jesus) and why is it the Quran says it is he that Allah (God) has determined will judge all in the last days...

I find it useful to know what the Christian scriptures actually teach and have an inkling of why people have difficulty listening to the message before advocating "I'm right, you are wrong"...could be we need further learning...QED & QEF.

 

[Dartman]

Can a non-Christian be saved without confessing the name of Christ?

Basically the OP is inspired by meeting various Muslims who are clearly aware of their sins and repentant of them , who are trusting in Gods mercy for their deliverance.

Do you think those Muslims have never heard of Christianity??
Do you think those Muslims are more sincere than Cornelius, or the eunuch... and therefore these Muslims don't need to convert?

 

[the old scribe]

It all depends on how you understand Gods mercy and grace.
If you believe that one must confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord then those who do not know his name won't be saved.

If you believe that God will judge them depending on the knowledge that they do have then they could be saved.

The OT saionts are a special case as they trusted in God for salvation but had no knowledge of Jesus. There are very few people today who can claim to have no knowledge of Jesus.

I am glad "It all depends on how you understand Gods mercy and grace" and not the divine act of redemption and the work of Christ.

Is it not great that it is my understanding that determines how divine mercy and grace works?

Now God can be just exactly what I want him to be! Now, everybody is saved - regardless.

 

[Tolworth John]

I am glad "It all depends on how you understand Gods mercy and grace" and not the divine act of redemption and the work of Christ.

Is it not great that it is my understanding that determines how divine mercy and grace works?

Now God can be just exactly what I want him to be! Now, everybody is saved - regardless.

The ability of the 'good old mankind' to missunderstand, be confussed or just to take out of contexts, never ceases to amaze me.

So try and read what I did say, not what you wanted me to say.

 

[the old scribe]

The ability of the 'good old mankind' to missunderstand, be confussed or just to take out of contexts, never ceases to amaze me.

So try and read what I did say, not what you wanted me to say.

Write what you mean rather than mean what you think you wrote, but did not.
You are right. I did not think you meant how I responded.
The reply was tongue in check to illustrate your mis-communique.

 

[Tolworth John]

Write what you mean rather than mean what you think you wrote, but did not.
You are right. I did not think you meant how I responded.
The reply was tongue in check to illustrate your mis-communique.

If you reread what I said you'll notice I kept saying, 'if you believe' I talked about what the poster/read believed. Nowhere did I say what the reality is.
If any of us can clainm to know how God will deal with those who truely do not know about him.

 

[FireDragon76]

Many world religions have contrite repentance as a pillar of their faith.

However, in Christianity the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ is central.

In American evangelicalism only.

No Christian denies that Jesus death was vicarious, on behalf of the human race, but that isn't necessarily the same as the Calvinist doctrine of substitutionary atonement.