Animal and Plant Protein

[Akita Suggagaki]

Findings In this cohort study of 70 696 Japanese adults followed up for a mean of 18 years, higher intake of plant protein was associated with lower total mortality. Moreover, substitution of plant protein for animal protein, mainly for red or processed meat protein, was associated with lower risk of total, cancer-related, and cardiovascular disease–related mortality.

Meaning A higher intake of plant-based proteins may contribute to long-term health and longevity.
Animal and Plant Protein Intake and Mortality

 

[morse86]

Correlation does not equal causation. Maybe it was confounding factors, maybe the plant eaters were drinking more water.
Also, they grouped red meat with highly processed meats.

It's just a total garbage $$$cience study.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I can understand your skepticism. Probably love meat products. But I don't understand your "$$$cience" slam.

Conflict of Interest Disclosures: None reported.

Funding/Support: This study was supported by grants 23-A-31[toku], 26-A-2, and 29-A-4 from the National Cancer Center Research and Development Fund (since 2011) and a Grant-in-Aid for Cancer Research from the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare of Japan (from 1989 to 2010).

Role of the Funder/Sponsor: The sponsors had no role in the design and conduct of the study; collection, management, analysis, and interpretation of the data; preparation, review, or approval of the manuscript; and decision to submit the manuscript for publication.

 

[morse86]

Ok who's talking about their conflict of interest?

I'm talking about the study itself, it's total garbage. Correlation does not equal causation. Ambulances are at every accident scene, did they cause the accident?

They also grouped red meat with processed meats.

This is not a scientific study at all, it's garbage....unfortunately tabloid magazine article writers will pick it up with sensational headlines to keep the masses uninformed.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

tabloid magazine

This was Journal of American Medical Association.

 

[morse86]

This was Journal of American Medical Association.

It doesn't matter if it's in the journal of mars. The study is garbage.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Correlation does not equal causation. Maybe it was confounding factors, maybe the plant eaters were drinking more water.
Also, they grouped red meat with highly processed meats.

It's just a total garbage $$$cience study.

The correlation between the high consumption of animal foods (specifically, those with higher levels of saturated fat) and all cardiovascular disease isn't just basic correlation.

If you review many of the studies, they've established a linear relationship...which does imply causation.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It doesn't matter if it's in the journal of mars. The study is garbage.

You're really linking a Sv3rige video? The guy who "sun gazes" and eats rotting meat? lol...

Why not just admit that you're having a visceral reaction to facts that don't gel well with your personal dietary preferences?

Sv3rige and Frank Tufano (both morons) love to trot out these videos with unhealthy looking vegans to prove some sort of point...

Why not critique this guy who's a natural vegan bodybuilder?

Meanwhile, Keto "guru" Jimmy Moore looks like this:

See, anyone can do the kind of cherry picking that Sv3rige and Frank Tufano do...

 

[morse86]

The correlation between the high consumption of animal foods (specifically, those with higher levels of saturated fat) and all cardiovascular disease isn't just basic correlation.

If you review many of the studies, they've established a linear relationship...which does imply causation.

Well, in this study Dietary Fat and Fatty Acids and Risk of Colorectal Cancer in Women there is a linear correlation showing red meat decreases certain types of cancers. You can find correlation after correlation to "prove" anything.

See how pointless these types of studies are? Without explaining the actual biomechanism, it is totally useless.

 

[morse86]

Vegetables are full of antinutrients and toxins. In fact, if you eat vegetables, starches, and fruits, after about a decade, serious deficiencies will start showing up....if you don't supplement. That right there proves veganism is nonsense.

Vegetables aren't bad, but neither is meat and neither cause any health problems if you eat in balance.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Well, in this study Dietary Fat and Fatty Acids and Risk of Colorectal Cancer in Women there is a linear correlation showing red meat decreases certain types of cancers. You can find correlation after correlation to "prove" anything.

See how pointless these types of studies are? Without explaining the actual biomechanism, it is totally useless.

I didn't mention colorectal cancer, I mentioned cardiovascular disease...

 

[morse86]

I didn't mention colorectal cancer, I mentioned cardiovascular disease...

Why don't you stop quoting nonsense correlation studies and prove the bio-mechanism?

Prove that a chylomicron from a piece of steak gets stuck in the arteries. Prove it. I don't want artist drawings, I don't want CGI illustrations, I don't want "nonsense biomarkers". You can't prove it in vitro or in vivo.

In fact, you better stop eating carbs because all carbs go through a process of forming into ILD, LDL, and VLDL....yeah the "bad" cholesterol.


The real cause of heart disease is the glycophosphate tons of spray they use on your vegetables and the tons of bleaching agents they use to clean meats and plastic packaging, fluoride etc.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That right there proves veganism is nonsense.

I don't recall anyone advocating veganism...based on our digestive system (compared to our closest relatives in the animal kingdom, chimps), we should be at a roughly 30/70 split between animal foods and plant foods.

The fact that you're mentioning "anti-nutrients" makes me think you've been duped by carnivore dieters, chiropractors on youtube (who parade around as if they're real doctors), and nonsensical organizations like Price Pottenger who spin a bunch of nonsense about how "Eskimos were in perfect health, that's why everyone should eat a bunch of fatty meat" (even though most of their claims are unfounded and were later proven wrong by actual researchers).

I get it, steak and bacon are delicious lol, but a meat heavy diet isn't optimal for humans (or any other primates)

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Why don't you stop quoting nonsense correlation studies and prove the bio-mechanism?

Again...stop listening to carnivore dieters and "keto evangelists"...the studies showing the link between saturated fat intake and heart disease aren't "nonsense correlation studies", they're linear causal relationships. Meaning, the more saturated fat is consumed, the higher the risk goes.


The fact that you linked a sv3rige video before tells me all I need to know about the kind of sources you're getting your info from lol.

Let me guess, you also believe that "grass fed meat" is somehow special and negates all previous studies about the negatives of red meat because "they only reviewed grain-fed meat in those other studies"...and "grass fed beef is a health food because of the omega fat ratios"...I'm familiar with all of the carnivore dieter logic, I know who their spokespeople are lol

You're either getting your info from carnivore/paleo dieters, chiropractors who pretend to be doctors (like Axe & Berg), or Bro-science advocates like Thomas Delauer

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

A study from 2016 also
Association of Protein Intake With Mortality


https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/1i...nd-cancer/red-meat-processed-meat-and-cancer/

Q&A on the carcinogenicity of the consumption of red meat and processed meat

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't recall anyone advocating veganism...based on our digestive system (compared to our closest relatives in the animal kingdom, chimps), we should be at a roughly 30/70 split between animal foods and plant foods.

The fact that you're mentioning "anti-nutrients" makes me think you've been duped by carnivore dieters, chiropractors on youtube (who parade around as if they're real doctors), and nonsensical organizations like Price Pottenger who spin a bunch of nonsense about how "Eskimos were in perfect health, that's why everyone should eat a bunch of fatty meat" (even though most of their claims are unfounded and were later proven wrong by actual researchers).

I get it, steak and bacon are delicious lol, but a meat heavy diet isn't optimal for humans (or any other primates)

It's a dumb way to do keto. I tried that sort of diet a few years ago and ended up getting gout and sand in my urine. I had to start drinking detox tea or my joints would hurt. After about half a year of that, I just called it quits.

Steak isn't even a good source of fats for a keto diet- most of it is too lean. Real pork or free-range chickens are better. A local Hispanic grocery has much better chickens and that's where I buy mine, not the Frankenchickens you find at mainstream supermarkets (that have small legs and thighs). And of course, nuts are another good source of fat, and they don't have the effects on the body that animal protein does.

I started eating more arugula salads with tuna and olive oil dressing and that was alot better for me than eating hamburger, lots of eggs, and bacon.

 

[Julian of Norwich]

It happens that a semi-vegetarian diet (that which admits of fish and poultry) is less expensive! That's a win in my book.

 

[johndoo]

It happens that a semi-vegetarian diet (that which admits of fish and poultry) is less expensive! That's a win in my book.

I've thought about this lately. If you have access to an Aldi's store, many healthy foods are cheaper. In our local grocery store , the price of fresh spinach can vary from $1 to $3dollars per bag.

 

[Julian of Norwich]

I've thought about this lately. If you have access to an Aldi's store, many healthy foods are cheaper. In our local grocery store , the price of fresh spinach can vary from $1 to $3dollars per bag.

Thank you. I would but there's no Aldi's anywhere around here and the only health food store around is very expensive.

 

[Stellar Vision]

Dr. Greger had a fascinating comparison between Plant vs Animal protein on kidney function:

4:54 "What is going on? Why does animal protein cause that overload reaction, but not plant protein? It appears to be an inflamatory response triggered by the animal protein. We know this because administration of a powerful anti-inflamatory drug abolishes the hyperfiltration / protein leakage response to meat ingestion.

There was also another one that explained how the structure of animal protein, compared to plants, acted as a driver for cancer growth.