AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

[SabbathBlessings]

I have a question, why is it the non denominational churches and Pentecostal churches are growing and the SDA and Baptist are declining? Please don't say it is separating the wheat, those brothers and sisters love the Lord every bit as much as any of my SDA friends.

My SDA church keeps having to move because they are constantly outgrowing it. This past Sabbath was the first day in the new church and it was PACKED!

 

[clefty]

What did Jesus say about the Sabbath?
Mark 2:27-28 (NIV) Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

and what did you say? “The day of rest was made for man” NOT the same thing is it? And you only said that to support your “IF you can only have Tuesdays off then make that your day of rest” so you can make days Holy to replace His day He made Holy and never made unholy?

What situation is it where you only get Tuesdays off? Maybe you need to make some changes?

28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

so you expect the Lord of London to destroy his city? Or the Lord of the Rings his rings?

Jesus picked grain on the sabbath, performed miracles on the sabbath, those were all considered works by the Jews and it violated the Jewish customs.

Jews their customs > Him His way? Maybe better you follow Yah and not man’s traditions or Jews their false witness that He “ changed the customs delivered to Moses” Acts 6:13-14...Titus 1:14

Yahushua stole the Sabbath back from what Jews had made of it...

So, yes I do "dig",

ok good good...oh wait you mean to say He DID break the Jew’s Law right?...despite it was given Israel and not just 1/12 of it...and already at Sinai this ekklesia was full of those NOT of Jacob

and IF He did break His Law He gave at Sinai that would be a sin...

so now you have Him as a LIAR as Sabbath can be Tuesday...and is only for Jews and He is a SINNER for also breaking the Sabbath...

I had eight years of SDA shoved down my throat.

no worries...what goes into the body does not defile you...LOL

I could go on, we now know the Keto diet is one of the healthiest especially for weight control, lot's of meat, no or very few carbs, and you will be a lot healthier.

I imagine pork and dog meat too for you? CAT BAT AND WOMBAT? imagine if China was cleaner in their diet...the illnesses we could have avoided...SARS H1N1 COVID...oh well...whatever whenever or Tuesdays...

The SDA looks for holiness on the exterior with a bunch of man made rules that came out of the holiness movement.

seventh day Sabbath is man made now? Clean meats kept clean is NOT FROM OUR CREATOR? Daniel diet NOT what it will be when we are restored to our Manufacturer’s default setting?

or you expecting bacon one month a year in the tree of life...

We have freedom in Christ.

Freedom to what? NOT to be Holy? NOT follow Him His Way? NOT Love AS HE FIRST LOVED US? Just as?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I have a question, why is it the non denominational churches and Pentecostal churches are growing and the SDA and Baptist are declining? Please don't say it is separating the wheat, those brothers and sisters love the Lord every bit as much as any of my SDA friends.

Who are the saved according to the scriptures? Are they the many or the few? Are God's saints the majority or the remnant according to the scriptures? According to you, it is the few that are called and the many that are chosen and the dragon was wroth with the women and went to make war with the majority of her seed which do not keep the commandments of God or the faith of JESUS. Do you know the scriptures I am referring to here Perry? If you do how do you think they relate to your question?

 

[RBPerry]

and what did you say? as?

Do you have any valid points, or just distortions of my point of view?

 

[RBPerry]

My SDA church keeps having to move because they are constantly outgrowing it. This past Sabbath was the first day in the new church and it was PACKED!

That's wonderful, My issues isn't with the brothers and sisters in any congregation be it SDA, JW, or Mormons, or any other denomination. It's the stupid rules I have issues with that have little or nothing to do with Christianity.
Just another little example, one of your preachers got on TV and said that the wine wasn't fermented, it was grape juice, that is just about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Even our professors at Loma Linda wouldn't come up with that kind of non sense. Why did Jesus give the example of not putting new wine in old wine skin? When someone gets on public TV and makes a statement like that it makes Christians look like idiots. You see many people that are searching will turn on a Christian TV station and you get everything from the frozen chosen to the name it and claim it folks and that kind of thing leaves the non believer wondering what Christian do believe.
If the SDA can lead someone to Christ that is wonderful, but you should look at the facts, her in America the fundamentalist churches are dying at a rapid rate. Look at the North East, many old churches have closed and then been turned into bars. Here in California it is the same thing.
But look at Joel Olsten, he packs a football stadium, must be doing something right. In my area we have three churches with membership over three and four thousand people, they are all non denominational, must be doing something right. Show me one Adventist church with those kinds of numbers.

 

[RBPerry]

Who are the saved according to the scriptures? Are they the many or the few? Are God's saints the majority or the remnant according to the scriptures? According to you, it is the few that are called and the many that are chosen and the dragon was wroth with the women and went to make war with the majority of her seed which do not keep the commandments of God or the faith of JESUS. Do you know the scriptures I am referring to here Perry? If you do how do you think they relate to your question?

I know, you are chosen, and the rest of us are going to hell in a hand basket. When you look at the world population, verses those who identify themselves as believers it is pretty easy to see that the majority aren't believers. Yes I have read the entire bible, a few times including the Catholic bible and the books that us protestants decided to eliminate, guess the original cannon wasn't correct, we had to rewrite it.
Are you able to think outside the box? If so read the scrolls that have now been translated to English. Also try reading some of the near death experiences, might enlighten you a little to the real world.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I know, you are chosen, and the rest of us are going to hell in a hand basket. When you look at the world population, verses those who identify themselves as believers it is pretty easy to see that the majority aren't believers. Yes I have read the entire bible, a few times including the Catholic bible and the books that us protestants decided to eliminate, guess the original cannon wasn't correct, we had to rewrite it.
Are you able to think outside the box? If so read the scrolls that have now been translated to English. Also try reading some of the near death experiences, might enlighten you a little to the real world.

Perry what question did you answer of those I asked you?

 

[clefty]

Do you have any valid points, or just distortions of my point of view?

lol...

the world hates Him first...then the ones that don’t

the way is narrow for a reason...

 

[HIM]

Hmm nope try adding all the context. Here you go...

HEBREWS 4:8 WHAT IS THE ANOTHER DAY?

The key scriptures to help understand Hebrews 4:8 are the context of Hebrews 4:1-11. So why not look at them as you cannot expect to understand single scriptures devoid of context and build a doctrine around it. But it is true many seem to do just this though but lets not head in that direction. Let's look at all the scripture context.

HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE (GENSIS 2:1-3) OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week and those who did not enter into God’s rest (Sabbath) did not do so because they did not believe and follow God’s Word (the gospel). The CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD (the Gospel that was preached unto them as well as unto us, with those of us entering into God’s Sabbath rest!

Hi LoveGodsWord,

Great points. Let's continue shall we.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest ( the Gospel, God's rest in Jesus) , as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel, God's rest in Jesus): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The text above is quite revealing. One there is a we which have enter and our experiencing the " my rest" which is the Gospel, the rest in Christ Jesus.

And two the word "although" shows us that the works which are mentioned means that this rest, which is the Gospel, the rest in Christ Jesus was available to us from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

The above text starts with the word "for" Which means what follows is the reason or an intensification to what was previously stated.

In this case it intensifies. The clause "and God did rest the seventh day from all His works" shows us he had nothing else to to in relation for the rest in which has for us in Christ. Because the works for it were finished from the the foundation of the world.

Let sally forth...

Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Two important issues here. One is the clause "and in this again".
In what again?
HE SPEAKS is what. He speaks od the Seventh Day.

Why bring that up? To broadened the context. Now the writer through the Holy Spirit starts to make a connection between those who are experiencing the "My Rest" God's rest in Christ, the Gospel and the Seventh Day. And also a distinction between the the two by the word "if" in the second clause. Here in the above text he says He speaks again of the Seventh Day, if they shall enter into His rst, which is the Gospel, the rest in Christ Jesus.

Let’s continue…
Yes let's but first we shall let this digest while we are at work. Many blessings to you and yours in Christ Jesus.

 

[Bob S]

Indeed and in contrast to those who keep God's commandments, what law are murderers condemned by? Hint *Exodus 20:13 - Yep 10 commandments. You know what James says, you break anyone of them including the Sabbath we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them *James 2:10-11.

Are you telling us that all the people, including yourself, who worship on Saturday keep from doing their pleasure on the day that was given only to Israel; honoring God by not doing your own ways, or finding your own pleasure, or speaking your own words? Israel failed miserably and Israelites lived in a totalitarianism society without the influences of those not of their faith. No wonder Ellen White wrote that not one in twenty members are ready for translation. In my opinion she should have written not one in a hundred million.

LGW wrote:

This only supports the scriptures shared with you in post 19 of page one proving that G1378 in the Greek is not in reference to God's 10 commandments. If you read my last post (post 19) on this it also shows through both the context and the Greek that the laws in "ordinances" is from the Greek Word δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL LAWS.

Might I remind you that the fourth commandment is a ceremonial law sandwiched between nine laws that deal with morality? And may I also remind all of you that say those of us that believe we are not under the Sinai covenant which contained the ten commandments are under the Royal law of Love which contains every law dealing with morality not just nine. That means hundreds of laws not just the nine which didn't even contain the laws of love that is found in the book of the Law.

You might be able to convince those who have not studied God's Word that you are the remnant that "keep" God's commandments and will be able to stand before God so perfect that you won't need Jesus blood to cover your sins because you have conquered sin. Personally, I have studied scripture and know that I will always be a sinner and only because of Jesus my Savior will I be able to stand before God and know that I will not be judged.* Even if God would have wanted Christians to keep the Sabbath I know for a fact that as hard as I might try I would fail. Fail every week of my life. By the power of the Holy Spirit I keep from killing, stealing, lying, coveting and not honoring my parents. And when I do fail I have the Advocate that that wipes my slate clean. I do not repeat those failures every week of my life.

*Jn 5:24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's wonderful, My issues isn't with the brothers and sisters in any congregation be it SDA, JW, or Mormons, or any other denomination. It's the stupid rules I have issues with that have little or nothing to do with Christianity.
Just another little example, one of your preachers got on TV and said that the wine wasn't fermented, it was grape juice, that is just about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Even our professors at Loma Linda wouldn't come up with that kind of non sense. Why did Jesus give the example of not putting new wine in old wine skin? When someone gets on public TV and makes a statement like that it makes Christians look like idiots. You see many people that are searching will turn on a Christian TV station and you get everything from the frozen chosen to the name it and claim it folks and that kind of thing leaves the non believer wondering what Christian do believe.
If the SDA can lead someone to Christ that is wonderful, but you should look at the facts, her in America the fundamentalist churches are dying at a rapid rate. Look at the North East, many old churches have closed and then been turned into bars. Here in California it is the same thing.
But look at Joel Olsten, he packs a football stadium, must be doing something right. In my area we have three churches with membership over three and four thousand people, they are all non denominational, must be doing something right. Show me one Adventist church with those kinds of numbers.

I think where a lot of people go wrong is they look at the members or pastors as someone who should be perfect, but what we should be looking at is Christ as our example. He was the only perfect, sinless person on earth. If you don't agree with your pastor, try another church or maybe talk to your pastor and ask him about your concerns. It seems weird a previous SDA member would lump Mormons and JW with SDA and these churches are nothing like SDA. Knowing SDA and Bible doctrines you would be easily know the differences.

At any rate, the Bible says this about wine , “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.” Proverbs 20:1. So Jesus is not going to serve wine since it is something He condemns. It was grape juice Jesus was referring to, so your SDA pastor was correct.

I know you say you don't like rules, but the world is full of rules. We have rules for speed, rules on driving, building department rules, health department rules, ADA rules, rules on this forum. With out rules, the world becomes chaotic. Look around, rules are being broken daily and look how things are going. Do you expect our Creator not to have rules on how to love and worship Him? How to treat each other? He knows what's best for us, after all He created us. God is a God of love, but He wants us to obey and we show our love to God by keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Regarding other churches out there, I would stick with the a church that loves God and how does the Bible teach us to love God? If your church is not following the commandments of God or teaching the importance of it, than you have a choice- do you follow man or do you follow Christ?

 

[clefty]

Are you telling us that all the people, including yourself, who worship on Saturday keep from doing their pleasure on the day that was given only to Israel; honoring God by not doing your own ways, or finding your own pleasure, or speaking your own words? Israel failed miserably and Israelites lived in a totalitarianism society without the influences of those not of their faith. No wonder Ellen White wrote that not one in twenty members are ready for translation. In my opinion she should have written not one in a hundred million.

LGW wrote:
Might I remind you that the fourth commandment is a ceremonial law sandwiched between nine laws that deal with morality? And may I also remind all of you that say those of us that believe we are not under the Sinai covenant which contained the ten commandments are under the Royal law of Love which contains every law dealing with morality not just nine. That means hundreds of laws not just the nine which didn't even contain the laws of love that is found in the book of the Law.

You might be able to convince those who have not studied God's Word that you are the remnant that "keep" God's commandments and will be able to stand before God so perfect that you won't need Jesus blood to cover your sins because you have conquered sin. Personally, I have studied scripture and know that I will always be a sinner and only because of Jesus my Savior will I be able to stand before God and know that I will not be judged.* Even if God would have wanted Christians to keep the Sabbath I know for a fact that as hard as I might try I would fail. Fail every week of my life. By the power of the Holy Spirit I keep from killing, stealing, lying, coveting and not honoring my parents. And when I do fail I have the Advocate that that wipes my slate clean. I do not repeat those failures every week of my life.

*Jn 5:24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Isaiah wrote of the pleasure of MAKING PROFIT...can you NOT do that for one day...His day?

“Sabbath ONLY to Israel”? So you are NOT Israel? Not grafted in? Not adopted? And have Him married to TWO WIVES?

Sabbath NOT a moral law? Go get yourself to be forced to work 7 days continuously and then realize the MORALITY of a day of rest...

The sabbatismos which remains for His people is BECAUSE we are His people NOT to become His people by perfect keeping...

we don’t make it Holy we can’t keep it Holy...it IS HOLY...and thus Sabbath KEEPS US...closer to Him His ways...

 

[clefty]

I think where a lot of people go wrong is they look at the members or pastors as someone who should be perfect, but what we should be looking at is Christ as our example. He was the only perfect, sinless person on earth. If you don't agree with your pastor, try another church or maybe talk to your pastor and ask him about your concerns. It seems weird a previous SDA member would lump Mormons and JW with SDA and these churches are nothing like SDA. Knowing SDA and Bible doctrines you would be easily know the differences.

At any rate, the Bible says this about wine , “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.” Proverbs 20:1. So Jesus is not going to serve wine since it is something He condemns. It was grape juice Jesus was referring to, so your SDA pastor was correct.

I know you say you don't like rules, but the world is full of rules. We have rules for speed, rules on driving, building department rules, health department rules, ADA rules, rules on this forum. With out rules, the world becomes chaotic. Look around, rules are being broken daily and look how things are going. Do you expect our Creator not to have rules on how to love and worship Him? How to treat each other? He knows what's best for us, after all He created us. God is a God of love, but He wants us to obey and we show our love to God by keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Regarding other churches out there, I would stick with the a church that loves God and how does the Bible teach us to love God? If your church is not following the commandments of God or teaching the importance of it, than you have a choice- do you follow man or do you follow Christ?

Because “No one drinking the old wine wants new...the OLD is BETTER” indeed...beware the leavening of the Pharisees...

New wine was Pharisee’s teaching...old wine is Torah...

Alcohol remains a problem not just for SDAs...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Because “No one drinking the old wine wants new...the OLD is BETTER” indeed...beware the leavening of the Pharisees...

New wine was Pharisee’s teaching...old wine is Torah...

Alcohol remains a problem not just for SDAs...

So true! It's a real issue.

 

[RBPerry]

I think where a lot of people go wrong is they look at the members or pastors as someone who should be perfect, but what we should be looking at is Christ as our example. He was the only perfect, sinless person on earth. If you don't agree with your pastor, try another church or maybe talk to your pastor and ask him about your concerns. It seems weird a previous SDA member would lump Mormons and JW with SDA and these churches are nothing like SDA. Knowing SDA and Bible doctrines you would be easily know the differences.

At any rate, the Bible says this about wine , “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.” Proverbs 20:1. So Jesus is not going to serve wine since it is something He condemns. It was grape juice Jesus was referring to, so your SDA pastor was correct.

I know you say you don't like rules, but the world is full of rules. We have rules for speed, rules on driving, building department rules, health department rules, ADA rules, rules on this forum. With out rules, the world becomes chaotic. Look around, rules are being broken daily and look how things are going. Do you expect our Creator not to have rules on how to love and worship Him? How to treat each other? He knows what's best for us, after all He created us. God is a God of love, but He wants us to obey and we show our love to God by keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Regarding other churches out there, I would stick with the a church that loves God and how does the Bible teach us to love God? If your church is not following the commandments of God or teaching the importance of it, than you have a choice- do you follow man or do you follow Christ?

No Pastor, Elder, or deacon is perfect, we are all imperfect people. But if you are going to preach something make sure what you are preaching is accurate. If you do an honest study of wine in the bible you will see it was wine, not grape juice. At Pentecost they accused the disciples of being drunk. Peter said, "It's nine AM, it is too early to be drunk." Sure alcohol in excess isn't a good idea but there is no sin in drinking it. The Jews sure disagree with your beliefs regarding wine.

My point by mentioning the JW, and Mormons is they come up with their own rules that again have nothing to do with Christianity as do the Adventist. Yes we all must live by certain rules and laws, and God gave us the law, we have ten commandments. Jesus challenged the Jewish laws and customs, he worked on the Sabbath. The Jews went crazy with their made up rules that had nothing to do with living a righteous life.

Do you remember what Paul said about rules, "All things are permissible, but not all things are profitable". Do you know when all these rules began? They began with the holiness movement in the 1600 century. Try studding church history and where the Adventist movement came from.

Believing in Jesus Christ to me means attempting to model ones life after what he taught, example the sermon on the mount in Mathew 5. When Jesus was asked what commandments are the greatest; he said, "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself, that all the law hung on those two commandments."

Now you want to talk about Ellen White, there is another can of worms for the Adventist camp. I have many Adventist friends, a couple that I met at Loma Linda in the 60s. You want to base your sabbath beliefs on her visions that's fine, funny part is she never claimed to be a prophet.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No Pastor, Elder, or deacon is perfect, we are all imperfect people. But if you are going to preach something make sure what you are preaching is accurate. If you do an honest study of wine in the bible you will see it was wine, not grape juice. At Pentecost they accused the disciples of being drunk. Peter said, "It's nine AM, it is too early to be drunk." Sure alcohol in excess isn't a good idea but there is no sin in drinking it. The Jews sure disagree with your beliefs regarding wine.

My point by mentioning the JW, and Mormons is they come up with their own rules that again have nothing to do with Christianity as do the Adventist. Yes we all must live by certain rules and laws, and God gave us the law, we have ten commandments. Jesus challenged the Jewish laws and customs, he worked on the Sabbath. The Jews went crazy with their made up rules that had nothing to do with living a righteous life.

Do you remember what Paul said about rules, "All things are permissible, but not all things are profitable". Do you know when all these rules began? They began with the holiness movement in the 1600 century. Try studding church history and where the Adventist movement came from.

Believing in Jesus Christ to me means attempting to model ones life after what he taught, example the sermon on the mount in Mathew 5. When Jesus was asked what commandments are the greatest; he said, "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself, that all the law hung on those two commandments."

Now you want to talk about Ellen White, there is another can of worms for the Adventist camp. I have many Adventist friends, a couple that I met at Loma Linda in the 60s. You want to base your sabbath beliefs on her visions that's fine, funny part is she never claimed to be a prophet.

I have to run to work and will address the the wine in the Bible when I have more time.

If you want to model yourself as Jesus did than that was keeping the Sabbath. Jesus came to do the will of His father John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. Jesus kept the commandments of God including the 4th commandment of seventh day Sabbath keeping. I am not sure if you really understand what the Bible is saying but Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath, but He never sinned and the Bibles tells us that. Hebrews 4: 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin

Jesus said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill. Does this make since "I did not come to destroy the law but I came to destroy the law." No! Please read:

Mathew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was summarizing His Fathers commandments.

Also, SDA follows the Bible scripture above all. Ellen White was a messenger and brought many to Christ but she is not Christ, she was a meek women who loved God with all her heart. I follow the Bible and its teaching above all else. God Bless

 

[clefty]

Might I remind you that the fourth commandment is a ceremonial law sandwiched between nine laws that deal with morality? And may I also remind all of you that say those of us that believe we are not under the Sinai covenant which contained the ten commandments are under the Royal law of Love which contains every law dealing with morality not just nine.

What ceremony? Lay there resting?

Sandwiched between? You mean like the MEAT?...like the other Laws FRAME the Sabbath and it gives the others context?

The first 3 is WHY you get a Sabbath...is WHY you give it to others...with the other 6

You honestly think there is NOTHING immoral about working your workers 7 days a week? For your profit?

The Sabbath is exactly the CENTER as to WHERE He is and we will be again...given to us BEFORE SIN...describing life in His kingdom...six days work/creation seventh day rest...JUST LIKE He did...and made us in His Image...

ALL THE OTHER LAWS ARE TO ADMINISTER THESE LIVING ORACLES...

they dealt with the applying of those INTO our lives...

the temple...the sacrifices...the cleansings ALL PLAN B

now we have a NEW High Priest and are the new temple...cleansed...

He is the Way the Truth the Light the Life which it points to and to get us back to Him His kingdom its Sabbath as it was in the GARDEN where and when:

there is NO other god but our Creator
no images needed to worship
HIS NAME not in vain
IS WHY WE REST on His Holy day
dost honor elder
dost NOT kill
dost NOT adulterate
dost NOT steal
dost NOT lie
dost NOT covet

to which His people will be reborn returned and restored...to HIM and His faith...of Yahushua...like it was when man was made in His Image...in the garden...

keep what you call the ROYAL LAW and of course you will LOVE AS HE DID which includes the seventh day rest...ITS MORALITY OF REST AND TEMPERANCE

HIS LOVE He gives us in this living oracle includes us the strangers WITHIN His kingdom's gates...THE ONLY COMMANDMENT TO SPECIFICALLY INCLUDE THOSE NOT OF JACOB...including you BOBviously

is why when you finally do love others JUST AS He first loved us...you will fulfill His Law...loving and living AS HE DID...duh

Where's the BEEF Bob?

Your sandwich with no meat or that fake meat looks unappetizing and malnourishing...lol

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Are you telling us that all the people, including yourself, who worship on Saturday keep from doing their pleasure on the day that was given only to Israel; honoring God by not doing your own ways, or finding your own pleasure, or speaking your own words? Israel failed miserably and Israelites lived in a totalitarianism society without the influences of those not of their faith. No wonder Ellen White wrote that not one in twenty members are ready for translation. In my opinion she should have written not one in a hundred million.

Bob your starting with a false premise and there is no truth in your words but let me explain why through the scriptures. So let's start by fixing this one up first. JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27. The Sabbath according to the scriptures was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3.

There was no Israel when God created the Sabbath only Adam and Eve. Secondly, in the new covenant God's ISRAEL is all those who believe and follow God's Word not those born in the flesh but those born in the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8; Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29. There is no more JEW of Gentile believers. All are one in Christ according to the scriptures *Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. Gentile believers are now grafted in with Jewish believers *Romans 11:13-27.

If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise written in Hebrews 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-34). The name ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow God's Word (more scripture here linked).

Now to your question? There are always wheat and the tares growing side by side until the harvest according to the scriptures *Matthew 13:24-30. Some will believe and follow God's Word some will not but are there in name only *2 Timothy 3:1-5. Also, all of us are growing in God's grace living up to the light of the knowledge of God's Word that he has revealed to us and in times of ignorance God winks at according to the scriptures *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17.

God does not hold any of us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of His truth. At this time he expects us to believe and follow his Word. At this time if we reject God's Word after he gives us a knowledge of His truth and continue in sin God holds us accountable to sin as it is written in Hebrews 10:26-31 and if we continue in known unrepentant sin after God gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word and we reject God's Word we will lose our salvation and eternal life. For me I seek to do God's will on His Sabbath according to the commandment and He is teaching me how to love him and follow his Word.

LoveGodsWord wrote: This only supports the scriptures shared with you in post 19 of page one proving that G1378 in the Greek is not in reference to God's 10 commandments. If you read my last post (post 19) on this it also shows through both the context and the Greek that the laws in "ordinances" is from the Greek Word δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL LAWS.

Your response here...

Might I remind you that the fourth commandment is a ceremonial law sandwiched between nine laws that deal with morality? And may I also remind all of you that say those of us that believe we are not under the Sinai covenant which contained the ten commandments are under the Royal law of Love which contains every law dealing with morality not just nine. That means hundreds of laws not just the nine which didn't even contain the laws of love that is found in the book of the Law.

Actually no. The Sabbath is not a ceremonial law according to the scriptures. All of God's 10 commandments are "MORAL" laws of our duty of Love to God and our fellow man. God's 4th commandment Sabbath law however is unique in that it is the only commandment from God that is a "MEMORIAL" law. It starts of with "REMEMBER" it points back to creation and God as the creator of Heaven and earth showing His right as owning our allegiance to be His people who he commands to follow his laws. Both the scriptures and language definitions disagree with you but let's show why from the scriptures alone...

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.< tsedeq Right Doing - MORAL>

Ok right from the get go we have a biblical definition of Righteousness. God's Word (not mine) says that All OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS. Let's dig a little deeper and see what this means. Now the scripture here does not say some of your commandments are righteousness but how much of God's commandments are righteousness? ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is important for us to see this before we continue. Ok these are God's definitions not mine.

Let's continue....

HEBREW for "Righteousness" is צדק; tsedeq means; the right natural, moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness)].

So God's Word (not mine) defines all of God's commandments as moral and RIGHTEOUSNESS is defined as the standard of MORAL RIGHT in the Hebrew which God’s Word defines as ALL GOD’S COMMANDMENTS. This of course includes God’s 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments written with the finger of God.

The opposite of righteousness is unrighteousness as shown in this scripture here…

1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death.
[18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS HEBREW (H5766) עול עול עולה עולה עלה ;‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh From H5765; moral evil: - iniquity, perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).

UNRIGHTEOSNESS GREEK (G93) ἀδικία; adikia (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of character, life or act): - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (ἀδικία Moral wrongfulness) IS SIN which is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is the opposite of RIGHTEOUSNESS and ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is SIN *1 JOHN 5:17 and SIN is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 then RIGHTEOUSNESS is OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) as is why it is written;

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE *RIGHTOUESNESS.<Moral Right Doing>

ROMANS 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good,G5544 no, not one.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5544
χρηστότης; chrēstotēs From G5543; usefulness, that is, moral excellence (in character or demeanor): - gentleness, good (-ness), kindness.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:33 Be not deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals. G2239

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G2239
ἦθος; ēthos A strengthened form of G1485; usage, that is, (plural) moral habits: - manners

……………..

Christian bible dictionary definitions agree with the Hebrew and Greek scriptures shown above...

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828

MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]

1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness. Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue. Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.

2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.

3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.

Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.

Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.

4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.

5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.

................

CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]

1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.

2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.

[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

CEREMONIAL, n.

1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.

2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

................

So according to the God's Word (not mine) all of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment are Moral laws not a ceremonial law like some claim. Sorry Bob, it seems God's Word disagrees with you here.

You might be able to convince those who have not studied God's Word that you are the remnant that "keep" God's commandments and will be able to stand before God so perfect that you won't need Jesus blood to cover your sins because you have conquered sin. Personally, I have studied scripture and know that I will always be a sinner and only because of Jesus my Savior will I be able to stand before God and know that I will not be judged.* Even if God would have wanted Christians to keep the Sabbath I know for a fact that as hard as I might try I would fail. Fail every week of my life. By the power of the Holy Spirit I keep from killing, stealing, lying, coveting and not honoring my parents. And when I do fail I have the Advocate that that wipes my slate clean. I do not repeat those failures every week of my life.*Jn 5:24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Not really Bob, the only way anyone of us can come to a knowledge of God's truth is if we seek JESUS through his Word asking prayerfully that he may be our guide and teacher and it is only to the Word of God that I point anyone that has ears to hear and eyes to see. He must increase but I must decrease. It is only in him that is the light of life that all must be led to know. This is my prayer for not just you but for everyone else here.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi LoveGodsWord,

Great points. Let's continue shall we.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest ( the Gospel, God's rest in Jesus) , as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel, God's rest in Jesus): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The text above is quite revealing. One there is a we which have enter and our experiencing the " my rest" which is the Gospel, the rest in Christ Jesus.

And two the word "although" shows us that the works which are mentioned means that this rest, which is the Gospel, the rest in Christ Jesus was available to us from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

The above text starts with the word "for" Which means what follows is the reason or an intensification to what was previously stated.

In this case it intensifies. The clause "and God did rst the seventh day from all His works" shows us he had nothing else to to in relation for the rest in which has for us in Christ. Because works for it were finished from the the foundation of the world.

Let sally forth...

Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Two important issues here. One is the clause "and in this again".
In what again?
HE SPEAKS is what.
Why bring that up? To broadened the context. Now the writer through the Holy Spirit starts to make a connection between those who are experiencing the "My Rest" God's rest in Christ, the Gospel and the Seventh Day. And also a distinction between the the two by the word if in the second clause. Here in the above text he says He speaks again of the Seventh Day, if they shall enter into His rst, which is the Gospel, the rest in Christ Jesus.

Let’s continue…
Yes let's but first we shall let this digest while we are at work. Many blessings to you and yours in Christ Jesus.

Hi HIM thanks for sharing. The "MY REST" according to the scriptures is "God's rest" defined in the scriptures as the "seventh day" (Sabbath). The rest here being spoken of however directly links to the Gospel as those who do not believe the gospel do not enter in to God's rest (the seventh day Sabbath) and those who do believe enter in. We enter into God's seventh day Sabbath rest (Sabbath) by believing the gospel.

God bless

 

[clefty]

Bob your starting with a false premise and there is no truth in your words but let me explain why through the scriptures. So let's start by fixing this one up first. JESUS says that the Sabbath was made for mankind in Mark 2:27. The Sabbath according to the scriptures was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3. There was no Israel when God created the Sabbath only Adam and Eve. Secondly, in the new covenant God's ISRAEL is all those who believe and follow God's Word not those born in the flesh but those born in the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8; Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29. There is no more JEW of Gentile believers. All are one in Christ according to the scriptures *Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. Gentile believers are now grafted in with Jewish believers *Romans 11:13-27. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise written in Hebrews 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-34). The name ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow God's Word (more scripture here linked). Now to your question? There are always wheat and the tares growing side by side until the harvest according to the scriptures *Matthew 13:24-30. Some will believe and follow God's Word some will not but are there in name only *2 Timothy 3:1-5. Also, all of us are growing in God's grace living up to the light of the knowledge of God's Word that he has revealed to us and in times of ignorance God winks at according to the scriptures *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. God does not hold any of us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of His truth. At this time he expects us to believe and follow his Word. At this time if we reject God's Word after he gives us a knowledge of His truth and continue in sin God holds us accountable to sin as it is written in Hebrews 10:26-31 and if we continue in known unrepentant sin after God gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word and we reject God's Word we will lose our salvation and eternal life. For me I seek to do God's will on His Sabbath according to the commandment and He is teaching me how to love him and follow his Word.

Your response here...

Actually no. The Sabbath is not a ceremonial law according to the scriptures. All of God's 10 commandments are "MORAL" laws of our duty of Love to God and our fellow man. God's 4th commandment Sabbath law however is unique in that it is the only commandment from God that is a "MEMORIAL" law. It starts of with "REMEMBER" it points back to creation and God as the creator of Heaven and earth showing His right as owning our allegiance to be His people who he commands to follow his laws. Both the scriptures and language definitions disagree with you but let's show why from the scriptures alone...

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.< tsedeq Right Doing - MORAL>

Ok right from the get go we have a biblical definition of Righteousness. God's Word (not mine) says that All OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS. Let's dig a little deeper and see what this means. Now the scripture here does not say some of your commandments are righteousness but how much of God's commandments are righteousness? ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is important for us to see this before we continue. Ok these are God's definitions not mine.

Let's continue....

HEBREW for "Righteousness" is צדק; tsedeq means; the right natural, moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness)].

So God's Word (not mine) defines all of God's commandments as moral and RIGHTEOUSNESS is defined as the standard of MORAL RIGHT in the Hebrew which God’s Word defines as ALL GOD’S COMMANDMENTS. This of course includes God’s 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments written with the finger of God.

The opposite of righteousness is unrighteousness as shown in this scripture here…

1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death.
[18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS HEBREW (H5766) עול עול עולה עולה עלה ;‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh From H5765; moral evil: - iniquity, perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).

UNRIGHTEOSNESS GREEK (G93) ἀδικία; adikia (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of character, life or act): - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (ἀδικία Moral wrongfulness) IS SIN which is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is the opposite of RIGHTEOUSNESS and ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is SIN *1 JOHN 5:17 and SIN is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 then RIGHTEOUSNESS is OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) as is why it is written;

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE *RIGHTOUESNESS.<Moral Right Doing>

ROMANS 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good,G5544 no, not one.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5544
χρηστότης; chrēstotēs From G5543; usefulness, that is, moral excellence (in character or demeanor): - gentleness, good (-ness), kindness.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:33 Be not deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals. G2239

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G2239
ἦθος; ēthos A strengthened form of G1485; usage, that is, (plural) moral habits: - manners

……………..

Christian bible dictionary definitions agree with the Hebrew and Greek scriptures shown above...

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828

MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]

1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness. Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue. Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.

2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.

3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.

Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.

Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.

4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.

5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.

................

CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]

1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.

2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.

[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

CEREMONIAL, n.

1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.

2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

................

So according to the God's Word (not mine) all of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment are Moral laws not a ceremonial law like some claim. Sorry Bob, it seems God's Word disagrees with you here.

Not really Bob, the only way anyone of us can come to a knowledge of God's truth is if they seek JESUS through his Word asking prayerfully that he may be their guide and teacher and it is only to the Word of God that I point anyone that has ears to hear and eyes to see. He must increase but I must decrease. It is only in him that is the light of life that all must be brought to know. This is my prayer for not just you but for everyone else here.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Good work...HalleluYah you have so many pearls to toss...lol

what I find helpful for those who wish to have it simplified is this:

Yahushua taught the first shall be last and the last shall be first...so I apply it to what He gave at Sinai

So looking at His Living Oracles backwards

don't covet
you won't lie thinking it's yours
you won't steal it
you won't adulterate the owner's relationship to it
you won't have to fight possibly kill
you won't dishonor your family

ALL THESE are EASILY accepted by MOST humans everywhere...and are logical...by reason alone...and most civilized humans actually follow them...

its the first 4 that actually state WHY...and for what reason...they point to the WHY YOU WISH TO LIVE IN HARMONY AND JUSTICE AND PEACE (you were made to desire that)

So it it the first four of the living oracles that address this:

WHICH god are you worshipping?...HOW are you worshipping?...WHEN are you worshipping? WHERE is His temple? TO WHOM is your sacrifice? which sacrifice? how is it offered? WHEN IS IT OFFERED?

WHY are you washing and purifying yourself THIS way? EATING this food?...ALL reflect DIRECTLY back to the first 4 of His living oracles...

so...the last 6 READILY ACCEPTED...the first 4 VERY SPECIFIC and UNIQUE and makes for Himself a peculiar people...a HOLY people after His NAME...and finally REMADE INTO HIS IMAGE...TO LIVE AS ACCORDING TO HIS WILL...and finally forever WITH HIM

having kept the first six there is now a day of Rest (4th backwards is 7th neat eh?)
and to rest IS worship HalleluYah
There is no other image/idol
There is only Him

Is WHY we do it all...at all

The best for last HalleluYah