Adam ?

[Ken Rank]

Adam was made with the air (heaven) dust (ground without form) and water which contained darkness/death and were made APART from the perfect God. Only God is immortal and perfect. In order to be as God, one must be born again, Spiritually.

Sometimes I wonder if folks just have more time than me and can pick things apart for the sake of finding something to debate. I said, "God is perfect and Adam was made less than God." That means God is perfect... which you just said again, saying the same thing I did so why waste the time? Just asking... not trying to upset you or cause any strife here.

Adam is not yet "good" and won't be until the Rapture when he puts back on his perfect body. It happens at the end of the present 6th Day/Age.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But God created for 6 days, and during that time the created included Adam. At the end of 6 days, God looked at "ALL" He created (all includes Adam) and God declared it all to be "good."

God knew Adam would fall before the foundation of the world, and that is WHY Jesus had to die for man's sins in God's mind.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,(anti-Christ) whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yes, I know. Genesis 1:14 also tells us that God knew Adam would fall before He created him. Can you tell me how?

 

[Aman777]

You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But God created for 6 days, and during that time the created included Adam. At the end of 6 days, God looked at "ALL" He created (all includes Adam) and God declared it all to be "good."

Amen, BUT the 6 Days/Ages continue, as shown by the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31...UNLESS you can tell us of a time in the past when Humans (Adam) had dominion or rule over "over every living thing that moveth upon the earth". Also, tell us WHEN in the past "every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so" as Gen 1:30 states. IOW, the verses above show prophecy of FUTURE events, which take place at the end of the present 6th Day/Age.

 

[Ken Rank]

Amen, BUT the 6 Days/Ages continue, as shown by the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31...UNLESS you can tell us of a time in the past when Humans (Adam) had dominion or rule over "over every living thing that moveth upon the earth". Also, tell us WHEN in the past "every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so" as Gen 1:30 states. IOW, the verses above show prophecy of FUTURE events, which take place at the end of the present 6th Day/Age.

Again, you are welcome to believe whatever you want. I see the 6 days as literal. If he can raise a man from the dead who had been dead 3 days, calm weather, darken skies, cause many events to take place that land outside the realm of "natural," then He can created the Earth in 6 literal days.

As far as dominion... Paul wrote that "all of creation groans as it awaits it's redemption." Why does it await it's redemption? Because all of creation, like humans, is dying. Death was not part of the initial equation, death came as a result of sin. Now, not only are we born with a block ticking, so is everything else in "nature." Plants, trees, animals, planets, even stars die.... all because of sin, all because of Adam's sin. Adam and what he had authority over is what has been effected and seeing all of creation is effected, than he had dominion over what was created. It might belong to God, God is the creator, but He placed Adam over it all.

 

[Aman777]

Again, you are welcome to believe whatever you want. I see the 6 days as literal. If he can raise a man from the dead who had been dead 3 days, calm weather, darken skies, cause many events to take place that land outside the realm of "natural," then He can created the Earth in 6 literal days.

Then you must believe that Satan told Eve the Truth and the Lord lied. The Lord told Adam:

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:4 ¶ And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

With your ancient understanding, the Lord God lied and Satan told the Truth. The ONLY way the Lord can be telling the Truth is IF today remains the 6th Day/Age. We live today at Gen 1:27 because God the Trinity is STILL creating mankind/Adam, in His Image, which is in Jesus Christ, Spiritually, and He is. EVERY man lives and dies on the present 6th Day/Age in the creation of the perfect Third Heaven.

As far as dominion... Paul wrote that "all of creation groans as it awaits it's redemption." Why does it await it's redemption? Because all of creation, like humans, is dying. Death was not part of the initial equation, death came as a result of sin. Now, not only are we born with a block ticking, so is everything else in "nature." Plants, trees, animals, planets, even stars die.... all because of sin, all because of Adam's sin. Adam and what he had authority over is what has been effected and seeing all of creation is effected, than he had dominion over what was created. It might belong to God, God is the creator, but He placed Adam over it all.

Not yet. It won't happen until AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth to rule and reign for a thousand years. Isaiah 11 tells all about those days when Bears and Lions will eat straw like the Ox. Isa 11:7 Amen?

 

[Ken Rank]

Then you must believe that Satan told Eve the Truth and the Lord lied. The Lord told Adam:

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:4 ¶ And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

No, not in the least. I am assuming you can read Hebrew? The English might say "surely you will die" but the Hebrew says mut t'mut.... "dying you will die." It denotes the PROCESS that leads to death, not an immediate death.

 

[Aman777]

No, not in the least. I am assuming you can read Hebrew? The English might say "surely you will die" but the Hebrew says mut t'mut.... "dying you will die." It denotes the PROCESS that leads to death, not an immediate death.

When Adam sinned, he changed from his appearance like Jesus, into the likeness of sinful flesh. Since all Humans have descended from Adam, ALL Humans die on the present 6th Day, the Day of Salvation. Adam lived with Jesus for Billions of years BEFORE he sinned and never knew death, so I accept your view that all Humans are dying BUT we are still on this Earth. Those who die, leave this Earth today, at the end of the present 6th Day/Age, in God's 7 Day Creation.

Jesus:>> 2Co 6:2 (For He saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

 

[Ken Rank]

When Adam sinned, he changed from his appearance like Jesus, into the likeness of sinful flesh. Since all Humans have descended from Adam, ALL Humans die on the present 6th Day, the Day of Salvation. Adam lived with Jesus for Billions of years BEFORE he sinned and never knew death, so I accept your view that all Humans are dying BUT we are still on this Earth. Those who die, leave this Earth today, at the end of the present 6th Day/Age, in God's 7 Day Creation.

Jesus:>> 2Co 6:2 (For He saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

First of all, you didn't even address my point at all. The Hebrew is literally "dying you will die." Ask any Hebrew scholar. It denotes a process that leads to death. Now, I do agree, things changed, I tend to believe Adam was encased in light but that the light dimmed when he sinned and that is why he could see that he was naked. But again, that doesn't address the point that you made, that I addressed, and that you ignored. "Surely you will die" is really "dying you will die."

That aside, you have "zero" biblical evidence that Adam lived for "billions of years." Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but cause you can't support it with the only true authority of record we have (the bible) then you can't make a case with it. You can believe it all you want, Aman, but don't expect anyone else to. I don't... it MIGHT be that he was here long ago... but until anyone can "prove" otherwise, I'll stick with a young Earth and an Adam that lived 930 years... the bible says he did.

 

[miknik5]

When Adam sinned, he changed from his appearance like Jesus, into the likeness of sinful flesh. Since all Humans have descended from Adam, ALL Humans die on the present 6th Day, the Day of Salvation. Adam lived with Jesus for Billions of years BEFORE he sinned and never knew death, so I accept your view that all Humans are dying BUT we are still on this Earth. Those who die, leave this Earth today, at the end of the present 6th Day/Age, in God's 7 Day Creation.

Jesus:>> 2Co 6:2 (For He saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

No. We are presently living (those who believe and are born again) as a new 8th day creation

Just as circumcision was a lower shadow and sign of
Just as Noah and his family together made 8 new men who crossed over into a new day was a sign of

Thorough CHRIST lord of the seventh day, 6th day man, through faith in HIS covering are washed and made a new /8t day creation


That’s happening now

 

[Ken Rank]

No. We are presently living (those who believe and are born again) as a new 8th day creation

Just as circumcision was a lower shadow and sign of
Just as Noah and his family together made 8 new men who crossed over into a new day was a sign of

Thorough CHRIST lord of the seventh day, 6th day man, through faith in HIS covering are washed and made a new /8t day creation


That’s happening now

I agree there is process that is occurring that will lead to our perfection, but, respectfully, I don't agree we are currently living as a new creation yet (at least not anywhere near the fullness that we will). I say that because even if it has lost its sting (because of the hope we have in Christ) we still taste death... the wage of sin. And, we are still exposed to all manner of unrighteousness in the world around us. And though I can list off other reasons, I think I can rest my case on 1 Cor. 1:22 and 1 Cor. 5:5 which state that the Holy Spirit was given as a deposit, a down payment... which by definition means there is more to come.

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>Adam lived with Jesus for Billions of years BEFORE he sinned and never knew death, so I accept your view that all Humans are dying BUT we are still on this Earth.

First of all, you didn't even address my point at all. The Hebrew is literally "dying you will die." Ask any Hebrew scholar. It denotes a process that leads to death. Now, I do agree, things changed, I tend to believe Adam was encased in light but that the light dimmed when he sinned and that is why he could see that he was naked. But again, that doesn't address the point that you made, that I addressed, and that you ignored. "Surely you will die" is really "dying you will die."

I quoted my agreement with your view.

That aside, you have "zero" biblical evidence that Adam lived for "billions of years." Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but cause you can't support it with the only true authority of record we have (the bible) then you can't make a case with it. You can believe it all you want, Aman, but don't expect anyone else to. I don't... it MIGHT be that he was here long ago... but until anyone can "prove" otherwise, I'll stick with a young Earth and an Adam that lived 930 years... the bible says he did.

Was Adam made on the present Earth or the first Earth which was totally destroyed in the flood? According to 2 Peter 3:3-7 Verse 6 says the kosmos that THEN WAS perished, which in Greek means destroyed totally. The next verse speaks of the world (kosmos) WHICH IS NOW. Can you see the difference?

Adam lived with Jesus from BEFORE the beginning of our Cosmos

First of all, you didn't even address my point at all. The Hebrew is literally "dying you will die." Ask any Hebrew scholar. It denotes a process that leads to death. Now, I do agree, things changed, I tend to believe Adam was encased in light but that the light dimmed when he sinned and that is why he could see that he was naked. But again, that doesn't address the point that you made, that I addressed, and that you ignored. "Surely you will die" is really "dying you will die."

That aside, you have "zero" biblical evidence that Adam lived for "billions of years." Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but cause you can't support it with the only true authority of record we have (the bible) then you can't make a case with it. You can believe it all you want, Aman, but don't expect anyone else to. I don't... it MIGHT be that he was here long ago... but until anyone can "prove" otherwise, I'll stick with a young Earth and an Adam that lived 930 years... the bible says he did.

Adam lived for 930 years AFTER he and Eve were "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually in Christ. Gen 5:5 This was AFTER Cain killed Abel Gen 4:8 on the first Earth, which was clean dissolved in the flood. Isa 24:19 Until Adam and Eve were born again Spiritually, they were dead to God the Trinity. All Humans (descendants of Adam) are dead to God unless they are born Spiritually by the Trinity (God). Today God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit continue to change sinners into Eternal Immortal Beings, in Christ. Ask any Gospel preacher.

 

[Aman777]

No. We are presently living (those who believe and are born again) as a new 8th day creation

UnScriptural since this verse says:

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day.

God's rest is FUTURE to our time:

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

God has but 7 Days and we live today at Gen 1:27 since God the Trinity is STILL creating Adam/mankind in His Image Spiritually. Gen 1:28-31 speaks of events which will happen AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon, in the future, at the end of the present 6th Day/Age in the creation of the perfect Heaven. The 7th Day is Eternity, and has NO beginning and NO end. It's God's rest.

 

[Aman777]

I say that because even if it has lost its sting (because of the hope we have in Christ) we still taste death...

Humankind is subject to death BUT Christians are not. We shall never die. We may leave this Earth, but we will be present with Jesus, our Lord. He said:

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The question is do you live and believe in Jesus? If so, you shall never die. God Bless you

 

[miknik5]

Humankind is subject to death BUT Christians are not. We shall never die. We may leave this Earth, but we will be present with Jesus, our Lord. He said:

Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The question is do you live and believe in Jesus? If so, you shall never die. God Bless you

UnScriptural since this verse says:

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day.

God's rest is FUTURE to our time:

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

God has but 7 Days and we live today at Gen 1:27 since God the Trinity is STILL creating Adam/mankind in His Image Spiritually. Gen 1:28-31 speaks of events which will happen AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon, in the future, at the end of the present 6th Day/Age in the creation of the perfect Heaven. The 7th Day is Eternity, and has NO beginning and NO end. It's God's rest.

Not unscriptural at all.

You seem to have left off Hebrews 4:3

It’s WHY The GOSPEL is preached
Because those who believe (just as you noted to Ken( do indeed have ETERNAL LIFE)

It’s just that genuine faith will be made manifest in those who wait by HOPE in HIM.

And not all have genuine faith

 

[Aman777]

And not all have genuine faith

Where do we get this "genuine" faith?

 

[miknik5]

Where do we get this "genuine" faith?

In CHRIST

please read the scripture which discusses how GOD refines us do that our faith more precious than gold WILL PROVE GENUINE (you’ll find this in Peters letters)

If you have read the WORD of TRUTH you should know this

 

[miknik5]

All the circumstances of physical fleshly life still have an affect on us. And HE warned us that we indeed would have trouble in this world

But guess who overcame for us...

And Those who continue to wait by HOPE in the ONE who will come to restore and make ALL THINGS NEW are receiving the goal of THEIR FAITH

Which is directed in and on HIM alone

 

[2tim_215]

In addition to the actual Hebrew translation, technically speaking, Adam died spiritually and it wasn't until Jesus " introduced" the Holy Sprit who had been dormant all those years and which was revived once we became born again, and became once more "alive".

Another thing to consider is in the verse where God tells Adam "he will surely die", Adam went from being an eternal being to a being that would see death. God did not tell Adam that he would die on the spot. He now retained a limited lifespan. So therefore, the "father off all lies" who told Eve that she surely WOULD NOT die was the one who was lying, not God.

 

[Eloy Craft]

God made Adam perfect. with Eve they were established in Original Justice with preternatural gifts.
The gifts allowed them to communicate with angels preserve the body in the immortality of the soul
and Grace. When Adam sinned the powers of intellect no longer ruled. The lower sensitive powers of the soul rebelled and the body of Adam was no longer obedient but mo0ved involuntarily. This caused him shame. He became subject to the urge to reproduce. They covered their loins . The powers of nature in his soul and on earth and the animals became hostile to him. the sin changed his world profoundly.

Difficult for us to distinguish the changes because we experience only the fallen world. Nothing to compare

 

[Aman777]

In CHRIST

please read the scripture which discusses how GOD refines us do that our faith more precious than gold WILL PROVE GENUINE (you’ll find this in Peters letters)

If you have read the WORD of TRUTH you should know this

What must you do to obtain this Gift of Faith? After all, in order to believe in Christ and His resurrection from the dead, it takes a special Faith. Men don't just rise from the dead. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

In addition to the actual Hebrew translation, technically speaking, Adam died spiritually and it wasn't until Jesus " introduced" the Holy Sprit who hadn't been dormant all those years and which came revived once we became born again, became once more "alive".

That would mean that God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost made an error when they created Adam in Christ eternally. Doesn't work since God is incapable of error. Adam was formed the 3rd Day by Jesus Gen 2:7 and "created" in Christ by God (The Trinity) after Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2

Another thing to consider is in the verse where God tells Adam "he will surely die", Adam went from being an eternal being to a being that would see death. God did not tell Adam that he would die on the spot. He now retained a limited lifespan. So therefore, the "father off all lies" was the one who was lying, not God.

Amen, but that means that TODAY is still the 6th Day/Age in the creation of the perfect 3rd Heaven. This is because God is STILL creating Adam/mankind in Christ. We are stuck in time at Gen 1:27 and we will not advance to the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 until AFTER Jesus returns to this planet. Amen?