Adam ?

[2tim_215]

That would mean that God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost made an error when they created Adam in Christ eternally. Doesn't work since God is incapable of error. Adam was formed the 3rd Day by Jesus Gen 2:7 and "created" in Christ by God (The Trinity) after Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2
I agree with you that doesn't make mistakes (as others may claim). It's just that God had different "dispensations" with man during the time before Jesus and then after.


Amen, but that means that TODAY is still the 6th Day/Age in the creation of the perfect 3rd Heaven. This is because God is STILL creating Adam/mankind in Christ. We are stuck in time at Gen 1:27 and we will not advance to the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 until AFTER Jesus returns to this planet. Amen?

Yes, He still is in the process of creating more and more human beings and you're right and until this occurs we (and all creation) wait on the manifestation of the sons of God.

 

[Aman777]

Yes, He still is in the process of creating more and more human beings and you're right and until this occurs we (and all creation) wait on the manifestation of the sons of God.

Amen. Your Scriptural knowledge is appreciated. God Bless you

 

[2tim_215]

Amen. Your Scriptural knowledge is appreciated. God Bless you

And you too. There's many saints on this forum (including yourself) who have true scriptural knowledge unfortunately not all).

 

[miknik5]

What must you do to obtain this Gift of Faith? After all, in order to believe in Christ and His resurrection from the dead, it takes a special Faith. Men don't just rise from the dead. Amen?

ONLY IF THE ONE WHO WAS RAISED WAS HOLY FROM THE BEGINNING

 

[miknik5]

Adam didnt live 3 billion years

That is unscriptural

Adam lived 930 years

That is scriptural


Why would you suggest something outside the WORD of GOD

We’re told not to

Please show where according to scriptures it is written that Adam lived 3 billion years

Thanks

 

[miknik5]

Sometimes I wonder if folks just have more time than me and can pick things apart for the sake of finding something to debate. I said, "God is perfect and Adam was made less than God." That means God is perfect... which you just said again, saying the same thing I did so why waste the time? Just asking... not trying to upset you or cause any strife here.



You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But God created for 6 days, and during that time the created included Adam. At the end of 6 days, God looked at "ALL" He created (all includes Adam) and God declared it all to be "good."



Yes, I know. Genesis 1:14 also tells us that God knew Adam would fall before He created him. Can you tell me how?

Can you tell me if Aman ever gave you an answer to your question? I don’t seem to see it. In fact, I’m noticing that Aman responds with a question rather than answering the question posed


Also, how could Adam have been saved if CHRIST had not yet come into the world to lay down HIS life and seal and mark those who would believe and belong to HIM by HIS shed blood?

 

[miknik5]

By the way, genesis 5 says Adam lived 930 years and died
Adam surely died

 

[Ken Rank]

Can you tell me if Aman ever gave you an answer to your question? I don’t seem to see it. In fact, I’m noticing that Aman responds with a question rather than answering the question posed

No, he didn't.

Also, how could Adam have been saved if CHRIST had not yet come into the world to lay down HIS life and seal and mark those who would believe and belong to HIM by HIS shed blood?

Let's skip ahead to David because he still falls before Christ, so into the position you are placing Adam but better serves me to make my point.

There is a good chance (not 100%, just a good chance) that the King we know as "David" was not known to his people as "David." That Hebrew word means, "beloved," and very well could be what God called him because God clearly had a relationship with David. Even if not the case, it can't be a coincidence that the one God called, "the apple of my eye" had a name that means my beloved. The question shouldn't be, "was David saved?" the question should be, "how could the beloved of God, the apple of His eye, one God had a relationship with NOT be saved?" Well, here is how I deal with this...

We are not alive during the time of Yeshua's death and resurrection. And so we live looking BACK at what he accomplished. David, lived looking FORWARD to the work he would accomplish. So we are both looking to Yeshua and what he would do in order to clean the slate... but we are simply looking from two different directions. We live looking back, David lived looking forward but we are both looking toward the same person (if you will) and the same events.

What about Adam? Well, God told them what was going to happen in Genesis 3:15, did He not? If Adam lived looking forward to that day and the work that God would do to make it happen... does Adam have to understand every detail of how God was going to restore all things or is it enough that his heart was aimed at God in love and trust and in FAITH knowing that God would see this thing through? Adam lived looking forward to Yeshua's work even though at that time, he didn't understand how each detail would come to pass.... just as WE don't understand every end time detail and don't tell me we do ( ) because if you go there I will provide you with a Christian bookstore that has 250 end time books and not one of them agrees 100% with the other as to how things will unfold. We don't know it all... we just know that Yeshua did the work that was necessary and we trust him for the rest. Adam, Noach, Abraham, Moses, David.... they lived looking forward to the work, KNOWING it would come, but not knowing every detail.

So the answer is... they are saved by grace through faith just as we are... just from the other side of the event. They accepted God would do the work and we live knowing He did... but our hearts are in the same place.

 

[Ken Rank]

The question is do you live and believe in Jesus? If so, you shall never die. God Bless you

My grandmother lived for Christ, prayer all the time... was a light in a dark world and yet she died 10 years ago. That is the wage of sin, Aman. She tasted death.... yes I believe she has eternal life and so there is no sting to her death because once she opens or when she opened her eyes after taking her last breath in this life, she saw the Lord in the next and will never leave His presence again. She has eternal life, but she also died.

 

[Ken Rank]

By the way, genesis 5 says Adam lived 930 years and died
Adam surely died

Yes he did and that was the wage of death. The "Surely you will die" in Hebrew it mut t'mut... Dying you will die... a process that leads to death. That process is something we call aging but also decay and disease. Adam wouldn't have tasted death without sinning, but once he did sin he lived 930 years and then paid up.

 

[Aman777]

ONLY IF THE ONE WHO WAS RAISED WAS HOLY FROM THE BEGINNING

Are you suggesting that Jesus was NOT a man, that He did not come in the flesh?

 

[Aman777]

Adam didnt live 3 billion years

That is unscriptural
Adam lived 930 years
That is scriptural

Adam was formed of the dust on the 3rd Day BEFORE the plants, herbs and trees. Gen 2:4-9 Adam was "created" on the 6th Day along with Eve. Eve was not formed from Adam's rib until the 6th Day. Gen 2:22 AFTER Adam and Eve were created in God's Image, or born again Spiritually in Christ, Gen 5:1-2 Adam and Eve lived for 930 years before they went to be with Jesus. Gen 5:5 That is God's Truth Scripturally

Why would you suggest something outside the WORD of GOD
We’re told not to
Please show where according to scriptures it is written that Adam lived 3 billion years

Sure. Adam was made on the 3rd Day by the Hands of Jesus/Lord God. Gen 2:4-7 The Big Bang of our Cosmos was 13.8 Billion years ago at the END of the 3rd Day, Gen 2:4 which agrees with the datings of Science. Adam lived from the 3rd Day until the present 6th Day which means that he lived more than 14 Billion years in Earth time. Remember that he was perfect, like Jesus, and like all Christians will be in Heaven, so Billions of years go by quickly when you live in the Eternal present.

Some 12-14k years ago, Adam sinned, but was born again Spiritually after Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2 Some 1750 years later, Noah brought Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 to our world of Apes. Soon, Jesus will return and all the living will go with Him to the 3rd Heaven of ll Cor 12:2. God Bless you

 

[miknik5]

No, he didn't.



Let's skip ahead to David because he still falls before Christ, so into the position you are placing Adam but better serves me to make my point.

There is a good chance (not 100%, just a good chance) that the King we know as "David" was not known to his people as "David." That Hebrew word means, "beloved," and very well could be what God called him because God clearly had a relationship with David. Even if not the case, it can't be a coincidence that the one God called, "the apple of my eye" had a name that means my beloved. The question shouldn't be, "was David saved?" the question should be, "how could the beloved of God, the apple of His eye, one God had a relationship with NOT be saved?" Well, here is how I deal with this...

We are not alive during the time of Yeshua's death and resurrection. And so we live looking BACK at what he accomplished. David, lived looking FORWARD to the work he would accomplish. So we are both looking to Yeshua and what he would do in order to clean the slate... but we are simply looking from two different directions. We live looking back, David lived looking forward but we are both looking toward the same person (if you will) and the same events.

What about Adam? Well, God told them what was going to happen in Genesis 3:15, did He not? If Adam lived looking forward to that day and the work that God would do to make it happen... does Adam have to understand every detail of how God was going to restore all things or is it enough that his heart was aimed at God in love and trust and in FAITH knowing that God would see this thing through? Adam lived looking forward to Yeshua's work even though at that time, he didn't understand how each detail would come to pass.... just as WE don't understand every end time detail and don't tell me we do ( ) because if you go there I will provide you with a Christian bookstore that has 250 end time books and not one of them agrees 100% with the other as to how things will unfold. We don't know it all... we just know that Yeshua did the work that was necessary and we trust him for the rest. Adam, Noach, Abraham, Moses, David.... they lived looking forward to the work, KNOWING it would come, but not knowing every detail.

So the answer is... they are saved by grace through faith just as we are... just from the other side of the event. They accepted God would do the work and we live knowing He did... but our hearts are in the same place.

They those who lived prior to CHRIST coming into the world could not be made “perfect” without us. And none of us are made “perfect” without the GRACE which was to come in, by and through CHRIST JESUS

All those who prophecied pointing ahead to CHRIST did not fully understand all that they prophecied

They do now and they know that they were in service to us. The generation who would benefit by HIS coming and the GRACE of GOD to those who would believe

 

[Ken Rank]

They those who lived prior to CHRIST coming into the world could not be made “perfect” without us. And none of us are made “perfect” without the GRACE which was to come in, by and through CHRIST JESUS

All those who prophecies pointing ahead to CHRIST did not fully know all that they prophecied

They know now that they were in service to us. The generation who would benefit by HIS coming

Well, we aren't perfect yet... we can still sin and we still die. We are perfected, changed, upon His return. What we have now is a deposit/ down payment in the form of the Holy Spirit (please look up 2 Cor. 1:22 and 5:5) that acts toward what we will be getting. And, God didn't just become a God of grace once Yeshua came... God doesn't change, He has ALWAYS been a God of grace and ALWAYS been a God of Law. You can't read the story of Joseph and not see grace. Really, we can't read Adam and not see grace for he was compelled to leave the garden which kept him from having access to the tree of life in a fallen state.

As for your other points... even if they did not fully know and understand the prophecies doesn't mean they weren't looking for a redeemer. The first messianic prophecy, most agree, is Genesis 3:15. So, if Adam believed that and lived for that day... then how is that any different than us being born after looking back at the work Genesis 3:15 pointed to? Whether we look forward or back... we are still looking to Christ whether we fully understand the depth of his work, or not.

Otherwise, Moses, Abraham, Noach... those men included in Hebrews 11 as examples of FAITH are not saved? They burn in hell because of when they were born? That is not consistent with the character attributes of God.

 

[Aman777]

Ken Rank said: ↑
Sometimes I wonder if folks just have more time than me and can pick things apart for the sake of finding something to debate. I said, "God is perfect and Adam was made less than God." That means God is perfect... which you just said again, saying the same thing I did so why waste the time? Just asking... not trying to upset you or cause any strife here.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But God created for 6 days, and during that time the created included Adam. At the end of 6 days, God looked at "ALL" He created (all includes Adam) and God declared it all to be "good."

Not so, since we must first fulfill the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 before God declares it to be very good. Remember, that God sees the end from the beginning Isa 46:10 and He would NEVER declare it to be good/perfect until it is. In the next 24 hours thousands of babies will starve to death. God's work continues today and it will not be perfect until the end of the present 6th Day/Age in the creation of Heaven.

***Yes, I know. Genesis 1:14 also tells us that God knew Adam would fall before He created him. Can you tell me how?

No. Can you explain your obvious insight of this verse?

Gen 1:14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

 

[Aman777]

Also, how could Adam have been saved if CHRIST had not yet come into the world to lay down HIS life and seal and mark those who would believe and belong to HIM by HIS shed blood?

The same way Abel, Noah, David, Solomon and every other person who lived before Jesus died on the Cross. Jesus Christ is the Light of the FIRST Day. Gen 1:3 Without Him was not anything made which was made. John 1:3 Adam and Eve were "created in God's Image" which is created Spiritually in Christ. Gen 5:1-2 No man has ever seen God at any time but many saw Jesus/Lord God in the Old Testament.

 

[Aman777]

By the way, genesis 5 says Adam lived 930 years and died
Adam surely died

Adam left the first Earth BUT he and Eve are alive today with Jesus. Read Gen 5:1-2 to see when they were created in God's Spiritual Image. God's Image IS Jesus Christ.

Col 1:15
¶ Who IS the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

 

[Aman777]

My grandmother lived for Christ, prayer all the time... was a light in a dark world and yet she died 10 years ago. That is the wage of sin, Aman. She tasted death.... yes I believe she has eternal life and so there is no sting to her death because once she opens or when she opened her eyes after taking her last breath in this life, she saw the Lord in the next and will never leave His presence again. She has eternal life, but she also died.

Death is eternal separation from God, to me. I shall NEVER die but I will leave this Earth. I'm like your grandmother who is waiting for her grandchildren to join her.

 

[Ken Rank]

Death is eternal separation from God, to me. I shall NEVER die but I will leave this Earth. I'm like your grandmother who is waiting for her grandchildren to join her.

The bible calls your physical death "death" and therefore, you will die.

 

[Aman777]

The bible calls your physical death "death" and therefore, you will die.

Jesus said: Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I believe Jesus and not religious views. 2Co 5:8 Don't you know that Eternal Life means that you don't have to die? Your body does, but Not your Eternal Spirit. I shall NEVER die, thanks to Jesus. Amen?