Abortion

[LilAngelHeart]

Originally posted by Pray4Isrel
For those who want a Biblical stance on the issue of abortion, check this out:

Psalm 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.
Psalm 139:14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.
Psalm 139:15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret , And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.


"For you formed my inward parts" - This clearly and concisely speaks of God forming/creating the life withing the womb. If God has created life then life starts at conception since God is the forming the parts. This speaks of the role God plays in each childs forming in the womb. Undeniably, God has formed the child so the child is not a mass of cells - the child is a living breathing baby.

"You wove me in my mother's womb" - This also speaks of God's "weaving" of the life within the womb. Meaning the distinct formation of the baby. You see, even though the baby does not look like a baby this early in the pregnancy, it is still a baby. God is involved with the pregnancy and has taken part in the proces. He would not want us to kill what He has created.

"I will give thanks to you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made" - David sees the complexity of the creation of life. from the very color of our eyes, the hair color we have, the coor of our skin, even doen to the allergies we may have - all of these are astonishing - that all of these traits are coded in our DNA at conception. (and this is also scientifically proven). If God's creation is fearfully and wonderfully made, why destroy it.

"Wonderful are your works and my soul knows it very well" - These "works" David is speaking of are the details of the creation of life. His soul knows these things meaning there is spiritual significance to life. We are created with souls.

"My frame was not hidden from you" - There is no stage of the pregnancy where the baby is "hidden" from God or unknown. If God knows each stage of life then there is no acceptable stage to kill.

"When I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth" - this speaks of the special intimacy in "secret" when a child is conceived. This proves life begins at conception since he was made "In secret" - which conception is the exact moment - a secret moment. God is involved in each life no matter where on this earth we are. rejoice in that fact that God had His hand in your very creation from conception. This is why babies with defects should not be aborted. God does not make mistakes. If he forms us in our mother's womb then He formed us perfectly no matter what we chose to label as a defect.

"Your eyes have seen my unformed substance" - this is the proof - the biblical evidence - that abortion is wrong, that life begins at conception. For God has seen our unformed substance. though still forming, God sees us! We are alive at conception. Once again, a baby might not look like a baby at conception but it is a baby!

"And in your book were all written the days that were ordained for me" - If God ordains our each and every day - records our lives in His book - He has a purpose for us. By aborting a child we are ending the book. We are rewriting our own ending. We make Him weep for every child we kill. For He has a wonderful story for each of us. How dare we end Almighty God's amazing ordained and created lives stretched before us by aborting. Imagine writing a story - a parental love story for a precious daughter or son only to have that son or daughter murdered and never given the chance to live the dream.

"when as yet there was not one of them" - This is another evidence of the sanctity of life. God knows each day before we are even conceived. Why rip away His creation from Him? he created the life - who are we to destroy it? God knows all our days before we even exist here on earth.

This is one of many cases against abortion in the Bible as well as Biblical proof for life at conception.

Very good post!!! Yes I agree! God knows all of us and when He sees a baby concieved, He sees the person the child will become after birth walking an

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Originally posted by Pray4Isrel
For those who want a Biblical stance on the issue of abortion, check this out:

Psalm 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.
Psalm 139:14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.
Psalm 139:15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret , And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.


"For you formed my inward parts" - This clearly and concisely speaks of God forming/creating the life withing the womb. If God has created life then life starts at conception since God is the forming the parts. This speaks of the role God plays in each childs forming in the womb. Undeniably, God has formed the child so the child is not a mass of cells - the child is a living breathing baby.

"You wove me in my mother's womb" - This also speaks of God's "weaving" of the life within the womb. Meaning the distinct formation of the baby. You see, even though the baby does not look like a baby this early in the pregnancy, it is still a baby. God is involved with the pregnancy and has taken part in the proces. He would not want us to kill what He has created.

"I will give thanks to you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made" - David sees the complexity of the creation of life. from the very color of our eyes, the hair color we have, the coor of our skin, even doen to the allergies we may have - all of these are astonishing - that all of these traits are coded in our DNA at conception. (and this is also scientifically proven). If God's creation is fearfully and wonderfully made, why destroy it.

"Wonderful are your works and my soul knows it very well" - These "works" David is speaking of are the details of the creation of life. His soul knows these things meaning there is spiritual significance to life. We are created with souls.

"My frame was not hidden from you" - There is no stage of the pregnancy where the baby is "hidden" from God or unknown. If God knows each stage of life then there is no acceptable stage to kill.

"When I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth" - this speaks of the special intimacy in "secret" when a child is conceived. This proves life begins at conception since he was made "In secret" - which conception is the exact moment - a secret moment. God is involved in each life no matter where on this earth we are. rejoice in that fact that God had His hand in your very creation from conception. This is why babies with defects should not be aborted. God does not make mistakes. If he forms us in our mother's womb then He formed us perfectly no matter what we chose to label as a defect.

"Your eyes have seen my unformed substance" - this is the proof - the biblical evidence - that abortion is wrong, that life begins at conception. For God has seen our unformed substance. though still forming, God sees us! We are alive at conception. Once again, a baby might not look like a baby at conception but it is a baby!

"And in your book were all written the days that were ordained for me" - If God ordains our each and every day - records our lives in His book - He has a purpose for us. By aborting a child we are ending the book. We are rewriting our own ending. We make Him weep for every child we kill. For He has a wonderful story for each of us. How dare we end Almighty God's amazing ordained and created lives stretched before us by aborting. Imagine writing a story - a parental love story for a precious daughter or son only to have that son or daughter murdered and never given the chance to live the dream.

"when as yet there was not one of them" - This is another evidence of the sanctity of life. God knows each day before we are even conceived. Why rip away His creation from Him? he created the life - who are we to destroy it? God knows all our days before we even exist here on earth.

This is one of many cases against abortion in the Bible as well as Biblical proof for life at conception.

Very good post!!! Yes I agree! God knows all of us and when He sees a baby concieved, He sees the person the child will become after birth walking and talking because that unrecognizable group of cells is the same person. What about when a person has some kind of accident and they become unrecognizable, they are still the same person inside right?


*~·´¯`·¸.~¤LïlÃñge£Heårt¤~*

 

[bwearsie95]

A baby/child/embryo do not become aware of their existence until they are about two.  They don't understand the concept therefore they do not know.

 

[Baptistgal]

=) I hope that didn't mean that since they don't know then it's ok for those of us who DO know to get rid of them?

 

[seebs]

(mod hat on)

Moved to Philosophy and Morality. This is being discussed as a moral question, and it has very little if anything to do with Apologetics.

 

[msjones21]

you know, animals nowadays are more humane than humans are.

Well, in the wild, a mother animal will either abandon or eat her offpsring that cause her an inconvenience when it comes to caring for her other offspring. In a way it's almost like a post-natal abortion, if there were such a thing.

In regard to the OP, if there's one thing I detest more than an ignorant lifer argument it's an ignorant choicer argument. Being pro-choice and extremely knowledgable about abortion from both sides of the spectrum, it makes me sad to see someone who shares my stance be so clueless about the human mechanism that is a fetus. Granted, a fetus cannot feel physical pain until much later into gestation, but it is still a living, human entity.

And Keep the Faith, some day you'll look back and remember the words you posted on an internet message forum and you're going to feel like such a foolish child. I can't fault you because you're so young, but I know that regardless of whether or not your stance on abortion changes in five or ten years, the manner in which you deliver your opinion will change drastically. You will see that boldly stating "you're an idiot because I disagree, science sucks, and oh yeah, I'm like so right and you're wrong and your opinion is dumb" does not prove what you stated (that you are mature for your age).

 

[caitlincares]

I believe abortion is OK because a fetus is not a living human. It has no brain, it can not think, it can not feel emotions like love, hate, compassion, anger, fear, etc. It is not even aware of it's own existence! It is life, but it is not alive. The life and well-being of the woman is far more important than the life of the embryo. Scientifically, a fetus is a cancerous growth. Removing an embryo is no more immoral than removing a cancer tumor. Ruining somone's life with an unwanted baby IS immoral. Cancelling a pregnancy is not.

A baby at any stage is a "child of God". He allowed the conception to happen.
How dare we mere humans think we know better than God.
All the science mumbo jumbo in my mind is garbage.
It is very simple do you want to "DIS" God and His creation.

 

[LilChrist]

"We know that its killing, but the state permits killing under certain
circumstances"
--Dr. Neville Sender, abortionist
"Even now I feel a little peculiar about it, because as a physician I was
trained to conserve life, and here I am destroying it."
--abortionist
Livers (8 weeks), 30% discount if significantly fragmented (meaning severely mutilated during the abortion procedure): $150
Spleens (8 weeks): $75
Pancreas (8 weeks): $100
Kidney (8 weeks): $125
Brain: $999
Ears: $50
Eyes: $75
Skin (12 weeks): $100
Lungs and heart block: $150
Intact cadaver (8 weeks): $400
Spinal cord: $325

FRESH FETAL
TISSUE
HARVESTED & SHIPPED
ACCORDING TO YOUR
SPECIFICATIONS
Maternal Viral & Bacterial
Markers Available
All specimen collections
meet NIH guidelines
Opening Lines
800-490-9980
Tissue Requested: Brain 22-23 wk, (whole brain)
Specifications: Passive Frozen acceptable, LN2 also
Shipping: Ship on Dry ice.

Tissue:
Liver 12-15 wks. (whole if possible)
Procedure:
1) Handle tissue under "sterile"
conditions.
Ultimately to be used for
Primate Implantation

NORMAL FETAL
Kidney, Heart, Lung, Liver, Spleen,
Pancreas, Skin, Smooth Muscle,
Skeletal Muscle, Brain
Constraints: Need 5-10 samples of each per
month 15 to 24 weeks gestation.
Store and ship on Dry Ice
Ship next day FEDERAL EXPRESS.

More women die within a year of an abortion than at any other time.

 

[LilChrist]

Also, if anyone uses the arguement that abortion is okay if it is because of rape:95% of abortions are done as a means of birth control
1% because of rape or incest
1% because of fetal abnormalties
3% due to the mother’s health problems
Oh, and something I forgot to mention before in regard to the woman's health being more important then a fetus': Women face injuries to the uterus, cervix, urinary tract, infection, hemorrhage, heart
failure, embolism, sterilizations, ruptured intestines & bowels, coma, and even death. In
addition, there are countless cases of abortionists sexually abusing their clients while under the influence of anesthesia. In fact, you’re four times more likely to die in the year
following your abortion. Further, women who have abortions suffer mental health
declines, while those who deliver their child actually have improved mental health.

Just something to think about...
Nathan J. L.

 

[LilChrist]

Please do not look at the following link if you have a weak stomach. These are pictures of "abortions".
http://www.christianforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11907&stc=1http://www.christianforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11907&stc=1

 

[caitlincares]

Just because something is legal in the secular world does not make it right according to God.
God is the one I seek to trust and obey.

 

[transientlife]

Also, if anyone uses the arguement that abortion is okay if it is because of rape:95% of abortions are done as a means of birth control
1% because of rape or incest
1% because of fetal abnormalties
3% due to the mother’s health problems
Oh, and something I forgot to mention before in regard to the woman's health being more important then a fetus': Women face injuries to the uterus, cervix, urinary tract, infection, hemorrhage, heart
failure, embolism, sterilizations, ruptured intestines & bowels, coma, and even death. In
addition, there are countless cases of abortionists sexually abusing their clients while under the influence of anesthesia. In fact, you’re four times more likely to die in the year
following your abortion. Further, women who have abortions suffer mental health
declines, while those who deliver their child actually have improved mental health.

Just something to think about...
Nathan J. L.

I have no doubt the decision to terminate a pregnancy is one of the most heart wrenching, nerve racking, all-questioning, and terrifying decisions a girl can make. Not to mention most girls probably go into the decision scared out of their wits and with heavy hearts before anything has happened. Those that use it as a (regular) form of birth control.... I just don't know what to say to that. If you're gonna make the decision to have sex, then think ahead and rely on some form of birth control or contraception so you shouldn't ever have to put yourself in that sort of situation, IMO.

 

[LilChrist]

If you're gonna make the decision to have sex, then think ahead and rely on some form of birth control or contraception so you shouldn't ever have to put yourself in that sort of situation, IMO.

The only sure-fire birth control is abstinance...no other form can be garunteed to work. "Those who delay sex until marriage will experience freedom from unplanned pregnancies, STDs, premature marriage, side effects of condoms/contraceptives, guilt, doubt, disappointment, worry, and intensified feelings of rejection."
That kind of thing is definitely your choice, but other statistics show that Christians that wait until marriage have the best sex than any other. Anyhow, all birth control stuff does is abort the baby before it forms. Still, it is abortion. Murder, to quote a certain abortionist(quote in previous message).

 

[LilChrist]

By the way, caitlincares, you're right.

 

[transientlife]

Definition of conception: when an egg and sperm meet to form a child....correct?
Birth control is not abortion. Birth control is pills of hormones that prevent egg implantation as well as thicken cervical mucus to prevent sperm from meeting with the egg. Therefor no baby is conceived, the sperm is expelled with the rest of the bodily fluid and the egg is shed during the pill-period and never the twain shall meet - if all goes right. If you retain that it is abortion, then every woman who menstruates has an abortion month after month when the unfertilized egg is shed, and the unsuccessful sperm is flushed out with the bodily fluids.
I agree the only sure fire is abstinence...but in reality not everyone will follow that, if you teach ONLY abstinence, I think you are also teaching ignorance in a sense, because then if the person decides to engage in sex, they will be ill-informed. Which will give you teen pregnancies and spread of STDs, etc)
That is just my opinion.

 

[transientlife]

If the child is conceived and the pill keeps the fertilized egg from attaching, then I suppose you could call that an abortion - but it would happen unknowingly and if you wanted to call that on any woman, you'd have to live in her reproductive system and see first hand.

 

[LilChrist]

If you choose to have sex, you should be prepared for the consequences. You should not try to escape them, killing what might have been. Abortion--killing what is. Birth Control(condoms, etc.)--killing what might have been. Also, when teens are having sex ed in school, they rarely are taught abstinence. But let's say they taught abstinence, and all the "safe sex" stuff. Chances are, if you really educated them in abstinence and all the dangers of sex, they'll want to wait until marriage, where they won't have to deal with worries or dangers. They'll step into what God called them into peacefully and with God's consent.

 

[transientlife]

If you choose to have sex, you should be prepared for the consequences.

Absolutely.

You should not try to escape them, killing what might have been. Abortion--killing what is. Birth Control(condoms, etc.)--killing what might have been.

To each their own. There is no definitive evidence how often a fertilized egg is "aborted" by hormonal birth control as opposed to it being done by the woman's body or other medications she's taking.

Also, when teens are having sex ed in school, they rarely are taught abstinence.

I didn't even have much sex ed in school from what I remember...I thought the national deal with our Repub. Pres. was teaching abstinence

But let's say they taught abstinence, and all the "safe sex" stuff. Chances are, if you really educated them in abstinence and all the dangers of sex, they'll want to wait until marriage, where they won't have to deal with worries or dangers. They'll step into what God called them into peacefully and with God's consent.

Safe sex education is educating them on the dangers of sex. If it isn't, then I'm mistaken and it should be.

 

[LilChrist]

Safe sex teaches them how they might avoid the dangers of sex. There is never a garuntee. It doesn't teach all the dangers. There are still dangers that can't be avoided by all the "safe" techniques. For instance, the emotional trauma that failure of birth control causes...
Also, I recently read a book which you may or may not have heard of, depending on whether you are into polotics or talk-show radio. Before you say it's off the subject, I'll tell you what happened in the book, The Way Things Oughtta Be. He wrote some spoofs of condom ads...which, if it wouldn't sicken the audience, would be what ads would really be like. In one instance a teacher was encouraging the kid to use the condom, compared to ten years ago, the student may have been expelled. I'm still in school and know this to be true. In one school kids were trained in how to have sex. Many kids threw up. This is schools today. Sex ed today. It's changed a lot. By the way, with those things implanted in their minds, I'm sure many of them have all ready had abortions.

 

[transientlife]

Safe sex teaches them how they might avoid the dangers of sex. There is never a garuntee. It doesn't teach all the dangers. There are still dangers that can't be avoided by all the "safe" techniques. For instance, the emotional trauma that failure of birth control causes...

They should be informed that nothing is guaranteed, except abstinence, I agree.
Most girls should know (if they are on birth control) that if they take their pills incorrectly that there will be a heightened risk of failure. That's why you take it at the exact same time (or as close as possible) every day. Most times, if you have a conscientious dr., they will go over all of that with you.

Also, I recently read a book which you may or may not have heard of, depending on whether you are into polotics or talk-show radio.

Nah I have quite an aversion to politics, but go ahead

Before you say it's off the subject,

I don't care if it is or not, I want to know anyway

I'll tell you what happened in the book, The Way Things Oughtta Be. He wrote some spoofs of condom ads...which, if it wouldn't sicken the audience, would be what ads would really be like. In one instance a teacher was encouraging the kid to use the condom, compared to ten years ago, the student may have been expelled. I'm still in school and know this to be true. In one school kids were trained in how to have sex. Many kids threw up.

Yikes, ok, yeah that's not what I was expecting sex ed to be. I don't see the point in training how to have it--it's a rather natural act and humans have procreated all these centuries without teachers to teach them. The measly sex ed class we had in school was more an anatomy thing with the obligatory giggles and childish asides. High school was a bit better with some public speakers.

This is schools today. Sex ed today.

God help us