Abortion

Hector Medina · Nov 23, 2002

KeepTheFaith15,

You are very right about what you said.

Another thing is that:

In 1973 the U.S. supreme court ruled that a unborn fetus is not a person.
Therefore abortion would not be commiting murder and is a way to respect the choice of a womens rights.

And they call themselvess "pro-choice"..............

In 1934 the Nazi German High Council ruled that a Jew is NOT a person therefore it is not murder when extermintaing a inferior animal closest to the ape so we could deal with the Jewish problem.

Did this stand up at Nurnburg in '46 ->NO.

This is another way to look at it.

Hector

KeepTheFaith15 · Nov 23, 2002

i tell it like it is seesaw if you dont like it then im sorry, i offend people when i KNOW im right and their wrong. you must be one of those people seesaw that thinks science created everything and not god right? haha WRONG

kaotic · Nov 23, 2002

i tell it like it is seesaw if you dont like it then im sorry, i offend people when i KNOW im right and their wrong.

No you only think you know what's right.

you must be one of those people seesaw that thinks science created everything and not god right? haha WRONG

I guess you don't know science. No one thinks science created everything. But you are right I don't believe in god and I believe he didn't create everything. But that is for another time.

So no I am not one of the people that think that science created everything cause we know it didn't.

kaotic · Nov 23, 2002

no one should insult or be rude to anyone over a post that is crazy.

KeepTheFaith15 · Nov 23, 2002

abortion is wrong and im right on this one i dont just think im right but i do know one thing and that is i "think" your dumb. science sucks.

kaotic · Nov 23, 2002

Originally posted by KeepTheFaith15
abortion is wrong and im right on this one i dont just think im right but i do know one thing and that is i "think" your dumb. science sucks.

That's fine if you think I am dumb. I will just put you on my ignore list for now.

HannoverFist · Nov 23, 2002

abortion is wrong and im right on this one i dont just think im right but i do know one thing and that is i "think" your dumb. science sucks.

Wowee.

May I quote you?

 

kitten · Nov 23, 2002

Okay, back on topic. In the case where a fetus/baby dies in utero & the mother does not naturally miscarry within a safe time frame, a doctor must perform an abortion to remove it - is that wrong?

Lanakila · Nov 23, 2002

Its not an abortion if the baby is already dead kitten. It's a D & C procedure to rid the womans body of the dead baby. The slippery slope is babies aren't aware of their own existence long after birth, so we should be able to kill them, if they are unwanted even at 6 months, right? No way, and you or I would most likely agree that it is murder to kill an infant. Children don't really understand that they are a person till after a year old or so. Identity identification cannot be the standard of life. Life is just this life. A human baby inside the womb, although dependent upon the mother is alive. After the same human baby is born it is still dependent upon either the mother or someone else to take care of it. Human babies will not survive unless someone takes care of them. Independence cannot be the standard either. Viability is a problem because medical science has advanced so much that very, very young fetuses can survive outside the womb (with much medical intervention).

HannoverFist · Nov 23, 2002

Actually I halfway disagree.  Newborns may not be aware of their existence (or then again they may be, I am far from educated enough to say), but they still possess higher brain functions.  I don't think it's moral to "abort" babies which have already been born.

Sentience might be a good way of defining an intelligent life form, but I would be willing to allow for it in the case of a newborn.

Viability is indeed another issue, and I think it has merit, although you are correct in that we can "grow" test tube babies... what makes them not viable if we can grow them from day one?  Perhaps viable on their own, outside the womb.  But even then they cannot sustain themselves of course, we must manualy feed them and such (unlike some lesser animal species).

She Believes · Nov 23, 2002

kaotic · Nov 23, 2002

Originally posted by She Believes
By William Kilgore 
 
The Scriptures undeniably teach that God Himself Personally creates every child in the womb of the mother (Deut. 32:18; Job 31:15; Psalm 94:9; 139:14-16; Ecc. 11:5; Isaiah 44:2,24; 49:5), and knows them intimately before they are even born (Judges 13:5,7; 16:17; Psalm 22:10; 139:13-18; Isaiah 49:1,5; Jeremiah 1:5; Luke 1:15; Romans 9:11; Galatians 1:15). (NOTE: Im willing to bet that God knows full well what He is doing when He creates a child in the womb.)
 Furthermore, God is the One Who opens and closes the womb -- He decides when children are conceived (Genesis 3:16; 20:18; 29:31; 30:2,22; 41:52; 48:4; 49:25; Deut. 28:11,18; 1 Sam. 1:5-6; 2:5; Ruth 4:13; Psalm 22:9; 71:6; 113:9; 115:14; 127:3; Ecc. 3:2; Isaiah 46:3; 66:9; Hosea 9:11-16; Heb. 11:11). (NOTE: Yet so many today feel that they know better than God whether or not they should have a child. Why?)
 Children in the womb are alive, not simply a fetus (Jeremiah 20:17; Hosea 12:3; Luke 1:41,44; Romans 9:11). Pregnant women are with child (Genesis 16:11; 1 Sam. 4:19; 2 Sam. 11:5; 2 Kings 15:16; Ecc. 11:5; Isaiah 26:17-18; Jeremiah 31:8; Hosea 13:16; Amos 1:13; Matthew 1:18,23; 24:19; Mark 13:17; Luke 2:5; 21:23; 1 Thes. 5:3; Rev. 12:2), not simply with fetus.  <A name=top1></A>Clearly, God also cares about infants (Isaiah 49:15; Luke 18:15-16).
 It is also clear that God desires the birth of children (Genesis 1:28; 8:17; 9:1,7; 35:11; Psalm 127:3-5; 1 Tim. 5:14); all children, regardless of the circumstances, are a blessing - His gifts (Genesis 4:1; 17:20; 28:3; 33:5; Deut. 7:13; 28:11; 30:9; 33:24; Neh. 9:23; Psalm 113:9; 127:3-5; 128:3-4). When God chastised King David for his adulterous affair and subsequent murder of Bathsheba's husband, He took the life of the baby through illness. Many today would actually be pleased to have such an "out"! Yet David, despite his sin of adultery, fasted seven days before God in the hope that his infant would live! David knew that the infant, though conceived in adultery, was a gift from God. (NOTE: How different from modern attitudes, huh?)
 God alone claims absolute sovereignty and right over life and death (Deut. 32:9; Numbers 16:22; 27:16; 1 Sam. 2:6; 2 Sam.12:14-19; 2 Kings 2:3,5; 2 Chronicles 13:20; Job 6:8-9; 7:1; 10:9-13; 12:10;14:5-6,14; 34:13-15; Psalm 31:15; 36:6; 42:8; 66:9; 104:29; Isaiah 42:5; Daniel 5:23; Acts 17:25,28; Heb. 9:27; James 4:12). 
To take the life of the unborn is therefore a violation of Exodus 20:13 -- it is murder. In fact, the case laws in Exodus address abortion in a way. Exodus 21:22-23 reads (my notes in parenthesis):
If men strive (= fight), and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her (= she gives birth prematurely), and yet no mischief follow (= the baby is fine): he shall be surely punished, according as the womans husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine (= a fine). And if any mischief follow (= the baby dies), then you shall give life for life ...
So then, there is a fight and a pregnant woman is injured so that she gives birth prematurely. The guilty one is punished either way it goes, but if the baby dies he faces the penalty for murder. This seems clear to me: God considers the unborn infant to be life and to kill it murder.

Heh did you get that from here.

http://www.flash.net/~thinkman/articles/abortion.htm

She Believes · Nov 23, 2002

UGH!! Yes I did. And I just deleted it. It wasnt suppose to look like that. And I cant put any links in yet.

Stormy · Nov 23, 2002

(This is my last post here at CF. If I post again it would be #666)

I see that you are still here as an observer.

LOL You got to be kidding.

kaotic · Nov 23, 2002

Originally posted by She Believes
UGH!! Yes I did. And I just deleted it. It wasnt suppose to look like that. And I cant put any links in yet.

yeah I think you need to turn off html. I think you goto control panel, then Options, then Use vBCode quick links on your message input screens? choose no.

Stormy · Nov 23, 2002

Of course I have never aborted a child. But I did have one miscarriage.

To this day I wonder who he would have been if he had lived. But I will never know. Because no matter how many children I have ... he will never be born. I wasn't given the chance to know him.

Fetus are not just clusters of cells they are the beginning of a distinct individual. No two people are alike.

Instead of saying that you had an abortion. You should be asking... who did I stop from having his life?

fin · Nov 24, 2002

This question can not be answered with science. It is a moral question to which there are no satisfactory answers.

OldBadfish · Nov 24, 2002

Originally posted by fin
This question can not be answered with science. It is a moral question to which there are no satisfactory answers.

Good point, but it can be satisfactorily answered by Gods word and human standards of morality. A good scientist will admit that science does not have all the answers, including our origins and the origin of the universe, and scientific moralization.

Anyway, my opinion is that abortion is wrong, however I believe there are extenuating circumstances that could morally and religiously warrant an abortion.

Like the case of the 9 year old, impregnated rape victim argument we had many times in the past.

LilAngelHeart · Nov 24, 2002

Originally posted by ocean
Since my thread was shut down by the mods yesterday, I am going to post a new one, and this time I will post a reason for my opinion. Please don't close this thread.

 

I believe abortion is OK because a fetus is not a living human. It has no brain, it can not think, it can not feel emotions like love, hate, compassion, anger, fear, etc. It is not even aware of it's own existence! It is life, but it is not alive. The life and well-being of the woman is far more important than the life of the embryo. Scientifically, a fetus is a cancerous growth. Removing an embryo is no more immoral than removing a cancer tumor. Ruining somone's life with an unwanted baby IS immoral. Cancelling a pregnancy is not.

That is a sick way to look at a little baby!!

Once a life is concieved, it *is a baby no matter how smalll or how early.

*~·´¯`·¸.~¤LïlÃñge£Heårt¤~*

LilAngelHeart · Nov 24, 2002

Originally posted by Stormy
Of course I have never aborted a child. But I did have one miscarriage.

To this day I wonder who he would have been if he had lived. But I will never know. Because no matter how many children I have ... he will never be born. I wasn't given the chance to know him.

Fetus are not just clusters of cells they are the beginning of a distinct individual. No two people are alike.

Instead of saying that you had an abortion. You should be asking... who did I stop from having his life?

Exactly!!!

*~·´¯`·¸.~¤LïlÃñge£Heårt¤~*

Abortion

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