Abortion

[Morat]

You do realize at one time you were a fetus.

 And one day I'll be a corpse. So? I'd be quite unhappy if you embalmed me now.

   Whether I'm a person now doesn't mean I always was, or always will be.

Aren't you glad that your mom did not analyze her pregnancy into nothing more than an evil cancer and receive treatment to rid her self of you.

   Why? I'd have never been around to know I wasn't going to be around.

   That's frankly just as rational as asking me aren't I glad my parents didn't have sex 2 minutes later, because if they had, I wouldn't be here.

   So?

Your logic eludes me.

   As does yours me.

 

 

[Stormy]

Morat:

OK enough of this silliness.

You believe that abortion is a perfectly acceptable method of birth control. Is that right? Even late term abortion?

 

[Messenger]

FIRSTBORN (Heb. bekhor, Gr. prototokos). The Hebrew word is used chiefly of men but also of animals (Exod 11:5). Because the first-born of the Israelites were preserved at the time of the first Passover, every firstborn male of man and beast became consecrated to God (13:2; 34:19); the beasts were sacrificed, while the men were redeemed (13:13, 15; 34:20; cf. Lev 27:6; cf. Luke 2:27). At Sinai the Levites were substituted for the Israelite firstborn (Num 3:12, 41, 46; 8:13-19).


Among the Israelites the first-born son possessed special privileges. He succeeded his father as the head of the house and received as his share of the inheritance a double portion. Israel was the Lord's firstborn (Exod 4:22) and was thus entitled to special privileges, as compared with other peoples. Jesus is described as the firstborn (Rom 8:29; Col 1:15; Heb 1:6; cf. Ps 89:27).#

Clinical abortions are not addressed in the Bible. But the value of the unborn is clearly seen in texts that speak of their value and of judgments on those who kill them.


The value of the unborn (Job 31:15; Ps 139:13-16; Ecc 11:5; Isa 44:2, 24; 49:1,5; Jer 1:4; Lk 1:41-45).

 

My stand is abortion is wrong plain and simple. I do see other's points of view of abortion being okay but I see them as wrong. I am not so certain on many issues but abortion I have just always believed was WRONG....I state it as fact because I see it as fact. I see it no differently than asking me if it would be okay to put someone to death if they were paralized or if you had a child and just couldn't afford to take care of them or didn't have the time. I see all pregnancy as life. The fact is that God commanded us not to kill.

Now what I said about eating meat...you used this in your arguement...Jesus told us it is not what goes into our mouth but what comes out. I could search the bible and find it but I believe you already know that eating meat was ok by Jesus. I see nothing saying abortion is ok.

We are to follow the laws of the land as long as they do not go against God. Abortion is not really a law 1st of all....it is just not against the law at this point. 2nd Abortion is against God....Show me scripture stating it is not and I'll show you how you misinterpret the scripture.

I don't claim to know everything but Abortion is Wrong and that I do KNOW. I understand that there are certain instances when abortion may seem like a good idea but this is Satan's lies. Abortion kills and that is wrong....so to answer the original question

NEVER  

Love and God Bless,

Messenger

 



 

 

[Morat]

You believe that abortion is a perfectly acceptable method of birth control. Is that right? Even late term abortion?

  Why would you think that? Abortion is a form of birth control. As in "it prevents birth".

   So, to wit: I think using abortion as the sole form of birth control is stupid, and probably proof positive you should be locked into a chastity belt until you grow a clue. After all, it's expensive, invasive, and while quite safe as medical procedures go, still not worth the pain and time.

   Nope. When it comes to birth control, I heartily recommend the Pill, Norplant, Condoms, IUD's, and even abstinence. Heck, if possible, double up on methods.

   However, if those fail, I suggest EC first and RU-486 second, and finally a physical abortion third.

   But that's just first trimester. Ideally you should prevent the pregnancy from ever occuring, or failing that, abort prior to implantantion. Healthier, you know.

   I support third-trimester abortions only in cases of danger to the mother, or a dead or dying fetus. After all, at that point, the fetus is viable.

    I tend to, in general, oppose abortions after viability.

   I in now way consider a first trimester fetus to be a person. I, in general, consider a third trimester fetus to be close enough for jazz, so to speak, and would rather err on the side of caution.

   In the second trimester, since the line is fuzzy, I go with viability because I do feel it is ethically unsound to force one person to support another against their will. Once the fetus is viable, it can survive on it's own and this is no longer the case.

  But abortion as "birth control"? Rather stupid. The Pill is much more workable. The Pill plus a condom even more so. But, if you do get pregnant, I think it should certainly be an option. I'm not the one pregnant, after all.

 

 

 

[DaveKerwin]

 

[SimpleChristian]

morat...didn't like my analogy?

So...on what basis do you base your opinion on the baby in the first trimester?

 

[Mallory Knox]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin

Oh, thank you for making me look at that. Payback:

http://poetry.rotten.com/attempted-suicide/attempted-suicide.jpg

How old is that fetus anyway?

 

 

[LouisBooth]

"It was not intended to equivocate humans and other animals"

yes, you did. You said ALL life taking is wrong. Saying taking a human life is EXACTLY like taking an animal life. This is not true. Again, you're logically wrong.

"No, you made the claim, you supply the link."

Acutally mal, you made the claim that they are NOT life. So you're the one that needs to supply the evidence. I will when you will. I have the bible on my side So I'll be waiting for your evidence.

 

[Mallory Knox]

Fine! But remember what we were talking about, it's the age at which they can survive outside the mother. This is actually an anit-abortion page, I think. But it has the viability at about 5-6 months.

http://abortioninfo.net/facts/development4.shtml

 

[Messenger]

A baby cannot survive outside the womb without a mother to nurse that baby or to give the baby a bottle...How about if you can't fend for yourself...Oh well you die...NOT my Fault...what type of human are you anyway if you just lie there depended on me??? Sick way of thinking. A fetus is a Baby...DUH! Sorry but ABORTION IS WRONG!
This is why I try and state a fact and move on!

Love and God Bless...Don't Kill God's Babies!
MESSENGER

 

[Mallory Knox]

Originally posted by Messenger
A baby cannot survive outside the womb without a mother to nurse that baby or to give the baby a bottle...How about if you can't fend for yourself...Oh well you die...NOT my Fault...what type of human are you anyway if you just lie there depended on me??? Sick way of thinking. A fetus is a Baby...DUH! Sorry but ABORTION IS WRONG! 

"Duh"? You should try out for the debate team. Your comments mean nothing if all you have to say is "duh".

As I've explained many, many, MANY times before, of course an infant can't survive without protection, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying if it can't survive outside the body of the mother, it's a part of the mother. Can you really not see the difference? Once it's a baby it can survive under the care of any competent person. It's a human being because it is physically developped enough to live separate of the womb.

 

[Stormy]

Mallory: Your reasoning does not make sense.

A child... not being able to survive outside of the womb...is a reason against having an abortion... not a reason for an abortion.

There is a lack of logic in your stance.

 

[Stormy]

Tell me Mallory...

Why would a women even want to have an abortion?

Also... Are you arguing that it is not a human baby so as to free the women of guilt over the murder?

 

[Mallory Knox]

Originally posted by Stormy
Mallory: Your reasoning does not make sense.

A child... not being able to survive outside of the womb...is a reason against having an abortion... not a reason for an abortion.

There is a lack of logic in your stance.

You perceive a lack of logic in my stance because you only hear what you want to hear.

Of course a child not being able to survive outside of the womb is not a reason for an abortion. I don't advocate abortion. I think abortion under any circumstances is a tragic loss of life. But I think that there are circumstances where abortion is excusable. And I think that if the fetus cannot survive outside of a parasitic relationship with the mother, it is not truly human life, and it IS NOT MURDER to kill it. My stance is perfectly logical and so is yours. Something being absolutely logical does not make it an absolute truth and it does not make in undebatable and it does not make it a fact. It simply makes it logical.

 

[Mallory Knox]

Originally posted by Stormy
Tell me Mallory...
Why would a women even want to have an abortion?

1. because she would die giving birth

2. because she was brutally raped and can't stand the thought of the thing growing inside her

Also... Are you arguing that it is not a human baby so as to free the women of guilt over the murder?

Careful, you're starting to sound a bit like SimpleChristian. No, I'm arguing it's not a human life because I don't believe it is a human life.

 

[Stormy]

Mallory: So you would like to see the abortion laws changed as to limit the reasons acceptable for abortion. You will also agree that late term abortions or even second tri-master abortions are wrong!

Are my assumptions of your thoughts correct?

 

[Mallory Knox]

Originally posted by Stormy
Mallory: So you would like to see the abortion laws changed as to limit the reasons acceptable for abortion. You will also agree that late term abortions or even second tri-master abortions are wrong!

Are my assumptions of your thoughts correct?

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN? Yes, your "assumptions" of my thoughts are correct.

 

[Stormy]

Mallory : OK!! Your stance that abortions should only be performed... in the case of rape and/or extreme health risk to the mother and then only during the first trimester... is a vote to overturn Roe vs Wade!!!

You are pro-life!!!

I know this is not enough for a lot of the Christians that post. But I see this world and its inhabitants as imperfect.

I am a realist ... I would be very thankful if we could save the number of children that have been murdered sine enactment of the evil... Abortion Rights Law.

 

[Messenger]

I do not believe Abortion is right. The cases Mallory made...

 
1) death of the mother....will if the mother dies the baby may also...but do we chose to kill a baby over a maybe? I wouldn't. I wouldn't want an abortion to take place without every effort taken to save both mother and baby first.

2)rape...I would hope many would chalk the baby up for something good that came from something bad...even if they felt they had to give the baby up for adoption. I would rather they use a morning after pill or incase of rape make the person abort the first month...you wait too bad. Otherwise you will have a lot cry "rape" and also the baby developes more...Again I would rather no abortion. But in the case of rape or incest especially when it is a child I can understand an early abortion.

I would rather say NO ABORTION...but that day will come when Christ returns. The case for Abortion only in extreme circumstances would be greatly better than what we have now. If that were to happen and the laws were changed to make abortion less available I would see it as a victory.

Sorry I bug you so bad Mallory. I do see all fetus as life...it doesn't matter that they can't survive outside the mother.

Have a good weekend....I'm heading off to Six Flags with my 4 children. Take Care.

Love and God Bless,
Messenger

 

[Mallory Knox]

Originally posted by Stormy
Mallory : OK!! Your stance that abortions should only be performed... in the case of rape and/or extreme health risk to the mother and then only during the first trimester... is a vote to overturn Roe vs Wade!!!

You are pro-life!!!  

Yes. As I have said over and over and over and over again.