abortion good or bad?

[Starcrystal]

Abortion? As a Christian for 20 years I've felt it to be wrong, bad, sin, etc.
Recently (like last night) my wife had an ultrasound at 7 weeks. The tiny little 1.02 centimeter creature had a beating heart and they even showed its heartrate at 128 bpm on the ultrasound screen. So it is alive and has a heart.

I'd seen still photos of ultrasounds before but never a "live" version.

For anyone to corner such a defenseless creature in the womb and pull it apart with suction devices, or burn it with chemicals or however else they kill such "fetuses" is murder of the most cowardly and foul kind. I've believed that for 20 years, but seeing the life in actual motion makes it even more convincing. And remember - every single one of us started out that same way.

The doctors and scientists can argue their rhetoric all they want to the courts - but nothing could convince any rational person of the simple facts that it is life - even in the early stages, and to take that life is an act of sin and evil.

By the way, I've had friends whove had abortions and I forgave them....

 

[CITFH]

I recently had a lengthy debate with a friend regarding the issue of abortion, specifically whether or not it should be permitted in the cases of rape or incest. I said "No," they said, "yes." Their position is in my mind quite possibly the hardest position to justify. If one were to be adamantly pro-life, one could use the arguments such as sanctity of life, immorality, and societal impact to build a case. If one were staunchly pro-abortion, you have the so called "right to choose," convenience, and inequality of gender roles defenses. It is this awkward middle ground position, that, like in a battle ground draws fire from both sides.

I would use very different arguments to debate abortion with someone that was totally in favor of it. However, I am specifically debunking this argument: Abortion is wrong most of the time, except in cases of rape or incest. Here is the logical steps I used to come to my conclusion:

​

IF: Life begins at the moment of conception (even planned parenthood, America's largest abortion provider concurred 4 years before Roe v. Wade, '... at least one [sperm] will reach the egg, fertilize it, and conception will take place. A new life will begin.'- Conception, Birth and Contraception [Approved by Planned Parenthood and SIECUS in 1969 as "a fine book" with a "solid base for understanding ... reproduction"])
THEN: Abortion is taking innocent life (murder)
​

IF: Taking innocent life (murder) is morally wrong
THEN: Abortion is wrong

Once we have come to the conclusion using Boolean logic that abortion is in fact wrong. We get into the nitty-gritty of what would constitute an exception. I first set up the known facts: A woman was raped by a man; A man raped a woman; A person (child which has been previously proven) was conceived as a result.

I then proceeded to flush out the logic and assumptions whereby a woman would inherit the "right" to abort based upon that scenario. It went something like this: A woman has a right to do whatever she sees fit to alleviate her pain after such a violation; aborting a small child helps a mother because they rid themselves of a "reminder" of the violation or at the very least give some feeling of relief. While good intentioned, this is simply not true.

I closed by explaining that the "rape and incest" loophole argues the following: A person can knowingly kill another person if they have been sexually violated. Essentially, "my pain" allows me to take "your life." Another way to put it is "Wrong was done to me so I will do wrong to you," which often times is the very logic used by the rapist...Among other reasons, the world health organization (WHO) lists:
1. Growing up in a family environment characterized by physical violence, little emotional support, and few economic resources
2. Poverty – mediated through a crisis of masculine identity
3. And having been sexually abused as a child


The important thing is to value life because it is intrinsically meaningful. To do this will mean protecting the liberties and sexuality of woman from the horrible violation that is rape or incest. However, it will also mean protecting the life of the innocent unborn child from the violation of a doctors forceps.

 

[xapis]

I will respond by saying two wrongs don't make a right. Rape/incest is absolutely wrong. There's no dispute there. However, as we've already established, murdering the unborn is absolutely wrong, too.

A person can knowingly kill another person if they have been sexually violated. Essentially, "my pain" allows me to take "your life."

I could maybe understand this argument if the life she takes is the rapist's. The baby is not guilty of any wrongdoing, therefore, should not be punished for the pain inflicted upon the mother.

Another way to put it is "Wrong was done to me so I will do wrong to you," which often times is the very logic used by the rapist

This vicious cycle of unwarranted violence can be broken if that retaliatory wrong is never committed.

 

[loopie]

I just wanna say that big sin or small sin, its still a sin. A lie is a sin, getting angry is a sin, murder is a sin. We're all sinners - everyday we sin whether consciously or subconsciously! It is only because of Jesus and His work, Him ALONE! that we are saved - Not by our own Works, but by Faith that His Blood Redeems Us Thank YOu Jesus!

 

[Latreia]

... but basically what I am saying is I believe it is wrong, I could never do it myself(haven't been put in any situation yet where as I would have to make that choice...and pray to God I never am in a situation like that) I don't believe that it should be illegal, just more strictly regulated and more information given before it is done (because there would be countless numbers of back street abortions being done if it were made illegal (I know there are probly people in this country that still have them, but it would be more prevalent if it was made illegal), and those would not only kill the baby, but might kill the mother, and or prevent her from having wanted children later... NOT that I agree with it being used as birth control), I can understand to some point wanting one in cases of rape, incest, or life of the mother...but I believe all options should be explored before an abortion is done...
one box of soap...hold the soap

This is not an issue for simplistic, or idealistic, or even moralistic snap judgement. I will say that abortion should be legal to address the horror of backstreet abortions. Please realize that it is not always the woman, or girl, that makes the choice. Many are forced by their boyfriends or pimps, or because they are hooked on drugs. Research what crack addicted babies suffer. Remeber that Catholics were obliged to be against contraception and that was catastrophic for poor families. Poverty was and is a factor. Children have the right to be born, more than that, they have the right to be born into a world that guarantees them protection, nurture, and love. Bringing them into an environment and or situation guaranteed to cause them pain and suffering must be considered by you who automatically consider that sole factor is whether abortion is murder or not. And it is, but that is not the only consideration.

But this issue must include all factors and considerations involved. And that means tackling the PRIORITIES in order of severity and devastation. Those against abortion would find their ranks filling up faster by addressing those reasons, or even those pathetic excuses in favor of the horror. More groups dedicated to preventing pregnancies and activist promotion of contraceptives. More competent adoption agencies and programs.

While we are at it, tackle the horrors of child molestation, parental abuse, global trafficking and prostitution of children. Check out the use of child soldiers, trained to be merciless killers, trained to be living bombs. While we are at it, demand to know why these laws with real teeth in them to protect children from kidnapers and rapists are only RECENTLY being enacted? WHY have our policians and those in the legal professions been so indifferent about the protection of both children and women from abuse and murder?

Why has the medical profession been so SLOW for DECADES in not developing far better methods of contraception and treatment of women's health issues? Abortions could have been virtually elimated as a method of birth control that became merely a method of hideous killing of babies.

Why haven't the children of the WORLD been prevented from starving to DEATH?? The U.S. has given billions of dollars to some of the same countries that do not spend it on their citizens' families. Why should there be the existance of illiteracy and poverty in this world today. This planet has the economical capacity to be populated by global citizens of earth to live good lives.

Being against any act of taking a life is only as important as nurturing the lives that have already been born as well as preparation for those whom we demand to be born.


Agape

 

[JunkYardDog]

This is not an issue for simplistic, or idealistic, or even moralistic snap judgement. I will say that abortion should be legal to address the horror of backstreet abortions. Please realize that it is not always the woman, or girl, that makes the choice. Many are forced by their boyfriends or pimps, or because they are hooked on drugs. Research what crack addicted babies suffer. Remeber that Catholics were obliged to be against contraception and that was catastrophic for poor families. Poverty was and is a factor. Children have the right to be born, more than that, they have the right to be born into a world that guarantees them protection, nurture, and love. Bringing them into an environment and or situation guaranteed to cause them pain and suffering must be considered by you who automatically consider that sole factor is whether abortion is murder or not. And it is, but that is not the only consideration.

But this issue must include all factors and considerations involved. And that means tackling the PRIORITIES in order of severity and devastation. Those against abortion would find their ranks filling up faster by addressing those reasons, or even those pathetic excuses in favor of the horror. More groups dedicated to preventing pregnancies and activist promotion of contraceptives. More competent adoption agencies and programs.

While we are at it, tackle the horrors of child molestation, parental abuse, global trafficking and prostitution of children. Check out the use of child soldiers, trained to be merciless killers, trained to be living bombs. While we are at it, demand to know why these laws with real teeth in them to protect children from kidnapers and rapists are only RECENTLY being enacted? WHY have our policians and those in the legal professions been so indifferent about the protection of both children and women from abuse and murder?

Why has the medical profession been so SLOW for DECADES in not developing far better methods of contraception and treatment of women's health issues? Abortions could have been virtually elimated as a method of birth control that became merely a method of hideous killing of babies.

Why haven't the children of the WORLD been prevented from starving to DEATH?? The U.S. has given billions of dollars to some of the same countries that do not spend it on their citizens' families. Why should there be the existance of illiteracy and poverty in this world today. This planet has the economical capacity to be populated by global citizens of earth to live good lives.

Being against any act of taking a life is only as important as nurturing the lives that have already been born as well as preparation for those whom we demand to be born.


Agape

In other words, "If you want to really stop abortion then you will adopt Planned Parenthood's agenda." No, thanks, I've heard all that claptrap before.

How about simply stopping MURDER! I am not worried about "root causes" as much as I am about the innocent, helpless babies being MURDERED. If you think someone else's problems are bigger than that, you have a very warped prespective.

 

[Latreia]

In other words, "If you want to really stop abortion then you will adopt Planned Parenthood's agenda." No, thanks, I've heard all that claptrap before.

How about simply stopping MURDER! I am not worried about "root causes" as much as I am about the innocent, helpless babies being MURDERED. If you think someone else's problems are bigger than that, you have a very warped prespective.

OK

 

[holyorders]

This sounds morbid but it is true. We (the Pro-life) will outnumber the pro-abortion people from the fact that we will be having babies. They are actually killing virtually all of their future supporters. In the end God will win regardless.


abortion is always wrong. God's plans are more trustworthy than human plans.

 

[Solomonthewise]

I stand on the side of truth and truth is simple, Thou shall not kill/murder!!!!!!!

No matter what cercumstance! if its such a huge deal that you cannot keep the baby then have it adopted out. Im a firm believer that everything happens for a reason, i have gone through a rough time of trial in which my (ex) partner got pregnant and the featous was in the felopian tube so it was a case of baby dies or both die.

On a more simple note if you dont want to get pregnant don have sex!!!!!!!

Easier said than done when its so widely accepted and practised theses days with a concent age of 16!!!!!

 

[graysparrow]

Inside the womb is ok, outside the womb is murder.
Now tell me what sense does that make?

 

[CrystalBrooke]

Inside the womb is ok, outside the womb is murder.
Now tell me what sense does that make?

it doesnt make sense. it also doesnt make sense that if a pregnant woman is killed, then the person that killed her is charged with 2 murders. abortion is wrong, you'll never convince me otherwise. rape, incest, knowing if they will be mentally ill, if they're being born into an unstable home....it's wrong in ALL cases. and i dont believe in pro-choice either...if you're pro-choice, you're pro-abortion to me.

 

[graysparrow]

Pro-choice is just a marketing term... to sell death

 

[Solomonthewise]

Its like subliminal advertising its saying "hey were all about giving you the choice and comlplete freedom over your life" but it takes the focus away from god and puts the focus on the what you want in the here and now, mainly more "freedom" to go and do more stupid things like get pregnant all over again.

its like a scam to the baddest, satans subliminal lackeys get yet another dig!!

 

[Solomonthewise]

Sorry bout that last message it makes me sound anti freedom all together!

far from it i think everyone should have the freedom to make a wide range of choices but i also believe that we should all make the right choice which is not to abort!

 

[Psalms34]

what are you guys and or girls stand on the issue of abortion
i think it is a bad thing every one deserves a chance to live

Abortion is good if the life of the Mother is in danger (emanate risk of death). Abortion is bad in every other case, including insest, yes. What is it at about (99.5+%) of abortions are just because the pregnancy is unwanted? Yet every abortion activist will try to make a case for the .01% to make and keep abortion for 100%. phewy!

 

[graysparrow]

Well I am anti-freedom to abort

 

[Ave Maria]

Abortion isn't just bad, it's right down evil!

 

[Leah]

I used to be for abortion only if the woman was raped and didn't want to be reminded of the castrophy of what happened to her. For years, I thought that when it said in the bible "Thou shalt not kill", I thought that only applied to the walking and living people! *lol* How foolish I was, eh?

About a year and a half ago, my pastor was preaching about abortion and what it does to Jesus when people make that choice. I won't go into detail, but as I was listening to him, my spirit was grieved and just wanted to cry. I realized that I was wrong to support murder in any sense, let alone a child that didn't ask to be conceived. After church service was over, I went home, immediately got on my knees and begged (I felt that bad) Jesus for His forgiveness, crying my eyes out the entire time. It broke my heart to know that I supported something so cruel and yet had the audacity to claim to be a christian. Not so anymore. Now, I'm totally against abortion and feel its wrong to even think of doing it in your mind.

 

[JunkYardDog]

I used to be for abortion only if the woman was raped and didn't want to be reminded of the castrophy of what happened to her. For years, I thought that when it said in the bible "Thou shalt not kill", I thought that only applied to the walking and living people! *lol* How foolish I was, eh?

About a year and a half ago, my pastor was preaching about abortion and what it does to Jesus when people make that choice. I won't go into detail, but as I was listening to him, my spirit was grieved and just wanted to cry. I realized that I was wrong to support murder in any sense, let alone a child that didn't ask to be conceived. After church service was over, I went home, immediately got on my knees and begged (I felt that bad) Jesus for His forgiveness, crying my eyes out the entire time. It broke my heart to know that I supported something so cruel and yet had the audacity to claim to be a christian. Not so anymore. Now, I'm totally against abortion and feel its wrong to even think of doing it in your mind.

Good for you, GA. God ALWAYS receives a broken and contrite heart. (Ps. 51)

 

[Leah]

Good for you, GA. God ALWAYS receives a broken and contrite heart. (Ps. 51)

Hehe, well I'm just thankful that He gave me that chance back then to get it right, know what I mean? He's so patient and loving.