Abortion Discussion

[Root of Jesse]

Only when it's practiced among all people with whom the person comes into contact, which is nowhere. Otherwise, there's always the chance of sexual assault, and people have the right to learn about their options ahead of time regarding birth control and STD testing/treatment.

Actually, if you keep your fly zipped until you're ready to have sex (within a lawful marriage), your rate of impregnating women will be zero. And if you keep your knees closed until you're ready to raise a family (with a husband who earns money, for example), you are guaranteed not to have unwanted children.
FWIW, I have no objections to teaching options. I object to leaving out ANY of them.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I love how the the non-believers always focus on the less than 2% sexual assault, incest, etc group but just ignore the 98% well I was too lazy to use it, it feels better without it, not "smart" enough or just really don't care group.

Really.

 

[Cearbhall]

Well, nobody's condemning anyone, are they?

Perhaps you aren't thinking of the same sort of language and gossip that the others were talking about.

And SOME parents remember to teach their children that the best way to not have unwanted children is to not have sex.

Yes, I wish it were all parents.

 

[civilwarbuff]

When people lie they are called liars......
When people steal the are called thieves.....
When people murder they are called murderers....
When people fornicate they are called _______________(fill in the blank)
And please remember this is a Christia Forum based on Biblical Principles......

 

[Root of Jesse]

Perhaps you aren't thinking of the same sort of language and gossip that the others were talking about.

Yes, I wish it were all parents.

Except that we're fallen, and everyone makes mistakes. The issue in here is what we do to push forward those mistakes, like promoting safe sex or drink responsibly...when you make a mistake, you have to pay for it. But even in those few cases where rape or sexual assault involves pregnancy, two wrongs do not make a right. The child deserves to live, though.

 

[Cearbhall]

Actually, if you keep your fly zipped until you're ready to have sex (within a lawful marriage), your rate of impregnating women will be zero. And if you keep your knees closed until you're ready to raise a family (with a husband who earns money, for example), you are guaranteed not to have unwanted children.

Ok, but I said sexual assault...you can abstain all you want, but that doesn't keep other people from deciding to attack you.

When people fornicate they are called _______________(fill in the blank)
And please remember this is a Christia Forum based on Biblical Principles......

This is one of the most self-defeating posts I've ever read on here. Is this a joke?

 

[civilwarbuff]

I should have added that there are consequences for your actions but I thought that was self evident......sorry.

 

[Desk trauma]

There is no doubt that there's no perfect system, except for God's. But isn't it telling that you want to remedy people's imperfection with more imperfection?

I don't see how using more effective solutions as imperfect.

Not at all. But I guess you don't have a problem with schools teaching about Islam.

If it's a history or comparative religion class I take no issue with teaching about any religion but a school pushing Islam is just as much a violation as it pushing Christianity.

And I guess you know, too, that Jane Doe has repented of her part of Roe v. Wade (note there's no 's'...)

I am aware of that but it has no bearing on the law or the case anymore then if the plaintiffs from Brown Vs. Board of education had latter come to be segregationist black nationalists.

 

[Cearbhall]

I should have added that there are consequences for your actions but I thought that was self evident......sorry.

Assuming you're talking to me, yes, the options are having to take Plan B, getting an abortion, or going through pregnancy and childbirth. Where have I denied this?

 

[SteveB28]

When sex education consists of showing children how to put a condom on a banana, and declaring that abortifacient birth control pills are the way to safe sex, and ignoring that the best birth control possible is to keep his pants on and her knees closed, I don't call it education, at all. Disprove that.

Oh, you can quite easily disprove it for yourself. Just study the numbers obtained from the results of programs focusing on 'abstinence only', with regards to teen pregnancy rates, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. The findings are quite clear.

 

[SteveB28]

You must belong to Mensa......

Have done for the past 42 years. You must be psychic. Well done.

 

[SteveB28]

My colleague CivilWarBuff might actually agree with you about Papal encyclicals. But one by Paul VI was, in FACT, downright prophetic. You should read Humanae Vitae.
As for Abstinence Only, why wouldn't you want to teach the truth, right up front? Condoms fail, pills fail, IUD's fail, all contraception has a failure rate. Abstinance's only weakness is that of you, personally. You don't have to rely on some Quality Control person to determine a product's success, you only have to build your own character and will. If you're willing to discipline yourself to work out four hours a day to be good in your sport or dance or karate or music, why would you not be willing to be disciplined in other areas of your life? The above is the outline for lesson 1. Lessons 2- whatever can be about how an egg gets fertilized, and what happens during gestation, at what point the brain begins working, etc. There would also be room for lessons about what to do if your discipline fails. Including carrying the baby to term and placing him/her for adoption.
I am the product of someone's failure of discipline, Steve. My adoptive parents also chose to adopt another product of someone's failure of discipline. I don't know if my birth mother succeeded in life or not, but she succeeded, in God's eyes.

The point being that all of those birth control methods have measurably greater levels of efficacy than your preferred strategy of just "saying no"!

So, I repeat my original statement. That it has been you lot who have constantly stood in the way of effective sex education programs being made available to young people. Your intransigence has contributed to the very issue that you rail about so feverishly; viz, the number of abortions performed each year. Research shows conclusively that one of the primary strategies for reducing that rate is access to effective sex education programs!

 

[Root of Jesse]

Ok, but I said sexual assault...you can abstain all you want, but that doesn't keep other people from deciding to attack you.

This is one of the most self-defeating posts I've ever read on here. Is this a joke?

Playing to the one percent, I see.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The point being that all of those birth control methods have measurably greater levels of efficacy than your preferred strategy of just "saying no"!

What can be greater than 100%? If you use abstinence, it works. If you use condoms, they fail at times.

So, I repeat my original statement. That it has been you lot who have constantly stood in the way of effective sex education programs being made available to young people. Your intransigence has contributed to the very issue that you rail about so feverishly; viz, the number of abortions performed each year. Research shows conclusively that one of the primary strategies for reducing that rate is access to effective sex education programs!

We've stood in the way so well that it's mis-taught in all our public schools. It's worked very well, hasn't it?

 

[Cearbhall]

But I guess you don't have a problem with schools teaching about Islam.

I don't. Are you saying you do?

When sex education consists of showing children how to put a condom on a banana, and declaring that abortifacient birth control pills are the way to safe sex, and ignoring that the best birth control possible is to keep his pants on and her knees closed, I don't call it education, at all. Disprove that.

Do you have evidence that there's a sex ed curriculum which fails to mention that "The only 100% guaranteed method of preventing pregnancy and STDs is abstinence"? It's practically a mantra. It's drilled into my brain.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Assuming you're talking to me, yes, the options are having to take Plan B, getting an abortion, or going through pregnancy and childbirth. Where have I denied this?

Not talking about those consequences.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Oh, you can quite easily disprove it for yourself. Just study the numbers obtained from the results of programs focusing on 'abstinence only', with regards to teen pregnancy rates, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. The findings are quite clear.

Since you seem to be an expert why don't you cite them for us?

 

[Cearbhall]

Playing to the one percent, I see.

Eh? If only the risk of sexual assault over one's lifetime in the U.S. were that low. No, it's much higher, which is why I feel that reproductive options and knowledge of STD testing should be part of everyone's school curriculum, even for individuals who plan to join the convent. We make sure that students know how to flag down an adult for help, cross the street, get out of a burning house, and so many other things. It's just part of life. It's not politicized in my mind.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Have done for the past 42 years. You must be psychic. Well done.

Of course, you wouldn't mind giving proof of that, right?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Eh? If only the risk of sexual assault over one's lifetime in the U.S. were that low. No, it's much higher, which is why I feel that reproductive options and knowledge of STD testing should be part of everyone's school curriculum, even for individuals who plan to join the convent. We make sure that students know how to flag down an adult for help, cross the street, get out of a burning house, and so many other things. It's just part of life. It's not politicized in my mind.

Want to cite the info.......