Abortion Discussion

[Cearbhall]

Not talking about those consequences.....

Ok. Would you like to say what you are talking about?

What can be greater than 100%? If you use abstinence, it works. If you use condoms, they fail at times.
We've stood in the way so well that it's mis-taught in all our public schools. It's worked very well, hasn't it?

You're misconstruing the 100% success rate of abstinence as a 100% success rate among students who have been taught abstinence-only. Students who were taught abstinence-only are just as likely, if not more likely, to have sex. And when they do, it's less likely to be safe sex.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Ok. Would you like to say what you are talking about?

Go back and re-read the post now.....I think you will figure it out......

 

[Root of Jesse]

I don't. Are you saying you do?

If they exclude Christianity, indeed, I do.

Do you have evidence that there's a sex ed curriculum which fails to mention that "The only 100% guaranteed method of preventing pregnancy and STDs is abstinence"? It's practically a mantra. It's drilled into my brain.

No wonder it works so well. Telling people that without explaining it isn't the right way to do it.

 

[Cearbhall]

Want to cite the info.......

Sure.

The most comprehensive and reputable source is most likely the CDC's National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. I've included the executive summary along with an overview of the methodology and a copy of the results in the form of an infographic.

The CDC's 1991-2011 High School Youth Risk Behavior Survey found that 11.8% of girls and 4.5% of boys had already been forced to have sexual intercourse. I've attached a CDC fact sheet which includes this and other statistics.

This study was done in an urban trauma center and found a lifetime prevalence of 39%.

I'd be happy to find more sources upon request.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Sure.

The most comprehensive and reputable source is most likely the CDC's National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. I've included the executive summary along with an overview of the methodology and a copy of the results in the form of an infographic.

The CDC's 1991-2011 High School Youth Risk Behavior Survey found that 11.8% of girls and 4.5% of boys had already been forced to have sexual intercourse. I've attached a CDC fact sheet which includes this and other statistics.

This study was done in an urban trauma center and found a lifetime prevalence of 39%.

I'd be happy to find more sources upon request.

Nope, CDC is topflight....I quote them myself.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

Nope, CDC is topflight....I quote them myself.....

I will have to take my statement back in this case. I made it before I looked at your postings.
The study you are citing is simply a power point for public consumption. 1st problem the methodolgy....random phone calls with no way to verify who you are talking to or if this person in reality has experienced this. Where is the info from ER's, police reports and social services which should be at the forefront, those are the people who should be interviewed. 2nd

The CDC's 1991-2011 High School Youth Risk Behavior Survey found that 11.8% of girls and 4.5% of boys had already been forced to have sexual intercourse. I've attached a CDC fact sheet which includes this and other statistics.

The citation for that, when I clicked it, came up "Server not found". So I will stop here....

 

[jayem]

We've stood in the way so well that it's mis-taught in all our public schools. It's worked very well, hasn't it?

Something has worked. As of 2012 data, the rate of teen-age pregnancy has steadily declined since the early 90s. And along with the decline in pregnancy, there's been a decline in birth rates and abortion rates. If comprehensive sex-ed is part of this, then what's the problem?

Here's an article from Pew Research on the same topic. It notes the economy may be part of the reason, but it also credits "less sex, more contraception, and more information." Those are good things, aren't they?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/04/21/why-is-the-teen-birth-rate-falling/

 

[SteveB28]

Of course, you wouldn't mind giving proof of that, right?

I have no intention of identifying myself on this site, but if it fascinates you so much, I suggest you contact Mensa Australia (Canberra registrations) and enquire about the membership. You already have my age. That should assist

 

[SteveB28]

Since you seem to be an expert why don't you cite them for us?

Not an expert, which is why you could find the data for yourself in about 30 seconds, if you cared to expend the energy!

But here you go....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22022362/

Just the abstract should suffice.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Not an expert, which is why you could find the data for yourself in about 30 seconds, if you cared to expend the energy!

But here you go....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22022362/

Just the abstract should suffice.

Well, it is customary if one makes a statement that one provides the support for it and not expect other people to do their research for them; you have been here long enough to know that.

 

[KCfromNC]

When sex education consists of showing children how to put a condom on a banana, and declaring that abortifacient birth control pills are the way to safe sex, and ignoring that the best birth control possible is to keep his pants on and her knees closed, I don't call it education, at all. Disprove that.

Disprove what? The fact that you're viewing "education" to mean "conservative Catholic brainwashing"? That's a pretty obvious conclusion. I'm not sure what we're supposed to do with that fact, other than realize that playing word games doesn't change the fact that comprehensive sex education is highly correlated with lower rates of teen pregnancy and STDs.

 

[KCfromNC]

You'd think wrong. Sex has a dual purpose, as God designed it. Pleasure AND procreation. To have one without the other is subverting the will of God.

Feel free to believe that, but realize that it is just one random opinion out of many.

Bad public policy is promoting abortion and birth control as the first step. Neither is the first step. Teaching why sex should wait until marriage is the first step. A later, much later, chapter should be what to do if things don't work, and your discipline fails.

Do you have any research showing how effective this is compared to comprehensive sex education?

 

[KCfromNC]

I'd say the sexually active women shamed themselves, causing the derogatory commentary...

And people said I was making up the "punish those dirty women for having sex" motivation of certain anti-abortion activists.

 

[KCfromNC]

There's no such thing as "abstinence only" curriculum in public schools.

That's simply not true : http://www.siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.ViewPage&PageID=1158

 

[Root of Jesse]

Eh? If only the risk of sexual assault over one's lifetime in the U.S. were that low. No, it's much higher, which is why I feel that reproductive options and knowledge of STD testing should be part of everyone's school curriculum, even for individuals who plan to join the convent. We make sure that students know how to flag down an adult for help, cross the street, get out of a burning house, and so many other things. It's just part of life. It's not politicized in my mind.

The risk of sexual assault is not where the 1% comes in, it is in the percentage of sexual assaults and rapes that actually have pregnancies resulting. Let's face it, most abortions are for those women or couples who either a)don't want more children or b) have failed birth control plans.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Ok. Would you like to say what you are talking about?

You're misconstruing the 100% success rate of abstinence as a 100% success rate among students who have been taught abstinence-only. Students who were taught abstinence-only are just as likely, if not more likely, to have sex. And when they do, it's less likely to be safe sex.

I'm telling you that, if you don't do something, the success rate of not doing it is 100%. But really, what on earth is 100%? Even the best in the NBA make about 60% of their shots. The point is that sex education does not get the point across of not having sex until you're ready for children. Why? Because it goes at it wrong. It's like sticking a cookie on a plate in front of a child and saying "don't eat it." What you can do is explain why it's wrong at this time, why it's right at another time, and why it's right and wrong.
All of us sin. My gripe is this: Why should someone who admittedly sins (has sex when they do not want a child) and causes a consequence (getting pregnant) get away with murder? I sympathize with those victims of sexual abuse and rape that get pregnant. Were they to seek an abortion, I would rather they don't but can understand. But the vast majority of abortions are not those people.
I examine my conscience every day and try to find ways to be a better person. Lots of people don't even think about what they're doing when they have sex and cause a pregnancy, then they want to just suck it out. Why not try to live a moral life, in general, without all the excess consumption of food, alcohol, drugs and sex? All of them are such short term pleasures. I, personally, would choose eternal happiness over a minute or so of sexual pleasure.

 

[Root of Jesse]

And people said I was making up the "punish those dirty women for having sex" motivation of certain anti-abortion activists.

Punish? Where did I use that word? Besides, most sin is self-caused, not caused by someone else. I just think that someone who is involved in initiating a pregnancy should at least carry it to full term.

 

[Root of Jesse]

So they DON'T teach condom and pill use? Good for them! But I doubt it.

That's simply not true : http://www.siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.ViewPage&PageID=1158

 

[Root of Jesse]

Disprove what? The fact that you're viewing "education" to mean "conservative Catholic brainwashing"? That's a pretty obvious conclusion. I'm not sure what we're supposed to do with that fact, other than realize that playing word games doesn't change the fact that comprehensive sex education is highly correlated with lower rates of teen pregnancy and STDs.

What's so 'conservative' about telling people it's ok to have sex, drink alcohol, and eat, as long as you do them at the right place, right time, right circumstances? I mean, we do have LAWS that say that children can't drink (whether they're enforced or not), why should we promote unfettered sex?

 

[Root of Jesse]

And people said I was making up the "punish those dirty women for having sex" motivation of certain anti-abortion activists.

Some abortion activists stand outside an abortion clinic and make those going inside feel worse than they may already feel. I don't advocate that position, at all. But just as sex education shouldn't start with condom and BC information, abortion counseling should start by offering a way for the woman to have the child, and then give it up for adoption. Otherwise, we're back to pre-Christian Rome.