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Abomination of desolation

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Rafael, Jun 26, 2003.

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  1. jayswife29

    jayswife29 Member

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    Very good, cbk. Now that the matter of sin is taken care of, BASED ON SCRIPTURE, what was the original question?!!
     
  2. jayswife29

    jayswife29 Member

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    Oh, yeah, something about the abomination of desolation. Umm, seems like it will be the anti-christ, seems like he will blaspheme God, seems like he will stop worship/sacrifice in the re-built temple and proclaim to be the Messiah, seems like he will kindly ask the world to follow him or die, seems like he will give everyone a nice new image to worship, and oh, yeah, lets not forget an invitation to HELL. There's my two cents.
     
  3. cbk

    cbk Guest

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    I don't follow you.

    Is there:

    1) A known answer out there that we need an UNknown question for?

    2) A known question out there that we need the UNknown answer to? And, if so, which question are you talking about??? (I've seen sooooo many)

    Or 3) An UNKNOWN question that we have an UNKNOWN answer for???


    Now, I have no clue on how to address #3!!! :wave:
     
  4. cbk

    cbk Guest

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    Sounds good, except for one thing. I thought his invitation was to HEAVEN!!! ;)
     
  5. jayswife29

    jayswife29 Member

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    well I guess the anti-christs invitation wouldnt be to heaven, and as for your question above, I too am lost. I just didnt know where all that talk about sin was going. Thats all.
     
  6. cbk

    cbk Guest

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    Come on, bones..... I meant that his invitation promises Heaven, but, it is a lie. In reality, he is sending you to hell. :D
     
  7. jayswife29

    jayswife29 Member

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    bones?.....
     
  8. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Jayswife,

    The bit about sin came from a post ages ago where PC said, among many other things, this:

    Justme, you must open your eyes, the seventh trumpet in Rev 11 occurs at the FIRST RESURRECTION AT THE TIME OF THE END, that is not back in 70AD.

    So I showed when the end of the ages was using Hebrews 9:26. Sin came along for the ride.

    That old abomination that causes desolation has to appear in the holy place. The holy place is kapoot, ghandi. The holy place is kapoot since Titus destroyed it. Now Jesus sits in the most hol;y place and any abomination can't go there...

    raphe made this statement to start the thread...

    In my opinion, the Dome of the Rock is the abomination of desolation, Mohammed is the false prophet and Islam is the beast that brings on Armageddon.

    So all we have to do is get that Dome of the Rock up to Heaven where the holy place now is...

    It is ever so clear now isn't it?????
    Justme
     
  9. jayswife29

    jayswife29 Member

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    Very, and thanks. I have never looked at it quite that way before, and I dont think I ever will again.!!Maybe we should try bringing Heaven to the dome.
     
  10. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Jaywife 29

    Greetings Jaywife29.
    I agree with you 100% .

    I wish I could have put it as well and with as few words.
    Maranatha.
    PC.
    :clap:
     
  11. cbk

    cbk Guest

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    Isn't it possible that the Dome of the Rock was built originally as a Jewish Holy site, with its rich symbolism of the Jewish religion? And that when the Kalif was defeated, shortly after its completion, the new Muslims who took control of Jerusalem QUICKLY converted it into one of their sites, as they were accustomed to doing? And, in doing so, the Muslims erased all written evidences, as I believe they were accustomed to doing?

    Many events happened between 600AD and 1400AD in the pages of history that we are unaware of.
     
  12. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Prophecy Countdown,

    Here's some more for you.

    From your post;

    Justme quote.
    I can't find it in this horde of posts, but I am sure you said that the gospel has not been preached all over wherever in biblical times.

    My reply.
    No it was not, and still has not been achieved. The Bible society and Independent ministries and others are working on it, with the help of volunteers and the holy Spirit’s great power.
    ******************
    Is there any reason the Holy Spirit couldn't be helping in Paul's time?

    However, Matthew 24

    Jesus was asked:

    "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

    Jesus answers:
    14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    Colossians 1

    23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

    The end of the age occurs in the same generation as the parousia and the great tribulation or in fact that first resurrection you talk about. Actually the great white throne judgment, too, if we want to be picky.

    As you remember Hebrews 9:26, add to that Matthew 10:23.

    So here again we have the bible saying that the gospel was preached to every creature under heaven and Prophecy Countdown saying this:
    No it was not,

    Comments?

    Then we return to the rebuilt temple. Now that we have determined the 'end of the ages' which was somewhere around the time of the sacrifice on the cross, that was at the time of the first resurrection which was at the time of the parousia, how did the rebuilt temple make out? The rebuilt temple that has to provide the holy place for the abomination that causes desolation to appear in, because as you said:
    **********************
    Justme, you pulled my above statement from a previous post but did not include the following which were included right there with it, they proved that “the time of the end” concerns the SECOND COMING and FIRST resurrection IS AT TRUMPET 7.
    Why didn’t you at least read and consider them?
    ***************
    I read them and knew they were biblically wrong.

    Justme
     
  13. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Greetings, my fellow Peers.

    Justme’s quote to Jaywife 29..
    Hi Jayswife,
    The bit about sin came from a post ages ago where PC said, among many other things, this:
    Justme, you must open your eyes, the seventh trumpet in Rev 11 occurs at the FIRST RESURRECTION AT THE TIME OF THE END, that is not back in 70AD.
    “So I showed when the end of the ages was using Hebrews 9:26. Sin came along for the ride.”


    PC says. Let me deal with the end of the age again, as I have done twice before.

    Hebrews 9: 24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
    Jesus never entered into the man made Earthly Temple to plead our case. That HE will do in Heaven as the Lamb of God.

    There would be no point doing that in the earthly Temple.

    The reason for this is answered in the next verse.

    Hebrews 9: 25.Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

    The Earthly was a shadow of the heavenly, what else could it be but a type?
    Under the inadequacies of the Earthly Temple, lay the problem.
    Hebrews 9: 26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. the holy place every year with blood of others.


    The Earthly Temple? Jesus entered it as a wonderful teacher. Luke 4:16-19. Fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah.
    The writer states that Christ died once and for ALL sinners.

    I will deal with “the end of the world.”
    Did the unknown writer of Hebrews like all those that followed Jesus think that He would set up HIS kingdom back then? Check it out and see at the beginning of Math 24 Mark13, Luke21.
    They are eager to know, THE WHEN TIME of His 2nd coming & kingdom.
    They thought it would be closer than we now know, because 2000 years later we see it with hindsight that we are STILL WAITING.

    Here is my evidence straight from the BOOK as to why they thought they were living in the time of the end of the age.

    2 Peter 3: 9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    2 Peter 3: 10. But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with A GREAT NOISE, and the ELEMENTS SHALL MELT with fervent HEAT, the EARTH ALSO and the works that are therein shall be BURNED UP.

    2 Peter 3: 11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner ought ye to be in holy conversation and godliness,

    2 Peter 3: 12. LOOKING FOR and HASTING unto the COMING OF THE DAY OF GOD, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    2 Peter 3: 13. Nevertheless WE, according to his promise, LOOK FOR NEW HEAVENS and a NEW EARTH, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    2 Peter 3: 14. WHEREFORE BELOVED, seeing that YE LOOK FOR SUCH THINGS, be DILEGENT that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

    Now the above verses show how enthusiastically they all looked for the coming kingdom, they were LOOKING UP in the HEAVENS for the Signs of HIS coming back then that is why they thought “IT WAS THE END OF THE AGE.”
    That was the question asked in Mat 24:3.
    “Tell us, when shall these things be? and what the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

    Did the above writer, with the Disciples believe that Christ was to set up His kingdom within their lifetimes? Of course they did.

    Now how should we read the very next verse of Hebrews?

    Hebrews 9: 27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
    Hebrews 9:28. SO CHRIST WAS ONCE OFFERED to BEAR the SINS of many; and UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM SHALL HE APPEAR THE SECOND TIME WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

    Every generation has hoped for the blessed salvation within their own time, as we do today so the writer would express himself in that way with that preconceived idea and obviously so would Paul as believing that the “end of the age” was at their time.

    Was there anything wrong in that? No.

    Were they right about the TIME, “end of the age”? No.
    Because we are still here waiting for the prophecies to be fully completed some 2000 years later.

    Yes, some 2000 years later indicates clearly that it was not the INTENT of what Jesus had indicated in prophecy that it was to be the end of the age back then.

    Some folk say, “yes but that’s what the Bible says!!
    And I say yes it does.
    Well, they say , “how can it be wrong?
    So I say. Well,, it was the writer that had the time problem.
    It was the writers YEARNING that they ALL had for the second coming to COME ABOUT within their lifetime, it was their hope and prayer for it to be that way.

    Is this a salvation issue? No of course not.

    They were right about the event but wrong about the time, because the prophecies were not fulfilled in their time to full.

    God did not see fit to tell them back then, the time.
    That is why Daniel’s book was sealed up until “the time of the end”? So that we won’t know, until we need to.
    It was God in His wisdom that did not let even Daniel know, that it was not to be for a long, long time into the future.
    Daniel asked Gabriel When?
    And Gabriel said “it is not for you to know Daniel.”

    Another example, using Hebrews is how some can read it as a hard and fast rule, or we can use our God given common sense to get to the intent.
    Hebrews 9:27.And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:
    Is that what the Bible says? Yes.
    Is the above a hard and fast rule? No.

    The above verse says it is APPOINTED for man to die once and we have many that state, that on that bases Moses cannot be one of the two witnesses.
    How then do they explain Lazarus. You see it is how we read the Gospel that is the problem, not what it says.
    Of course it was “appointed unto men, once to die,” but that is not a hard and fast rule there are exceptions.
    There is no contradiction, between being appointed that man die once and for God to act upon that situation, after all HE is the resurrection unto life.

    Now, I do hope that that is the end of the matter regards Hebrews 9, I have given my answer and that is the end of it as far as I am concerned.

    Justme quote.
    That old abomination that causes desolation has to appear in the holy place. The holy place is kapoot, ghandi. The holy place is kapoot since Titus destroyed it. Now Jesus sits in the most hol;y place and any abomination can't go there...


    We must first find the Holy place where the abomination can sit.
    Now It is correct that the abomination cannot sit in the Heavenly sanctuary.
    So where are we to look, seeing as the earthly Temple was destroyed in 70AD
    Then we have to identify who it is who wants to sit there, once we do that we can identify who the Abomination that causes the desolation is.

    What Holy place, is there on Earth?
    Bible. Hebrews 9:25.
    “Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the HOLY PLACE every year with blood of others.”

    So the only place left is the HOLY HILL. Because as Justme says the Temple is “Kapoot” which I think means kaput.

    Bible.
    Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

    So this person in the last verse is going to “plant his tabernacle,” “between the seas in the glorious holy mountain.” So the Lamb that speaks like a dragon is going to build his Tabernacle “in the glorious holy mountain.”
    Satan needs it, to sit in it, he says “I will be like the Most High.

    Now the next question is, at what TIME will he do it? And what will happen when he does?
    THE BIBLE'S VERY NEXT VERSE TELLS US.

    Dan12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall MICHAEL STAND UP, the GREAT PRINCE which STANDETH for the CHILDREN of THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, every one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    So he will do it at “the time of the end” spoken of in Daniel. That is just before the first resurrection at trumpet number 7.
    The next question, is how long will he get away with it?

    Daniel is given the answer.

    Daniel 12:11. And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    So the answer is, about 3 ½ years. See, Dan 12:5-7.
    For how long things shall be allowed to go on for untill the end.

    When the last angel's trumpet sounds then the mystery of God will be understood. See, Rev 10:6-7.

    Justme re quoted me then explains what he or she did.
    Justme, you must open your eyes, the seventh trumpet in Rev 11 occurs at the FIRST RESURRECTION AT THE TIME OF THE END, that is not back in 70AD.
    “So I showed when the end of the ages was using Hebrews 9:26. Sin came along for the ride.”

    Even though I have dealt with Hebrews 9:26 earlier I will do so again.

    We still have the seventh trumpet, which is STILL a real problem for Justme.

    The Bible makes it absolutely clear, that the seventh trumpet occurs at the ”time of the end” at the FIRST RESURRECTION.
     
  14. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    1st Corinthians 15:52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    The last trump is trumpet number seven, there aren’t any more than seven.

    Justme claims that Rev 11 has been fulfilled. yet we are told, that AT THE LAST TRUMP THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE RAISED.
    The two witnesses ARE RAISED at the last trump of God.
    Of course that must include all those that are in the earth as well and all that are alive and waiting.

    Rev 11:11. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    12And they HEARD A GREAT VOICE FROM HEAVEN saying unto them, COME UP HITHER.
    And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15And the SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME of our LORD, and of his CHRIST; and HE SHALL REIGN for ever and EVER.


    Now that is not Prophecy Countdown saying it, it is what the Bible says.

    Now for the identification of the, abomination that sits where he ought not.

    Isaiah 14: 10. How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which DIDST WEAKEN THE NATIONS! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL SIT also UPON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, in the SIDES OF THE NORTH:

    Where are the sides of the North?

    Psalms 48:1.Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in THE MOUNTAIN OF HIS HOLYNESS. 2Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is MOUNT ZION, on the SIDES OF THE NORTH, the CITY OF THE GREAT KING.

    I have always said check me out with the Book and I ask does what I say make sense?
    I have never asked any person to take or follow my word for anything.
    I just want my peers to look at what the Bible says and see, if what I say makes sense, with the intent of the Bible.

    I have been called a liar by Wills and a rambler by Justme,,, well that goes with the territory.
    But the next question put by Justme to my Peers is so offensive to me it makes me sick..
    The worse thing any angel or mere mortal can do is have others offer praise or adulation to them or follow their words instead of God’s.
    Angels don’t abide by it and neither do I.
    I am like my Peers, a simple servant of our Lord and I give ALL honour to HIM.
    So the implication of this stated question is distressing to me and would be an offence that I would never commit.
    Justme quote.
    Also, I said that Jesus did not do away with sin at His first advent but paid the price of sin as the second Adam.

    Justme quote.
    PC says He didn't even do away with sin.
    What are you going to believe, the word of God or the word of Prophecy countdown?

    This is the Bibles answer that I use to verify the things I said about sin being “swallowed up” and is no more. If we are in the law having being written in our hearts and minds sin is finished.
    1 Corinthians 15:54. So WHEN this CORRUPTIBLE shall have put on INCORUPTABLE, and this MORTAL shall have put on IMMORTALITY, THEN shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH is SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 THE STING OF DEATH IS SIN; and THE STRENGTH OF SIN is THE LAW. 57But thanks be to God, which GIVETH US VICTORY through our LORD Jesus Christ.
    58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

    Maranatha.
    Prophecy countdown.
     
  15. Wills

    Wills Member

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    Moses is not a Christian. He cannot accept Jesus hence cannot come back.

    Elijah is not a Christian. He cannot witness to people who KNOW THE NEW TESTAMENT

    better than him. He as a Jew, cannot understand Revelations, hence cannot witness

    the Word of Christ.

    Moses cannot read the Book of Revelation since He knows only Leviticus, Numbers etc

    They are not and will not be with us.

    Elijah Enoch, Moses cannot read the New Testament and cannot lead as witnesses.
     
  16. cbk

    cbk Guest

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    No offense, but I believe Moses and Elijah know more about true Christianity than all of us put together!

    Mark 9:4 "And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking to Jesus." !!!!

    Mark 9:12-13 Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores ALL things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected? But I tell you, Elijah HAS come, and they HAVE DONE to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

    Matthew 11:14 (In reference to John the Baptist) "An if you are WILLING TO ACCEPT IT, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear."

    Elijah and Moses appeared to and talked to Jesus. Far more than I can say for myself. So, why could these two not be qualified to do the will of God in any way God chooses??
     
  17. Wills

    Wills Member

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    You did not understand the statement.

    They lived under Mosaic law, and did not accept Christ while under that law. You refer to a vision and I refer you back to their lives in the OT.

    It is their OT lives , that they would lead as jews, similar to the Jewish
    Rabbis of today.
    The Rabbis today are not Christians and are under the Mosaic law.
    Read the SCRIPTURES ..Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus etc. Moses and Elijah lived under temple sin offering times and their real Old testament lives as will be seen, cannot comprehend or place Christ over the Mosaic law.
    Your point is erroneous, today's Jewish rabbis are not Christians, why do you expect Moses in a synagogue to automatically flip over?
    The facts today are clear. Jew synagogues have no New testament worship. Are they (Moses, Elijah..) not Jews who have identical faith to the VERY JEWS who live the Mosaic Law today? That is mutually exclusive.
    The evidence of Jew synagogue faith (Non Christ) today does not support

    You may have misread my views. Kindly read again.
     
  18. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Wills,

    You're right. I never thought of it before because I don't care i guess, but you're right.

    Justme
     
  19. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Greetings CBK.
    Thank you, that was truth well said.

    You say more. with a few well chosen words than I say with a hundred.

    Maranatha,

    PC.
     
  20. Atkin

    Atkin Member

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    I agree with the original post. Yours is unsupported.
    Without reasons you cannot support your agreement. Support
    your post by analysing the Jew synagogue scenario, that is fact based
    on reality of today.

    Back your post up with our current times, for Moses will live in our day.
     
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