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Abomination of desolation

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Rafael, Jun 26, 2003.

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  1. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    So Atkin, you agree with the original post?

    Yet, when I do the same thing as you, you demand I "back it up?"
    How about you back up why you "agree with the original post."

    Yes, I can support the arguement very easily with the Bible!
    Not only for the return of Moses, but for Elijah’s return as well.
    However I agreed with cbk because he used the BIBLE. He did excellent work for truth.

    last time I used the Bible against your theories Atkin, you had nothing to say biblically, so you became rude.

    So like Paul I dust myself off and move on from folk like you.

    So the answer is NO! to you Atkin.
     
  2. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Wills, astoundng quotes.
    Moses is not a Christian. He cannot accept Jesus hence cannot come back.
    ===================
    My reply.
    Then what were they both doing at the transfiguration if “they can’t come back?"
    ===================
    Wills quote.
    Elijah is not a Christian. He cannot witness to people who KNOW THE NEW TESTAMENT better than him. He as a Jew, cannot understand Revelations, hence cannot witness the Word of Christ.
    ===================

    My reply. 98% of Revelation is from the rest of the Bible, much of it from the OT.
    Jesus gave us and through the angels Palimini and Gabriel prophecy.
    The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. See Rev 19:10. Elijah and Moses were with the angels and Jesus and therefore they would have first hand information, so cbk, is dead to right on that issue
    ===================

    Moses cannot read the Book of Revelation since He knows only Leviticus, Numbers etc
    ===================
    My reply.
    Yes the can better than us because they have the author right there , so cbk is dead to right again.
    ===================
    They are not and will not be with us.
    Elijah Enoch, Moses cannot read the New Testament and cannot lead as witnesses.
    ===================
    They have the author of the Bible with them and therefore can understand the New Testament.
    That is what Jesus did on Earth He is the Teacher.
    ===================

    Again well done cbk.
     
  3. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Prophecy,

    So the main thrust of your post is to tell me that the apostles were mistaken.
    The other thing is apparently you actually do know what the bible actually says, but you have another translation.

    From your post:
    Some folk say, “yes but that’s what the Bible says!!
    And I say yes it does.
    Well, they say , “how can it be wrong?
    So I say. Well,, it was the writer that had the time problem.
    It was the writers YEARNING that they ALL had for the second coming to come about in their time it was their hope and prayer for it to be that way.
    ***************
    News flash!!!!!!!

    It is Prophecy Countdown's YEARNING for the events we've discussed to come about in his lifetime that has him locked in a mindset where he can't see the forest for the trees. (bible truth for the false religious doctrine)

    You felt you were dealt with unfairly here:well, somewhere, these things are so long I have to call in help just to scroll thru it, to read it and sort it out takes epochs.

    Anyway people look in post 99, this is the post that he is crying about. I don't see a problem at all.Something about this:

    Justme quote.
    Also, I said that Jesus did not do away with sin at His first advent but paid the price of sin as the second Adam.

    Justme quote.
    PC says He didn't even do away with sin.
    ******************

    From somewhere:
    Now we still have the seventh trumpet, which is STILL a real problem for Justme.
    The Bible makes it absolutely clear, that the seventh trumpet occurs at the ”time of the end” at the FIRST RESURRECTION.
    *****************
    Why would this be a problem for me?

    From somewhere else in your post:
    Now that is not Prophecy Countdown saying it, it is what the Bible says.
    ***********************
    I don't gots no problem with what the bible says: my problem is with what you say.

    You danced nicely around Hebrews 9:26, saying nothing. What you did say is directly opposite of the word of God. However, you didn't quite come to grips with when is the END OF THE AGES?

    This ain't rocket surgery, you'll get it.

    Hebrews 9:26
    Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

    The END OF THE AGES is when Jesus appeared to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself. That was a bit over 1900 years ago. It doesn't matter if a Jew wanted Jesus to rule in Jerusalem or if your interpretation of Daniel doesn't fit or if you would like the END OF THE AGES to be tommorrow, the word of God says ..Hebrews 9:26.

    I have also gave you other verses which agree with that.

    Here's a good argument you have with yourself:

    Jesus never entered into the man made Earthly Temple to plead our case. That HE will do in Heaven as the Lamb of God.
    ****************
    Okay.
    THEN:
    There would be no point doing that in the earthly Temple.
    *****************

    Nope, I don't think so either.

    THEN:
    The reason for this is answered in the next verse.

    Hebrews 9: 25.Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
    **************************
    Yes, that earthly temple, with the HOLY PLACE that the priest entered was pretty Mickey Mouse compared to the one Jesus is in now, why the one He is now was not made by human hands, sounds perfect and very special.

    The Earthly was a shadow of the heavenly, what else could it be but a type?

    Well, one of the things it could be was the symbolic headquarters of those who opposed Jesus Christ. It could be the temple that had a HOLY PLACE that an abomination that causes desolation could appear in which the people of Judea could SEE, and understand it was time to flee the great tribulation.The earthly temple could be that because the bible says the abomination would appear in the HOLY PLACE and there was a HOLY PLACE in that temple. However, that abomination would have to do his appearing before said HOLY PLACE was destroyed.

    THEN
    Under the inadequacies of the Earthly Temple, lay the problem.
    *******************
    Hebrews 9: 26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. the holy place every year with blood of others.
    ****************************
    That's what I figure.

    THEN:

    The Earthly Temple? Jesus entered it as a wonderful teacher. Luke 4:16-19. Fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah.

    Well, Jesus actually fullfilled ALL the prophecies about Him.

    Luke 21
    22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
    THEN, my personal favorite:
    The writer states that Christ died once and for ALL sinners.

    Have you been reading Awake or Watchtower? That is how the WTBTS handles that verse.

    However, once again the 'writer' does not state that.

    27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

    That's too basic, just read it.

    So does your statement that Jesus died for sinners mean that sin was done away with?

    I read this about your 'holy hill'. So where is the verses that tell me to watch out for the devil sitting on a holy hill? I got to hand it to you, you're inventive, not very convincing, but inventive.

    Thanks for your reply, I quire enjoy this.

    Justme
     
  4. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Greetings, to Peers, that are looking FORWARD TO HIS SOON RETURN!!!

    To you ONLY do I apologies for repeating a few things but Justme is going around in circles rehashing and rambling on old issues that have been dealt with.

    So, what I will do is insert her remarks with those of the Bible. I will repeat her statements several times HIGHLIGHTING with capitals for EMPHASIS only, so that true eschatological views from the Bible can be discerned over the preterist’s theories.

    After all that is what this site is about.
    This is an eschatological discussion site in favour of that very sound biblical belief.
    This is NOT an ANTI-eschatological or a historic preterist’s unsound theory site.

    So what are full on preterists doing here, if the are anti-eschatological therefore being historical in their theories, of everything being a done deal?

    eschatology | esktldi | n. M19. [f. Gk eskhatos last + -OLOGY.] The branch of theology that deals with the four last things (death, judgement, heaven, and hell) and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind; a doctrine or belief about the second coming or the kingdom of God.
    realized eschatology: see REALIZE 1.
    eschatological a. M19. eschatologically adv. in relation to eschatology E20. eschatologist n. L19. eschatologize v.t. give an eschatological character to E20.

    We are told by the board that only partial preterist views are allowed.
    Justme believes and has stated that “nothing is going to happen in the future.”

    That is a full preterist’s attitude, so what is Justme doing here on this place theorising the complete historical belief?

    Say anything futuristic, (eschatological) on this sit or disagree with preterist’s historic views and we have an indoctrinated seething religious fundamentalist on our hands, if you don’t believe me just go back a few posts and look.

    What are preterists?

    preterist | pret()rst | n. & a. M19. [f. PRETER- + -IST.] Theol. (Of or pertaining to) a person who holds that the prophecies of the Apocalypse have been already fulfilled.

    So at the very certain risk of setting them off again into a verbal tirade I will begin.

    Justme. Quote.
    So the main thrust of your post is to tell me that the apostles were mistaken.
    The other thing is apparently you actually do know what the bible actually says, but you have another translation.
    From somewhere else in your post:
    Now that is not Prophecy Countdown saying it, it is what the Bible says.
    I don't gots no problem with what the bible says: my problem is with what you say.
    You danced nicely around Hebrews 9:26, saying nothing. What you did say is directly opposite of the word of God. However, you didn't quite come to grips with when is the END OF THE AGES?This ain't rocket surgery, you'll get it.
    The END OF THE AGES is when Jesus appeared to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself. That was a bit over 1900 years ago. It doesn't matter if a Jew wanted Jesus to rule in Jerusalem or if your interpretation of Daniel doesn't fit or if you would like the END OF THE AGES to be tommorrow, the word of God says ..Hebrews 9:26.I have also gave you other verses which agree with that.
    The bit about sin came from a post ages ago where PC said, among many other things, this:

    My reply.
    It is so difficult to understand some folk clearly when they go right off the deep end.

    “I donts got no problem,”
    “This ain't rocket surgery, you'll get it.”
    “It doesn't matter if a Jew wanted Jesus to rule in Jerusalem,”
    “END OF THE AGES to be tommorrow, the word of God says”

    PC says what can help?
    Meditation, prayer or medication? LOL.

    PC re-quoted by Justme.
    Justme, you must open your eyes, the seventh trumpet in Rev 11 occurs at the FIRST RESURRECTION AT THE TIME OF THE END, that is not back in 70AD.
    “So I showed when the end of the ages was using Hebrews 9:26. Sin came along for the ride.”


    My reply
    Yes you did show me Hebrews 9: 26. But what does that have to do with the abomination or trumpet number seven being blown at the resurrection? NOTHING AT ALL!!!
    Let me deal with the end of the age again, as I have done three times before.

    Hebrews 9: 24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
    Jesus never entered into the man made Earthly Temple to plead our case.
    That, HE WILL DO IN HEAVEN, as the LAMB of God.

    He first has to be found WORTHY to regain that, that HE willingly put aside.
    What did HE regain?
    Rev 5:12. Saying with a loud voice, WORTHY IS THE LAMB that was SLAIN to RECEIVE POWER, and RICHES, and WISDOM, and STRENGTH, and HONOUR, and GLORY, and BLESSING.

    There would be no point in HIM doing anything in the earthly Temple.
    The reason for this is answered in the next verse.

    Hebrews 9: 25.Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

    The Earthly was a SHADOW of the heavenly, what else could it be but a type? Under the inadequacies of the Earthly Temple, lay the problem. Hebrews 9: 26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. the holy place every year with blood of others.


    The Earthly Temple? Jesus entered it as a wonderful “teacher,” “master,” “a speaker with authority.” Luke 4:16-19. Fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah.
    The writer states that Christ died once and for ALL sinners.

    I will now deal with “the end of the world.”
    Did the unknown writer of Hebrews like all those that followed Jesus think that Jesus would set up HIS kingdom back then?
    Check it out and see at the beginning of Math 24 Mark13, Luke21.

    They were eager to know, THE TIME “WHEN” of His 2nd coming and the end of the world in, Matt 24 KJV.
    So the question was linked to the END OF THE WORLD and SECOND ADVENT.

    Matt 24:3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, WHEN shall these things be? and what THE SIGN OF THY COMING, AND THE END OF THE WORLD?
    Rev 22:12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my REWARD IS WITH ME, to GIVE EVERY MAN ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE.

    His reward is everlasting life.

    Rev 22:14. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that THEY MAY HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, and may ENTER in through the gates into the CITY.
    Jesus made it quite clear that the reward was to come WITH HIM
    Rev 22:12. And, behold, I COME QUICKLY; AND MY REWRD is WITH ME, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    All the above is future, because the FIRST resurrection did NOT happen as Justme theorises in 70AD.

    If “Prayerful Watchers” galloped by, riding a fast horse they couldn’t miss it!
    However preterists, riding by on slow donkeys is a whole different thing!


    Back to the Disciples.
    They Disciples thought it would be closer than we now know, because 2000 years later we understand with the power of hindsight as we are STILL WAITING, that it did NOT happen.
    If it did then we might as well turn out the lights for good because for us there would be no hope in the first resurrection, at the seventh trump.

    Here is my evidence straight from the Bible as to why they thought they were living in the time of the end of the age.
    Just read the intent.

    2 Peter 3: 9. THE LORD IS NOT SLACK CONCERNING HIS PROMISE, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    They were waiting and Peter had to explain that the Lord was NOT SLACK.
     
  5. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Why do you think, Peter would even have to mention it?

    It doesn’t take an Einstein to figure it out.
    People haven’t got that much time 3 score and ten and that’s it folks, lights out! Because of that time limit we think short term, we are impatient.

    In the very next verse Peter says “THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME.”

    2 Peter 3: 10. But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with A GREAT NOISE, and the ELEMENTS SHALL MELT with fervent HEAT, the EARTH ALSO and the works that are therein shall be BURNED UP.

    Peter encourages folk to be ”holy in conversation and godliness.”
    So we keep watching and staying alert, even around 2000 years later.

    2 Peter 3: 11. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner ought ye to be in holy conversation and godliness,

    I have heard preterists say regarding the heavenly signs in the following verse, and in Math24 Mark12 and Luke 21, “that it is all allegorical.”
    They have to say that because it is impossible for them to explain the fact that, IT DID NOT HAPPEN IN 70AD.
    Why are preterists so numbingly unenlightened biblically?
    Because they are indoctrinated.

    Hasting means a hurrying, bringing closer, “the COMING OF THE DAY of GOD.”


    2 Peter 3: 12. LOOKING FOR and HASTING unto the COMING OF THE DAY OF GOD, wherein THE HEAVENS being on FIRE shall be DISSOLVED and the ELEMENTS shall MELT with FERVENT HEAT?

    Peter states CLEARLY is LOOKING “for NEW HEAVENS and a NEW EARTH.”

    2 Peter 3: 13. Nevertheless WE, according to his promise, LOOK FOR NEW HEAVENS and a NEW EARTH, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    Now I would like you to read what Justme says and compare it with what we have just read.

    Justme’s editorial quote.
    News flash!!!!!!!
    It is Prophecy Countdown's YEARNING for the events we've discussed to come about in his lifetime that has him locked in a mindset where he can't see the forest for the trees. (bible truth for the false religious doctrine)

    If Peter TELLS Prophecy Countdown to “LOOK FOR NEW HEAVENS and a NEW EARTH,” and Justme says is “the false religious doctrine.”
    Who are you going to listen to, Justme or Peter?
    I will stick with Peter even though He was looking for the hastening 2000 years ago.
    We should follow his zeal in faith. Nothing wrong with that at all.

    Consider the OPPOSING statements against the Bible, given by Justme above, and compare it with what Jesus says in the next verse.

    Luke 21:36. WATCH ye therefore, AND PRAY ALWAYS, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE these things that shall COME TO PASS, and TO STAND BEFORE GOD.
    Not only do I LOOK forward to HIS advent, just like the Disciples who ”yearned” for HIS advent like we all should.
    I see it in Daniel’s pages, which are being slowly turned.

    I keep my telescope fixed on Orion.

    The following quote is design to get up my nose well.. it’s like water on a ducks back,
    Justme quote.
    You felt you were dealt with unfairly here:well, somewhere, these things are so long I have to call in help just to scroll thru it, to read it and sort it out takes epochs.
    Anyway people look in post 99, this is the post that he is crying about. I don't see a problem at all.Something about this:


    Now this is what I said, so Justme shouldn’t mislead people with false statements.

    Justme quote “this is the post that he is crying about”

    Now let’s look at the record.
    What I said was. “I have been called a liar by Wills and a rambler by Justme,,, well that goes with the territory.”

    I mean, BIG DEAL! So what?

    So how about Justme, you stop bearing false witness against me, and try not to be so aggressively irritating verbally and try to remember the following verse.

    Rev 21:8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part IN THE LAKE which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Back to the Bible.
    Peter again emphasises the fact we should look for HIS advent just as Jesus enphasised the importance of it also in earlier verses.

    Peter said “that YE LOOK FOR SUCH THINGS, be DILEGENT.”

    2 Peter 3: 14. WHEREFORE BELOVED, seeing that YE LOOK FOR SUCH THINGS, be DILIGENT that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

    Now the above verses show how enthusiastically, how diligently they ALL LOOKED FORWARD TO THE COMING KINGDOM, they were LOOKING UP into the HEAVENS for the SIGNS of HIS SOON RETURN that is why they thought “IT WAS THE END OF THE AGE.”

    That was the question asked in Mat 24:3.

    “Tell us, when shall these things be? and what the sign of thy COMING, AND of THE END OF THE WORLD?”

    Did the above writer, along with the Disciples believe that Christ was to set up His kingdom within their lifetimes?
    Yes the writings prove that, eccept to Justme of course.

    Now how should we read the very next verse of Hebrews?
    If we were to read it like Justme, we would see a conflict of statements
    With regards Lazarus being raised after death then dying TWICE!!!

    Hebrews 9: 27. And as it is appointed unto MEN ONCE TO DIE, but after this the judgment:

    Hebrews 9:28. SO CHRIST WAS ONCE OFFERED to BEAR the SINS of many; and UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM SHALL HE APPEAR THE SECOND TIME WITHOUT SIN UNTO SALVATION.

    Every generation has hoped for the blessed salvation within their own time, as we do today so the writer would express himself in that way with that preconceived idea and obviously so would Paul as believing that the “end of the age” was to be at their time as we have just demonstrated with Paul’s own words.

    Was there anything wrong in that? No.

    Were they right about the TIME, “end of the age” which includes the seventh trumpet first resurrection?

    We are still here waiting for the prophecies to be fully completed some 2000 years later, do we wait in vain for the first Resurrection?

    Is it all allegorical?

    If as preterists believe its a done deal doesn’t that teaching take away the blessed hope of the first resurrection for us?
    That religious indoctrinated church theory is diametrically opposed to what Jesus said.
    Matthew 24:42. WATCH therefore: FOR YE KNOW NOT WHAT HOUR your LORD DOTH COME.

    Jesus was there He said it and he did not mention 70AD, it concerned His second coming and the end of the world, and we still have stones piled upon stones on that site at the wailing wall.
    Also we are still waiting, eccept the preterists who are looking backward.

    Is Justme right in thinking that the FIRST RESURRECTION AT TRUMPET SEVEN occurred back around 2000 years ago?
    Yet insists that Rev 11 was a done deal back then!

    This is some 2000 years later and we are STILL WAITING ON THIS SIN RIDDLED PLACE In our SIN riddled bodies, that CLEARLY indicates that it was not the INTENT of what Jesus had indicated in prophecy that the end of the
     
  6. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    world was around 70AD.

    The end of the age
    Some folk say, “yes but that’s what Peter said!!
    And I say yes he did.
    Well, they say , “how can he be wrong?
    So I say. Well,, it was the writer that had the time problem.
    It was the writers YEARNING that they ALL had for the second coming to COME ABOUT within their lifetime, it was their hope and prayer for it to be that way.

    Is this a salvation issue? No of course not.

    Was Peter always right about things? Of course not.
    Peter was wrong about circumcision, he took the Jews side and Paul told him to his face that he was wrong.
    They were men and men are mortal and mortals make mistakes.
    But do we throw the Bible out? Absolutely NOT.

    Peter was right about the event but wrong about the time, because the prophecies were not fulfilled in their time to full.

    God did not see fit to tell them back then, the time length factor.
    That is why Daniel’s book was sealed up until “the time of the end”? So that we won’t know, until we need to.
    It was God in His wisdom that did not let even Daniel know, that it was not to be for a long, long time into the future.
    Daniel asked Gabriel When?
    And Gabriel said “go thy way Daniel.”

    Daniel 12: 8. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
    We don’t tell our children how to light matches because they can’t handle it.
    There are some things in Gods wisdom that He keeps to Himself.
    Like the HOUR DAY MONTH and YEAR of HIS coming, that is a biblical fact, so get used to it pereterists.

    Justme quote.
    PC says He didn't even do away with sin.
    ******************
    From somewhere:


    My reply.
    I said that Jesus did not do away with sin AT HIS FIRST ADVENT but paid the price of sin as the second Adam.
    Sin killed Christ but it was not Christ that sinned it was our sins that He took on and paid for it with His life, so we could live.
    Jesus came to pay the price for our sin problem, so we could gain, by HIS gift the spiritual things, in faith.
    Our mortal bodies will become immortal so that we can live forever at trumpet number seven at the FIRST resurrection “the time of the end” at the second coming.

    1st Corinthians 15:45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit.
    46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    We need to be changed to be free of sin at the last trump sounding first resurrection at HIS second advent. Please read the following verses
    1 Corinthians 15:50. Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH and blood CANNOT INHERIT the KINGDOM of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL BE CHANGED, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the DEAD SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and we shall BE CHANGED.

    Jesus has to return to change us before the great battle of Armageddon check it out through Rev 19 and 20 for the chronology.
    Another example, using Hebrews is how some can read it as a hard and fast rule, or we can use our God given common sense to get to the intent.
    Hebrews 9:27.And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:
    Is that what the Bible says? Yes.
    Is the above a hard and fast rule? No.

    The above verse says it is APPOINTED for man to die once and we have many that state, that on that bases Moses cannot be one of the two witnesses.
    How then do they explain Lazarus. You see it is how we read the Gospel that is the problem, not what it says.
    Of course it was “appointed unto men, once to die,” but that is not a hard and fast rule there are exceptions.
    There is no contradiction, between being appointed that man die once and for God to act upon that situation, after all HE is the resurrection unto life.

    The fact is man was first appointed that man he should live forever in a beautiful garden called Eden.
    Now, I do hope that that is the end of the matter regards Hebrews 9, I have given my answers several times but Justme is running it like a broken record.
    I have decided that, that is the end of it as far as I am concerned.


    Now we still have the seventh trumpet, which is STILL a real problem for Justme.
    The Bible makes it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, that the seventh trumpet occurs at the ”time of the end” at the FIRST RESURRECTION which occurs at His second advent when He brings His reward with Him, which we have already studied..

    Justme asks
    Why would this be a problem for me?

    My question is how could Rev 11,as Justme supposes be a done deal back around 70 AD when in Rev 11.The last TRUMPET IS BLOWN to RAISE THE DEAD That can only happen at the SECOND COMING with all the associated no rain PERIOD OF 1260 DAYS and plagues periods of the seven 7 bowls of the wrath of God and the 7 trumpet plagues which are accompanied by the 3 woes and the ENEMIES of the two witnesses WHO LOOKED UP at them IN FEAR as they were being RAISED where are All the witnesses to happening the Romans would have seen it Josephus should have seen it?

    There are so many gaping holes in preterists theories you could drive a truck through them.

    The Bible has them stumped, no doubt about the BIBLE, it deals with false teachers very smartly.

    The BIBLE states at the seventh trumpet the dead shall be raised.


    1st Corinthians 15:52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    The last trump is trumpet number seven, there aren’t any more than seven.
    The Bible says that Jesus delays to save as many as possible that is why He still hasn’t come back yet.

    2 Peter 3:9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Justme claims that Rev 11 has been fulfilled. yet we are told, that AT THE LAST TRUMP THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE RAISED.
    The two witnesses ARE RAISED at the last trump of God.
    Of course that must include all those that are in the earth as well and all that are alive and on it waiting.

    Rev 11:11. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    12. And they HEARD A GREAT VOICE FROM HEAVEN saying unto them, COME UP HITHER.
    And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14. The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    Justme quote.
    Well, Jesus actually fullfilled ALL the prophecies about Him.

    My reply that’s not what the Bible says. Because the Kingdoms of this world have not fought at Armageddon yet.
    15. And the SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME of our LORD, and of his CHRIST; and HE SHALL REIGN for ever and EVER.

    The Romans had one king in 70AD yet the Bible speaks of ten kings giving their power to the Beast which gathers to fight the Lamb. Where was the Lamb in 70AD where are the witnesses that should have noted the Beast and the names of the 10 kings?
     
  7. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Rev 17:12. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
    14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    Justme quote.
    Here's a good argument you have with yourself:

    Jesus never entered into the man made Earthly Temple to plead our case. That HE will do in Heaven as the Lamb of God. There would be no point doing that in the earthly Temple

    Okay.THEN:Nope, I don't think so either.THEN: The reason for this is answered in the next verse.Hebrews 9: 25.Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; Yes, that earthly temple, with the HOLY PLACE that the priest entered was pretty Mickey Mouse compared to the one Jesus is in now, why the one He is now was not made by human hands, sounds perfect and very special.
    Well, one of the things it could be was the symbolic headquarters of those who opposed Jesus Christ. It could be the temple that had a HOLY PLACE that an abomination that causes desolation could appear in which the people of Judea could SEE, and understand it was time to flee the great tribulation.The earthly temple could be that because the bible says the abomination would appear in the HOLY PLACE and there was a HOLY PLACE in that temple. However, that abomination would have to do his appearing before said HOLY PLACE was destroyed.

    My reply. The ground that Moses stood on was holy ground and there was no Temple there on the mount. The Temple does not make it holy it was that already.

    Now for the identification of the, abomination that sits where he ought not.

    Justme quote
    I read this about your 'holy hill'. So where is the verses that tell me to WATCH FOR THE DEVIL sitting on a holy hill? I got to hand it to you, you're inventive, not very convincing, but inventive.

    Isaiah 14: 10. How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which DIDST WEAKEN THE NATIONS!

    1. So the person Jesus is talking of is LUCIFER

    Justme asks me.
    I read this about your 'holy hill'. So WHERE IS THE VERSES THAT TELL ME TO WATCH FOR THE DEVIL SITTING ON A HOLY HILL? I got to hand it to you, you're inventive, not very convincing, but inventive.



    So I’m “inventive” well lets see who invents things you or me.
    Let’s add up the facts.

    You asked me for “THE VERSES THAT TELL ME TO WATCH FOR THE DEVIL SITTING ON A HOLY HILL?”

    1. It’s the devil who wants to sit.

    Bible proof.
    Isaiah 14:13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL SIT also UPON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, in the SIDES OF THE NORTH:

    2. LUCIFER the devil will sit on the mount at the sides of the north.

    Justme’s same question.
    I read this about your 'HOLY HILL. So where is the verses that tell me to watch out for the devil sitting on a holy hill? I got to hand it to you, you're inventive, not very convincing, but inventive.

    3. LUCIFER sits on mount of His holiness, mount Zion.



    Psalms 48:1.Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in THE MOUNTAIN OF HIS HOLYNESS.
    2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is MOUNT ZION, on the SIDES OF THE NORTH, the CITY OF THE GREAT KING.

    Justme quote.
    I read this about your 'holy hill'. So where is the verses that tell me to watch out for the devil sitting on a holy hill? I got to hand it to you, you're inventive, not very convincing, but inventive.

    Justme quote.
    That old abomination that causes desolation has to appear in the holy place. The holy place is kapoot, ghandi. The holy place is kapoot since Titus destroyed it. Now Jesus sits in the most hol;y place and any abomination can't go there...


    We must first find the Holy place where the abomination can sit.
    Now It is correct that the abomination cannot sit in the Heavenly sanctuary.
    So where are we to look, seeing as the earthly Temple was destroyed in 70AD
    Well we know where the holy place was situated.

    What Holy place, is there on Earth?
    Bible. Hebrews 9:25.
    “Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the HOLY PLACE every year with blood of others.”

    So the only place left is the HOLY HILL. Because as Justme says the Temple is no longer there.
    Hebrews 9:24. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the HOLY HILL every year with blood of others;
    Bible.

    Justme quote.
    I read this about your HOLY HILL. So where is the verses that tell me to watch out for the devil sitting on a holy hill? I got to hand it to you, you're inventive, not very convincing, but inventive.
    No you are right but the Bible is a different story it has the convincing, convicting, converting message.
    The mistake with Justme is his/her reading of the following Bible statement.
    He does NOT NEED A BUILDING TO BE THERE to go in because he will PLANT HIS OWN ON THE HOLY HILL.
    Get it right Justme, he will plant his tabernacle in the glorious HOLY MOUNTAIN GOD’S HOLY HILL


    Daniel 11:45. And HE WILL PLANT THE TABERNACLES OF HIS PALACE between the seas IN THE GLORIOUS HOLY MOUNTAIN; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

    4. Satan plants his own palace and tabernacles on, mount Zion

    So Satan in is going to “plant his tabernacle,” “between the seas in the glorious holy mountain.” So the Lamb that speaks like a dragon is going to build his Tabernacle “in the glorious holy mountain.”
    Satan needs it, to sit in it, he says “I will be like the Most High.
    So, what do we have? We have the answer straight from the Bible .




    1. It’s the devil who wants to sit. Isaiah 14:13.

    2. LUCIFER the devil will sit on the MOUNT. Isaiah 14:13.

    3. LUCIFER sits on mount of His holiness, mount Zion. Psalms 48:1.

    4. Satan will plant his OWN palace and TABERNACLES on the holy hill, mount Zion Psalms 48:1.

    Get away from the fact that there is not a temple there yet, it will be “planted there” by Satan and he will sit in it, that’s BIBLE. Read it Justme there’s the biblical answer to your question.
    Your question has been answered, but let’s find more.
    Justme quote.
    I read this about your HOLY HILL. So where is the verses that tell me to watch out for the devil sitting on a holy hill? I got to hand it to you, you're inventive, not very convincing, but inventive.


    Now the next question is, at what TIME will Satan do it? And what will happen when he does?
    Because if you had studied the Bible you would have seen that we will not be able to buy or sell and that did not happen back then.
    Where was the mark of the beast on all those folk back then. Did Josephus pray to the beast and Satan or did he record any others doing that?
    THE BIBLE'S VERY NEXT VERSE TELLS US WHEN AND AT WHAT TIME. However let’s go back to the preceding verse to keep the flow.

    Daniel 11:45, And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet HE SHALL COME TO HIS END, and none shall help him.
     
  8. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Dan12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall MICHAEL STAND UP, the GREAT PRINCE which STANDETH for the CHILDREN of THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, every one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    So he will do it at “the time of the end” spoken of in Daniel. That is just before the first resurrection at trumpet number 7, when we will be called to be raised at the first resurrection.
    And if the abomination as you say did sit in the Temple, back then and the false prophet and beast were thrown in the fire as the Bible says where are your historic witnesses?

    The next question, is how long will Satan get away with it?

    Daniel is given the answer.

    Daniel 12:11. And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    So the answer is, about 3 ½ years. See, Dan 12:5-7.
    These things shall be allowed to go on until the Time of the end but time limits are applied.
    Acclesiastes 3:1. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

    Justme'a quote.
    Thanks for your reply, I quire enjoy this.

    My reply.
    Well you should “quire enjoy this” all you did was rant and rave lyrical, on and on with very little BIBLE and repeat questions that have already been answered, some four times.

    The acid TEST for preterists.


    So, the questions to Atkin, Justme, and Wills are these.

    Are the events in Matt 24 historic or future events?

    Are the events in Mark 13 historic or future events?

    Are the events in Luke 21 historic or future events?

    Are the events in Rev 11: 19: 20: historic events or future events?

    Are the events in Joel 1: 2: 3. Historic or future events?

    Are the seven trumpets and 3 woes historic or future events?

    Are the seven bowls of the wrath of God, historic or future events?

    Is the time period indicated in Daniel, the "2300 evening and morning" historic or future events?”

    How many days between the day of Atonement and the Passover?

    Is the time period indicated in Daniel of the 1260 days, historic or future?

    Is the time period indicated in Daniel of the 1290 days historic or future?

    Is the time period of the 1335 days of Daniel, historic or future?

    Is the time period mentioned by Daniel of a time, times and a half
    a Historic event or in the future?

    The rain that is stopped for 1260 days, by the two witnesses is it a historic event or future event?
    If it was a historic event who recorded it?

    Are the time, times and a half, time period of Revelation a historic or future event?

    Is the 42 months of Revelation a historic or future event?

    Is the 1260 days period of Revelation a Historic or future event?

    If these periods are “historic” could any preterist explain them, CLEARLY and define then ,CLEARLY so that we may see the explanations of them and see why they are put into the Bible by Jesus. Himself and through Gabriel, Palmini and what they are associated with and identify their meaning CLEARLY.

    Could a preterist explain the reason that the lion, bear, leopard are around at the same time for “a time and season” In Daniel 7:12.

    Why they are waiting around at THE SAME TIME in Rev 19 waiting for Armageddon to be put to the sword when preterists claim that they are supposed to be historic empires?

    If Justme, Atkin and Wills are unable to answer these questions
    CLEARLY, then we can take it as an admission of ignorance.

    Do preterists have any idea as to what they are talking about?

    As Justme said “!!!NEWS FLASH!!”

    Watch out for the next edition and see if the proof of the preterists pudding IS in the eating.
    Or will the preterist try to wriggle their way out of it?
    Maranatha

    PC.
     
  9. Wills

    Wills Member

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    Ezekiel seems to be telling us of SIN during the millenium

    A picture of goats and bulls being sacrificed at a time when SIN should not exist in the people who have access to the temple.

    This vision cannot feature in our future... denies Christ and prophesies the need for animal sacrifice ... in the MILLENIUM.

    I see a goat being sacrificed in Ezekiel 43:22

    I see a prince supervising SIN offerings. Why is there SIN around this temple of future?

    EZEKIEL 45:17 WHICH PRINCE IS THIS?
    17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings,
    and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in
    all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the SIN offering, and the
    meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make
    reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    Why SIN HERE?
    Ezekiel 46:13 Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the
    first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning.
    14 And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of
    an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a meat
    offering continually by a perpetual ordinance unto the LORD.
    15 Thus shall they prepare the lamb, and the meat offering, and the oil, every
    morning for a continual burnt offering.

    Ezekiel 46:20 Then said he unto me, This is the place where the priests shall boil the
    trespass offering and the sin offering, where they shall bake the meat offering;
    that they bear them not out into the utter court, to sanctify the people.
     
  10. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Prophecy Countdown,

    I am a supporter of the largest protestant denomination in Canada. I arrived at my understanding of the bible probably ten years before I heard the word 'preterist.'

    From somewhere in one of your posts:

    Justme quote.
    Well, Jesus actually fullfilled ALL the prophecies about Him.
    (PC 's reply below)
    My reply that’s not what the Bible says. Because the Kingdoms of this world have not fought at Armageddon yet.

    Luke 21
    22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

    The wrath thing, that those people from Jerusalem were supposed to flee from when they saw the abomination sitting in the holy place which was in the temple in Jerusalem which WAS the building next to the one that still has part of one wall remaining.

    When Jesus made this statement, which we call the Olivet Discourse, He warned the people of Judea to flee when they saw the abomination that causes desolation appear in the Holy Place.

    Hebrews 9 tells us where the Holy Place WAS.
    2A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand, the table and the consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place.

    There is argument to say this was actually in the first temple, but it seems kind of wierd for Jesus to tell the people of His day to watch for something from 600 years before they were born.....

    The flight of the people is to avoid the time of wrath which is immediately before the parousia. The battle of Armmagedon is a fight between good and evil, sounds a lot like the mess in the time of wrath getting rid of the evil generation, don't you think.

    Anyway no matter when this time of wrath is, all of prophecy connected with it is fullfilled. Predictions about what He would do is mentioned here:

    Luke 18:31
    Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.

    You wrote...many times..

    I said that Jesus did not do away with sin AT HIS FIRST ADVENT but paid the price of sin as the second Adam.

    So you are saying that Jesus did not DO AWAY with sin at all during His first time on earth.

    I will capitiize a phrase in the bible that points out that you are incorrect, you may have seen this verse before, but somehow I don't think you have really SEEN it yet.

    6Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all AT THE END OF THE AGES TO DO AWAY WITH SIN by the sacrifice of himself.

    That is what the bible says. If it didn't agree with other verses anywhere, maybe we could explain it away somehow BUT:

    Colossians1
    23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

    The above paves the way for the fulfillment of this prediction.

    Matt 24
    14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    Which agrees with:

    Hebrews 1:2
    but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

    Which agrees with Joel and Acts 2

    17" 'In the last days, God says,
    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

    He did that in the upper room.

    The reason I am not the preterist that you think I am is because I see the holy spirit still being poured out on the people and the second coming of Christ is future for all of us.

    What you don't seem to understand is that all these verses about trumpets and whatever fit in with the time of the end, the parousia and all events written in the bible irregardless of when the end is. If it is tommorow it applies, if it was yesterday they still apply.

    From your post:

    Peter was right about the event but wrong about the time, because the prophecies were not fulfilled in their time to full.
    ***************
    Please tell us when Peter said the time was, tell us when Paul told us the end of the ages was and remember Luke said prophecies WERE fulfilled.

    Maybe also explain how these God inspired writers didn't know when this end of the ages was, yet felt they should write it down anyway.
    That would be Paul, Luke and Joel et al.

    As far as your holy hill stuff, I'll wait til the Pc book is canonized and put in the bible. So I won't dignify any of that with an answer. Sorry.

    You have an acid test for preterists, it will be interesting to see what they say.

    I am a bibli-ist as you can see from the verses I continually post and read word for word.

    In the Book of PC, what is the first resurrection?

    Is it the same as the first resurrection of Rev 20:4 and 6?

    So I will leave you with this biblical truth taken directly from the inspired word of God, this truth has been shown to you to agree with the word for word reading of three other 'witness' verses as well:

    6Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all AT THE END OF THE AGES TO DO AWAY WITH SIN by the sacrifice of himself.

    You have tried to explain them away, you have appealed to us to ignore the word as written and to accept your rationalizations, but every time I print out that verse it says the same dern thing...
    Jesus returned at the end of the ages to do away with sin by His own sacrifice. The end of the ages was that generation, but from what I can see the bible says Jesus will return in my life time. ????????????
    I quire enjoy this.
    Justme
     
  11. Wills

    Wills Member

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    Friend,

    Perhaps you could elaborate on why there is the need for this in Ezekiel.

    In our glorious millenium, the need for SIN offerings?
    The gross disregard of Christ's sacrifice.. In fact the horrible desire for humans to

    ask Christ-God himself to sacrifice a bull, a goat? Is this rational or blasphemy?

    Kindly explain Ezekiel 45, 46 etc

    Ezekiel seems to be telling us of SIN during the millenium

    A picture of goats and bulls being sacrificed at a time when SIN should not exist in the people who have
    access to the temple.

    This vision cannot feature in our future... denies Christ and prophesies the need for animal sacrifice ... in
    the MILLENIUM.

    I see a goat being sacrificed in Ezekiel 43:22

    I see a prince supervising SIN offerings. Why is there SIN around this temple of future?

    EZEKIEL 45:17 WHICH PRINCE IS THIS?
    17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings,
    and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in
    all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the SIN offering, and the
    meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make
    reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    Why SIN HERE?
    Ezekiel 46:13 Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the
    first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning.
    14 And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of
    an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a meat
    offering continually by a perpetual ordinance unto the LORD.
    15 Thus shall they prepare the lamb, and the meat offering, and the oil, every
    morning for a continual burnt offering.

    Ezekiel 46:20 Then said he unto me, This is the place where the priests shall boil the
    trespass offering and the sin offering, where they shall bake the meat offering;
    that they bear them not out into the utter court, to sanctify the people.
     
  12. cbk

    cbk Guest

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    I don't know where you all are going with this, but true, I understand that Moses and Elijah lived under the Old Law, however, is it not possible that both these are DISSIMILAR to the Rabbis of today (and 200 centuries ago), because these two were JUSTIFIED by FAITH and not by law in the eyes of God??? What if these two understood that faith through the Messiah brought justification without law, even though his death was yet to take place?? Could justification be given under these circumstances as it is given to we who are 2000 years removed??

    We have a choice today to be justified by law (Mosiac) or by faith through the grace of God through the Messiah. Could Moses and Elijah not have jualified if they were imparted the same knowledge as we??

    To those who live by faith, there is no law -- of which Moses and Elijah may have done,,, even more so than many Christians today (which could be the subject of another thread). And although you state that when Jesus was speaking to Moses and Elijah that it was a vision, I disagree. What scriptural evidence do you have that this was merely a vision and not reality??? And, if it were a vision, what was the purpose and scripture evidence to support this purpose????
     
  13. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Hi there cbk, this might be of some help with your ongoing research.

    As you may know, under some Western laws two witnesses are needed to condemn a man to death. Even under Mosaic law two witnesses are needed to do the same thing.

    Deuteronomy 17:6. At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. 7The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

    Satan is going to be brought to the sides of the pit reduced from angel to a man.

    By the way cbk, Moses is saved so are all the old Prophets and Job was absolutely certain of it.

    Wills’ quote.
    Moses is not a Christian. He cannot accept Jesus hence cannot come back.

    Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

    See ya.
    Maranatha
    PC.
     
  14. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Greetings, well ,,, what can I say? My predictions of the questions I asked Justme, Wills and Atkin have NOT been answered and I said the following.
    “If Justme, Atkin and Wills are unable to answer these questions
    CLEARLY, then we can take it as an admission of ignorance.”

    One fair question was.
    Do preterists have any idea as to what they are talking about?

    Their REPUTATIONS were and are riding on my questions being answered by the three of them.
    It was a chance for them to put up or admit their ignorance on these matters.

    Justme, Wills, and Atkin, have YET TO TELL US ALL of their answers. :confused:

    As Justme said “!!!NEWS FLASH!!” so I used the same heading to highlight the following, and it looks as if my prediction is coming true.

    Re-quote.
    Watch out for the next edition and see if the proof of the preterists pudding IS in the eating.
    Or will the preterist try to wriggle their way out of it?

    Justme's qoute.
    Hi Prophecy Countdown,
    I am a supporter of the largest protestant denomination in Canada. I arrived at my understanding of the bible probably ten years before I heard the word 'preterist.'

    My reply,
    Well then being as you belong to the “largest protestant denomination in Canada,” there should be lots of folk that can answer those questions I asked of you, or is the whole of your church unable to do that task.?
    Ask your Minister, Or theologians for the answers.


    Justme quote.
    Well, Jesus actually fullfilled ALL the prophecies about Him.
    (PC 's reply below)
    That’s not what the Bible says. Because the Kingdoms of this world have not fought at Armageddon yet.
    Armageddon has not been fought yet.


    If you are going to quote me, Then do it fully and do it properly!!!

    This is What you and I said.
    QUOTE.
    Justme quote.
    PC says He didn't even do away with sin.
    ******************
    From somewhere:


    My reply.
    I said that Jesus did not do away with sin AT HIS FIRST ADVENT but paid the price of sin as the second Adam.
    Sin killed Christ but it was not Christ that sinned it was our sins that He took on and paid for it with His life, so we could live.
    Jesus came to pay the price for our sin problem, so we could gain, by HIS gift the spiritual things, in faith.
    Our mortal bodies will become immortal so that we can live forever at trumpet number seven at the FIRST resurrection “the time of the end” at the second coming.

    1st Corinthians 15:45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit.
    46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    We need to be changed to be free of sin at the last trump sounding first resurrection at HIS second advent. Please read the following verses
    1 Corinthians 15:50. Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH and blood CANNOT INHERIT the KINGDOM of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL BE CHANGED, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the DEAD SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and we shall BE CHANGED.

    Jesus has to return, to change us before the great battle of Armageddon check it out through Rev 19 and 20 for the chronology.

    That is what I said folks.

    Now to try and hammer home the intent of the Bible. The following is what I meant when I said, “That’s not what the Bible says. Because the Kingdoms of this world have not fought at Armageddon yet.”
    This is the Bible passage that verifies that fact. Also, to claim that this was done back in 70AD is incorrect to say the least.


    Revelation 16:14. For they are the SPIRITS OF DEVILS, working miracles, which GO FORTH unto the KINGS OF THE EARTH and of the WHOLE WORLD, to GATHER THEM to the BATTLE of that GREAT DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY. 15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16And HE GATHERED THEM TOGETHER into a PLACE called in the Hebrew tongue ARMAGEDDON.
    17And the SEVENTH ANGEL poured out his vial into the air; and there came a GREAT VOICE out of the TEMPLE OF HEAVEN, FROM THE THRONE, saying, IT IS DONE.

    “IT IS DONE?”
    None of the above was “done “ at the first advent, when JESUS CAME LIKE A LAMB TO THE SLAUGHTER.
    When HE comes again look out!
    Look UP to the heavens and see the ANCIENT OF DAYS with the LORD WITH ALL HIS POWER AND GLORY and with HIS angels.. :clap:

    Luke 21:28. And when these things begin to come to pass, then LOOK UP, and LIFT UP YOUR HAEDS; for YOUR REDEMPTION DRWETH NIGH.

    Mark 13:25. And the STARS of heaven SHALL FALL, and THE POWERS that are IN HEAVEN shall be SHAKEN. 26 And then SHALL THEY SE THE SON OF MAN COMING in the CLOUDS with GREAT POWER AND GLORY.

    The last verses did not happen in 70AD so what was it you said?

    Justme’s quote.
    ”Well, Jesus actually fullfilled ALL the prophecies about Him.”

    My remarks.
    The following verses you used to verify your point for which I thank you.

    Justme’s quote.
    “Luke 21
    22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.”
    “The wrath thing, that those people from Jerusalem were supposed to flee from when they saw the abomination sitting in the holy place which was in the temple in Jerusalem which WAS the building next to the one that still has part of one wall remaining.”
    My reply Justme you have quoted correctly, however you must include
    Luke 21:27. And then SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING in A CLOUD with POWER and GREAT GLORY. 28And WHEN these things BEGIN to COME to pass, then LOOK UP, and LIFT UP YOUR HEADS; for your REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH.



    Justme quote.
    When Jesus made this statement, which we call the Olivet Discourse, He warned the people of Judea to flee when they saw the abomination that causes desolation appear in the Holy Place.

    My reply.
    No. Justme, there was NO redemption in 70AD or complete fulfilment. Where did every eye SEE HIM COME WITH GREAT POWER AND GLORY?

    Justme quote.
    Hebrews 9 tells us where the Holy Place WAS.
    2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand, the table and the consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place.
    There is argument to say this was actually in the first temple, but it seems kind of wierd for Jesus to tell the people of His day to watch for something from 600 years before they were born.....

    My reply.
    Justme, I have told you three times now, that it is Satan that will “plant his Tabernacles on the mount," on holy ground.

    Daniel 11:45. And HE SHALL PLANT HIS TABERNACLES of his PALACE between the seas in GLORIOUS HOLY MOUNTAIN; yet he shall COME TO HIS END, and none shall help him.
    Daniel 12:1. And at that time shall MICHAEL SHALL STAND UP, the GREAT PRINCE which STANDETH for the CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, every one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
    The above is END OF TIME SPEAK.
    Now Justme LOOK at it! THAT DID NOT HAPPEN in 70AD.

    Why do you LIMIT GOD’S prophesying power by the duration of it?
    He was talking to ALL generations to come, that’s includes us.
    As I have told you before Jesus did not let them know how long it would be before He returned. Daniel wanted to know and was told, “GO THY WAY Daniel.” :clap:
     
  15. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Daniel 12:8. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O MY LORD WHAT shall be THE END OF THESE things? 9 And he said, GO THY WAY DANIEL, Daniel: for the WORDS are CLOSED UP and sealed till the TIME OF THE END.


    Justme quote.
    The flight of the people is to avoid the time of wrath which is immediately before the parousia. The battle of Armmagedon is a fight between good and evil, sounds a lot like the mess in the time of wrath getting rid of the evil generation, don't you think.
    Anyway no matter when this time of wrath is, all of prophecy connected with it is fullfilled. Predictions about what He would do is mentioned here:
    Luke 18:31
    Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.

    My reply.
    Yes they WILL BE fulfilled at the time of HIS SECOND COMING.
    That is yet to happen.

    Justme re-quotes. For the 4th time!!! :sleep:
    You wrote...many times..
    I said that Jesus did not do away with sin AT HIS FIRST ADVENT but paid the price of sin as the second Adam.
    So you are saying that Jesus did not DO AWAY with sin at all during His first time on earth.I will capitiize a phrase in the bible that points out that you are incorrect, you may have seen this verse before, but somehow I don't think you have really SEEN it yet.
    6Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all AT THE END OF THE AGES TO DO AWAY WITH SIN by the sacrifice of himself.
    That is what the bible says. If it didn't agree with other verses anywhere, maybe we could explain it away somehow BUT:Colossians1 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. The above paves the way for the fulfillment of this prediction.

    Matt 24
    14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    My reply.

    My reply. Are you deliberately being obtuse?
    I have dealt with the above subject 4 times, however you don’t seem to bother reading what others place in front of you, otherwise you would not keep on and on and on repeating these dealt with matters.



    Justme’s quote.
    Which agrees with:Hebrews 1:2
    but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

    Which agrees with Joel and Acts 2
    17" 'In the last days, God says,
    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

    He did that in the upper room.

    My reply.
    You never ever quote the full Bible do you?
    Every time you take a verse out of context to deceive others, and even, yourself you do God a Disservice. Then other folk are left to clean up the mess.

    Matt 24:14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come
    Has the “END COME?”
    No, it has not.
    Why not?
    Because the Bible has not been preached ALL over the world.
    Hello! Justme. Wake up! The END COMES when the BIBLE GOES to ALL the WORLD.
    The end has NOT happened!!!
    So what does that tell most reasonably intelligent people about your theology?
    Again you do not even read the intent of the Holy Scriptures properly and you try to teach others?

    Hebrews 1:2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    He has been appointed heir of all things.
    He purged our sins at His First advent that is inline with what I said earlier.
    Of course He will sit by the Ancient of Days, the Majesty on high.

    Hebrews 1:3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    HE paid the price that we or Angels could not do because HE is “better than the angels.” When Jesus, incarnate came to Earth at His first advent He was better than any angel even in HIS HUMAN STATE.
    That is inline with what I have been saying.

    Hebrews 1:4. Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.



    Justem’s quote.
    The reason I am not the preterist that you think I am is because I see the holy spirit still being poured out on the people and the second coming of Christ is future for all of us.

    My reply.
    Yes you are! I suggest you look up preterist. Your opinion has tried to state that all the heavenly signs and wonders heralding His second advent, are a done deal at His first.

    Justme’s quote.
    “What you don't seem to understand is that all these verses about trumpets and whatever fit in with the time of the end, the parousia and all events written in the bible irregardless of when the end is. If it is tommorow it applies, if it was yesterday they still apply.”

    So you have CHANGED YOUR MIND!!!!
    You now agree with the BIBLE that the signs and wonders are FUTURE!!!

    Hang on a bit, that is an oxymoron because you state one thing then state the opposite as I have read and repeated below.

    Justme’s quote. repeated.
    “If it is tommorow it applies, if it was yesterday they still apply.”

    My reply.
    No. Justme, think?
    If it were tomorrow it is prophecy, to BE fulfilled.
    If it were to have been fulfilled yesterday, it would be historic, and we would have been changed from mortal to an immortal state.

    Justme, you mentioned Joel. Which I have dealt with once before.
    Joel mentions therefore concerns the outpouring of the holy spirit.
    Which you indicate was fulfilled in the upper room, well Justme, you have to learn not to jump in just for the sake of arguing with people trying to prove yourself right all the time, instead of proving what the Bible says.

    Rule one is first read the Bible verses fully and noting the intent of the Book. Proceed with your careful study, after asking for the Lord’s word of understanding.
    If you were in my Sabbath class, I would teach you how to research a little better and remain cohesive with one point at a time being made.
    I would also teach you how to concentrate on what sayeth the Bible firstly, then on that bases only form your opinion.
    Putting aside all our preconceived notions is a requisite to safe Bible study.
    Then I would expect you to bring in back up verses with the a very strict enphasise placed on the biblical intent when joining it all together with biblical cohesion being foremost in your mind.


    You mention Acts 2 as being inline with Joel.

    At the risk of upsetting you again into a mindless word attack on me personally, I will try and set you straight.

    Acts 2: 17. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

    So what does “pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:” mean?
    Is the verse talking about “ALL FLESH” or just 120 in the upper room?
    Joel gives us the answer.

    Joel 2:28. And it shall come to pass AFTERWARD, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS shall PROPHESY, your old men shall dream dreams, your YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS: 29And also upon the servants and upon the HANDMAIDS in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30And I will SHEW WONDERS IN THE HEAVENS and in the earth, BLOOD, and FIRE, and pillars of smoke. 31The SUN SHALL be turned into DARKNESS, and the MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE the GREAT and the TERRIBLE DAY of the LORD COME. 32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall CALL on the NAME of the LORD shall be DELIVERED: for in MOUNT ZION and in JERUSALEM shall be DELIVERANCE, as the LORD hath said, and in the REMNANT whom the LORD SHALL CALL.
     
  16. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Just look at the intent. The words “deliverance,”
    “remnant,” “shall be DELIVERED.” That is time of the end speak, not 70AD.
    What Time is Joel speaking of?
    The second coming.
    He is speaking of the time of the end including Armageddon.
    I will highlight in capitals and let you work it out.


    Joel 2:10.Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let ALL the INHABITANCE of the land TREMBLE: for THE DAY OF THE LORD COMETH, for it is nigh AT HAND;
    2 A day of DARKNESS and of GLOOMINESS, a day of clouds and of THICK DARKNESS, as the morning spread upon the mountains: A GREAT PEOPLE and A STRONG; there hath NOT BEEN EVER the like, NEITHER AGAIN be ANY MORE AFTER IT, even to the years of many generations.

    3 A FIRE DEVOURETH before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a DESOLATE WILDERNESS; yea, and NOTHING shall ESCAPE them.

    4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run

    5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a STRONG PEOPLE SET IN BATTLE ARRAY.

    6. Before their face the PEOPLE SHALL BE MUCH PAINED: all FACES shall gather BLACKNESS. 7They shall run like MIGHTY MEN; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

    8. Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when THEY FALL UPON THE SWORD, they SHALL NOT BE WOUNDED.

    These mighty people aren’t even hurt by the sword that my friends is immortal body speak after the resurrection when Jesus raises HIS great army.




    9. They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
    10. The EARTH shall QUAKE before them; the HEAVENS shall TREMBLE: the SUN and the MOON shall be DARK, and the STARS shall WITHDRAW their SHINING:
    11. And the LORD shall utter his voice before HIS ARMY: for HIS camp is very GREAT: for he is STRONG that executeth his word: for the DAY OF THE LORD is GREAT and very TERRIBLE; and WHAO CAN ABIDE IT?

    Where does Jesus get “His great army?”


    The Bible does NOT say the (MEEK) and (mild) day of the Lord.
    I leave my Peers to work it out.

    Ezekiel speaks of how God will raise “His exceedingly great army.”
    Which is at the resurrection at trump 7 at the time of the end and certainly not in 70AD,

    Ezekiel 37:1.The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
    2And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. 3And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. 4Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. 5Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: 6And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 7So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. 8And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. 9Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 10So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, AN EXCEEDING GREAT ARMY. 11Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O MY PEOPLE, I will OPEN YOUR GRAVES, and CAUSE YOU to COME UP out of your GRAVES, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought YOU UP OUT of YOUR GRAVES, 14And shall put my spirit in you, and YE SHALL LIVE, and I shall place you in your own land: THEN SHALL YE KNOW that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

    The above is, time of the end and Armageddon speak.

    Now for the Holy Spirit conundrum.

    What Justme does NOT REALISE is there are TWO OUTPOURINGS of the Holy Spirit. They are separate from one another and are at DIFFERENT times.

    Not until there is that same power that came on the day of Pentecost would the infant church have left Jerusalem let alone spread across the world.

    It is foolish to try to do God's work without God's power.
    So the need of the church today to finish the work. Is the same need as seen back there in the beginning of the work. And that is the power, the presence of the Holy Spirit.
    Now we talk about the early rain and the latter rain. The first Rain or outpouring of the Holy Spirit was on the day of Pentecost.
    As the early rain started the work of the early church, the latter rain will finish it.

    But we are not seeing early rain results. Not the kind of results they had.
    James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the EARLY AND LATTER RAIN.

    The fruit of the earth are the saved or harvest but that will not happen until the early and latter rain.
    The only difference between the early rain and latter is quantity.
    The early rain had a quality about it.
    That will be exactly duplicated in the latter rain but, Abundantly.

    Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the FORMER RAIN MODERATELY, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the FORMER RAIN, and the LATTER RAIN in the first.

    Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
    Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

    As the early rain was given MODERATELY so the LATTER RAIN will be given ABUNDANTLY.

    Now for the link with Acts.

    What we read in acts is but a sample a few drops compared to what we are going to see in the latter rain.
    What I have begun to do is read acts not as history but as prophecy and it's thrilling.
    On top of that, this book is called the acts of the Apostles it should really be called the acts of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
    What we are really reading in acts is how God's church properly behaves when the church is under the governance of God.
    When the church is under the governance of men we stagnate.
    But when the church is under the governing power of God then everything explodes. Everything becomes incredibly different.
    The book of acts are the acts of the Holy Spirit and how the church behaves when under the governance of the Holy Spirit.

    Justme re-quotes me.
    Peter was right about the event but wrong about the time, because the prophecies were not fulfilled in their time to full.

    Justme asks.
    Please tell us when Peter said the time was, tell us when Paul told us the end of the ages was and remember Luke said prophecies WERE fulfilled.

    My reply is the same as previously stated, about Paul’s statements.

    How can I tell you something like "Peter said the time was,?"
    Peter didn’t have a clue as to ”when the time was,” so how can I quote him?
    Peter's eagerness, that the Lord would come soon, can be seen clearly in the verses that I have shown earlier, don't you bother reading them?

    Justme's request to me.
    Please show verse regards Luke’s statements?

    My reply.
    Is it Luke 1: 20. 2:43. 4:21. 21:22, 24, 32. 22:16. 24:44?

    Justme quote.
    Maybe also explain how these God inspired writers didn't know when this end of the ages was, yet felt they should write it down anyway.
    That would be Paul, Luke and Joel et al.

    My reply.
    Try this on for size, Justme as an example of how the BIBLE deals with your unsound reasoning.
    Daniel 8:27. And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king’s business; and I was astonished at the vision, BUT NONE UNDERSTOOD it.
     
  17. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Justme's quote.
    As far as your holy hill stuff, I'll wait til the Pc book is canonized and put in the bible. So I won't dignify any of that with an answer. Sorry.

    My reply.
    So you believe in the man made canonised ideas of men. Well that’s your right, even though it is foolishness at best.
    I HAVE GIVEN YOU BIBLE VERSE BY VERSE, ABOUT THE HOLY HILL, AND THE MOUNT, AT THE SIDES OF THE NORTH IN DETAIL
    .
    If you want to reject the Bible passages that I gave you, as your last statement proves, for the teachings of men, then that’s OK it’s your life.

    Justme’s quote.
    You have an acid test for preterists, it will be interesting to see what they say.
    I am a bibli-ist as you can see from the verses I continually post and read word for word.

    My reply.
    Well then, Justme you will be able to pass the Bible acid test by answering those questions from your BIBLE.
    I wait for your reply, because we know that you wouldn’t be bluffing, but if you are you will NOT BE ABLE TO answer the questions.
    We shall see won’t we.


    Justme trying to be foolishly clever.
    quote.
    “In the Book of PC, what is the first resurrection?”

    My reply there is no book of PC. so don’t start telling untruths. That’s the second time you have broken two commandments at once by bearing false witness against me and being untruthful.

    Rev 21:8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Justme quote.
    Is it the same as the first resurrection of Rev 20:4 and 6?
    So I will leave you with this biblical truth taken directly from the inspired word of God, this truth has been shown to you to agree with the word for word reading of three other 'witness' verses as well:
    6Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all AT THE END OF THE AGES TO DO AWAY WITH SIN by the sacrifice of himself.

    Justme's quote.
    Here we go again Justme is running out of Bible passages so round and round and round we go again and again and again. It’s called the broken record syndrome. This last question was answered before by me, so try and read it Justme.

    Justme’s quote.
    You have tried to explain them away, you have appealed to us to ignore the word as written and to accept your rationalizations, but every time I print out that verse it says the same dern thing...
    Jesus returned at the end of the ages to do away with sin by His own sacrifice. The end of the ages was that generation, but from what I can see the bible says Jesus will return in my life time. ????????????
    I quire enjoy this.
    Justme

    My reply.
    Well, I am glade you “quire enjoy this.”
    But you are repeating yourself and it is becoming a little obvious that you do not understand the Bible just as you did not understand the fact that there were two outpourings of the Holy Spirit. TWO OUTPOURINGS, and we are still waiting for the second to happen! The first at the start of His infant church, then the second to come so that prophecy CAN BE COMPLETED FULLY.

    I will repeat again my previous answere at the great risk of seeming to be stultifyingly boring to my Peers, but this is the last time ,,, I hope,, that ,,,is,, if Justme ,,, can ,,,or,,, is ,,,,able ,,,to read plain English?

    REPEAT, REPEAT. :sleep:

    I said that Jesus did not do away with sin AT HIS FIRST ADVENT but paid the price of sin as the second Adam.
    Sin killed Christ but it was not Christ that sinned it was our sins that He took on and paid for it with His life, so we could live.
    Jesus came to pay the price for our sin problem, so we could gain, by HIS gift the spiritual things, in faith.
    Our mortal bodies will become immortal so that we can live forever at trumpet number seven at the FIRST resurrection “the time of the end” at the second coming.

    1st Corinthians 15:45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit.
    46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    We need to be changed to be free of sin at the last trump sounding first resurrection at HIS second advent. Please read the following verses.
    1 Corinthians 15:50. Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH and blood CANNOT INHERIT the KINGDOM of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51Behold, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL BE CHANGED, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the DEAD SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and we shall BE CHANGED.


    Now let me give you a chance to answer the questions, seeing as you said this next statement.

    Justme's grand claim, quote.
    “I am a bibli-ist as you can see from the verses I continually post and read word for word.”

    My reply,
    so come on then,,, please “word for word,” answers to these questions?

    Or were you bluffing? :

    I think you were, naughty, naughty, he he he. :p

    So, the questions to Atkin, Justme, and Wills are these.

    Are the events in Matt 24 historic or future events?

    Are the events in Mark 13 historic or future events?

    Are the events in Luke 21 historic or future events?

    Are the events in Rev 11: 19: 20, historic events or future events?

    Are the events in Joel 1: 2: 3. Historic or future events?

    Are the seven trumpets and 3 woes historic or future events?

    Are the seven bowls of the wrath of God, historic or future events?

    Is the time period indicated in Daniel, the” 2300 evening and morning historic or future events?”

    How many days between the day of Atonement and the Passover?

    Is the time period indicated in Daniel of the 1260 days, historic or future?

    Is the time period indicated in Daniel of the 1290 days historic or future?

    Is the time period of the 1335 days of Daniel, historic or future?

    Is the time period mentioned by Daniel of a time, times and a half
    a Historic event or in the future?

    The rain that is stopped for 1260 days, by the two witnesses is it a historic event or future event?
    If it was a historic event who recorded it?

    Are the time, times and a half, time period of Revelation a historic or future event?

    Is the 42 months of Revelation a historic or future event?

    Is the 1260 days period of Revelation a Historic or future event?

    If these periods are “historic” could any preterist explain them, CLEARLY and define then ,CLEARLY so that we may see the explanations of them and see why they are put into the Bible by Jesus. Himself and through Gabriel, Palmini and what they are associated with and identify there meaning CLEARLY.

    Could a preterist explain the reason that the lion, bear, leopard are around at the same time for “a time and season” In Daniel 7:12.

    Why they are waiting around at THE SAME TIME in Rev 19 waiting for Armageddon, to be put to the sword when preterists claim that they are supposed to be historic empires?


    Did Justme know that there were two outpourings of the Holy Spirit? :idea:

    Well,, all we have to do now my Peers is wait for their answers or for them to start admitting that they don’t know the answers.

    YEAH! Don’t hold your breath Folks. :rolleyes:

    Pride is a very powerful Satanic weapon. :mad:

    Maranatha.

    Prophecy Countdown.
     
  18. Wills

    Wills Member

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    Why should the two be dissimilar to the Rabbis today?

    Are the Rabbis not following the teachings of Moses ?

    If so, why are many Jews who are following Moses's teachings, not accepting Christ--ESPECIALLY since you state that Moses believed
    in Christ.

    Explain why the Rabbis WHO follow the Mosaic law, do not accept the same Christ that Moses believes in? There seems to be no reason for them NOT TO accept Christ IF MOSES HIMSELF in your words, accepted Christ as confirmed in the vision. Jewish Rabbis over the centuries and up till today should then follow the example of Moses's acceptance of Christ.

    Do the Jewish Rabbis have no regard for MOSES? Obviously they do hence why would they not accept the deity of Christ WHO MOSES himself bows to AS HIS LORD JESUS.

    Give a concise explanation as to their difference in belief as compared to Moses, a very faithful Jew, whose words Jews today hold in very high regardm re: Torah etc
    Are you implying that NON BELIEF IN CHRIST can be replaced by following the Law alone-WITHOUT accepting Christ's deity as Son of God
    You are well aware the Jewish Rabbis and Synagogues REJECT Christ's deity AS SON OF GOD AND GOD in flesh-- BUT MOSES, who they acknowledge, bows down to Jesus as Son of God and God in flesh. This is contradictory.
     
  19. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
    +0
    Messianic
    The Moderator has spoken to you once.

    Kindly answer this question below succintly in relation to your issue regarding SIN in the millenium .

    Perhaps you could elaborate on why there is the need for this in Ezekiel.

    In our glorious millenium, the need for SIN offerings?
    The gross disregard of Christ's sacrifice.. In fact the horrible desire for humans to

    ask Christ-God himself to sacrifice a bull, a goat? Is this rational or blasphemy?

    Kindly explain Ezekiel 45, 46 etc

    Ezekiel seems to be telling us of SIN during the millenium

    A picture of goats and bulls being sacrificed at a time when SIN should not exist in the people who have
    access to the temple.

    This vision cannot feature in our future... denies Christ and prophesies the need for animal sacrifice ... in
    the MILLENIUM.

    I see a goat being sacrificed in Ezekiel 43:22

    I see a prince supervising SIN offerings. Why is there SIN around this temple of future?

    EZEKIEL 45:17 WHICH PRINCE IS THIS?
    17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings,
    and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in
    all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the SIN offering, and the
    meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make
    reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    Why SIN HERE?
    Ezekiel 46:13 Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the
    first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning.
    14 And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of
    an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a meat
    offering continually by a perpetual ordinance unto the LORD.
    15 Thus shall they prepare the lamb, and the meat offering, and the oil, every
    morning for a continual burnt offering.

    Ezekiel 46:20 Then said he unto me, This is the place where the priests shall boil the
    trespass offering and the sin offering, where they shall bake the meat offering;
    that they bear them not out into the utter court, to sanctify the people.
     
  20. Atkin

    Atkin Member

    428
    +1
    Christian


    The issue is of great import and calls their faith in question. Who really believes in whom. Take time to analyse this very carefully.

    The Jews seriously acknowledge Moses's teachings in TORAH and do not disavow and denigrate Moses. If they did, then they would be just as
    Muslims or some non believers. Now, we see Moses acknowledging Christ as the Messiah, God in flesh.

    Hence it is strange that Jewish Rabbis over CENTURIES have not accepted what their own MOSES accepted -that is Christ as God in flesh. This is surprising from the Jewish Rabbis and Sages over years
    since they follow Moses's writings as inspired and are in full belief and agreement regarding the TORAH.

    The one who wrote the TORAH , MOSES, bows down before Jesus, SO WHAT EXCUSE does the Jewish Torah believing Rabbis and other
    Jews have in totally rejecting Christ? Moses, their sage AND whose teachings they follow, bows before Christ.

    1 Cor 10:1
    1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
     
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