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Abomination of desolation

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Justme

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Hi Forum,

Some 400 posts ago raphe said this:

In my opinion, the Dome of the Rock is the abomination of desolation, Mohammed is the false prophet and Islam is the beast that brings on Armageddon.

What other religion hates Judah and Ephraim (Jewish & Christian believers) as much as Islam, what religion would think nothing of killing you if you do not convert to their way of thinking? What religion is bent on world domination?
Which religion wants to annihilate the Jewish people as well as Christians?
There are many false religions and cults, but Islam is the most dangerous of all! Islam is the ultimate anti-Messiah and operates in the spirit of the Anti-Messiah/Christ.
__________________
And answers raphe's question and says:
But yeah, the dome will come down for bible prophecy to be fulfilled. I don't really know how the dome can be seen as the abomination of desolation.
**********************************

Now Looksgood writes:
In fact in the current news section I posted about a wall that fell. I fully expect the dome to come down and make way for the temple to be built.

I agree with Hitch...what prophecy requires a future temple to be built?

How could we or people from Israel or anybody else SEE this abomination in the holy place today?

If by some miracle, somebody saw this appearance where would they flee to? and where would they flee from?

Can anybody point out the verse that says any new earthly trmple would be rebuilt? (Post Herod)

Justme
 
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Hitch

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looksgood said:
The same scripture that the others speak of as to the abomination of desolation.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This speaks of the actual man of sin, and he can be shown to be an actual person through the scriptures. In order for this to happen the temple must be rebuilt. Thus we may as well see this as a prophecy.
No you may not. there was a temple standing at the time of writing.

And you dont have a single passage that prophecys another temple. Wishful thinking is not a key to interpretation.

take care

Hitch
 
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HI to my enemy PC,
Sorry, seems I got you in a mess with books and colby by calling you friend. Hope this greeting helps.
______________________________________

My reply.

The name is Colbey and 66 Books not books, or colby. They are my sons and are not concerned as to what you call me or say about me, they know me too well for your many and continuing assumptions to be of any value.

_____________________________________

Quote.
PC feels he has been unfairly dealt with. If I read this all wrong PC I am sorry. I'll bring up what was said and people can give me the gears if I misunderstood you Okay.
___________________________________

My reply. I didn’t say that at all.
Can someone show me where I was supposed to have said that, I have been unfairly treated?

____________________________________
Justme said to me and quotes me.

"In the origonal post you said this:"

"Please note folks before I continue, I would like to bring your attention to where Satan builds his tabernacle, which is to be built on the mount at the sides of the North, as I said quoting the Bible from Matt 24 26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."


This is the very sound reason that I said those things.

Satan the counterfeit and counterfeit temple that will be built which by the way will be a replica of the original which includes secret chambers.

Isaiah 13:12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL ALSO SIT UPON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREAGATION, in the SIDES OF THE NORTH: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Now for the identification of the site where Satan’s.

Psalms 48:1. Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. 2Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is MOUNT ZION, on THE SIDES OF THE NORTH, the city of the great King. 3God is known in her palaces for a refuge

2 Chronicles 5:4.
And they brought up the ark, and THE TABERNACLE OF THE CONGREGATION, and all the holy vessels that were in the tabernacle, these did the priests and the Levites bring up.



___________________________________

The above Bible verses are part of why I said.
"The secret room is where they will say we should look for Christ."

"If the temple is a replica built by Satan at the time of the end spoken of by Daniel then the secret room will be where he sits."


So folks don’t go there because we know that Jesus will come in the clouds with great glory and power we won’t have to look for Him in any temple. He will find us.

Matt 13:26.
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

What have I done wrong, and why does Justme make such a BIG deal out of it?

Justme says that I want you to pay attention to these things when in fact it is Jesus that mentions them through Daniel, Matt, Luke and John.

________________________________

Justme said.
You want us to pay attention to where saton builds his tabernackle and you describe where it is.
Then you say IF ..THEN ....the secret room will be where he sits....
_____________________________
My reply.



It is Jesus that wants us all to know, so that we are forewarned, for it is Jesus Himself that says.

Matt 24:25.
Behold, I have told you before.

Matt 24:26.Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; BELIEVE NOT. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 
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My Brothers and Sisters in Christ who are my dear friends and my family and men that I respect that speak many languages such as Pastor J R Hoffman, Pastor Charles E Wheeling of the USA who are humble biblical scholars that have studied these biblical aspects over many years, speak of the secret chambers location.

Jesus speaks of it first, and associates it with the events just prior to His second coming!

We Have Jesus Himself, who is speaking of the short times prior and leading up to His second coming saying read Daniel and understand and in that context speaks of the abomination of desolation yet we have folk saying it’s all a done deal and Daniel’s prophecies were fulfilled back in 70AD or whenever. The prophecies of Daniel that were fulfilled are easily recognisable. But the prophecies mentioned by Jesus in relation to His second coming are tide up with the abomination of desolation and the time span of 1290 days that is given for the set up to last for in Daniel and no longer.

Example Daniel 12:11.
And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

For those that have to suffer this dreadful period of time, wait until a blessing is to be given

Daniel 12: 12Blessed he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Example. Of when it finishes is given by Daniel 12:7. And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

What I find appalling is the fact that Jesus Himself refers to these times of the abomination and desolation as concerning His second coming and yet people say No, that’s not right, it all happened way back in 70AD!!

Should I say nothing, so that I don’t risk offending the mainly big church members, those that think because the big membership numbers in a church means size is right in the word, therefore have the answers exclusively to everything biblical?

It only started with 120 in the upper room so don’t begrudge small beginnings. I have no doubt that there are those that I have never met, that read this and agree with these prophecies because they are in tune with Jesus and what He says.

If the 12 Disciples had taken that attitude of saying nothing and agreeing with the big church at that time, then where would we be.

The Disciples were attacked by those of big church.

For years the Catholic and Protestant religious fanatic members have also perpetrated those same crimes of killing in the name of God on Bible Christians, and it will intensify.

______________________________

These above Bible verses are some of the reasons as to why I asked Justme, if she/he knew where the secret chambers were which I thought would trigger a positive interest, instead as usual, it triggered a the negative response that was similar to that which followed the "bird thing!"

Justme’s Quote

In a post prior to this you asked me this:

Do you know where the secret chambers are? Get a copy of the Jerusalem Temple plans and you will see.
I'll leave this up to the readers. Sometimes we just can't see the tree for the forest and this can easily be what I'm doing. If I am then most assuredly I owe PC an apology and a beer, too.

______________________________

I am concerned for my Brothers and Sisters those that have just come to Christ as I did many years ago in my infancy of faith and knowledge, and I believe we are running out of time.

The prophecy clock is ticking and the countdown is starting in earnest as the pages of Daniel are very slowly being turned before our eyes it is Satan’s plan to twist and change the set times laid down by God, to try and deceive as many as he can by even changing God’s laws, when a new the covenant is signed in the midst of the week.

When the two witnesses are killed then raised 3 ½ days later in Jerusalem at trumpet seven it will be too late for those that see it happen because they will have been deceived.

Rev 11:12.
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Sadly it will be too late for them, even though they give glory to God, they should have had enough faith in God’s prophetic word which indeed is the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 11:13. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Satan is the counterfeit angel of light and his angels are coming as ministers of righteousness. It is going to be a dangerous time for everyone including those well versed in Bible.

We will be tested in the times of trouble like no other time, we can go along with the majority and try to save our necks, or stand firm for the truth Just as Daniel, and be rescued as faithful servants.

Matt 16:25
"For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."

Matt 24:24.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

How easy it will be for Satan to mislead those that are not wise.

2 Thessalonians 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2 Corinthians 11:14.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Daniel 12:3.
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

The lines are being drawn and many who love the traditions of their churches, the religious fundamentalists will eventually break God’s laws, just like the Pharisees and Sadducees did and Moslems do today to somehow try and prove their religion has "authority" and they are always negative to things they do not understand.

This why we are going to get the falling away first into apostasy, before Satan sits in the mount and puts himself up as the angel of light.

It is Jesus that mentions these things for those that want to listen.

Rev 12:9.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which DECEIVETH the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11And they overcame him by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB, and BY THE WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY; and THEY LOVED NOT THEIR LIVES UNTO DEATH.

So as far as someone telling me that somehow "I feel unfairly done by," that is an earthly argument which I have answered before, by saying, "it goes with the territory and I do not expect anything else."

Maranatha.

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Hi Pc,

I'm sure everyone except you did a quick search on your Pastors. I say that you probably didn't because you may have found this and decided not to post their names.
This was appaently taken from some of Charly's work. This was from an article written in 2002 I believe.

“Planet X will enter Earth’s orbit between May 15 and 30, 2003, and the earth will stand still for three days. Volcanoes all over the earth will erupt, along with multiple earthquakes, whereby two-thirds of earth’s population will be annihilated. Another 20% will starve to death during the next six months, for lack of sunlight; and volcanic ash will cover the earth.
******************************
So now I know why you have constantly brought up Daniel's book so much. I told you before and I'll tell you again. Anything that Daniel wrote has to agree with anything similiar in the NT. The NT is easier to understand.

You wrote:
Example. Of when it finishes is given by Daniel 12:7. And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
***************************

A man UPON the water you say, a man in linen you say, it would take 3 1/2 times from that time util He could scatter the power of the holy people you say. Sounds like Jesus UPON water saying His ministry would be about so many years
It would take that long to bring forth the alternative to the law, the alternative of Christianity.
Hey, or maybe not!!!

You wrote:
If the 12 Disciples had taken that attitude of saying nothing and agreeing with the big church at that time, then where would we be.

We would be studying the law, there would be no Christianity.

You copied:
Rev 11:12.And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Then you said this:
Sadly it will be too late for them, even though they give glory to God, they should have had enough faith in God’s prophetic word which indeed is the testimony of Jesus.

Whatever are you talking about?

Who did God say this to PC, who heard the great voice from Heaven in verse 12?
It's not hard, the answer is easy, in fact I explained it flat out to you once.

Who heard the great voice from Heaven? Why was it too late for them?

Justme
 
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Greetings 66 Books and Colbey, also greetings Looksgood.

THE TIME OF THE REBUILT TEMPLE.

The Temple is mentioned at the start of the two witnesses witnessing for 1260 days, at the end of that period they are killed by the beast and lie dead in Jerusalem for 3 ½ days, then at the resurrection of life at the second coming at trumpet number 7 at which the dead in Christ rise, including the two witnesses.

So there is, a rebuilt temple at the second coming!

Brother Looksgood, I see a few folk have ganged up on you very quickly and have asked you a question about the Temple being rebuilt and they insist that these prophecies are a done deal back thousands of years, somewhere around the original temple time.

Well this may be of interest to you as part of the answer.

This is for the serious Bible student, those that are reading, line upon line and precept upon precept.

I will keep it short!

THE TIME OF THE REBUILT TEMPLE is within 1260 days plus 3 ½ before the second coming at trumpet number 7!!!

The period within which all the prophecies of Daniel and also Revelation, are to fit within is stated very clearly in the following verses as being 2300 days, that’s about 6 and a bit years. By the way the translation should read "the place of the daily" so keep that in mind the word "sacrifice" was added so It has been removed.

Daniel 8:12.
And AN HOST was given AGAINST THE DAILY by reason of TRANSGRESSION, and it CAST DOWN THE TRUTH to the ground; and it practised, and PROSPERED. 13Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain which spake, HOW LONG THE VISION THE DAILY, AND THE TRANSGRESSION of DESOLATION, to give both the sanctuary and the HOST to be TRODDEN UNDER FOOT? 14And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; THEN shall the sanctuary be CLEANSED.

The Timing of 2300 evening and morning, means 6 and a bit years for all this vision to fit within. I will explain Dan 8 after this rebuilt temple study is finished.

When is Satan to be thrown out of Heaven and how long has he got to go after God’s people and scatter them?

3 ½ YEARS AND THAT’S IT folks Rev 12:12, and 14.

Rev 12:12.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because HE KNOWETH HE HATH BUT A SHORT TIME. 13And when THE DRAGON SAW that HE WAS CAST UNTO THE EARTH, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man. 14And to the WOMAN were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished FOR A TIME, AND TIMES, AND HALF A TIME, from the face of THE SERPENT.

Satan has hardly any time to pursue the woman at all but she is hidden from him for about 3 ½ years.

The woman depicts the Saints on Earth for the LAST 3 ½ years.

Rev 12:17.
And the DRAGON was WROTH with the woman, and went to make WAR with the REMNANT of her seed, which keep THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

What happens to God’s people for 3 ½ years, those that do keep the commandments of God?

Daniel 12:4.
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to THE TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to THE END OF THESE WONDERS? 7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a TIME, TIMES, AND AN HALF; and WHEN HE SHALL HAVE ACCOMPLISHED TO SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE, all THESE things SHALL BE FINISHED..

When the POWER of the holy people is scattered, then it’s is time up.

So how long can Satan be allowed to set up?

It must be within 3 ½ years.

Many will be purified made white and tried but for those that do NOT understand these visions? They are called "wicked."

Daniel 12:10.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and NONE OF THE WICKED SHALL UNDERSTAND; but the WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND.

Daniel names the event and time within which it must fit which is about 3 ½ years!

Dan 12:11 And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

There is nothing more Jews would like better, than to rebuild that temple!

Note that in verse 1 of Rev 11. John, is told to measure the temple.

Rev 11:2. John is told to leave out the outer court which is the place of the daily.

This was because it is to be given to the Gentiles for 42 months 3 ½ years to trample on the holy city in V 2.

The two witnesses who are at the temple where John is told to measure are killed after 1260 days by the beast and lie dead for 3 ½ days in Jerusalem, the fact that the two witnesses are raised at trumpet seven at The second coming is a clear indication that there is a temple during the tribulation period up to the second coming. AT THE TIME OF THE BEAST, WHO as we know IS KILLED AT THE SECOND COMING, Rev 19: 20 and in Daniel 7:11.

The rebuilt temple is standing to fulfill these prophecies in the future within 1260 days of the second coming as God’s people are scattered for 3 ½ years in Daniel 12:7.
Trumpet 7 is when the mystery of God is accomplished Rev 10;7.

God’s people are promised a blessing Dan 12: 12. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.



At the last trump second resurrection.

2 Thessalonians 4:16.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Here’s the promised blessing Rev 19:1.
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

The blessing is received in Rev 19:9
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.



So what do we have in short ?

We have a rebuilt temple within the 2300 evening and morning period of Daniel 8 12 to 14 the transgression of the daily and truth being thrown down, and the host and place of the daily being trodden underfoot the question asked "how long is the vision of these things going to last? Answer 2300 evening and morning until the sanctuary is cleansed.

6 and a bit years in all.

What time does this temple exist at and the outer court, and within what time period and at what event does this period end?

The temple is standing at the beginning of the 1260 days.

During the period of the two witnesses Jerusalem is trampled on for 42 months verse Rev 11: 2. Rev 11: 3 speaks of 1260 days, in Jerusalem

The two witnesses are killed by the beast at the end of 1260 days and 3 ½ days later they are resurrected verse 12, at the second coming at trumpet number 7 is blown, verse 15.

THE LAST TRUMP. 2 Thessalonians 4:16.

So the temple exists within 1260 plus 3 ½ days of the second coming!

The timing folks, that’s why Jesus, told Palmini, Gabriel, Daniel, and John in Revelation about the TIME!!!

Before I go try this Looksgood, if you want to separate the goats from the sheep.

As a test, as to who keeps the commands of God, just ask some of these churchly taught folk, what day is it that they attend church?

Bingo, you will see how they break the 4th commandment, by there answer of, Sunday.

Which is, by the way, the venerable day of the sun god.

Maranatha

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Palatka44

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PC said:
As a test, as to who keeps the commands of God, just ask some of these churchly taught folk, what day is it that they attend church?

Bingo, you will see how they break the 4th commandment, by there answer of, Sunday.

As to your words preceeding this statement I can understand your reasoning and am in much agreement. Post #405 and 406 are what I consider as good insights. However this statement confuses me.

PC said:
Which is, by the way, the venerable day of the sun god.


Though the calendar states that this day is "Sun"day the meaning of it is lost to us in this era of Christian dominance. To equate this day as the "venerable day of the sun god" is to remake it from the New Testament day of resurrection and then give it back to the "sun". Could it be said that when our Lord resurrected He put all things under Him including the "venerable day of the sun god"? What better way is there to honor God for what He has done through His Son than to worship the glorious resurrection day?

I must confess this though, I do not understand why there was not a consensus within the church to rename it as Resurrection Day. But then again I do understand that the Roman Catholic church had a hand in it's design. The Church had no power to remake the calendar of the state.

Acts 20:7
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


As we see, this became a new tradition of the disciples. As far as it breaking the law of remembering the Sabboth day, let us look further into scripture to find answers.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


In light of this verse why do you judge those of us that honor the resurrection day?


Your insights are good PC and I agree with most everything that you have posted keep up the study and God will bless all of us.
 
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Hi Pc,

I guess you missed a meeting concerning the building of a new temple. You see the new temple is in place at the time of the writing of Hebrews 9 and Jesus is in it.

Hebrews 9
11When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.

There is the whole verse, now I'll just take out the parts that explain the tabernacle...
11When Christ came... he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.

24For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence.

I wonder if I may ask:

1) Jesus is in a perfect temple as we speak, why would He want you to build another on earth?

2) How could any abomination get into the holy place if it is in Heaven next to the room Jesus is in?

2He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

If an abomination did get in this heavenly holy place how woulfd the people from Judea see it? Especially since Judea ceased to exist in 70 AD.

the following taken from the catholic encyclopedia....
it returned to the procurators until A. D. 66; and in A. D. 70 Judea disappeared as an individual district.

I guess I should also point out that when Jesus settles in to the 'new heavens and earth' there is no temple.

Rev 21
22I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

If the bible says there is going to be a temple built it must also be destroyed again, can you show me the verses that says this new built temple will be destroyed?

Where is this nasty abomination going to appear in any holy place????

Justme
 
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DANIEL 11. IS AT THE TIME OF THE 7 BOWLS OF THE WRATH OF GOD 7 TRUMPETS, 3 WOES, SECOND RESURRECTION, AND BIG EARTHQUAKE!!!

______________________________________

Concerning Daniel 12: 1 to 7.

Factoring in the, Time, the persons involved. also the events and their time spans.

Daniel 12:1the person involved in verse one, is the one and only Archangel, Michael.

If Justme knew who Michael was he/she would not get confused about the time.

He stands for Daniel’s people, Michael is called their Prince.

He stands in the time of trouble that Has never happened since there was a nation.

"EVERYONE" is delivered found written in the BOOK.

To understand the TIME we will look at another verse involving the Archangel Michael a little later.

The events concerned.

Resurrection time, people delivered.

Righteous raised up at the end of the tribulation also known as the "time of trouble" The resurrection of life that occurs at trumpet 7.

The seven trumpet and three woe period and seven bowls of the wrath of God period which finish with the earthquake.

So the time of Daniel’s vision is at the END and certainly NOT at or around the first century and to imply that, is just not biblical at all, but a forced rendering of it.

Daniel 12:1.
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVRY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

There is a lot more to this verse but I have to restrict it to home in Justme’s assumptions.

So we will just read from verse 1 to 7 to get the smaller picture and only some of the intent of those verses.

The intent of the question in verse six is essential in the understanding the clear answer in verse 7. Daniel listens as it is asked and the time span in which the vision occurs and also how long before these "wonders" will be finished is mentioned, and all the times are clearly numbered.

Daniel called them "wonders" because he didn’t have a clue as to what it all meant.

We are now told about the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation Which is obvious, even to a child that it is NOT at the period of Christ’s Earthly ministry!

Unless of course we have been indoctrinated and can’t think for ourselves and put millennium where it doesn’t belong and get confused.

Daniel 12:2And MANY OF THEM that SLEEP IN THE DUST of the earth shall AWAKE, some TO EVERLASTING LIFE, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Now we have looked at how many are to be influenced by the Holy Spirit at His outpouring in the "latter rain" in earlier posts and how He, the Spirit, will use God’s elected people in the last days to turn many to the Christ.

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even TO THE TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, HOW LONG shall it be to THE END OF THESE WONDERS?

Of course keeping with the intent of the Bible we know what the question involves.

Daniel 12:7. And I heard the man clothed IN LINEN, which was UPON THE WATER of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a TIME, TIMES, and an HALF; and when he shall have accomplished to SCATTER the power of the holy people, all these things shall be FINISHED.


So in verse one and two, and three Michael stands. Delivers His people at the time of trouble, "EVERYONE" which are those who are found written in the book of life, then we must not forget that the wise turn many to righteousness.

Verse 4 Daniel is told to seal up the book but knowledge of the book will occur at the time of the end. Verse 5 and 6 question, how long and when will the end of these wonders be? Verse 7. Jesus indicates a time span of 3 ½ years it takes to finally scatter God’s people then it’s all finished.



Michael does not deliver His people during Jesus’ Earthly ministry, as Justme would like us to believe. However the Bible says, "and AT THAT TIME thy PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE that shall be FOUND IN THE BOOK.

"EVERYONE that shall be found in the book?"

Justme must imply that "EVERYONE" was raised at Christs ministry of around 3 ½ years if as he/she claims it was a done deal back around 33AD.

No way! That’s not what the Bible says and is a twisting of it.

From a previous quote of mine that Justme did not understand.
If the 12 Disciples had taken that attitude of saying nothing and agreeing with the big church at that time, then where would we be?
Justme replied with a guess, a private interpretation, without Bible back up, it is therefore, counted as hearsay and I have not bothered with the answer he/she gave.


Rev 11:12.And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and THEIR ENEMIES BEHELD THEM.
13.
And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the THE REMNANT WER AFFRIGHTED, and GAVE GLORY TO GOD of heaven.


Sadly it will be too late for THEM, even though they give glory to God, they should have had enough faith in God’s prophetic word which indeed is the testimony of Jesus.
A question from Justme.
"Whatever are you talking about?"

Obviously, a lot more than Justme can grasp.

It should be transparently clear folks, I’m speaking of those left behind on Earth, the "remnant" those looking up at the resurrection of life taking place as the two witnesses are being raised. They that are left, and are struck with fear, the righteous on the other hand are overjoyed. Yeah!!!

The wicked, who are not being raised with the righteous are left. So it’s too late for the wicked left behind, they miss out.

I do wonder sometimes at the belabouring of points that I have to make to try and get the "church indoctrinated" to somehow see what the Bible says.

Verse 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Verse 11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great FEAR FELL UPON THEM THAT SAW THEM.

At the seventh trumpet the voice of the one and only Archangel’s voice is mentioned.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the LORD HIMSELF shall descend from heaven with a shout, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, and WITH THE TRUMP of God: and THE DEAD in Christ shall RISE FIRST:

Now let’s read Daniel 12: and tie it all in.

The above verse has everything to do with the next.

Daniel 12:1.
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that SAME time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVRY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.



The tribulation period comes to an end at trumpet seven and after woe three.
Rev 11 Verse 14.
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15And the SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

At the seventh trump the dead in Christ shall rise. The two witnesses are raised and their enemies look on in fear, as they are left behind. And so they pray but it’s too late they missed the resurrection of life.

Were the enemies of the two witnesses raised? NO of course not, they will miss out!

LEFT BEHIND FOR THE BIRDS FOLKS.

Rev 11:18. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD unto thy SERVANTS the PROPHETS, and to the SAINTS, and THEM that fear thy name, SMALL and GREAT; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The REWARD is brought with Jesus at His second coming because He said so,

Rev 22:12.
And, behold, I come quickly; and MY REWARD is WITH ME, to GIVE EVERY MAN according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14BLESSED are THEY that do his commandments, that they may HAVE RIGHT to the TREE OF LIFE, and may enter in through the gates INTO THE CITY.

The remnant will be put to the sword and left for the birds Rev 19;21. And the REMNANT were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown.

__________________________________



 
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Justme

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Hi Prophecy,

You wrote:
So the time of Daniel’s vision is at the END and certainly NOT at or around the first century and to imply that, is just not biblical at all, but a forced rendering of it.
*********************

The end of what? Do you equate this 'end' with the last days? or end times? Or whatever?

Youwrote:

"EVERYONE" is delivered found written in the BOOK.
************************
Yes, everyone whose name appears in the book of life will be raised to righteousness. Remember there is only one book of life.

You wrote:
Righteous raised up at the end of the tribulation also known as the "time of trouble" The resurrection of life that occurs at trumpet 7.
**************
Well, the time of the great tribulation, time of wrath, or time of trouble, whether it is at the end of that time I don't know and don't care.
And yes the 7th trumpet symbolizes the raising of people.

You wrote:
There is a lot more to this verse but I have to restrict it to home in Justme’s assumptions.
********************************
Yes there is some more to the verse, well chapter actually, this:
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt..

When will this happen? Well, really!!!!!the answer is right in the verse I quoted and spelled out twice in the verses before it. It's extremely difficult to believe that some people choose not to accept that.

You wrote:
Daniel called them "wonders" because he didn’t have a clue as to what it all meant.
*********************

There are those who still don't.

You wrote:
We are now told about the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation Which is obvious, even to a child that it is NOT at the period of Christ’s Earthly ministry!
*********************
I and others have pointed out countless biblical examples and biblical proof that clearly places these righteous and these ****** being dealt with at the same time. These are NOT the righteous of the biblical first resurrection of Rev 20, these are those who sleep in the dust such as Daniel.
I am going to look into the beliefs of your religious group and find out why it matters. It obviously means a great deal to you that they are at different times. It obviously means a great deal to you to have the 1000 year reign with Christ to be after parousia and on earth. Biblically speaking, that ain't gonna happen.

You wrote:
Now we have looked at how many are to be influenced by the Holy Spirit at His outpouring in the "latter rain" in earlier posts and how He, the Spirit, will use God’s elected people in the last days to turn many to the Christ.
*******************************
Here is this 'latter rain' stuff. I wonder if you would tell me what you think this means. Could you use James 5:7 in your explanation.
KJV
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and LATTER RAIN.
NIV
7Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains.

You quoted this verse:
6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, HOW LONG shall it be to THE END OF THESE WONDERS?

Who do you know or have read about who can walk on water?

You wrote:
Justme must imply that "EVERYONE" was raised at Christs ministry of around 3 ½ years if as he/she claims it was a done deal back around 33AD.
*******************************

I argued that no one was 'resurrected' in 33 AD other than Jesus Christ. It was you that brought up some saints of Matthew 27.

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

What goes on here PC, what are tryiing to pull?
Here from post #212 on Aug 19 is PC with his foot in his mouth.........

The righteous dead are raised first one group at His resurrection and the rest of the Saints are raised first then the living are changed and caught up with Him at His second coming, long before the wicked are raised.
That is what I meant by the dead being raised first.
This is what I said.
“Show me in the Bible, where it says the condemned and saved come up together at exactly the same time, as you propose?”

“Some of those that are a part of the resurrection to life HAVE BEEN RAISED ALREADY, so whose assuming?”
***************************************
So it was you that said it. I remember getting sick of proving to you that they were not true resurrections and saying .OKAY, for the sake of argument include then=m if you want , but you are still wrong.

However, it appears we are straightening out some of your misconceptions. At least now you know Matthew 27:52 is NOT talking about a true resurrection of the dead to the 'living.'

“Matt 27:50. At once the curtain in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, and rocks split apart. 52 Graves opened, and MANY of God’s people were raised to life. 53 They left their graves, and after Jesus had risen to life, they went into the holy city, where they were seen by many people.”

You wrote:
From a previous quote of mine that Justme did not understand.
If the 12 Disciples had taken that attitude of saying nothing and agreeing with the big church at that time, then where would we be?
Justme replied with a guess, a private interpretation, without Bible back up, it is therefore, counted as hearsay and I have not bothered with the answer he/she gave.
**************************
No, PC I uderstand quite good most of the time...

Again here is what I did say:
We would be studying the law, there would be no Christianity.
*****************************

You see these guys were in the process of ESTABLISHING christianity in the world. Those who worked against them weren't christians at all, but promoters of the law.

You wrote:
It should be transparently clear folks, I’m speaking of those left behind on Earth, the "remnant" those looking up at the resurrection of life taking place as the two witnesses are being raised. They that are left, and are struck with fear, the righteous on the other hand are overjoyed. Yeah!!!

However, you unfortunately wrote this:
Righteous raised up at the end of the tribulation also known as the "time of trouble" The resurrection of life that occurs at trumpet 7.
***************************
Those two witnesses did their thing at the beginning of the great tribulation.
Before it started the woeing had just got giong even. As the great tribulation gets underway THE RIGHTEOUS AREN'T EVEN THERE!!!!!!!!!They fled Judea when they saw the abomination standing in the holy place.

I don't think I can recall anything you have ever got right!!!!!!!!Oh, yes, now you know that Matthew 27:52 is NOT discussing a true resurrection of the dead.

You wrote:
The tribulation period comes to an end at trumpet seven and after woe three.
Re-read Rev 11.

You quoted:
Verse 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

What city might this have been?

You wrote:
At the seventh trump the dead in Christ shall rise.

Yes, they will, Daniel is one of them.

Here is more of that paragraph:
The two witnesses are raised and their enemies look on in fear, as they are left behind. And so they pray but it’s too late they missed the resurrection of life.

Yes, those in that city would be in fear...there is a great tribulation coming, they are going to get it...big time ..why wouldn't they be in fear. They are left behind ..left behind alright...they are flat out killed or taken into captivity. AND yes the birds would gather where the carcasses were. Carcasses, I mean, their spirits had returned to the God that gave it. Who knows, maybe they get lucky and don't have to do the backstroke in the sulfur lake. What did you think this great time of distress was going to be? You next quote a verse that explains it.. Rev 11:18. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD unto thy SERVANTS the PROPHETS, and to the SAINTS, and THEM that fear thy name, SMALL and GREAT; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
You said:
The remnant will be put to the sword and left for the birds Rev 19;21. And the REMNANT were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
****************************

Exactly.

Justme
 
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Prophecy Countdown

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J quote
I guess you missed a meeting concerning the building of a new temple. You see the new temple is in place at the time of the writing of Hebrews 9 and Jesus is in it.
___________________________________
No! Folks, I have NOT missed the building meeting.
I have just been recording the minutes from it.

I also just looked at the building plans actually they are quite extensive!



YES folks, one building permit found numbered DAN 11:45 for a tabernacle, to be built on site in situ.

Site address named, the glorious holy mountain at the sides of the north

Also referred to as the mount of the congregation.

The claimed owner, a Mr Satan will come to his end.

The present occupiers like to blow up none club members and like rock,,, I mean rock backwards and forwards chanting, reading and clutching beads.

Proposed building application and location fee as follows.

Fee for building approval. Sum total, Death for the builder.

Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Timing folks we all know when Satan is done for and none come to help him in the pit, HE SHOULD HAVE CHECKED THE NAME ON THE DEEDS ON THE Land before building!!!!!! Yeah!!!!

____________________________________

J quote.

I wonder if I may ask:
1) Jesus is in a perfect temple as we speak, why would He want you to build another on earth?
____________________________________
PC

Hello! Why would he want "ME," "ME!" To build it on Earth? Well Folks here’s another tricky question that will take the bible two seconds to give an answer to, lets see now.

Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

O dear, it is Mr Satan who wants to build the temple not Jesus, The Bible book that makes it so very clear. Someone got their paper work messed up on who the builder was, good thing I checked. I thought it was "ME" for a terrible second,, gulp!

___________________________________

Now for the next riveting question.

J quote

2) How could any abomination get into the holy place if it is in Heaven next to the room Jesus is in?
___________________________________

PC

O dear me, questions based on preconceived ideas about the wrong temple at the Wrong place.

Whereabouts does SATAN plant his tabernacle?

Answer in short, LUCIFER wants to build it ON EARTH!!

I will highlight the paperwork in capitals concerning building site and conditions.

Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas IN THE GLORIOUS HOLY MOUNTAIN; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

This does NOT concern the heavenly sanctuary ,,, in Heaven. Only the one to be rebuilt on the mount. So what does that question have to do with the price of eggs. Ladies and gentlemen? This is getting worse!! Absolutely! Nothing!!!

Next please, let’s keep it moving!!! Yeah!!!

___________________________________

J quote.

If an abomination did get in this heavenly holy place how woulfd the people from Judea see it? Especially since Judea ceased to exist in 70 AD.
____________________________________
This is a very good question. How would people see it from Judea?

___________________________________

Ooooh,,, well ,,,, ooooh,,, they ,,aaaah,,,, would not.

Yeah!! That was difficult but we got there.

It’s a good thing that this "to be rebuilt Earthly temple isn’t anything to do with the Temple in Heaven, isn’t it!

So where is it to be built so that the people in or around Judea now called whatever or something can see it happen?

Let me take a wild guess,,, aaaaa,,,, aaaaa ,,,, Mount Zion?

Yes your answer was correct let’s see the paperwork.

The abomination sits on the mount at the sides of the North on Earth.

So the question folks is null and void about the Heavenly sanctuary which has nothing to do with the rebuilt temple..

Daniel 11:45. And HE SHALL PLANT THE TABERNACLE of his palace between the seas IN THE GLORIOUS HOLY MOUNTAIN; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Proposed building plot for Satan’s tabernacle identification papers.

Psalm 48:2.
Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the MOUNTAIN of his holiness. 2BEATIFUL for SITUATION, the JOY of the WHOLE EARTH, is MOUNT ZION, on the SIDES OF THE NORTH, the CITY of the great King.

Name of proposed builder and temporary tenant, Mr. Lucifer, alias Satan, Dragon, Devil.

Isaiah 14: 12.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL SIT ALSO UPON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH:

Matt 24:15.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

So I don’t care where the people see it from or what it is called or what part around mount Zion, but the advice is serious Jesus says it Himself "FLEE to the mountains."

____________________________________

J quote.

I guess I should also point out that when Jesus settles in to the 'new heavens and earth' there is no temple.
___________________________________

J quote.
If the bible says there is going to be a temple built it must also be destroyed again, can you show me the verses that says this new built temple will be destroyed?
____________________________________
PC YEAH!!!

Rev 20:11.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH and the heaven FLED AWAY; and THERE WAS FOUND NO PLACE FOR THEM.

All gone Kaput!!! POP!! Whoosh!!! Good riddance.

______________________________________

J quote

Where is this nasty abomination going to appear in any holy place????
______________________________________-

Isaiah 14: 12.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL SIT ALSO UPON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH:

The "nasty abomination" and let’s not forget, what the children call the abomination, "Da ‘nasty’ ‘nasty’ naughty, naughty, abomination fing" is going to plant himself UPON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH:

 
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Linda8

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Prophecy Countdown said:
J quote
I guess you missed a meeting concerning the building of a new temple. You see the new temple is in place at the time of the writing of Hebrews 9 and Jesus is in it.
___________________________________
No! Folks, I have NOT missed the building meeting.
I have just been recording the minutes from it.

I also just looked at the building plans actually they are quite extensive!



YES folks, one building permit found numbered DAN 11:45 for a tabernacle, to be built on site in situ.

Site address named, the glorious holy mountain at the sides of the north

Also referred to as the mount of the congregation.

The claimed owner, a Mr Satan will come to his end.

The present occupiers like to blow up none club members and like rock,,, I mean rock backwards and forwards chanting, reading and clutching beads.

Proposed building application and location fee as follows.

Fee for building approval. Sum total, Death for the builder.

Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Timing folks we all know when Satan is done for and none come to help him in the pit, HE SHOULD HAVE CHECKED THE NAME ON THE DEEDS ON THE Land before building!!!!!! Yeah!!!!

____________________________________

J quote.

I wonder if I may ask:
1) Jesus is in a perfect temple as we speak, why would He want you to build another on earth?
____________________________________
PC

Hello! Why would he want "ME," "ME!" To build it on Earth? Well Folks here’s another tricky question that will take the bible two seconds to give an answer to, lets see now.

Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

O dear, it is Mr Satan who wants to build the temple not Jesus, The Bible book that makes it so very clear. Someone got their paper work messed up on who the builder was, good thing I checked. I thought it was "ME" for a terrible second,, gulp!

___________________________________

Now for the next riveting question.

J quote

2) How could any abomination get into the holy place if it is in Heaven next to the room Jesus is in?
___________________________________

PC

O dear me, questions based on preconceived ideas about the wrong temple at the Wrong place.

Whereabouts does SATAN plant his tabernacle?

Answer in short, LUCIFER wants to build it ON EARTH!!

Prophecy Countdown,

The TEMPLE IS A HOLY ONE CALLED THE TEMPLE OF GOD not called the Temple of Lucifer or temple of Satan

Let us read the exact words from the Bible

2 THESSALONIANS 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the TEMPLE OF GOD :rolleyes: shewing himself that he is God.

You are wrong for it is not CALLED THE TEMPLE OF SATAN.
 
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Justme

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Hi PC or whoever is filling in for you,
'You wrote:
The "nasty abomination" and let’s not forget, what the children call the abomination, "Da ‘nasty’ ‘nasty’ naughty, naughty, abomination fing" is going to plant himself UPON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH:

Actually no it doesn't the abomination appears in the holyplace and when the friends of Jesus see it they flee from Judea. All your stuff about the north side is unnecessary. Who needs it? the bible is crysal clear concerning the abomination.

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Then before you drag us thru another 10 miles of Daniel why not explain the parallel verse in Luke just for fun?

20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

C'mon Pc you can do it!!!!

Justme
 
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ikester

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gee..to simply say...the jews do not believe jesus as their messiah...therefore they are seeking to rebuild the temple as to resume their worship.....but currently the opposition with the muslims and the dome of the rock is a stumbling block...at some point...in the near future...a world leader will arise on the scene with a solution to peace in the middle east and a resolution to the building of the temple....he will make a seven year covenant with the jews...at some point during the seven year covenant...this leader will enter the temple and declare himself god...he will stop the scarificing and demand the whole world including the jews to worship him ....that's when they are to skip town...get out...flee...........those that believe in jesus have no need to build a temple....christ died for our sins once and for all....
 
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Prophecy Countdown

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Palatka44 said:
As to your words preceeding this statement I can understand your reasoning and am in much agreement. Post #405 and 406 are what I consider as good insights. However this statement confuses me.




Though the calendar states that this day is "Sun"day the meaning of it is lost to us in this era of Christian dominance. To equate this day as the "venerable day of the sun god" is to remake it from the New Testament day of resurrection and then give it back to the "sun". Could it be said that when our Lord resurrected He put all things under Him including the "venerable day of the sun god"? What better way is there to honor God for what He has done through His Son than to worship the glorious resurrection day?

I must confess this though, I do not understand why there was not a consensus within the church to rename it as Resurrection Day. But then again I do understand that the Roman Catholic church had a hand in it's design. The Church had no power to remake the calendar of the state.

Acts 20:7
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


As we see, this became a new tradition of the disciples. As far as it breaking the law of remembering the Sabboth day, let us look further into scripture to find answers.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


In light of this verse why do you judge those of us that honor the resurrection day?


Your insights are good PC and I agree with most everything that you have posted keep up the study and God will bless all of us.


Greetings, Palatka.

If I may I would like to answer each of your questions and apply my reasoning, I would like to use the Bible from a different perspective to show why I think the way I do.

I hope that this will seem reasonable to you, please let me explain.

As a Westerner I can see both sides of the debate and see the logic of your well put points and I thank you for them.

This is not as it may seem, a simple cut and dry issue, so with that in mind I want to put forward a "Western Christian" type of thinking and reasoning and compare that to a Christian Jewish type of thinking and reasoning when it comes to understanding the Bible.

The differences are startling. So much so that the very reasoning that some Westerners use, can be based on assumptions regardless of good and well meaning intentions and I don’t mean to be discourteous to my fellow Westerners by saying that, or to you.

I am a Westerner, so I am allowed to state that last remark,, I hope without infuriating anyone.

When the Jews read the Bible they read about themselves. When we read the Bible, we read about them, but we are mentioned when we have, as Gentiles a connection with Israel, whether for good or bad reasons historically or prophetically.

So, as Westerners we have our traditions just as the Jew, however I would like to remind you and myself for that matter that the Bible is a Jewish Book.

It is about Jewish history, traditions, law, and customs based on Mosaic law and the ten commandments and of the "TIME," periods involved with those traditions and prophetic eschatological events.

So from that understanding and basis I will start and try to reason my points.

_________________________________

Palatka your quote:

However this statement confuses me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by: PC



Which is, by the way, the venerable day of the sun god

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I agree that there is now a different regard for Sunday from that originally observed.

Also, I can respect those who are worshipping God from that standpoint.



So you may wonder why it is I make a mention of Sunday on this thread. If you are wondering that, and I can only guess, I will give you the answers that leads us straight to the Abomination and desolation that sits where he ought not.

I will do this without pointing a guilt or judgmental finger at any one who keeps Sunday. That is a solemn promise if you bear with me on this till it’s finished.

But let me back track and start with answering your questions from a Jewish Christian perspective.

_________________________________

Palatka your quote:

I must confess this though, I do not understand why there was not a consensus within the church to rename it as Resurrection Day. But then again I do understand that the Roman Catholic church had a hand in it's design.

Well, unfortunately it did have a hand in it, but the sad thing is the church persists with and keeps these changes today. And yes, I agree about the renaming of Sunday to that of "resurrection day."

Now, please I’m just stating the facts and leaving it up to you to see it from another perspective and I am not attacking members of the Catholic church of which many, are my dear friends.

Firstly historic origins of SUNDAY.

Constantine I (the Great) (Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus) (c. AD 274-337), Roman emperor (324-37). He adopted Christian symbols for his battle standards in 312 prompted by a 'vision' of the sign of the cross in the rays of the sun. In the following year he proclaimed tolerance and recognition of Christianity in the 'Edict' of Milan. Although his own beliefs are uncertain he supported orthodox Christianity in an attempt to maintain the unity of the vast Roman empire. Sunday was declared a holiday in 326. He and his mother Helena took great interest in the Christian sites of Rome and Palestine. Basilicas were built on the site of the stable-cave in Bethlehem, where Jesus Christ was supposed to have been born, his alleged tomb in Jerusalem, and St Peter's grave on the Vatican hill in Rome, and at Constantinople (St Sophia). The Eastern Church lists him as a saint.



Now Palatka, that seems harmless enough until I see what laws had been moved around and even removed which makes me a little uncomfortable with it and as a once Sunday worshipper I decided to have a look at it.

Now I am not being judgmental I’m just stating the facts.

In the Roman catholic catechisms the commandment number 2 Has been removed entirely Which states the following.

Exodus 20: 4. Following Thou shalt NOT make unto thee any GRAVEN IMAGE, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt NOT BOW DOWN thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And SHEWING MERCY unto thousands of them that LOVE ME, and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

So I went to see for myself in my friends church and get and find members touching and bowing and even praying to the deceased Mary mother of Jesus and dead Saints.

I see statues bleeding blood from their eyes and people believe it a miracle.

I’ve seen the stigmata on women and I ask to what point?

There are those that whip their backs crawl up steps whilst bleeding from their knees.

So what does it do to forget just one law of God to intelligent human beings? It makes them bow down to bits of wood, stone, plastic dead people and bingo even their dignity is taken from them and they don’t even know it.

It makes you want to weep for these poor souls.



Now it’s not P C saying it, it is our Master telling us DON’T DO IT! "I’m a jealous God." HE doesn’t like us doing it, it’s upsetting to Him.

The commandment was reduced to this Quote "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me."

I then came to read where the second, commandment had been shortened and removed from second place to place three in the Catechisms. Now after my experience with what happened when the other Commandment was removed I am becoming wary to say the least

"Remember though keep holy the Sabbath day."

Now that seems all right until we read the full statement.

 
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Exodus 20: 8. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God: thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.





The first word used is "remember," and we have forgotten it.

Jesus said. Matt 7: 17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.





Most Sunday worshippers refer to the Sabbath as the "Jewish Sabbath" Which is not the case at all, seeing as it was made at the time of creation and first kept by Christ Himself. It was made long before Abraham an Amorite and Sarah a Hittite, parents of the nation of Israel.

Ezekiel 16;1.
Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.



Jesus wrote them all down for us personally on stone. in fact He did it twice when Moses broke the commandment tablets, after seeing what went on in the camp whilst being away and as he returned from the mount.

Exodus 31;18.
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Leviticus 23: 3.
Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Rev 1:10.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

The law condemns us to death, but the grace and mercy of Christ saves us from the law, so does that mean we can just not bother trying to keep the commandments?

Romans 3:31. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

As I said, human and earthly reasoning will always be used to try and justify Sunday worship, and as an unforeseen consequence, the true Sabbath is forgotten and is consigned as just another working day.

John 14:15.
IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP my commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matthew 22:35
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, and with all thy SOUL, and with all thy MIND.38This is the FIRST AND GREAT COMMANDMENT.

The reasons given as to why the Sabbath day was ignored instead of remembered is quite evident from historical documentation.

Constantine wanted a cohesive and united empire he brought pagans into the church and as a result, we end up with pagan rituals, with Christians following them.

John 14: 15, Matt 22:35. Are just two reason of many that I choose to keep His commands as best I can.

_________________________________________

quote.

The Church had no power to remake the calendar of the state.

Well actually it did to a reasonable extent.

Gregorian calendar, the modified calendar, also known as the 'New Style', introduced by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582. It is a modification of the Julian calendar and is now in use throughout most of the Christian world. The Gregorian calendar adapted the Julian calendar to bring it into closer conformity with astronomical data and to correct errors which had accumulated because the Julian year of 365.25 days was 11 minutes 10 seconds too long. Ten days were suppressed in 1582 and, to prevent further displacement, Gregory provided that of the centenary years (1600, 1700, etc.) only those exactly divisible by 400 should be counted as leap years. The Gregorian calendar was adopted in Great Britain in 1752 by which time eleven days needed to be suppressed.

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quote.

Though the calendar states that this day is "Sun"day the meaning of it is lost to us in this era of Christian dominance. To equate this day as the "venerable day of the sun god" is to remake it from the New Testament day of resurrection and then give it back to the "sun". Could it be said that when our Lord resurrected He put all things under Him including the "venerable day of the sun god"? What better way is there to honor God for what He has done through His Son than to worship the glorious resurrection day?

The issue is what was lost, It was the true Sabbath that was ignored as a result of this change, one of God’s laws, a sign between Jesus and His people, apart from the 2nd graven image law.

Why would anyone swap a rest day for a resurrection day that argument was put way after the real reason to cover it up the Sun god issue.

That in itself is deceitful.

Does Sunday worship enhance God’s sabbath law?

Heb 4:4.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

THE TIME.

As we get closer to the time of the end as Daniel’s prophetic pages are slowly being turned, it will become an issue. The great Satanic plan is to change God’s laws.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak words AGAINST THE MOST HIGH, and shall WEAR OUT THE SAINTS of the most High, and THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS: and they shall be given into his hand until a TIME and TIMES and the DIVIDING OF TIME.

Being identified as the enemy this man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

2 Thessalonians 2:3

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is what he does when he sits for 1290 days in the rebuilt temple.

Dan 9:27.
And he shall CONFIRM A COVENANT with many for one week: and IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Many of God’s people are going be warn out and killed along with the two witnesses and Lucifer will change the times and laws. In the middle of the week and the two witnesses will be left for 3 ½ days in Jerusalem dead in the street, and half a week later, raised at trumpet seven which is at the end of the tribulation period.

MONEY.

As Pastor J Reynolds Hoffman said, "you control the pocket, you control the man."

America’s war of independence sent the French frank to the floor as a price she paid for her financial support.

Napoleon came along and offered economic prosperity but at the cost of individual freedom. Persecution with "Madam guillotine."

Disaster and war.

First world war sent the German mark in the same direction, you needed a wheel barrow full to buy a loaf of bread. Gemany after having to pay damages to other countries, was flat broke.

Adolf Hitler came along and said "hail" I have the economic answers, he offered economic prosperity. VWs were built on a mass scale large government projects were started. The states authority and needs were placed above and over that of the individuals, helping them to decide was the SS breathing down their necks, freedom was the price they paid for short economic prosperity. Persecution of the Jews followed.

Disaster, war.

If the religious fundamentalists turn OFF the oil in the troublesome Middle East, we are going to have an economic recession over night, of the likes and magnitude that has never been experienced.

Now if people don’t think that they would sign an agreement giving up their rights to keep up their living standards, then look at history.

They will turn off your water electricity and we have seen what happens to everyday life when that happens in the cities, bedlam!

When I read Daniel 11 and see the vision of war and who it will involve it is going to be a dreadful time of trouble and just as the Jews were blamed for the problems of Germany before the war, God’s people are going to cop the same.

Oil is the life blood of every industrial country and we are going to find that out the hard way.

They’re using oil like it’s going to last forever and are not looking for alternative sources of energy with any intensity or urgency required and we are left wide open for Lucifer’s take over.

Rev 13:17.
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17And that NO MAN MIGHT BUY OR SELL, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Who are those that are to be persecuted?

Rev 12:17. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and HAVE THE TSTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

We need the latter rain abundantly. James 5:7.
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

This is the sort of thing that will go on and we must know our Bible to be a force for truth.

2 Cor 11:14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
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I would like to mention a few things about Paul.

Firstly his attitude toward God’s ten commandments.

Romans 3:31. Do we then make VOID THE LAW through FAITH? GOD FORBID: yea, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

Col 2:8.
BEWARE lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Having done that we can see the attitude of Paul towards the law. Now we have to look at the historic period in which these verses were written, which were around 300 years before Sunday worship became an issue in 326 AD. Not only that but we are going to look at what Sabbaths the, Jews were discussing seeing as Sunday was not on the menu.

Now lets reason as a Jew and not a Westerner and our time system which was not on the menu either.

Acts 20:7. "And upon the first day of the week," {Sunday} when the disciples came together to break bread," { every day occurrence} "Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." {Monday}

Night fall ends with sundown on Sunday, Monday begins at that time Paul continues to preache late into Monday.

From sunset, the second day of the week started.

So we have two days to choose from, Sunday and Monday.

Meetings on any day does NOT constitute the changing of God’s law which did not happen Paul never ever suggests that in his writings, in fact the opposite is the case.

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Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Quote

As we see, this became a new tradition of the disciples. As far as it breaking the law of remembering the Sabbath day, let us look further into scripture to find answers.

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PC

That is not quite so as Paul would never have considered such a thing as he has stated that we should "uphold the law."


______________________________

quote.

Colossians 2:16-17

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

In light of this verse why do you judge those of us that honor the resurrection day?

__________________________

PC

With Respect ,Paul was speaking of meat sacrificed to pagan gods 1 Cor 8:7. and the effect that that would have on a weak person in faith but for the strong in faith if they ate it, it would not be a problem therefore don’t make judgements about it. However if it may cause a brother to stumble don’t do it.

1 Cor 8:9. 9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Now for the holidays.

Jewish holidays like the Passover 7 years, Day of Atonement 1260 to Passover Matt 26: 17 Passover of unleavened bread. Jubilee. 7 X 7 Passovers + 49 years many, other holidays, were governed by the moonth or MONTH NEW MOON. That is why the "new moon" is mentioned in relationship to these holidays. So all these mention are under the celestial system of time

Col 2:16, Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holiday, or OF THE NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH:

Now how would a Gentile figure that out?

A Jew would know,, but,, not a Gentile,, eccept me of course otherwise there would be a blank space in this spot.

You have most probably noticed I haven’t included the weekly Sabbath in regards Col 2:16.

The reason is that the Sabbath is not governed by the moonth or month new moon etc, So from careful reading of that passage we must conclude it was referring to all the other Sabbaths and not the weekly Sabbath.

The Sabbath is the only holiday that is not governed by the other celestial bodies but governed only by the rotation of the Earth and is independent of the celestial system as such.

______________________________

Your insights are good PC and I agree with most everything that you have posted keep up the study and God will bless all of us.

The center text of the King James Version. Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man .

_______________________________

Thank you for your kind words.

I hope this has been of some help to you.

If you would like to know how the Father will change seasons near the time of the end, and how the stars fall I may be of some help on the subject which explain the hour day month year of rescue and why only the Father knows those times because He did something to change our orbit to elliptical and we can’t work out the second coming time table.

It is from reading the Bible slowly and carefully and blew me away when reading about it. The Almighty is simply Brilliant.

Daniel 2:20. Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: 21And HE CHANGETH THE TIMES and THE SEASONS: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: 22He REVEALETH THE DEEP AND SECRET THINGS: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

May God bless you Palatka and may I thank you for asking me those questions, it makes me study the word of God, I’m sorry for taking so long but finding these things is not easy, it takes a bit of research, prayer and pleading.

Also. it is pleasing not to get a negative response for a change, but that goes with the territory I suppose.

If I seem judgmental then I apologies to you, but sometimes I fear we are running out of time and getting this message out is hard work and although it’s no excuse I do tend to get a bit short when I’ve been sitting here non stop for 15 to 18 hours.

Maranatha.

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