Prophecy Countdown.
a question for you. . .
You quote Matt above to prove your 'time' if one is taken is not the other left at the very time one is taken?
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Abomination of desolation
- Thread starter Rafael
- Start date
- Status
Prophecy Countdown.
a question for you. . .
You quote Matt above to prove your 'time' if one is taken is not the other left at the very time one is taken?
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Hi Justme.Justme said:
What a confusing muddle you are making of this by ignoring slabs of the Bible.
I keep telling you Justme "timing."
=== ======= ========
You said
One long last look at this resurrection deal.
The bible on- line uses the following heading for the great white throne judgment.
The Dead Are Judged REV 20
Not the unrighteous dead or the righteous dead...just the dead.
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it......
======== ===== =====
You seem to have forgotten Justme, verse 4. Judgement is given to the RIGHTEOUS, RESURRECTED. The Bible even mentions the fact that they have gone through the TRIBULATION PERIOD which concerns the mark of the beast 666. After going through that period they are Raised at the end of the tribulation. When the dead and living IN CHRIST are caught up together.
1 Cor 15:52.In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The above concerns the righteous only. There is no way the wicked are to be raised incorruptible.
The "good guys" get to judge the wicked dead guys, who remain dead for the 1000 years. These Good people have gone through the tribulation which is BEFORE the 1000 years starts and ends at His second coming.
Rev 20:4.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDG,EMT was GIVEN unto THEM: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which HAD NOT WORSHIPPED the BEAST, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they LIVED and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The FIRST RESURRECTION IS NOW COMPLETED.
As for the wicked, they remain dead
5. But THE REST of the dead lived not again UNTIL the thousand years were FINISHED.
--------- -------- --------
As for the righteous raised, they have their reward.
"This is the first resurrection. 6BLESSED and HOLY is he that HATH A PART in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall REIGN WITH HIM a thousand years."
Now for the wicked.
7. And when the thousand years are EXPIRED, Satan shall be LOOSED out of his prison,
So who make up the nations after the 1000 years? 5. But THE REST of the dead lived not again UNTIL the thousand years were FINISHED.
After the thousand years, Satan is released to deceive them that are raised after the same thousand years.
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog andMagog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD out of heaven, and DEVOURED THEM. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
1 Corinthians 15:25. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The LAST ENEMY that shall be destroyed is DEATH.
So we have now seen that the first resurrection of life has been completed and that those raised at the resurrection of life are given judgement during the millennium. After the thousand years Satan is released to deceive those that "lived not until after the 1000 years, where they are to be destroyed.
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Justme, You said
"John saw this in his vision. First we note John saw the great white throne...
12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne,
Next we note John saw the dead standing before the throne.. not the righteous dead, nor the unrighteous dead...just the dead and books were opened."
===== ======= ========
My reply.
Justme, you can’t ignore the fact that the righteous have already been raised and JUDGEMENT WAS GIVEN TO THEM IN VERSE 4, to judge the wicked and the sentence was carried out in verse 9, 10, after the thousand years and after the wicked were destroyed we have the record of judgement.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
=== ========= ==========
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: and ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS the book OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their works.
Justme’s, you said.
"The above wasn't the book of life..because..Another book was opened, which is the book of life. Singular ...one book..."
"The dead were judged., not only the righteous, nor only the wicked, just the dead...."
"John saw the dead being judged in his vision."
======== ========= ========
My reply.
Justme you have just displayed an oxymoron in your first paragraph and you forget that judgement was "given to the Saints already raised at the first resurrection of life in verse 4 all living righteous to be yet raised at the last day of the tribulation period start reigning a thousand years with Christ judging the dead. The dead were judged out of the Books. THE BOOKS WERE opened the book of life was also opened and they are not found in it and are judged by their works that are recorded in the other books opened, I have no idea of what you are trying to say you seem utterly confused.
======= ============ =======
Justme’s quote.
"How were they judged?......according to what they had done as recorded in the books. Please notice this is plural, The Judge consulted more that the one book of life in this process."
13The sea gave up the dead that were in it,...........Would anybody consider that only the righteous or only the wicked died at sea? and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them,.......
"Would anyone consider that only the righteous or only the wicked ever DIED?"
and each person was judged according to what he had done.
========= ========= =========
My reply.
They were judged by the righteous already risen in verse 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN unto THEM: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and REIGNED WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS.
So we have the righteous living before the dead by some one thousand years, because Verse 5. Says quote "But THE REST of the dead lived not again UNTIL the thousand years were FINISHED."
So it is only the wicked dead that are raised in verse 13.
As far as your next pointless question goes, the answer is too obvious for words, but what does it have to do with your argument, it gives no credence to either side of the debate.
You said.
Quote, "Would anyone consider that only the righteous or only the wicked ever DIED?"
========== ========= ==========
Justme’s quote.
AND please take note that EACH person, whether they were the wicked who died at sea or a righteous person who simply DIED was judged.
====== ======== ===============
My reply.
Timing Justme, timing!
Your timing is off by some one thousand years.
The rest of the dead lived NOT until AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS, verse 5. They are not a part of the resurrection of life.
The is the first RESURRECTION.. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
"John saw this in his vision. First we note John saw the great white throne...
12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne,
Next we note John saw the dead standing before the throne.. not the righteous dead, nor the unrighteous dead...just the dead and books were opened."
===== ======= ========
My reply.
Justme, you can’t ignore the fact that the righteous have already been raised and JUDGEMENT WAS GIVEN TO THEM IN VERSE 4, to judge the wicked and the sentence was carried out in verse 9, 10, after the thousand years and after the wicked were destroyed we have the record of judgement.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
=== ========= ==========
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: and ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS the book OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their works.
Justme’s, you said.
"The above wasn't the book of life..because..Another book was opened, which is the book of life. Singular ...one book..."
"The dead were judged., not only the righteous, nor only the wicked, just the dead...."
"John saw the dead being judged in his vision."
======== ========= ========
My reply.
Justme you have just displayed an oxymoron in your first paragraph and you forget that judgement was "given to the Saints already raised at the first resurrection of life in verse 4 all living righteous to be yet raised at the last day of the tribulation period start reigning a thousand years with Christ judging the dead. The dead were judged out of the Books. THE BOOKS WERE opened the book of life was also opened and they are not found in it and are judged by their works that are recorded in the other books opened, I have no idea of what you are trying to say you seem utterly confused.
======= ============ =======
Justme’s quote.
"How were they judged?......according to what they had done as recorded in the books. Please notice this is plural, The Judge consulted more that the one book of life in this process."
13The sea gave up the dead that were in it,...........Would anybody consider that only the righteous or only the wicked died at sea? and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them,.......
"Would anyone consider that only the righteous or only the wicked ever DIED?"
and each person was judged according to what he had done.
========= ========= =========
My reply.
They were judged by the righteous already risen in verse 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN unto THEM: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and REIGNED WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS.
So we have the righteous living before the dead by some one thousand years, because Verse 5. Says quote "But THE REST of the dead lived not again UNTIL the thousand years were FINISHED."
So it is only the wicked dead that are raised in verse 13.
As far as your next pointless question goes, the answer is too obvious for words, but what does it have to do with your argument, it gives no credence to either side of the debate.
You said.
Quote, "Would anyone consider that only the righteous or only the wicked ever DIED?"
========== ========= ==========
Justme’s quote.
AND please take note that EACH person, whether they were the wicked who died at sea or a righteous person who simply DIED was judged.
====== ======== ===============
My reply.
Timing Justme, timing!
Your timing is off by some one thousand years.
The rest of the dead lived NOT until AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS, verse 5. They are not a part of the resurrection of life.
The is the first RESURRECTION.. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Justme’s quote.
Please take note that the judgment was acted upon....
14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
======= ======= ===========
My reply.
The record is of how the last enemy, "DEATH" was ‘acted upon’ in verse 14!
===== ========== ==========
Justme, you said.
Here is the comeuppance for the bad guys....
15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
======= =========== =========
My reply.
The wicked that remain dead during the thousand years are judged by the righteous, in verse 4, Who were raised at the first resurrection, the righteous judge and reign a thousand years with Jesus. Those who were NOT found in the book of life stay dead a thousand years, because they lived not until after the thousand years in verse 5.They receive the second death in verse 9.
======= ========= ===========
Justme’s quote.
"So what happens to those who DID have their name in the other book which was also opened at his judgment and who were also judged at this time? Don't matter because it already proves the wicked dead aren't judged and raised last."
So any way you want to cut it this idea you have is out the window. You want the resurrection of the wicked after the righteous, well you can't have it.
The above shows the righteous were there at the time of that judgment and it shows that the wicked were raised to an eternal life of Hell.
"We have showed you verses that state clearly the resurrections were on the same day, you have been shown verses that anyone can plainly read as being the same time and simply put, you have been shown more than enough to scrap this resurrection mess you talk about. You theory won't float...period."
Justme
======= ======= =============
My reply.
The wicked dead are not raised with the righteous in Rev 19:1.. The righteous are raised before the thousand years because judgement is given to them which they carry out DURING the thousand years Rev 20:4 whilst the dead remain dead Rev 20: 5 "until AFTER the thousand years "when they are deceived by Satan who is released AFTER that same period. So the wicked dead stay dead for 1000 years, whilst being judged by the righteous risen in verse 6 after the tribulation period. Satan is released after 1000 years they that are deceived after the 1000 years must be those nations raised after that time because Satan is released after that time period verse 7, he deceives the wicked verse 8, the wicked are destroyed in verse 9, along with Satan in verse10.
Quick run through again.
The righteous were raised in verse 4 FIRST to judge the wicked dead during the thousand years. The wicked dead did not live. until after the thousand years in verse 5. Then they were deceived after the thousand years when Satan is released "after the 1000 years" in verse 7. Satan deceives the wicked in verse 8. Then the wicked raised after the thousand years are destroyed in verse 9 along with Satan in verse 10.
====== ========== ============
Let’s tidy this book business up for you Justme.
Daniel 7:10. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS were opened.
Books are opened and used in the FIRST judgement which is set, meaning prefixed, predetermined.
11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
The little horn Satan stops speaking when the beast is killed and thrown into fire at the end of the tribulation period. This corresponds with Rev 20:1,2,3 where Satan is shut up in the pit after the first resurrection of Rev 19;1.
Daniel 7:12. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
The wicked dead and living at the second coming have not been raised because they were not found in the book of life, all the books were used for the resurrection of life particularly the book of life.
The rest of the powers are given 15 months to live. All these wicked people are left on earth for a 15 month period before they are put to the sword after Jesus is given "dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him:"
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Jesus is given His dominion back by the Father.
14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
All the nations shall serve HIM forever. We have the resurrected in Heaven saying the same thing.
Rev 19:1.And after these things I heard a great voice of MUCH PEOPLE IN HEAVEN, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and GLORY, and HONOUR, and POWER, unto the Lord our God:
The same vision of Daniel 7 follows in Revelation but with much more detail.
Rev 19: 2,3,4,5,6. All the righteous raised to Heaven are praising the Lamb.
The raised righteous give honour to God verse 7.
The righteous raised are given white robes in verse 8.
Please take note that the judgment was acted upon....
14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
======= ======= ===========
My reply.
The record is of how the last enemy, "DEATH" was ‘acted upon’ in verse 14!
===== ========== ==========
Justme, you said.
Here is the comeuppance for the bad guys....
15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
======= =========== =========
My reply.
The wicked that remain dead during the thousand years are judged by the righteous, in verse 4, Who were raised at the first resurrection, the righteous judge and reign a thousand years with Jesus. Those who were NOT found in the book of life stay dead a thousand years, because they lived not until after the thousand years in verse 5.They receive the second death in verse 9.
======= ========= ===========
Justme’s quote.
"So what happens to those who DID have their name in the other book which was also opened at his judgment and who were also judged at this time? Don't matter because it already proves the wicked dead aren't judged and raised last."
So any way you want to cut it this idea you have is out the window. You want the resurrection of the wicked after the righteous, well you can't have it.
The above shows the righteous were there at the time of that judgment and it shows that the wicked were raised to an eternal life of Hell.
"We have showed you verses that state clearly the resurrections were on the same day, you have been shown verses that anyone can plainly read as being the same time and simply put, you have been shown more than enough to scrap this resurrection mess you talk about. You theory won't float...period."
Justme
======= ======= =============
My reply.
The wicked dead are not raised with the righteous in Rev 19:1.. The righteous are raised before the thousand years because judgement is given to them which they carry out DURING the thousand years Rev 20:4 whilst the dead remain dead Rev 20: 5 "until AFTER the thousand years "when they are deceived by Satan who is released AFTER that same period. So the wicked dead stay dead for 1000 years, whilst being judged by the righteous risen in verse 6 after the tribulation period. Satan is released after 1000 years they that are deceived after the 1000 years must be those nations raised after that time because Satan is released after that time period verse 7, he deceives the wicked verse 8, the wicked are destroyed in verse 9, along with Satan in verse10.
Quick run through again.
The righteous were raised in verse 4 FIRST to judge the wicked dead during the thousand years. The wicked dead did not live. until after the thousand years in verse 5. Then they were deceived after the thousand years when Satan is released "after the 1000 years" in verse 7. Satan deceives the wicked in verse 8. Then the wicked raised after the thousand years are destroyed in verse 9 along with Satan in verse 10.
====== ========== ============
Let’s tidy this book business up for you Justme.
Daniel 7:10. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS were opened.
Books are opened and used in the FIRST judgement which is set, meaning prefixed, predetermined.
11I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
The little horn Satan stops speaking when the beast is killed and thrown into fire at the end of the tribulation period. This corresponds with Rev 20:1,2,3 where Satan is shut up in the pit after the first resurrection of Rev 19;1.
Daniel 7:12. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
The wicked dead and living at the second coming have not been raised because they were not found in the book of life, all the books were used for the resurrection of life particularly the book of life.
The rest of the powers are given 15 months to live. All these wicked people are left on earth for a 15 month period before they are put to the sword after Jesus is given "dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him:"
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Jesus is given His dominion back by the Father.
14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
All the nations shall serve HIM forever. We have the resurrected in Heaven saying the same thing.
Rev 19:1.And after these things I heard a great voice of MUCH PEOPLE IN HEAVEN, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and GLORY, and HONOUR, and POWER, unto the Lord our God:
The same vision of Daniel 7 follows in Revelation but with much more detail.
Rev 19: 2,3,4,5,6. All the righteous raised to Heaven are praising the Lamb.
The raised righteous give honour to God verse 7.
The righteous raised are given white robes in verse 8.
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
The righteous are blessed for being at the wedding supper in verse 9.
Jesus is the spirit of prophecy verse 10.
Jesus doeth judge the wicked verse 11, who WERE LEFT back on Earth waiting for 15 months. Dan 7:12.
Jesus gets ready to make war with the "remnant" left on Earth who were not a part of the first resurrection of life in verses 11, 12,13.
Jesus heads back to Earth to put the wicked to the sword with His armies from Heaven which includes the righteous risen at the first resurrection in verse 14.
We see God rule the nations with the rod of iron and see His wrath on them here on Earth verse 14, then verses 15, we see His name in verse 16, and see Him call the birds to eat the flesh of the wicked and in 17, 18. We see in the vision, the armies of Earth gathered, that is the wicked left and not part of the first resurrection in verse 19, the beast and false prophet are killed in verse 20, the remnant, those left by the mill or field or wherever on Earth are put to the sword and eaten by the birds.
Luke 17:35.Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
The ones left are to become birds food.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
After the battle of Armageddon spoken of in Rev 16:16.
We get in Rev 20: 1, 2, 3, Satan being bound 1000 years, made to be quiet being the little horn who was boasting in Daniel 7:11.
So we have studied that the righteous who went through the tribulation are given judgement DURING THE 1000 YEARS, against the wicked dead in verse 4 as they the wicked remain dead until the 1000 years are finished in verse 5, in verse 6 after the 1st resurrection those who are in Heaven have no worries about the second death that occurs just after the second resurrection, in verse 7, Satan is loosed to deceive the wicked who are resurrected after the 1000 years when Satan is released to deceive them into battle verse 9.
Rev 20: 9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH AND THE HEAVEN FLED AWAY; and there was found no place for them.
We now get to the Books again. Not only were they used in the resurrection of life in Daniel 7: 10 at the end of the tribulation period WHICH ends when the beast is killed in Daniel 7: 12 and where the wicked are left in Dan 7: 12 for a season and time to be put to the sword after the beast is killed with the false prophet in Rev 19:14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and eaten by the birds in verse 20.
We have all the books being used in the first resurrection and in the second resurrection of damnation which is recorded after the event in the following verses.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the BOOKS were opened: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS PENED, WHICH is the book of LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their WORKS.
As we have studied already the righteous raised at the first resurrection of life, after the tribulation period, judge the wicked dead , during the 1000 years after the wicked remnant are killed with the sword of HIM with the righteous in white being included in the Heavenly armies Rev 19: 14 to 21.
There are no righteous to be saved in these next verses because they ARE NOT MENTIONED AT ALL.
Not until the wicked are put to death by the sword in Rev19:21, are the WICKED DEAD judged in 20:4, by the righteous raised at the resurrection of life that’s how the righteous manage to live easily for a 1000 years and forever.
Now for what happened to the wicked.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
Were the wicked found in the book of life? NO.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I do not agree with you Justme because you are not backed up by the Bible in this matter at all.
Maranatha.
Prophecy Countdown.
Jesus is the spirit of prophecy verse 10.
Jesus doeth judge the wicked verse 11, who WERE LEFT back on Earth waiting for 15 months. Dan 7:12.
Jesus gets ready to make war with the "remnant" left on Earth who were not a part of the first resurrection of life in verses 11, 12,13.
Jesus heads back to Earth to put the wicked to the sword with His armies from Heaven which includes the righteous risen at the first resurrection in verse 14.
We see God rule the nations with the rod of iron and see His wrath on them here on Earth verse 14, then verses 15, we see His name in verse 16, and see Him call the birds to eat the flesh of the wicked and in 17, 18. We see in the vision, the armies of Earth gathered, that is the wicked left and not part of the first resurrection in verse 19, the beast and false prophet are killed in verse 20, the remnant, those left by the mill or field or wherever on Earth are put to the sword and eaten by the birds.
Luke 17:35.Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
The ones left are to become birds food.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
After the battle of Armageddon spoken of in Rev 16:16.
We get in Rev 20: 1, 2, 3, Satan being bound 1000 years, made to be quiet being the little horn who was boasting in Daniel 7:11.
So we have studied that the righteous who went through the tribulation are given judgement DURING THE 1000 YEARS, against the wicked dead in verse 4 as they the wicked remain dead until the 1000 years are finished in verse 5, in verse 6 after the 1st resurrection those who are in Heaven have no worries about the second death that occurs just after the second resurrection, in verse 7, Satan is loosed to deceive the wicked who are resurrected after the 1000 years when Satan is released to deceive them into battle verse 9.
Rev 20: 9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH AND THE HEAVEN FLED AWAY; and there was found no place for them.
We now get to the Books again. Not only were they used in the resurrection of life in Daniel 7: 10 at the end of the tribulation period WHICH ends when the beast is killed in Daniel 7: 12 and where the wicked are left in Dan 7: 12 for a season and time to be put to the sword after the beast is killed with the false prophet in Rev 19:14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and eaten by the birds in verse 20.
We have all the books being used in the first resurrection and in the second resurrection of damnation which is recorded after the event in the following verses.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the BOOKS were opened: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS PENED, WHICH is the book of LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their WORKS.
As we have studied already the righteous raised at the first resurrection of life, after the tribulation period, judge the wicked dead , during the 1000 years after the wicked remnant are killed with the sword of HIM with the righteous in white being included in the Heavenly armies Rev 19: 14 to 21.
There are no righteous to be saved in these next verses because they ARE NOT MENTIONED AT ALL.
Not until the wicked are put to death by the sword in Rev19:21, are the WICKED DEAD judged in 20:4, by the righteous raised at the resurrection of life that’s how the righteous manage to live easily for a 1000 years and forever.
Now for what happened to the wicked.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
Were the wicked found in the book of life? NO.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I do not agree with you Justme because you are not backed up by the Bible in this matter at all.
Maranatha.
Prophecy Countdown.
Upvote
0
As we have studied already the righteous raised at the first resurrection of life, after the tribulation period, judge the wicked dead , during the 1000 years after the wicked remnant are killed with the sword of HIM with the righteous in white being included in the Heavenly armies Rev 19: 14 to 21.
John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(KJV)
But what did this Jesus guy know anyway...
H
John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(KJV)
But what did this Jesus guy know anyway...
H
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Hi Justme,
what did you mean when you quoted the Bible, Rev 20: 12. Which I highlighted in captals.
and made your statement, what were you trying to say?
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: and ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS the book OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their works.
Justme’s, you said.
"The above wasn't the book of life..because..Another book was opened, which is the book of life. Singular ...one book..."
That does not make any sense, what does it mean?
what did you mean when you quoted the Bible, Rev 20: 12. Which I highlighted in captals.
and made your statement, what were you trying to say?
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: and ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS the book OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their works.
Justme’s, you said.
"The above wasn't the book of life..because..Another book was opened, which is the book of life. Singular ...one book..."
That does not make any sense, what does it mean?
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Upvote
0
Hi PC,
Why would you worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest.
What about, when was/is Daniel raised?
What about the post about the birds?
Justme
Why would you worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest.
What about, when was/is Daniel raised?
What about the post about the birds?
Justme
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Hi Justme.
You said.
Why would you worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest.
What about, when was/is Daniel raised?
What about the post about the birds?
Justme
You have continued to ask this SAME DREARY QUESTION again and again and again? I have had to spend 5 hours finding parts of the answers that I have already given you. What is your problem? .
THE ANSWERS WERE GIVEN TO YOU BEFORE several times.
Parts of the answers already given to you are as follows.
Post 177.
We know Daniel is in the Book of life, because he was promised that after death, he would stand.
Dan 12:13. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Jesus WILL return at HIS SECOND ADVENT, and Jesus can correctly claim that "EVERY EYE shall see Him" coming in the clouds, and that includes firstly those raised from death, (INCLUDING DANIEL) then we that are still living, will be gathered with them at His second advent. See Rev 1:7.
Another mention in post 177
Daniel 12: 12. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
AS FOR DANIEL being written in the book of life? HE WILL SEE, as every eye will THE COMING OF THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD
Daniel 12: 13. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Another from post 187
Rev 20: This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Now I wonder Justme, who this lot are that were NOT in the book of life that have NOT been raised?
Rev 20:5.But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Acts 24:15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
From the first "resurrection of life" for the just.
To the next "resurrection of damnation," for the unjust, there is a 1000 year span.
The resurrection of life happens AT HIS SECOND COMING.
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND from HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST:
17. THEN WE which are ALIVE and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
How plain is that?
That was the first resurrection. Where the dead, like Daniel are raised FIRST THEN the living are caught up together with them.
No mention of fire coming down from Heaven as there is at the second resurrection. see Rev 20:9.
From Post 232
Daniel 12:2. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John mentions the "resurrection of life" firstly then speaks of the resurrection of "everlasting damnation" after it." In that order.
Also this applies to Daniel. The resurrection "to everlasting life" is mentioned first. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life."
From post 259.
"Where is Daniel?"
For the Bible answer. See Daniel 12:13.
You ask "Where is Daniel?"
Read on and the Bible will let you know.
1. How can we fix the "time of trouble?"
Very easily, quote. "AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED,"
What occurs at "the time of trouble?" The Bibles says God’s people are delivered. Bible quote "EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
3. Are any of the wicked found in the book of life?
Bible answer says only those "thy people," "found written in the book."
Daniel 12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of THY PEOPLE: and THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
You ask where is Daniel?
I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and "we who are alive will be caught up with them together."
You Justme. Then used my previous Bible quote.
quote.
Dan 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
========= ============= =============
So the last verse proves absolutely, that Daniel is NOT raised after the thousand years, but at the second coming prior to the 1000 years.
You then say "Actually this can't be."
The 1000 year reign with Christ is prior to the parousia. Daniel is one of the REST OF THE DEAD, those who sleep in the dust and are raised at the time of the great tribulation. Those who are ALIVE at the parousia can NOT precede Daniel, who is AFTER the 1000 year reign with christ. Rev 20 1-6. 1 Thess 4
======= ========= ======
Wills then tries to explain it to you Justme
Quote
From wills
"The tribulation CANNOT HAPPEN AFTER CHRIST REIGNS for 1000 years--FAR FROM IT--CHRIST's 1000 years does NOT END WITH TRIBULATION
Tribulation takes place BEFORE THE 2ND ADVENT, HENCE DANIEL is raised with the rest of the dead during the TRIBULATION which is before the 1000 years.
It is impossible for the tribulation mentioned IN DANIEL 12 to take place after Christ is controlling the Earth after 1000 years."
====== ================
Justme, You make timing errors because you insist on the 1000 years starting before the resurrection of life at the end of the tribulation period you have the 1000 years back to front that is why you can’t understand the biblical sequence of events.
From Post 189
Dan 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
So the last verse proves absolutely, that Daniel is NOT raised after the thousand years, but at the second coming prior to the 1000 years.
Where does the BIBLE say word for word CLEARLY, that the 1000 years is before the resurrection of Daniel at the second coming, as you claim?
From your post Justme, post 262.
Quote.
"Good, it's nice to see you've changed your story here."
===== =========== ============
My reply from post 280.
Greetings Justme.
Earlier you asked me "where is Daniel?"
You then quoted part of my reply.
Quote.
"I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and "we who are alive will be caught up with them together."
Justme, you then said."Good, it's nice to see you've changed your story here".
"So now you agree that there is a resurrection at the time of the coming of the son of man (parousia) or more biblically correct, at the time of the great tribulation."
My reply.
I’ve "not changed my mind." What makes you think such a thing?
Maybe it’s my fault in not explaining myself properly.
If you go back to page 19 and to the end of post 188, you will see that I said this about the resurrection of Daniel.
Quote. "Rev 19:9. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."
"That’s the blessing, and Daniel will be there, with all the Saints just after the first resurrection at the second coming."
Check me out, Justme on Page 19 post 188.
From my post 329.
I said Daniel was a part of the first resurrection at the second coming. I did not say that he would be raised at the resurrection of the Christ. The many Saints that were raised at the resurrection of Christ, are only a small part of the FIRST RESURRECTION OF LIFE. The rest, to be raised at the second coming are also A PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION OF LIFE, even though they are raised at the second coming.
You said this Justme.
Quote. Why would you worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest.
What about, when was/is Daniel raised?
What about the post about the birds?
I wish you would not make untruthful statements about me from the hip without thinking. I have NOT ignored your questions regards Daniel.
Also I have covered "the birds" post so I’m not going to spend more fruitless hours repeating myself.
You said.
Why would you worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest.
What about, when was/is Daniel raised?
What about the post about the birds?
Justme
You have continued to ask this SAME DREARY QUESTION again and again and again? I have had to spend 5 hours finding parts of the answers that I have already given you. What is your problem? .
THE ANSWERS WERE GIVEN TO YOU BEFORE several times.
Parts of the answers already given to you are as follows.
Post 177.
We know Daniel is in the Book of life, because he was promised that after death, he would stand.
Dan 12:13. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Jesus WILL return at HIS SECOND ADVENT, and Jesus can correctly claim that "EVERY EYE shall see Him" coming in the clouds, and that includes firstly those raised from death, (INCLUDING DANIEL) then we that are still living, will be gathered with them at His second advent. See Rev 1:7.
Another mention in post 177
Daniel 12: 12. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
AS FOR DANIEL being written in the book of life? HE WILL SEE, as every eye will THE COMING OF THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD
Daniel 12: 13. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Another from post 187
Rev 20: This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Now I wonder Justme, who this lot are that were NOT in the book of life that have NOT been raised?
Rev 20:5.But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Acts 24:15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
From the first "resurrection of life" for the just.
To the next "resurrection of damnation," for the unjust, there is a 1000 year span.
The resurrection of life happens AT HIS SECOND COMING.
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND from HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST:
17. THEN WE which are ALIVE and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
How plain is that?
That was the first resurrection. Where the dead, like Daniel are raised FIRST THEN the living are caught up together with them.
No mention of fire coming down from Heaven as there is at the second resurrection. see Rev 20:9.
From Post 232
Daniel 12:2. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John mentions the "resurrection of life" firstly then speaks of the resurrection of "everlasting damnation" after it." In that order.
Also this applies to Daniel. The resurrection "to everlasting life" is mentioned first. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life."
From post 259.
"Where is Daniel?"
For the Bible answer. See Daniel 12:13.
You ask "Where is Daniel?"
Read on and the Bible will let you know.
1. How can we fix the "time of trouble?"
Very easily, quote. "AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED,"
What occurs at "the time of trouble?" The Bibles says God’s people are delivered. Bible quote "EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
3. Are any of the wicked found in the book of life?
Bible answer says only those "thy people," "found written in the book."
Daniel 12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of THY PEOPLE: and THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
You ask where is Daniel?
I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and "we who are alive will be caught up with them together."
You Justme. Then used my previous Bible quote.
quote.
Dan 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
========= ============= =============
So the last verse proves absolutely, that Daniel is NOT raised after the thousand years, but at the second coming prior to the 1000 years.
You then say "Actually this can't be."
The 1000 year reign with Christ is prior to the parousia. Daniel is one of the REST OF THE DEAD, those who sleep in the dust and are raised at the time of the great tribulation. Those who are ALIVE at the parousia can NOT precede Daniel, who is AFTER the 1000 year reign with christ. Rev 20 1-6. 1 Thess 4
======= ========= ======
Wills then tries to explain it to you Justme
Quote
From wills
"The tribulation CANNOT HAPPEN AFTER CHRIST REIGNS for 1000 years--FAR FROM IT--CHRIST's 1000 years does NOT END WITH TRIBULATION
Tribulation takes place BEFORE THE 2ND ADVENT, HENCE DANIEL is raised with the rest of the dead during the TRIBULATION which is before the 1000 years.
It is impossible for the tribulation mentioned IN DANIEL 12 to take place after Christ is controlling the Earth after 1000 years."
====== ================
Justme, You make timing errors because you insist on the 1000 years starting before the resurrection of life at the end of the tribulation period you have the 1000 years back to front that is why you can’t understand the biblical sequence of events.
From Post 189
Dan 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
So the last verse proves absolutely, that Daniel is NOT raised after the thousand years, but at the second coming prior to the 1000 years.
Where does the BIBLE say word for word CLEARLY, that the 1000 years is before the resurrection of Daniel at the second coming, as you claim?
From your post Justme, post 262.
Quote.
"Good, it's nice to see you've changed your story here."
===== =========== ============
My reply from post 280.
Greetings Justme.
Earlier you asked me "where is Daniel?"
You then quoted part of my reply.
Quote.
"I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and "we who are alive will be caught up with them together."
Justme, you then said."Good, it's nice to see you've changed your story here".
"So now you agree that there is a resurrection at the time of the coming of the son of man (parousia) or more biblically correct, at the time of the great tribulation."
My reply.
I’ve "not changed my mind." What makes you think such a thing?
Maybe it’s my fault in not explaining myself properly.
If you go back to page 19 and to the end of post 188, you will see that I said this about the resurrection of Daniel.
Quote. "Rev 19:9. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."
"That’s the blessing, and Daniel will be there, with all the Saints just after the first resurrection at the second coming."
Check me out, Justme on Page 19 post 188.
From my post 329.
I said Daniel was a part of the first resurrection at the second coming. I did not say that he would be raised at the resurrection of the Christ. The many Saints that were raised at the resurrection of Christ, are only a small part of the FIRST RESURRECTION OF LIFE. The rest, to be raised at the second coming are also A PART of the FIRST RESURRECTION OF LIFE, even though they are raised at the second coming.
You said this Justme.
Quote. Why would you worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest.
What about, when was/is Daniel raised?
What about the post about the birds?
I wish you would not make untruthful statements about me from the hip without thinking. I have NOT ignored your questions regards Daniel.
Also I have covered "the birds" post so I’m not going to spend more fruitless hours repeating myself.
Upvote
0
Hi Prophecy,
I'm not surprised you want to avoid the birds.
Back to the resurrection at the parousia or near the parousia.....
You wrote:
Also this applies to Daniel. The resurrection "to everlasting life" is mentioned first. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life."
Then you stop!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT you are aware that many of those that sleep in the dust shall awake....
WHEN?
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.
At that time of the great tribulation talked about in verse 1, that is when those talked about will be raised.
When will those be raised who are NOT in the book?
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
There is absolutely no, nada, zero , nix, not an iota of a tiny hint that there is any time lag between these resurrections. One being written in the senence before the other means absolutely nothing, in fact it would have to be that way, You can't write them on top of each other.
BESIDES it doesn't matter anyway.
Here are the criteria that denotes the participants in the 'first resurrection.
...beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God
Did Daniel hear the teaching of Jesus Christ?
Was Daniel beheaded?
....They had not worshiped the beast or his image
Daniel was SLEEPING IN THE DUST long before the great tribulation so could Daniel possibly have seen the beast?
Could Daniel be one who was sealed in Rev 7?
Could Daniel be one of those with the white robes?
Daniel is one of those who will SLEEP IN THE DUST.
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."
When is that again? When do they peek into the book of life? That is when Daniel is raised to receive his allotted inheritance.
There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.
That my friend is the great tribulation which is :
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[3]
the Son of Man
will appear
The coming of the son of man is IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great tribulation not thousands of years after.
Which brings us to this pesky little verse that you have not spoken much about which says:
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Daniel has fallen asleep,anybody alive at the parousia, WILL NOT BE RAISED BEFORE THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP.
Daniel was asleep, but guess what...the wicked were asleep too. AND those alive at the parousia can not precede them either.
It matters not how you slice it PC, the rest of the dead do not come to life until after the 1000 year reign with Chriist. That 1000 year reign must occur prior to the parousia, not after it.
Would you like to see it with the birds too?
How about Rev 11?
Justme
I'm not surprised you want to avoid the birds.
Back to the resurrection at the parousia or near the parousia.....
You wrote:
Also this applies to Daniel. The resurrection "to everlasting life" is mentioned first. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life."
Then you stop!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT you are aware that many of those that sleep in the dust shall awake....
WHEN?
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.
At that time of the great tribulation talked about in verse 1, that is when those talked about will be raised.
When will those be raised who are NOT in the book?
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
There is absolutely no, nada, zero , nix, not an iota of a tiny hint that there is any time lag between these resurrections. One being written in the senence before the other means absolutely nothing, in fact it would have to be that way, You can't write them on top of each other.
BESIDES it doesn't matter anyway.
Here are the criteria that denotes the participants in the 'first resurrection.
...beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God
Did Daniel hear the teaching of Jesus Christ?
Was Daniel beheaded?
....They had not worshiped the beast or his image
Daniel was SLEEPING IN THE DUST long before the great tribulation so could Daniel possibly have seen the beast?
Could Daniel be one who was sealed in Rev 7?
Could Daniel be one of those with the white robes?
Daniel is one of those who will SLEEP IN THE DUST.
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."
When is that again? When do they peek into the book of life? That is when Daniel is raised to receive his allotted inheritance.
There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.
That my friend is the great tribulation which is :
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[3]
the Son of Man
will appear
The coming of the son of man is IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great tribulation not thousands of years after.
Which brings us to this pesky little verse that you have not spoken much about which says:
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Daniel has fallen asleep,anybody alive at the parousia, WILL NOT BE RAISED BEFORE THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP.
Daniel was asleep, but guess what...the wicked were asleep too. AND those alive at the parousia can not precede them either.
It matters not how you slice it PC, the rest of the dead do not come to life until after the 1000 year reign with Chriist. That 1000 year reign must occur prior to the parousia, not after it.
Would you like to see it with the birds too?
How about Rev 11?
Justme
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Hello my dear sons 66 Books, and Colbey, It’s good to see you both right on track and up to speed with your ever growing and extensive Bible knowledge, Colbey, I send my prayers to you both and the girls. Hot in Sydney up to 31, here it’s 7 When is spring coming? Help!!
Hi there Justme.
How interested you seem to be in these little studies. I am delighted that you ask so many questions, all the time on and on and on repeating then incessantly. I hope and pray that your knowledge increases in the power of the word, so that I can have a break from them and you.
However you do have one little problem of trying to catch folk out instead of doing serious Bible sudy.
You seem to get into trouble by taking one verse out of context without first checking the intent of previous verses, so as to at least try and verify your ideas.
You tend to do the same thing with my writings and it is a little careless of you.
I have spoken to you about this problem of yours before.
I hope you don’t mind me mentioning it but it may cause others to think that it may be me that’s careless and that would not do or be fair on me now would it Justme. I’m sure you don’t continually do this on purpose to spread that idea about, but please be less careless in future and do try and think before you say anything.
Bible.
You quote me,
"When will those be raised who are NOT in the book?"
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
There is absolutely no, nada, zero , nix, not an iota of a tiny hint that there is any time lag between these resurrections. One being written in the senence before the other means absolutely nothing, in fact it would have to be that way, You can't write them on top of each other.
======== ========== ===========
Yes I agree ,,, absolutely,, yes, I mean, after all Daniel 12: 2. does not say they will rise at the resurrection of life and damnation does it! No not at all,,, glad we cleared that up,, yes ,,indeed.
Let me reply because some of what I said has been left out by you again, Justme. I said "When will those be raised who are NOT in the book?"
We first have the resurrection of life for EVERYONE, found written in the book of life, that’s in Daniel 12:1. They are also mentioned in Daniel 12: 2
We have another group that are raised who are not in the book of life
They are mentioned after Dan 12:1 and after the righteous are mentioned in Dan 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will
awake: some to everlasting life, ( "good guys" mentioned in Dan 12:1)
(now we have those not in the book of life)
"others to shame and everlasting contempt."
That’s that little misunderstanding fixed.
TIMING & CONTEXT.
Satan’s earthly reign comes to an end.
Daniel 11: 45.And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Michael stands and delivers His people EVERYONE written in the book.
Nobody is going to be miss out Justme everyone written in the book, INCLUDING DANIEL!
This is the resurrection of life mentioned FIRST IN THEIR CORRECT ORDER!
Daniel 12: 1.And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
"Everyone" "DELIVERED",,,,, "EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
THAT INCLUDES DANIEL, LET ME REPEAT SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND. Justme ,,,, EVERYONE FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
That’s it resurrection of life complete.
Well that’s that little misunderstanding about, who are raised first dealt with.
But don’t worry Justme ,,,, Eventually all will be raised some to everlasting life, that’s those in the last verse above, which are delivered out of the tribulation period.
Eventually we will see those raised to everlasting contempt those that will eventually be dealt with after 1000 years. You know the ones Justme, the ones that lived not until the 1000 years is finished.
So all in all Justme, eventually, inevitably, in due time, as time progresses with the fullness of time, the next verse will be fulfilled and after the last resurrection of damnation actually occurs. We can look forward and say Rev 20 2. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." And look back in hindsight and say,,
"yes verse 2 did happen exactly the way the Lord said it would!"
So try and be patient Justme, it’s in the Father’s hands.
There you go Justme, there is not a scrape of evidence to prove your theory, never mind they say "disappointment can improve the character."
Justme, if you look at, Daniel 12.1 it explains about the resurrection of life ,,,,, separately and ,,,,, occurring at the end of the tribulation period ,,,,and doesn’t mention the other ,,,,, resurrection happening at that time,,,, at all!
As far as you saying Justme, quote.
"One being written in the senence before the other means absolutely nothing,."
_____________________
My reply is.
"One sentence?" You mean one verse don’t you?
Why don’t we both look again at Daniel 12:1 where Michael rescues His people,,,, first. You know Justme, ,,,,, those that are gathered in Matt 24:31.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mind Justme,,, let’s not forget that some are taken,,, however some are left, you know Justme, those left for the birds that "pesky" little bird thing as you say which I will deal with later,, so try and be patient.
You say Justme, quote, "in fact it would have to be that way, You can't write them on top of each other."
Why do you even suggest such a silly thing.
The problem is Justme, they don’t try and write them on top of each other as you try to do by lumping the time of the resurrections together which kind of lumps them on top of each other, so again try reading Daniel 12:1 and bingo your problem will be solved.
Now, now Justme, we cannot take one small verse of the Bible and imply things now can we.. As I would suggest again read Daniel 12:1 before you get to the verse that you use as your argument. No,, no ,,, please ,,, don’t thank me it was nothing at all,, I just like to help someone lost, so to speak,, up the creek without a paddle, if you know what I mean.
Did you know Justme, That Jesus Himself deals with the sequence of events, starting firstly with the first resurrections of life, then He moves on to the judgement, then the resurrection of damnation and in discussing these event’s places them in their correct order?
No,,, I guess you didn’t realise that by your questions, still never mind.
Which unfortunately for you as you say like to say Justme "blows your argument out of the water." I like that phrase, you used on me very early in this thread, it says it all.
Let’s, you and I look at the timing or sequence of events.
Firstly. Resurrection of life!
Jesus is speaking firstly of the dead that shall live, in this next verse.
John 5:25.Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and THEY SHALL LIVE.
Jesus said, " The hour is coming and now is?"
I think you should be careful when you try cramming both resurrections into one hour Justme, the Creator of time does not seem to be subject to it.
We do not understand time like the creator does unless you can explain what Jesus said in clear terms in verse 25. However, I will stick to the event, the resurrection of life occurring firstly.
We must remember there are two, did I forget to mention that? No,, I don’t think I did forget.
We have Jesus saying "the Hour is coming" thensays "and now is," Then Jesus says, "when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE."
Jesus is speaking of the ONE event, the resurrection of life "THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE."
So, what do we have? We have the resurrection of life. "THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE."
That’s that.
John 5: 26. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jesus has authority of life which is within Himself, from the Father to say, "THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE."
Now we have the sequence of events being shown by the Lord Himself, He now brings us to the judgement!
Secondly, the Judgement!
Jesus as the Son of man has authority over judgement which is mentioned only AFTER the resurrection of life with the words "they that hear shall live."
27.And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jesus has already spoken of the resurrection of life by saying "THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE." Then Jesus speaks of the "judgment," in that order!
Now Jesus speaks of an hour that is to come, where the resurrection for those "they that hear shall live" but says, "ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice,"
The word "ALL" is used, so we now have to look for the meaning of "ALL," because obviously Jesus was not referring to "ALL" when speaking of "they that hear shall live," because they were only "those found written in the book of life"
therefore being of a selected group to the resurrection of life.
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
We already know of "they that hear shall live," but what about the other group that make up the word "ALL?"
The answer is given in the next verse and note the sequence.
Firstly those resurrected of life are mentioned, then judgement is mentioned for those that make up "all" that hear His voice are referred to being a part of the resurrection of damnation.
Let me just repeat so we don't miss it Justme.
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
The sequence outlined by Jesus in earlier verses is still not broken with the above verse. There is a different time for both resurrections for "ALL" that make up the two groups.
Thirdly. The resurrection of damnation.
Only after the resurrection of life do we get the next mention of the resurrection of damnation
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Hi there Justme.
How interested you seem to be in these little studies. I am delighted that you ask so many questions, all the time on and on and on repeating then incessantly. I hope and pray that your knowledge increases in the power of the word, so that I can have a break from them and you.
However you do have one little problem of trying to catch folk out instead of doing serious Bible sudy.
You seem to get into trouble by taking one verse out of context without first checking the intent of previous verses, so as to at least try and verify your ideas.
You tend to do the same thing with my writings and it is a little careless of you.
I have spoken to you about this problem of yours before.
I hope you don’t mind me mentioning it but it may cause others to think that it may be me that’s careless and that would not do or be fair on me now would it Justme. I’m sure you don’t continually do this on purpose to spread that idea about, but please be less careless in future and do try and think before you say anything.
Bible.
You quote me,
"When will those be raised who are NOT in the book?"
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
There is absolutely no, nada, zero , nix, not an iota of a tiny hint that there is any time lag between these resurrections. One being written in the senence before the other means absolutely nothing, in fact it would have to be that way, You can't write them on top of each other.
======== ========== ===========
Yes I agree ,,, absolutely,, yes, I mean, after all Daniel 12: 2. does not say they will rise at the resurrection of life and damnation does it! No not at all,,, glad we cleared that up,, yes ,,indeed.
Let me reply because some of what I said has been left out by you again, Justme. I said "When will those be raised who are NOT in the book?"
We first have the resurrection of life for EVERYONE, found written in the book of life, that’s in Daniel 12:1. They are also mentioned in Daniel 12: 2
We have another group that are raised who are not in the book of life
They are mentioned after Dan 12:1 and after the righteous are mentioned in Dan 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will
awake: some to everlasting life, ( "good guys" mentioned in Dan 12:1)
(now we have those not in the book of life)
"others to shame and everlasting contempt."
That’s that little misunderstanding fixed.
TIMING & CONTEXT.
Satan’s earthly reign comes to an end.
Daniel 11: 45.And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Michael stands and delivers His people EVERYONE written in the book.
Nobody is going to be miss out Justme everyone written in the book, INCLUDING DANIEL!
This is the resurrection of life mentioned FIRST IN THEIR CORRECT ORDER!
Daniel 12: 1.And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
"Everyone" "DELIVERED",,,,, "EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
THAT INCLUDES DANIEL, LET ME REPEAT SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND. Justme ,,,, EVERYONE FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
That’s it resurrection of life complete.
Well that’s that little misunderstanding about, who are raised first dealt with.
But don’t worry Justme ,,,, Eventually all will be raised some to everlasting life, that’s those in the last verse above, which are delivered out of the tribulation period.
Eventually we will see those raised to everlasting contempt those that will eventually be dealt with after 1000 years. You know the ones Justme, the ones that lived not until the 1000 years is finished.
So all in all Justme, eventually, inevitably, in due time, as time progresses with the fullness of time, the next verse will be fulfilled and after the last resurrection of damnation actually occurs. We can look forward and say Rev 20 2. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." And look back in hindsight and say,,
"yes verse 2 did happen exactly the way the Lord said it would!"
So try and be patient Justme, it’s in the Father’s hands.
There you go Justme, there is not a scrape of evidence to prove your theory, never mind they say "disappointment can improve the character."
Justme, if you look at, Daniel 12.1 it explains about the resurrection of life ,,,,, separately and ,,,,, occurring at the end of the tribulation period ,,,,and doesn’t mention the other ,,,,, resurrection happening at that time,,,, at all!
As far as you saying Justme, quote.
"One being written in the senence before the other means absolutely nothing,."
_____________________
My reply is.
"One sentence?" You mean one verse don’t you?
Why don’t we both look again at Daniel 12:1 where Michael rescues His people,,,, first. You know Justme, ,,,,, those that are gathered in Matt 24:31.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mind Justme,,, let’s not forget that some are taken,,, however some are left, you know Justme, those left for the birds that "pesky" little bird thing as you say which I will deal with later,, so try and be patient.
You say Justme, quote, "in fact it would have to be that way, You can't write them on top of each other."
Why do you even suggest such a silly thing.
The problem is Justme, they don’t try and write them on top of each other as you try to do by lumping the time of the resurrections together which kind of lumps them on top of each other, so again try reading Daniel 12:1 and bingo your problem will be solved.
Now, now Justme, we cannot take one small verse of the Bible and imply things now can we.. As I would suggest again read Daniel 12:1 before you get to the verse that you use as your argument. No,, no ,,, please ,,, don’t thank me it was nothing at all,, I just like to help someone lost, so to speak,, up the creek without a paddle, if you know what I mean.
Did you know Justme, That Jesus Himself deals with the sequence of events, starting firstly with the first resurrections of life, then He moves on to the judgement, then the resurrection of damnation and in discussing these event’s places them in their correct order?
No,,, I guess you didn’t realise that by your questions, still never mind.
Which unfortunately for you as you say like to say Justme "blows your argument out of the water." I like that phrase, you used on me very early in this thread, it says it all.
Let’s, you and I look at the timing or sequence of events.
Firstly. Resurrection of life!
Jesus is speaking firstly of the dead that shall live, in this next verse.
John 5:25.Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and THEY SHALL LIVE.
Jesus said, " The hour is coming and now is?"
I think you should be careful when you try cramming both resurrections into one hour Justme, the Creator of time does not seem to be subject to it.
We do not understand time like the creator does unless you can explain what Jesus said in clear terms in verse 25. However, I will stick to the event, the resurrection of life occurring firstly.
We must remember there are two, did I forget to mention that? No,, I don’t think I did forget.
We have Jesus saying "the Hour is coming" thensays "and now is," Then Jesus says, "when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE."
Jesus is speaking of the ONE event, the resurrection of life "THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE."
So, what do we have? We have the resurrection of life. "THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE."
That’s that.
John 5: 26. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jesus has authority of life which is within Himself, from the Father to say, "THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE."
Now we have the sequence of events being shown by the Lord Himself, He now brings us to the judgement!
Secondly, the Judgement!
Jesus as the Son of man has authority over judgement which is mentioned only AFTER the resurrection of life with the words "they that hear shall live."
27.And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jesus has already spoken of the resurrection of life by saying "THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE." Then Jesus speaks of the "judgment," in that order!
Now Jesus speaks of an hour that is to come, where the resurrection for those "they that hear shall live" but says, "ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice,"
The word "ALL" is used, so we now have to look for the meaning of "ALL," because obviously Jesus was not referring to "ALL" when speaking of "they that hear shall live," because they were only "those found written in the book of life"
therefore being of a selected group to the resurrection of life.
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
We already know of "they that hear shall live," but what about the other group that make up the word "ALL?"
The answer is given in the next verse and note the sequence.
Firstly those resurrected of life are mentioned, then judgement is mentioned for those that make up "all" that hear His voice are referred to being a part of the resurrection of damnation.
Let me just repeat so we don't miss it Justme.
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
The sequence outlined by Jesus in earlier verses is still not broken with the above verse. There is a different time for both resurrections for "ALL" that make up the two groups.
Thirdly. The resurrection of damnation.
Only after the resurrection of life do we get the next mention of the resurrection of damnation
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Now Jesus speaks of the righteous and has brought the resurrection of damnation into the scenario that makes up the word "all" the resurrected groups. He mentions what will happen to the wicked and of their judgment, which is governed by the Father.
30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
The fact is, there are three events that we are discussing that happen to be mentioned separately so far, but in perfect sequence so how do we read the following verse of Daniel?
We read them in the same sequence outlined by Jesus. Firstly "they that hear shall live," and the others raised of "everlasting contempt."
Daniel 12:2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame everlasting contempt.
Lets look at Revelation for some clarity. I don’t rely on just one or two verses.
Those that are raised that shall live are given judgement to judge the dead and this is referred to in Rev 20: 4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT was GIVEN unto THEM: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and THEY LIVED and REIGNED with Christ a thousand years.
Notice the sequence of events stay exactly the same with this next verse!
We now come to those that are not raised.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
There is no contradiction of this fact of sequencing anywhere in the Bible, that is if we let the Book do the talking.
The resurrection to follow is the resurrection of damnation!
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Rev 20: 9 the wicked are destroyed.
We have the same sequence of the righteous being raised firstly then the judgement of the wicked dead, then the resurrection of the wicked and the sentence is carried out where they are destroyed by fire.
This is the description of the resurrection of life that will occur 1000 years before the resurrection of damnation!
There is a distinct different time of some 1000 years for the two events.
Bible "This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
What happens next, when we take the sequence laid down by Jesus Himself from Matt and Luke into consideration remember. One the resurrection of life. Two judgement. Three second resurrection. Four death for the wicked.
It is only after the 1000 years are passed and the dead are raised at the second resurrection of damnation when Satan is loosed that we see that "all" are raised in the same exact sequence laid out now in several places in the Bible.
Fourthly. Judgement is executed upon the wicked.
7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Notice the Saints raised at the resurrection of life a thousand years earlier are watching this event and are NOT affected by the second death because as promised "the second death has no power over them."
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Well that looks straight forward to me, we have a 1000 years between the two events!
Well that’s that done.
Now for your next lot of questions.
==== ========== =========
Justme you said.
Quote. "BESIDES it doesn't matter anyway."
"Here are the criteria that denotes the participants in the 'first resurrection.
...beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God
Did Daniel hear the teaching of Jesus Christ?
Was Daniel beheaded?
....They had not worshiped the beast or his image
Daniel was SLEEPING IN THE DUST long before the great tribulation so could Daniel possibly have seen the beast?
Could Daniel be one who was sealed in Rev 7?
Could Daniel be one of those with the white robes?"
======= ======== =========
A lot of questions there Justme, and all can be answered easily and simply just using the road map called the Bible’
We can’t have you wobbling off the narrow path with your bike now can we.
Sorry but I simply must disagree with you again, because Daniel did hear the teachings of Jesus!
It was Jesus that spoke to him of the prophecies. You should remember Justme, that "the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus."
Daniel did see the beast in vision and wrote it down and Daniel is telling us in written form today about events to come.
So Justme, by your reckoning we should exclude Daniel from the resurrection of life at the second coming, because he was NOT beheaded?
Or because he will NOT sealed in the tribulation.
Or Because he will not pass through the tribulation period.
Or because you think that he will be raised with the wicked at the resurrection of damnation!
Have you forgotten the basic Christian fundamental equation in all of this?
It’s about faith and applies to ALL those written in the book of life!
1st Corinthians 2:5.That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
I can tell you this much Justme, Daniel had plenty of faith and because of it he did not bow down to that statue, and because of his faith and maintaining his time of daily prayer was cast into the lions den!
Also we can’t forget that he was thrown into the furnace with his friends very early into the 70 years the Babylonian empire even though the king reluctantly had to agree with it, king Nebuchadnezzar thought a lot of Daniel.
The resurrection of life includes "ALL." Remember Justme, "timing."
We have the resurrection of the righteous then judgement of the wicked then the resurrection of the wicked then judgement sentence being carried out.
It doesn’t matter where we go in the Bible, it leads to the same time sequence of events, if we stick with the Bible’s intent, that is.
Resurrection of life after the tribulation.
Rev 19:1. And after these things I heard a great voice of MUCH PEOPLE in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 19:And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Everyone, IN CHRIST are to be a part the resurrection of life and will be at the wedding supper.
There is but a moment between the RIGHTEOUS dead/living being raised together, they are raised before the 1000 years, then judgement is given them, then the wicked raised at the second resurrection after the 1000 years then the sentence is carried out.
1Thes 4:16Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 5:9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation
Justme, are you saying that Daniel may not be at the wedding of the Lamb?
How many righteous dead are raised at the second coming along with the righteous living? Both living and dead righteous are raised, "caught up together in the clouds."
Daniel 7: 14.And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel along with every nation and peoples, from every century who were found in the book of life that was set up from the beginning of every generation WILL BE RAISED!!!
All those who go through the tribulation and those who do not, ALL who have or had faith when they were alive and are in the book of life will be raised at the second coming!
These now deceased women in the next verse will not go through the tribulation, so what?
They are going to be raised at the second coming.
Philippines 4:3. And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life
_________________________________
Justme you said.
"I'm not surprised you want to avoid the birds."
========== ========= =========
MY reply.
"I avoid the birds?" Yeah? Justme, you wish!!!
Be careful Justme I have warned you about making false statements about me!
Now to prove my point about the birds not being avoided as you falsely claim.
The birds subject has already been dealt with in post 321. Rebaa asked the question in an earlier posting, then I gave an explanation in post 359 and again in post 365,
What more do you want? I put up and you say I didn’t ,,, well the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
I have also dealt with Daniel and the "birds" in posts 362,363,364 and 365.
30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
The fact is, there are three events that we are discussing that happen to be mentioned separately so far, but in perfect sequence so how do we read the following verse of Daniel?
We read them in the same sequence outlined by Jesus. Firstly "they that hear shall live," and the others raised of "everlasting contempt."
Daniel 12:2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame everlasting contempt.
Lets look at Revelation for some clarity. I don’t rely on just one or two verses.
Those that are raised that shall live are given judgement to judge the dead and this is referred to in Rev 20: 4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT was GIVEN unto THEM: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and THEY LIVED and REIGNED with Christ a thousand years.
Notice the sequence of events stay exactly the same with this next verse!
We now come to those that are not raised.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
There is no contradiction of this fact of sequencing anywhere in the Bible, that is if we let the Book do the talking.
The resurrection to follow is the resurrection of damnation!
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
Rev 20: 9 the wicked are destroyed.
We have the same sequence of the righteous being raised firstly then the judgement of the wicked dead, then the resurrection of the wicked and the sentence is carried out where they are destroyed by fire.
This is the description of the resurrection of life that will occur 1000 years before the resurrection of damnation!
There is a distinct different time of some 1000 years for the two events.
Bible "This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
What happens next, when we take the sequence laid down by Jesus Himself from Matt and Luke into consideration remember. One the resurrection of life. Two judgement. Three second resurrection. Four death for the wicked.
It is only after the 1000 years are passed and the dead are raised at the second resurrection of damnation when Satan is loosed that we see that "all" are raised in the same exact sequence laid out now in several places in the Bible.
Fourthly. Judgement is executed upon the wicked.
7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Notice the Saints raised at the resurrection of life a thousand years earlier are watching this event and are NOT affected by the second death because as promised "the second death has no power over them."
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Well that looks straight forward to me, we have a 1000 years between the two events!
Well that’s that done.
Now for your next lot of questions.
==== ========== =========
Justme you said.
Quote. "BESIDES it doesn't matter anyway."
"Here are the criteria that denotes the participants in the 'first resurrection.
...beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God
Did Daniel hear the teaching of Jesus Christ?
Was Daniel beheaded?
....They had not worshiped the beast or his image
Daniel was SLEEPING IN THE DUST long before the great tribulation so could Daniel possibly have seen the beast?
Could Daniel be one who was sealed in Rev 7?
Could Daniel be one of those with the white robes?"
======= ======== =========
A lot of questions there Justme, and all can be answered easily and simply just using the road map called the Bible’
We can’t have you wobbling off the narrow path with your bike now can we.
Sorry but I simply must disagree with you again, because Daniel did hear the teachings of Jesus!
It was Jesus that spoke to him of the prophecies. You should remember Justme, that "the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus."
Daniel did see the beast in vision and wrote it down and Daniel is telling us in written form today about events to come.
So Justme, by your reckoning we should exclude Daniel from the resurrection of life at the second coming, because he was NOT beheaded?
Or because he will NOT sealed in the tribulation.
Or Because he will not pass through the tribulation period.
Or because you think that he will be raised with the wicked at the resurrection of damnation!
Have you forgotten the basic Christian fundamental equation in all of this?
It’s about faith and applies to ALL those written in the book of life!
1st Corinthians 2:5.That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
I can tell you this much Justme, Daniel had plenty of faith and because of it he did not bow down to that statue, and because of his faith and maintaining his time of daily prayer was cast into the lions den!
Also we can’t forget that he was thrown into the furnace with his friends very early into the 70 years the Babylonian empire even though the king reluctantly had to agree with it, king Nebuchadnezzar thought a lot of Daniel.
The resurrection of life includes "ALL." Remember Justme, "timing."
We have the resurrection of the righteous then judgement of the wicked then the resurrection of the wicked then judgement sentence being carried out.
It doesn’t matter where we go in the Bible, it leads to the same time sequence of events, if we stick with the Bible’s intent, that is.
Resurrection of life after the tribulation.
Rev 19:1. And after these things I heard a great voice of MUCH PEOPLE in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 19:And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Everyone, IN CHRIST are to be a part the resurrection of life and will be at the wedding supper.
There is but a moment between the RIGHTEOUS dead/living being raised together, they are raised before the 1000 years, then judgement is given them, then the wicked raised at the second resurrection after the 1000 years then the sentence is carried out.
1Thes 4:16Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 5:9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation
Justme, are you saying that Daniel may not be at the wedding of the Lamb?
How many righteous dead are raised at the second coming along with the righteous living? Both living and dead righteous are raised, "caught up together in the clouds."
Daniel 7: 14.And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Daniel along with every nation and peoples, from every century who were found in the book of life that was set up from the beginning of every generation WILL BE RAISED!!!
All those who go through the tribulation and those who do not, ALL who have or had faith when they were alive and are in the book of life will be raised at the second coming!
These now deceased women in the next verse will not go through the tribulation, so what?
They are going to be raised at the second coming.
Philippines 4:3. And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life
_________________________________
Justme you said.
"I'm not surprised you want to avoid the birds."
========== ========= =========
MY reply.
"I avoid the birds?" Yeah? Justme, you wish!!!
Be careful Justme I have warned you about making false statements about me!
Now to prove my point about the birds not being avoided as you falsely claim.
The birds subject has already been dealt with in post 321. Rebaa asked the question in an earlier posting, then I gave an explanation in post 359 and again in post 365,
What more do you want? I put up and you say I didn’t ,,, well the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
I have also dealt with Daniel and the "birds" in posts 362,363,364 and 365.
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
Then you ask in post 367 quote "When is/was Daniel raised to 'life?'"
I mean,,, come on, how negligent and needlessly repetitious is that question?
You then go a step further you seemed bewildered at the fact that I dare ask about your books quoted in post 368.
Which I asked of you in post 371.
I said "What did you mean when you quoted the Bible, Rev 20: 12. Which I highlighted in capitals."
When you made that statement, I simply asked what were you trying to say?
I re-quoted your Bible passage and highlighted the words that showed you to be completely out of touch with it.
Rev 20: 12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: and ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS the book OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their works.
You said. "The above wasn't the book of life..because..Another book was opened, which is the book of life. Singular ...one book..."
I said.
"That does not make any sense, what does it mean?"
You gave me an answer that was of no relevance whatsoever.
Do you retract your remarks about Rev 20: 12?
If you do I will forget about it.
From your post Justme 371. You asked me. "Why would I worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest."
That is what you do with Daniel 12: 2 and conveniently ignore Daniel 11: 45 & Daniel 12:1
Let me ask the same of you and repeat your question back this time about the birds.
Why would you worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest?
I don’t mind questions but the "birds thing?" A little thing like the Birds?
You then ask about Daniel AGAIN and the birds as if I have avoided them even though they have been dealt with.
You have asked me several times, quote "What about, when was/is Daniel raised?"
You go on and on about me ignoring Daniel with "what about Daniel, what about Daniel, what about Daniel?"
Now you have another unimportant axe to grind about the "birds." Is it that important to you?
If so why is it important to you?
Or are you somehow trying to put the boot into Prophecy Countdown with these questions, hoping that he will trip up?
I mean really is it that important ? You keep on and on with "What about the post about the birds?" "What about the post about the birds?" "What about the post about the birds?"
You also made these careless and negative statements in post 354 even on the bases of admitting that you had never heard anyone coming up with this thing "about the Birds," before you reject it outright! Then you say "I'm going to deal with this bit about the birds."
Then you start TELLING me with exaggerated comments about "pasting the whole Bible"
Telling me to prove my point.
So I keep reading this stuff, biding my time and wait until you put both feet firmly into your mouth, because with all this false and misleading stuff you put out about me shows me you are not a Christian but a religious follower and slave to church teachings rather than the Bible.
So get this straight, I am going to knock you off your smug little perch before you frighten any new comers off this site.
You said,
Quote, "PC, I'm going to deal with this bit about the birds. And this time don't just cut and paste the whole bible, just the verses that prove your point ....about the birds...OK? I have never seen anyone come up withe this bird thing before so I'm guessing you might be on your own dealing with it and unable to use canned answers."
Matthew 24
28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
This is talked about in relation to the great tribulation. The great tribulation is the time when God deals out HIs wrath on the people who refuse to accept His word or His son.
________________________________
My reply.
I am going to enjoy doing this. By the way your timing is still way off, again let me show you why!
You still do not understand the 1260, 1335, 1290 days or the 2300 evening and morning or the time times and dividing of time, the little season, season and time, 42 months, 7 trumpets or how many days from the Passover to day of Atonement, Palmini, sides of the North, Secret room, the little horn, how the beast gets his mortal wound, the sequence, or when the 1000 years starts or end, the time of the end or the end of time the timing involved with Passover or the Jubilee in past or future prophecy.
Now I will have to start part the way through Matt because you find too much Bible tedious, but I can’t do one liners like you Justme because as you have proved it got you into a deep hole! LOL.
This is not for you Justme but for those looking and seeking
I will not bother addressing you again
In short folks, Jesus Gives us a warning in Matt 24 of His second coming being similar to that of Noah’s flood warnings. That is the straight forward intent of the Lord’s reflection of the flood recorded in Gen 6:17, and in verse 18 and so on. Jesus makes a covenant with Noah where Noah will enter the Ark with his family and be lifted up.
Gen 7:17.And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
There are many other things to this, it is about Noah having FAITH enough in God, to work for years and years building an Ark and pleading with his fellow man by inviting them in and as a result copping abuse and ridicule from them.
Now for the timing or sequence of events that ushers in the Kingdom of God.
The end comes when the "gospel of the kingdom" is preached to all the world.
Matthew 24: 14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END COME
We are told about SEEING the abomination of desolation STANDING IN THE Holy place.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The Prophet Daniel, that Jesus mentions in relation to the abomination of desolation, gives the time period of this set up in the holy place.
Daniel 12: 11. And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
When that happens for those in Judea? They are told to get out to the mountains right then and there without delay! This vision concerns the time of the end a time yet to come.
16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your FLIGHT be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
We now have the great tribulation starting, Never has there been anything like it historically nor will be after it!.
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24.For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25.Behold, I have told you before.
Do you know where the secret chambers are? Get a copy of the Jerusalem Temple plans and you will see. Now it is the Lord’s second coming that puts an end to all this, so this surely is at the time of the end, not 70AD.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Jesus speaks of His second coming which as we know is right at the end of the tribulation period.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
It is at the END AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION PERIOD, when Jesus returns v 27, at His SECOND COMING that He mentions the carcase v 28 being left for the eagles to gather around.
_______________________________
Justme said
This is talked about in relation to the great tribulation. The great tribulation is the time when God deals out HIs wrath on the people who refuse to accept His word or His son.
____________________________
Because his/she doesn’t know the time factors his/her theory is blown right out the window with all the other connected theories
We are told "Immediately AFTER the tribulation" "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven" in the next verses but with much more detail, we are given a description of the second advent.
Matt 24: 29. Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the EARTH mourn, and they shall SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
__________________________________
Justme, said.
28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
This is talked about in relation to the great tribulation. The great tribulation is the time when God deals out HIs wrath on the people who refuse to accept His word or His son
__________________________________
I mean,,, come on, how negligent and needlessly repetitious is that question?
You then go a step further you seemed bewildered at the fact that I dare ask about your books quoted in post 368.
Which I asked of you in post 371.
I said "What did you mean when you quoted the Bible, Rev 20: 12. Which I highlighted in capitals."
When you made that statement, I simply asked what were you trying to say?
I re-quoted your Bible passage and highlighted the words that showed you to be completely out of touch with it.
Rev 20: 12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: and ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, WHICH IS the book OF LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their works.
You said. "The above wasn't the book of life..because..Another book was opened, which is the book of life. Singular ...one book..."
I said.
"That does not make any sense, what does it mean?"
You gave me an answer that was of no relevance whatsoever.
Do you retract your remarks about Rev 20: 12?
If you do I will forget about it.
From your post Justme 371. You asked me. "Why would I worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest."
That is what you do with Daniel 12: 2 and conveniently ignore Daniel 11: 45 & Daniel 12:1
Let me ask the same of you and repeat your question back this time about the birds.
Why would you worry about this one little thing when you have ignored all the rest?
I don’t mind questions but the "birds thing?" A little thing like the Birds?
You then ask about Daniel AGAIN and the birds as if I have avoided them even though they have been dealt with.
You have asked me several times, quote "What about, when was/is Daniel raised?"
You go on and on about me ignoring Daniel with "what about Daniel, what about Daniel, what about Daniel?"
Now you have another unimportant axe to grind about the "birds." Is it that important to you?
If so why is it important to you?
Or are you somehow trying to put the boot into Prophecy Countdown with these questions, hoping that he will trip up?
I mean really is it that important ? You keep on and on with "What about the post about the birds?" "What about the post about the birds?" "What about the post about the birds?"
You also made these careless and negative statements in post 354 even on the bases of admitting that you had never heard anyone coming up with this thing "about the Birds," before you reject it outright! Then you say "I'm going to deal with this bit about the birds."
Then you start TELLING me with exaggerated comments about "pasting the whole Bible"
Telling me to prove my point.
So I keep reading this stuff, biding my time and wait until you put both feet firmly into your mouth, because with all this false and misleading stuff you put out about me shows me you are not a Christian but a religious follower and slave to church teachings rather than the Bible.
So get this straight, I am going to knock you off your smug little perch before you frighten any new comers off this site.
You said,
Quote, "PC, I'm going to deal with this bit about the birds. And this time don't just cut and paste the whole bible, just the verses that prove your point ....about the birds...OK? I have never seen anyone come up withe this bird thing before so I'm guessing you might be on your own dealing with it and unable to use canned answers."
Matthew 24
28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
This is talked about in relation to the great tribulation. The great tribulation is the time when God deals out HIs wrath on the people who refuse to accept His word or His son.
________________________________
My reply.
I am going to enjoy doing this. By the way your timing is still way off, again let me show you why!
You still do not understand the 1260, 1335, 1290 days or the 2300 evening and morning or the time times and dividing of time, the little season, season and time, 42 months, 7 trumpets or how many days from the Passover to day of Atonement, Palmini, sides of the North, Secret room, the little horn, how the beast gets his mortal wound, the sequence, or when the 1000 years starts or end, the time of the end or the end of time the timing involved with Passover or the Jubilee in past or future prophecy.
Now I will have to start part the way through Matt because you find too much Bible tedious, but I can’t do one liners like you Justme because as you have proved it got you into a deep hole! LOL.
This is not for you Justme but for those looking and seeking
I will not bother addressing you again
In short folks, Jesus Gives us a warning in Matt 24 of His second coming being similar to that of Noah’s flood warnings. That is the straight forward intent of the Lord’s reflection of the flood recorded in Gen 6:17, and in verse 18 and so on. Jesus makes a covenant with Noah where Noah will enter the Ark with his family and be lifted up.
Gen 7:17.And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
There are many other things to this, it is about Noah having FAITH enough in God, to work for years and years building an Ark and pleading with his fellow man by inviting them in and as a result copping abuse and ridicule from them.
Now for the timing or sequence of events that ushers in the Kingdom of God.
The end comes when the "gospel of the kingdom" is preached to all the world.
Matthew 24: 14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the END COME
We are told about SEEING the abomination of desolation STANDING IN THE Holy place.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The Prophet Daniel, that Jesus mentions in relation to the abomination of desolation, gives the time period of this set up in the holy place.
Daniel 12: 11. And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate SET UP, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
When that happens for those in Judea? They are told to get out to the mountains right then and there without delay! This vision concerns the time of the end a time yet to come.
16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your FLIGHT be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
We now have the great tribulation starting, Never has there been anything like it historically nor will be after it!.
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24.For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25.Behold, I have told you before.
Do you know where the secret chambers are? Get a copy of the Jerusalem Temple plans and you will see. Now it is the Lord’s second coming that puts an end to all this, so this surely is at the time of the end, not 70AD.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Jesus speaks of His second coming which as we know is right at the end of the tribulation period.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
It is at the END AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION PERIOD, when Jesus returns v 27, at His SECOND COMING that He mentions the carcase v 28 being left for the eagles to gather around.
_______________________________
Justme said
This is talked about in relation to the great tribulation. The great tribulation is the time when God deals out HIs wrath on the people who refuse to accept His word or His son.
____________________________
Because his/she doesn’t know the time factors his/her theory is blown right out the window with all the other connected theories
We are told "Immediately AFTER the tribulation" "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven" in the next verses but with much more detail, we are given a description of the second advent.
Matt 24: 29. Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And THEN SHALL APPEAR THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN: and then shall all the tribes of the EARTH mourn, and they shall SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
__________________________________
Justme, said.
28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
This is talked about in relation to the great tribulation. The great tribulation is the time when God deals out HIs wrath on the people who refuse to accept His word or His son
__________________________________
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
My reply. Justme can’t even work out that the tribulation period is during the seven trumpet period and it is at trump 7 the elect are raised at the second coming and at that time the 15 months of Daniel 7:12 kicks in!
God gathers His people at His second coming which is after the tribulation, not during it, AFTER the resurrection of life for all in Christ, including the two witnesses at the last trump of God. Some will not be gathered up but simply left behind for 15 months.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Jesus gives another parable about the signs of His return.
Are the angels going to gather all? No only the His elect.
Are some left behind? Yes. We will get to that in a while and when we do we will deal with the 15 months..
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Watch, even though everything goes on as did in Noah’s time, many will get caught again unprepared.
37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Jesus mentions above verse that they were doing all the everyday things right up until Noah went into the Ark.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
His second coming is likened to that type of situation in Noah time. Not until it started pouring down did they suddenly realise the truth as to what was going on and as a result were left as the flood took the unprepared away to their deaths by drowning.
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Jesus says it Himself ," so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
It is at His second coming that one is taken and the other left, just like those were left to drown in the flood and as Noah was lifted and taken to safety, so shall His people be lifted up.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Who is going to be gathered and who is going to be left behind at the mill or in a field or where ever by the angels?
Only His elected are going to be gathered up, not the wicked they are going to be left behind on Earth for 15 months. Remember the 15 months when I get to it.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
41Two grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
So we are told to watch and be ready at any time.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Again the question of Faith is the greatest factor in this situation and for those with faith watching is part of the package.
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Now Jesus says more when He comes He will raise the dead then the living will be caught up with them in the clouds.
Being raised at the resurrection occurs just moments AFTER THE TRIBULATION period when Jesus rescues HIS people, the dead and living are caught up together and the wicked are left.
So when Justme says that, the birds gathering is to do with the tribulation period, that is too late because Jesus mentions it just before the great Battle So that is what happens all the time with churchly taught falk who jump into an argument without reasoning out the facts properly..
AGAIN I have dealt with Daniel and the resurrection and the "birds" in post 372 and repeated most of the things before, so again from past posts.
The 15 months and the birds stuff will all come together soon!
However here goes again but from more Bible verses to widen the picture and verify the sequence again absolutely biblical.
Rev 19: please follow with your Bibles.
"The righteous are blessed for being at the wedding supper in verse 9."
"Jesus is the spirit of prophecy verse 10."
"Jesus doeth judge the wicked verse 11, who WERE LEFT back on Earth waiting for 15 months. Dan 7:12."
Lets see how the Bible answers two questions here. Dan 7:12.As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. =15 months.
Now if you want read the same story look at Daniel 7 you will see that it is the same beings, creatures and people involved in Rev chapters 19: 20: and 21.
"Jesus gets ready in Heaven with His armies to make war with the "remnant" left on Earth who were not a part of the first resurrection of life in verses 11, 12,13."
Now Daniel tells us of the time period that this all fits within after the tribulation period, at His second coming the wicked are left behind and they are allowed to live for 15 months, Dan 7:12 then they are killed with the sword of Him.
Daniel 7:11. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12.As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Daniel 7: 14. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. 18 But THE SAINTS of the most High shall TAKE THE KINGDOM, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
We now have the same scene in Rev 19: 1. And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Within the time of only 15 months we have the battle of Armageddon where all those left, in Matt 24 referred to as the "remnant" are put to the sword. Only Jesus calls to gather the birds to eat the bodies of the soon to be vanquished. At Armageddon, this is the great Battle and of course there are going to be bodies everywhere.
Compare what Jesus said after He comes at the second coming "For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."
Jesus is about to put the wicked to the sword again I say Justme is wrong about the birds having anything to do with the tribulation period, Boy oh boy, I mentioned it because Jesus did and she or he makes a big issue out of it!
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19And I saw the beast, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
The tribulation period was where some worshiped the beast and were left and not gathered up by the angels. They wait and fight at Armageddon then where their bodies lay the birds will gather to eat them.. It’s that simple.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
"Jesus heads back to Earth to put the wicked to the sword with His armies from Heaven which includes the righteous risen at the first resurrection in verse 14."
"We see God rule the nations with the rod of iron and see His wrath on them here on Earth verse 14, then verses 15, we see His name in verse 16, and see Him call the birds to eat the flesh of the wicked and in 17, 18. We see in the vision, of the armies of Earth gathered, that is the wicked left and not part of the first resurrection in verse 19, the beast and false prophet are killed in verse 20, the remnant, those left by the mill or field or wherever on Earth are put to the sword within 15 months see Dan 1:12 and then eaten by the birds."
"Luke 17:35.Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
"The ones left are to become birds food."
"37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
"After the battle of Armageddon spoken of in Rev 16:16."
"We get in Rev 20: 1, 2, 3, Satan being bound 1000 years, made to be quiet being the little horn who was boasting in Daniel 7:11."
"So we have studied that the righteous who go through the tribulation and are given judgement DURING THE 1000 YEARS, against the wicked dead in verse 4 as they the wicked remain dead until the 1000 years are finished in verse 5, in verse 6 after the 1st resurrection those who are in Heaven have no worries about the second death that occurs just after the second resurrection, in verse 7, Satan is loosed to deceive the wicked who are resurrected after the 1000 years when Satan is released to deceive them into battle verse 9."
"Rev 20: 9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
"11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH AND THE HEAVEN FLED AWAY; and there was found no place for them."
God gathers His people at His second coming which is after the tribulation, not during it, AFTER the resurrection of life for all in Christ, including the two witnesses at the last trump of God. Some will not be gathered up but simply left behind for 15 months.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Jesus gives another parable about the signs of His return.
Are the angels going to gather all? No only the His elect.
Are some left behind? Yes. We will get to that in a while and when we do we will deal with the 15 months..
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Watch, even though everything goes on as did in Noah’s time, many will get caught again unprepared.
37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Jesus mentions above verse that they were doing all the everyday things right up until Noah went into the Ark.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
His second coming is likened to that type of situation in Noah time. Not until it started pouring down did they suddenly realise the truth as to what was going on and as a result were left as the flood took the unprepared away to their deaths by drowning.
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Jesus says it Himself ," so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
It is at His second coming that one is taken and the other left, just like those were left to drown in the flood and as Noah was lifted and taken to safety, so shall His people be lifted up.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Who is going to be gathered and who is going to be left behind at the mill or in a field or where ever by the angels?
Only His elected are going to be gathered up, not the wicked they are going to be left behind on Earth for 15 months. Remember the 15 months when I get to it.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
41Two grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
So we are told to watch and be ready at any time.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Again the question of Faith is the greatest factor in this situation and for those with faith watching is part of the package.
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Now Jesus says more when He comes He will raise the dead then the living will be caught up with them in the clouds.
Being raised at the resurrection occurs just moments AFTER THE TRIBULATION period when Jesus rescues HIS people, the dead and living are caught up together and the wicked are left.
So when Justme says that, the birds gathering is to do with the tribulation period, that is too late because Jesus mentions it just before the great Battle So that is what happens all the time with churchly taught falk who jump into an argument without reasoning out the facts properly..
AGAIN I have dealt with Daniel and the resurrection and the "birds" in post 372 and repeated most of the things before, so again from past posts.
The 15 months and the birds stuff will all come together soon!
However here goes again but from more Bible verses to widen the picture and verify the sequence again absolutely biblical.
Rev 19: please follow with your Bibles.
"The righteous are blessed for being at the wedding supper in verse 9."
"Jesus is the spirit of prophecy verse 10."
"Jesus doeth judge the wicked verse 11, who WERE LEFT back on Earth waiting for 15 months. Dan 7:12."
Lets see how the Bible answers two questions here. Dan 7:12.As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. =15 months.
Now if you want read the same story look at Daniel 7 you will see that it is the same beings, creatures and people involved in Rev chapters 19: 20: and 21.
"Jesus gets ready in Heaven with His armies to make war with the "remnant" left on Earth who were not a part of the first resurrection of life in verses 11, 12,13."
Now Daniel tells us of the time period that this all fits within after the tribulation period, at His second coming the wicked are left behind and they are allowed to live for 15 months, Dan 7:12 then they are killed with the sword of Him.
Daniel 7:11. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12.As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Daniel 7: 14. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
15I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. 18 But THE SAINTS of the most High shall TAKE THE KINGDOM, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
We now have the same scene in Rev 19: 1. And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Within the time of only 15 months we have the battle of Armageddon where all those left, in Matt 24 referred to as the "remnant" are put to the sword. Only Jesus calls to gather the birds to eat the bodies of the soon to be vanquished. At Armageddon, this is the great Battle and of course there are going to be bodies everywhere.
Compare what Jesus said after He comes at the second coming "For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."
Jesus is about to put the wicked to the sword again I say Justme is wrong about the birds having anything to do with the tribulation period, Boy oh boy, I mentioned it because Jesus did and she or he makes a big issue out of it!
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19And I saw the beast, and the KINGS OF THE EARTH, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
The tribulation period was where some worshiped the beast and were left and not gathered up by the angels. They wait and fight at Armageddon then where their bodies lay the birds will gather to eat them.. It’s that simple.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
"Jesus heads back to Earth to put the wicked to the sword with His armies from Heaven which includes the righteous risen at the first resurrection in verse 14."
"We see God rule the nations with the rod of iron and see His wrath on them here on Earth verse 14, then verses 15, we see His name in verse 16, and see Him call the birds to eat the flesh of the wicked and in 17, 18. We see in the vision, of the armies of Earth gathered, that is the wicked left and not part of the first resurrection in verse 19, the beast and false prophet are killed in verse 20, the remnant, those left by the mill or field or wherever on Earth are put to the sword within 15 months see Dan 1:12 and then eaten by the birds."
"Luke 17:35.Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
"The ones left are to become birds food."
"37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
"After the battle of Armageddon spoken of in Rev 16:16."
"We get in Rev 20: 1, 2, 3, Satan being bound 1000 years, made to be quiet being the little horn who was boasting in Daniel 7:11."
"So we have studied that the righteous who go through the tribulation and are given judgement DURING THE 1000 YEARS, against the wicked dead in verse 4 as they the wicked remain dead until the 1000 years are finished in verse 5, in verse 6 after the 1st resurrection those who are in Heaven have no worries about the second death that occurs just after the second resurrection, in verse 7, Satan is loosed to deceive the wicked who are resurrected after the 1000 years when Satan is released to deceive them into battle verse 9."
"Rev 20: 9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
"11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH AND THE HEAVEN FLED AWAY; and there was found no place for them."
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
"We now get to the Books again. Not only were they used in the resurrection of life in Daniel 7: 10 at the end of the tribulation period WHICH ends when the beast is killed in Daniel 7: 12 and where the wicked are left in Dan 7: 12 for a season and time to be put to the sword after the beast is killed with the false prophet in Rev 19:14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and eaten by the birds in verse 20."
"We have all the books being used in the first resurrection and in the second resurrection of damnation which is recorded after the event in the following verses."
"12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the BOOKS were opened: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS PENED, WHICH is the book of LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their WORKS."
"As we have studied already the righteous raised at the first resurrection of life, after the tribulation period, judge the wicked dead , during the 1000 years after the wicked remnant are killed with the sword of HIM with the righteous in white being included in the Heavenly armies Rev 19: 14 to 21."
"There are no righteous to be saved in these next verses because they ARE NOT MENTIONED AT ALL."
"Not until the wicked are put to death by the sword in Rev19:21, are the WICKED DEAD judged in 20:4, by the righteous raised at the resurrection of life that’s how the righteous manage to live easily for a 1000 years and forever."
Now for the record of what happened to the wicked, after the sentence was carried out?
"13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."
"14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire."
"Were the wicked found in the book of life? NO."
"15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
"I do not agree with Justme because he/she is not backed up by the Bible in this matter at all."
======== ========= =========
So that takes care of the question about Daniel’s resurrection and the "birds."
By the way I do NOT have to answer questions that I consider nonsensical or sarcastic therefore lacking in depth even though I have done so on many occasions.
Let me remind Justme that I do NOT have to answer to her/him either as to what I do answer or don’t answer.
So, to Justme I would say don’t concern yourself, with these matters they are for me to consider, not you.
Justme said. From post 47, "I don't know if you want to defend your case that's rested or not, but if you do I will put forth some questions and comments. If you don't want to defend it that is your business and we both just carry on."
I would just say to Justme, stick with what you stated originally.
Justme, said
Back to the resurrection at the parousia or near the parousia.....
You then re-quoted me below.
Also this applies to Daniel. The resurrection "to everlasting life" is mentioned first. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life."
Then Justme you said.
Then you stop!!!!!!!!!!!
==== ======== ======
My reply.
I did not stop. Did you not read the last post number 372?
Obviously you chose to ignore it!
You ignored or have forgotten this statement when I re-quoted in post 372. Where I also said. That, "that was the first resurrection. Where the dead, like Daniel are raised FIRST THEN the living are caught up together with them."
"No mention of fire coming down from Heaven as there is at the second resurrection. see Rev 20:9."
That was said by me.
"From post 259."
You asked me.
"Where is Daniel?"
I answered and said.
"For the Bible answer. See Daniel 12:13."
"You ask "Where is Daniel?"
Read on and the Bible will let you know."
"1. How can we fix the "time of trouble?" we will see the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem. At the end of the tribulation period.
"AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED,"
"What occurs at "the time of trouble?" The Bible says God’s people are delivered. Bible quote "EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
"3. Are any of the wicked found in the book of life?
Bible answer says only those "thy people," "found written in the book"
are delivered.
Bible verification was then given by me.
"Daniel 12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of THY PEOPLE: and THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
"You ask where is Daniel?
I said "I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and "we who are alive will be caught up with them together."
Justme, then asked me this next question
Quote. "BUT you are aware that many of those that sleep in the dust shall awake....
WHEN?
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.
At that time of the great tribulation talked about in verse 1, that is when those talked about will be raised.
==== ======== ========
My reply.
Justme, we have been over this before.
You said the following AFTER my post 365
____________________________________
Quote. "Daniel is one of those who will SLEEP IN THE DUST."
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."
When is that again? When do they peek into the book of life? That is when Daniel is raised to receive his allotted inheritance.
"There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered."
"That my friend is the great tribulation which is :"
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[3]
the Son of Man
will appear
The coming of the son of man is IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great tribulation not thousands of years after.
Which brings us to this pesky little verse that you have not spoken much about which says: 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
______________ __________________
Justme said ."The coming of the son of man is IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great tribulation not thousands of years after."
_________________________________
My reply.
Nobody said thousands of years later. The second coming occurs and puts an end to the tribulation period.
I’m sorry folks but I get a little sick and tired of these moronic arguments and false statements accredited to me ,,, sorry but I’ve had enough!
My reply was.
Now as I have said we have been through this before Justme, in post 113 which deals with Daniel 12: 1. So you are repeating things dealt with by me before and are not enlightening anyone.
___________________________________
Please not folks before I continue, I would like to bring your attention to where Satan builds his tabernacle, which is to be built on the mount at the sides of the North, as I said quoting the Bible from Matt 24 26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."
The secret room is where they will say we should look for Christ. If the temple is a replica built by Satan at the time of the end spoken of by Daniel then the secret room will be where he sits.
Isaiah 14: O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
____________________________________
Part quote from post 113.
A Justme quote, she asked.
What Holy place, is there on Earth?
Bible. Hebrews 9:25.
"Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the HOLY PLACE every year with blood of others."
_____________________________
Justme said, So the only place left is the HOLY HILL. Because as Justme says the Temple is "Kapoot" which I think means kaput.
Bible.
Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
So this person in the last verse is going to "plant his tabernacle," "between the seas in the glorious holy mountain." So the Lamb that speaks like a dragon is going to build his Tabernacle "in the glorious holy mountain."
Satan needs it, to sit in it, he says "I will be like the Most High.
Now the next question is, at what TIME will he do it? And what will happen when he does?
"We have all the books being used in the first resurrection and in the second resurrection of damnation which is recorded after the event in the following verses."
"12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the BOOKS were opened: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS PENED, WHICH is the book of LIFE: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the BOOKS, according to their WORKS."
"As we have studied already the righteous raised at the first resurrection of life, after the tribulation period, judge the wicked dead , during the 1000 years after the wicked remnant are killed with the sword of HIM with the righteous in white being included in the Heavenly armies Rev 19: 14 to 21."
"There are no righteous to be saved in these next verses because they ARE NOT MENTIONED AT ALL."
"Not until the wicked are put to death by the sword in Rev19:21, are the WICKED DEAD judged in 20:4, by the righteous raised at the resurrection of life that’s how the righteous manage to live easily for a 1000 years and forever."
Now for the record of what happened to the wicked, after the sentence was carried out?
"13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."
"14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire."
"Were the wicked found in the book of life? NO."
"15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
"I do not agree with Justme because he/she is not backed up by the Bible in this matter at all."
======== ========= =========
So that takes care of the question about Daniel’s resurrection and the "birds."
By the way I do NOT have to answer questions that I consider nonsensical or sarcastic therefore lacking in depth even though I have done so on many occasions.
Let me remind Justme that I do NOT have to answer to her/him either as to what I do answer or don’t answer.
So, to Justme I would say don’t concern yourself, with these matters they are for me to consider, not you.
Justme said. From post 47, "I don't know if you want to defend your case that's rested or not, but if you do I will put forth some questions and comments. If you don't want to defend it that is your business and we both just carry on."
I would just say to Justme, stick with what you stated originally.
Justme, said
Back to the resurrection at the parousia or near the parousia.....
You then re-quoted me below.
Also this applies to Daniel. The resurrection "to everlasting life" is mentioned first. "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life."
Then Justme you said.
Then you stop!!!!!!!!!!!
==== ======== ======
My reply.
I did not stop. Did you not read the last post number 372?
Obviously you chose to ignore it!
You ignored or have forgotten this statement when I re-quoted in post 372. Where I also said. That, "that was the first resurrection. Where the dead, like Daniel are raised FIRST THEN the living are caught up together with them."
"No mention of fire coming down from Heaven as there is at the second resurrection. see Rev 20:9."
That was said by me.
"From post 259."
You asked me.
"Where is Daniel?"
I answered and said.
"For the Bible answer. See Daniel 12:13."
"You ask "Where is Daniel?"
Read on and the Bible will let you know."
"1. How can we fix the "time of trouble?" we will see the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem. At the end of the tribulation period.
"AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED,"
"What occurs at "the time of trouble?" The Bible says God’s people are delivered. Bible quote "EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
"3. Are any of the wicked found in the book of life?
Bible answer says only those "thy people," "found written in the book"
are delivered.
Bible verification was then given by me.
"Daniel 12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of THY PEOPLE: and THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
"You ask where is Daniel?
I said "I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and "we who are alive will be caught up with them together."
Justme, then asked me this next question
Quote. "BUT you are aware that many of those that sleep in the dust shall awake....
WHEN?
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.
At that time of the great tribulation talked about in verse 1, that is when those talked about will be raised.
==== ======== ========
My reply.
Justme, we have been over this before.
You said the following AFTER my post 365
____________________________________
Quote. "Daniel is one of those who will SLEEP IN THE DUST."
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."
When is that again? When do they peek into the book of life? That is when Daniel is raised to receive his allotted inheritance.
"There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered."
"That my friend is the great tribulation which is :"
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[3]
the Son of Man
will appear
The coming of the son of man is IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great tribulation not thousands of years after.
Which brings us to this pesky little verse that you have not spoken much about which says: 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
______________ __________________
Justme said ."The coming of the son of man is IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great tribulation not thousands of years after."
_________________________________
My reply.
Nobody said thousands of years later. The second coming occurs and puts an end to the tribulation period.
I’m sorry folks but I get a little sick and tired of these moronic arguments and false statements accredited to me ,,, sorry but I’ve had enough!
My reply was.
Now as I have said we have been through this before Justme, in post 113 which deals with Daniel 12: 1. So you are repeating things dealt with by me before and are not enlightening anyone.
___________________________________
Please not folks before I continue, I would like to bring your attention to where Satan builds his tabernacle, which is to be built on the mount at the sides of the North, as I said quoting the Bible from Matt 24 26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."
The secret room is where they will say we should look for Christ. If the temple is a replica built by Satan at the time of the end spoken of by Daniel then the secret room will be where he sits.
Isaiah 14: O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
____________________________________
Part quote from post 113.
A Justme quote, she asked.
What Holy place, is there on Earth?
Bible. Hebrews 9:25.
"Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the HOLY PLACE every year with blood of others."
_____________________________
Justme said, So the only place left is the HOLY HILL. Because as Justme says the Temple is "Kapoot" which I think means kaput.
Bible.
Daniel 11:45. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
So this person in the last verse is going to "plant his tabernacle," "between the seas in the glorious holy mountain." So the Lamb that speaks like a dragon is going to build his Tabernacle "in the glorious holy mountain."
Satan needs it, to sit in it, he says "I will be like the Most High.
Now the next question is, at what TIME will he do it? And what will happen when he does?
Upvote
0
Prophecy Countdown
Senior Member
- Oct 26, 2002
- 683
- 3
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- UK-Conservative
THE BIBLE'S VERY NEXT VERSE TELLS US.
Dan12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall MICHAEL STAND UP, the GREAT PRINCE which STANDETH for the CHILDREN of THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, every one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.
So he will do it at "the time of the end" spoken of in Daniel 12:11. For 1290 days. That is just before the first resurrection at trumpet number 7.
The next question, is how long will he Satan, get away with it?
Daniel is given the answer.
Daniel 12:11. And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
So the answer is, about 3 ½ years. See, the question in Dan 12:5-7.
For how long things shall these wonders be allowed to go on for until the end.
When the last angel's trumpet sounds then the mystery of God will be understood. See, Rev 10:6-7.
"Justme, you must open your eyes, the seventh trumpet in Rev 11 occurs at the FIRST RESURRECTION AT THE TIME OF THE END, that is not back in 70AD."
Justme you said "So I showed when the end of the ages was using Hebrews 9:26. Sin came along for the ride."
So I said. " Even though I have dealt with Hebrews 9:26 earlier I will do so again."
We still have the seventh trumpet, which is STILL a real problem for Justme.
The Bible makes it absolutely clear, that the seventh trumpet occurs at the "time of the end" at the FIRST RESURRECTION.
_______________________
That is the resurrection of life.
That is before the 1000 years starts. So Daniel is raised at the resurrection of life before the 1000 years starts. Daniel is NOT raised with the wicked after the 1000 years to be deluded by Satan then burned by Jesus, and that is all that happens to those raised at the resurrection of damnation AFTER THE 1000 YEARS.
________________________
Justme you said 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Daniel has fallen asleep,anybody alive at the parousia, WILL NOT BE RAISED BEFORE THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP.
Daniel was asleep, but guess what...the wicked were asleep too. AND those alive at the parousia can not precede them either.
Justme you said "It matters not how you slice it PC, the rest of the dead do not come to life until after the 1000 year reign with Chriist. That 1000 year reign must occur prior to the parousia, not after it."
_________________________________
My reply was.
The above shows that you mistakenly think that the millennium is before the second coming! To do that you forget Rev 19 and 20 in their proper order which can be verified by the events which we have already studied.
Justme you said. "Would you like to see it with the birds too?"
My reply. No! but it’s better than being off with the fairies!
Sadly though it will happen when I join the army with you in Rev 19: 14, that’s if you get the timing right and don’t get deceived.
Matt 24:24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.
You asked me quote.
"How about Rev 11?"
I have dealt with Rev 11 before.
In Posts 56, 57, 58 and 59.
I have dealt with Daniel’s resurrection in posts 91,92,113 which deals with Daniel 12:1. Those left for the birds was dealt with in post 351, 359, 372.
You have given your opinion which you said would be, quote, "one last look at this resurrection deal" in post 356.
So,,,, at the risk of boring everyone, to tears by all means you go ahead and repeat it by yourself, give a detailed review of every verse word for word of Rev 11 if you want and I will decide, whether I want to answer you, or even participate for that matter.
One thing you can’t do is put Daniel and Revelation together. Prove yourself and show us Rev 19. 20. 21. and 22 Daniel 7.8.9.10.11 12.
Dan12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall MICHAEL STAND UP, the GREAT PRINCE which STANDETH for the CHILDREN of THY PEOPLE: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, every one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.
So he will do it at "the time of the end" spoken of in Daniel 12:11. For 1290 days. That is just before the first resurrection at trumpet number 7.
The next question, is how long will he Satan, get away with it?
Daniel is given the answer.
Daniel 12:11. And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
So the answer is, about 3 ½ years. See, the question in Dan 12:5-7.
For how long things shall these wonders be allowed to go on for until the end.
When the last angel's trumpet sounds then the mystery of God will be understood. See, Rev 10:6-7.
"Justme, you must open your eyes, the seventh trumpet in Rev 11 occurs at the FIRST RESURRECTION AT THE TIME OF THE END, that is not back in 70AD."
Justme you said "So I showed when the end of the ages was using Hebrews 9:26. Sin came along for the ride."
So I said. " Even though I have dealt with Hebrews 9:26 earlier I will do so again."
We still have the seventh trumpet, which is STILL a real problem for Justme.
The Bible makes it absolutely clear, that the seventh trumpet occurs at the "time of the end" at the FIRST RESURRECTION.
_______________________
That is the resurrection of life.
That is before the 1000 years starts. So Daniel is raised at the resurrection of life before the 1000 years starts. Daniel is NOT raised with the wicked after the 1000 years to be deluded by Satan then burned by Jesus, and that is all that happens to those raised at the resurrection of damnation AFTER THE 1000 YEARS.
________________________
Justme you said 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
Daniel has fallen asleep,anybody alive at the parousia, WILL NOT BE RAISED BEFORE THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP.
Daniel was asleep, but guess what...the wicked were asleep too. AND those alive at the parousia can not precede them either.
Justme you said "It matters not how you slice it PC, the rest of the dead do not come to life until after the 1000 year reign with Chriist. That 1000 year reign must occur prior to the parousia, not after it."
_________________________________
My reply was.
The above shows that you mistakenly think that the millennium is before the second coming! To do that you forget Rev 19 and 20 in their proper order which can be verified by the events which we have already studied.
Justme you said. "Would you like to see it with the birds too?"
My reply. No! but it’s better than being off with the fairies!
Sadly though it will happen when I join the army with you in Rev 19: 14, that’s if you get the timing right and don’t get deceived.
Matt 24:24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.
You asked me quote.
"How about Rev 11?"
I have dealt with Rev 11 before.
In Posts 56, 57, 58 and 59.
I have dealt with Daniel’s resurrection in posts 91,92,113 which deals with Daniel 12:1. Those left for the birds was dealt with in post 351, 359, 372.
You have given your opinion which you said would be, quote, "one last look at this resurrection deal" in post 356.
So,,,, at the risk of boring everyone, to tears by all means you go ahead and repeat it by yourself, give a detailed review of every verse word for word of Rev 11 if you want and I will decide, whether I want to answer you, or even participate for that matter.
One thing you can’t do is put Daniel and Revelation together. Prove yourself and show us Rev 19. 20. 21. and 22 Daniel 7.8.9.10.11 12.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
