Abomination of desolation

[Justme]

Hi Atkin,

You asked:
I do not find the term parousia in my question too, I merely asked your opinion when the 1000 year reign started, not an issue about parousia.

The two are biblically connected. The 1000 year reign with Christ is prior to the parousia.

Justme

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Acts 24:15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

John 9: 25. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


The writer DOES NOT STATE that they occur at different times. Why assume otherwise.?

Revelation 20:4-5 is THE ONLY TEXT THAT separates the two. That is the only text separating them, but it onlyu mentions beheaded souls as first resurrectors.NOTHING ELSE IN REVELATION 20:4 about other Christian dead.

THE MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS who were NOT BEHEADED for their faith in Jesus and who DIED OF NATURAL CAUSES in the hundreds of years after Christ right up till THE 16th, 17th, 18th through till 20th and even 21st century, ARE NOT MENTIONED in Revelation 20:4

Revelation 20:6 Blessed are those who take part in the 1st resurrection, and they are ONLY THOSE beheaded saints etc WHO REIGN with Christ for 1000 years..... that does not include that Christian who died of natural causes in New York City in 1967 etc

Of course people will resurrect to EXPERIENCE TWO different futures, Etenal life and Eternal condemnation

Acts 24:15. in no way states that they OCCUR AT DIFFERENT TIMES, they are resurrections to 2 different futures that is all

REVELATIONS 20:4-6 Teaches the SEPARATION by 1000 years of two resurrections, but IT DOES NOT teach THAT ALL CHRISTIANS AND ALL BELIEVERS IN GOD WILL BE RAISED before the 1000 years.
Revelation 20:4 MENTIONS ONLY THE murdered, beheaded souls, killed for their love and faith in God and Christ.

****************************
DANIEL NEVER STATES THAT THERE WILL BE A TIME PERIOD between the resurrection in Daniel 12

Of course, there are two different futures AFTER THE RESURRECTION.... some people to eternal life and some people to eternal torment.

DANIEL 12 DOES NOT STATE anything more concerning time between those who live eternally after the resurrection and those who face torment after resurrection.

Greetings.

Wills quote.
“Acts 24:15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
John 9: 25. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
The writer DOES NOT STATE that they occur at different times. Why assume otherwise.?”


My reply.
I think you are the one that’s “assuming” things only based on two verses of John 5:25 and Acts 24:15.

Do the writers use the words there will be a resurrection of the just and unjust. “TOGETHER,” or at the “SAME TIME?”
Answer. No they do not!
So why do you “assume otherwise” that it is at the “same time” based on the two verses you quote, that say no such thing?

Show me in the Bible, where it says the condemned and saved come up together at exactly the same time, as you propose?

Some of those that are a part of the resurrection to life have been raised already, so whose assuming?

Matt 27:50. At once the curtain in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, and rocks split apart. 52 Graves opened, and MANY of God’s people were raised to life. 53 They left their graves, and after Jesus had risen to life, they went into the holy city, where they were seen by many people.

Were any of the UNJUST RAISED in Matt 27:50 ?
NO!

When are some of “the dead in Christ” Saints raised first?

Answer. AT HIS SECOND COMING!


1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND FORM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:
17. Then WE which are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHERWITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Do the above verses say anything about the wicked being raised “at the same time as the dead or living?”
Answer. NO!

So do we have the first part of the resurrection unto life happening at DIFFERENT TIMES?
Answer. Yes we do, because that’s what the Bible says and not just me!


Who are going to be raised, is it just the beheaded and nobody else?
Answer NO!

Daniel 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED EVERY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.
How many are raised? “Thy people written in the book.” Not just some of God’s people but “EVERYONE” of them!
Do the above verses say anything about the wicked being raised “at the same time?”.
Answer. NO because they are not in the book of life!

So we have the first part of the resurrection unto life happening at DIFFERENT TIMES! Rev 20.
“This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Have the wicked living or dead been raised yet in these last verses unto the resurrection of life?
Answer, NO!
They without faith, are left behind.
Luke 17;36. Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luke 17:37. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

They will be put to the sword at ARMAGEDDON after the second advent within 15 months mentioned in Daniel 7:12.
What happens to their bodies?
Rev 19:18. That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all free and bond, both small and great.

Those that are dead at the time of the second advent, that are not in the Book of life STAY STONE COLD DEAD, eccept the guards that pierced Jesus.

{I have been through Rev 19: 1 to 21. Rev 3: 1 to 10. and Rev 16:16. concerning Armageddon occurring after the wedding supper and the blessing of Daniel 12: 12. So I am not repeating it again.}

What about the wicked dead and when does the resurrection of damnation occur?

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
So now we know that the “Resurrection of life” occurs, for some at the resurrection of Christ, and then for “EVERYONE” THAT ARE FOUND IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, at the second advent. Daniel 12;1 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

“To that same time: and AT THAT TIME thy PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED EVERY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.”

The resurrection of damnation OCCURS a thousand years later.

Rev 20:3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, TILL THE THOUSAND YEARS should be fulfilled: and after that he must be LOOSED A LITTLE SEASON.

Satan is imprisoned at the beginning of the 1000 years after that time the resurrection of the wicked will occur.
Then Satan deceives them and they are ALL destroyed.
Does the Bible say the righteous are raised at that time?

Answer. No, there is no mention of the righteous as being raised at that same time.

Rev 20;8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD out of heaven, and DEVOURED THEM. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Two groups will have different resurrections at different times, biblically proven with above verses.
Does that conflict with John 5:29 or Acts 24:15?
Answer. NO, of course not.

Wills’ statement.
Revelation 20:4-5 is THE ONLY TEXT THAT separates the two. That is the only text separating them, but it onlyu mentions beheaded souls as first resurrectors.NOTHING ELSE IN REVELATION 20:4 about other Christian dead.
THE MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS who were NOT BEHEADED for their faith in Jesus and who DIED OF NATURAL CAUSES in the hundreds of years after Christ right up till THE 16th, 17th, 18th through till 20th and even 21st century, ARE NOT MENTIONED in Revelation 20:4

My reply.
What about Daniel 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME thy PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED EVERY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK?

“Everyone,” that means,,,, ALL,,, that are written in the book of life are raised at the second advent.

Revelation 20:4 is referring to some that are raised among many and "I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them."
Rev 20:4. does not exclude ALL just because it speaks of those that are given authority to judge and reign for a 1000 years!
Daniel refers to ALL raised,
Matt 27:52.And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

Wills. Quote.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed are those who take part in the 1st resurrection, and they are ONLY THOSE beheaded saints etc WHO REIGN with Christ for 1000 years..... that does not include that Christian who died of natural causes in New York City in 1967 etc


My reply.
The next verse does not exclude them either.
Rev 20:6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

How many are standing on the sea of glass?
Does the Bible say that the next group to reign have been slain?
No, it does not.

Rev 5:9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast REDEEMED US TO GOD by THY BLOOD OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, and TONGUE, and PEOPLE, and NATION; 10And hast made us unto our God KINGS and PRIESTS: and WE SHALL REIGN on the earth.
How can only those SLAIN be resurrected when EVERY CREATURE IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH IS SAYING the following?

Rev 5:13. And EVERY CREATURE which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Wills quote.
DANIEL NEVER STATES THAT THERE WILL BE A TIME PERIOD between the resurrection in Daniel 12
Of course, there are two different futures AFTER THE RESURRECTION.... some people to eternal life and some people to eternal torment.
DANIEL 12 DOES NOT STATE anything more concerning time between those who live eternally after the resurrection and those who face torment after resurrection.

My reply.
I never said that Daniel12:2 mentioned the thousand years.
However, Revelation does.

By your reasoning then, Wills Daniel doesn’t mention the false prophet either when he speaks of the beast in Daniel 7:11.
Daniel 7:11. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even TILL THE BEAST WAS SLAIN, and his body destroyed, and GIVEN TO THE BURNING FLAME.

Was the FALSE PROPHET MENTIONED by Daniel?
Answer. NO!
Do we then forget about the false prophet or the 1000 years, because Daniel 7:11. does not mention them?

Answer. NO of course not, because to do so would be plain stupid.
Rev 19: 19.Is the same story but with more light.

Rev 19:19. And I saw the BEAST, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20And the BEAST WAS TAKEN, AND WITH HIM THE FALSE PROPHET that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These BOTH WERE CAST ALIVE into a LAKE OF FIRE burning with brimstone

Daniel 7: 11.says the beast was “slain” “then his body destroyed then given to the burning flame,” yet John says the beast with the false prophet were thrown into the fire “alive!”
We have to use our God given intelligence and realise that men wrote the Bible and men are not perfect and neither are the translators of this wonderful Book called the BIBLE.
Is there a problem with the intent of the story?

No! The meaning is plain and clear.

Some like to claim that “the 1000 years has started already” to bring the two resurrections together as one, but that can’t be because Daniel 7:11 and Rev 19:20. Have not been fulfilled yet.

These things can only happen when the second advent occurs, then Armageddon in Rev 16:16. Will go ahead. Satan will then be imprisoned for the millennium and after the 1000 years the dead, not found in the book of life will be raised at the resurrection of damnation.
Satan will be released and all will be killed with fire from God suffering the second death.


Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown.

 

[Justme]

Hi PC,

Your posts are not addressed to me, but I have an idea that I would like you to look at.

Your story has ALL goodie-goodies, those written in the book:

“To that same time: and AT THAT TIME thy PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED EVERY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.”

The resurrection of damnation OCCURS a thousand years later.
***********************

Let's go with that.

So now we have this verse from Daniel 12:

2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Please note these are DEAD people, sleeping in the dust. They have to 'sleep' in the dust because they DIED prior to the redeeming happenings of Christ's first advent.

We are going to accept your conclusion that these are the ones of the first resurrection and are only the good guys or at least that only good guys are selected from it.

AFTER 1000 years there is a resurrection of the bad guys.

Now I want you to look at 1 Thess 4: 15, not verse 16, but verse 15 which says:

15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Here we learn that some are still alive and remain at the time of the parousia.

It doesn't matterr if this resurrection of those who sleep are good guys or bad guys, what matters is the bible tells us that those who are alive at the parousia will NOT PRECEDE those who sleep in the dirt.

Now PC, my best guess is that the great tribulation is going to start on September 30, 2003.

First, where is the 1000 year reign with Christ?

You can't join into this 1000 year reign because it's already going.
You sure don't want to fit in with your second resurrection because they are the bad guys. These absolutely have no chance of being raised until AFTER the 1000 years Rev 20 4. And those living at the time of the parousia CAN NOT PRECEDE the bad guys. Where are you? Where is there talk of a third resurrection for the GOOD guys?

Remeber that some are raised to good and some are shamed and this takes place at the time of the great tribulation. Is the great tribulation 1000 years long?

My biggest question to you is what part of your belief system falls if there is not a second resurrection of only the wicked. I can tell you it wouldn't matter to me.


Justme.

 

[Atkin]

Hi Atkin,

You asked:
I do not find the term parousia in my question too, I merely asked your opinion when the 1000 year reign started, not an issue about parousia.

The two are biblically connected. The 1000 year reign with Christ is prior to the parousia.

Justme

You claimed in your previous post that parousia should not be discussed here and I am NOT asking anything about that... irrespective of its connection.. the rules are clear as you said. Avoid that.

When did the 1000 years begin and since the beginning of the 1000 years is also biblically connected to the first resurrection (Rev 20:4), state the approximate time- century of the first resurrection.

again,

1--when did the 1000 years start ??
2--and when did the first resurrection take place.?

Simple questions.

 

[Atkin]

Justme,,,,
There is no statement that says there is some other time for the *****ed to rise. There is only mention of that one time ..that of the great tribulation.
Yes, as you say those whose name is written in the book will rise, but they will rise at the time of the great tribulation.

No that’s not what the Bible says.
The resurrection of life happens AT HIS SECOND COMING.
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND from HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST:

17. THEN WE which are ALIVE and remain SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
How plain is that?

That was the first resurrection. Where the dead, like Daniel are raised FIRST THEN the living are caught up together with them.


Justme’s quote.
“From this we learn that Daniel's people and all those whose name is written in the book will be delivered. Raised to heaven.
When will this happen? At the time of the great tribulation. It doesn't say before, during or after ..just at that time.”

My reply
Compare Justme’s statement, claiming “there is only one resurrection at one time,” with the following verses. Look at the difference between the first resurrection and this second one after the 1000 years

Which resurrection took place AS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.?
You first claimed that ALL THE JUST ARE RAISED one time...

ProphecyCountdown writes- No that’s not what the Bible says.
The resurrection of life happens AT HIS SECOND COMING.


Why was only one group OF JUST RAISED over 1900 years ago IN MATTHEW 27:52?
Why was just that group raised FIRST and WHY will there be another RESURRECTION OF THE JUST?

If so, why does the Bible NOT SPEAK OF TWO RESURRECTIONS of the just. That is, the FIRST RESURRECTION OF THE JUST.... MATTHEW 27:52 Took place around 33AD, 1st century


Then after over 2000 years , after the 20th century, ANOTHER RESURRECTION of the just.. that is in our future.
You have some inconsistencies SINCE YOU NOW SPEAK OF TWO RESURRECTIONS OF THE JUST.

IF THE FIRST RESURRECTION Matthew 27:52, took place in 33AD, then the 1000 years followed soon after that.. as you imply.

THE FIRST RESURRECTION is not divided into 2 by 2000+ year gap.

Do NOT erroneously IMPLY that the Bible teaches TWO SETS OF FIRST RESURRECTIONS... you cannot misconstrue the Bible and present it as what the Bible says.

this below is Clearly false
FIRST RESURRECTION step ONE Matthew 27:52 33AD

THEN first resurrection 2 .. after 20th century

The first resurrection is not split into two sets with over 2000 years separating them.
-----------------------------------
YOU HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THIS verse BELOW
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND from HEAVEN with a shout,

 

[Linda8]

My reply
Compare Justme’s statement, claiming “there is only one resurrection at one time,” with the following verses. Look at the difference between the first resurrection and this second one after the 1000 years

Rev 20: 7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8.And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Rev 20:9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS about, and the beloved city: and FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD out of heaven, and DEVOURED THEM.

Are God’s people among them raised a 1000 years later at resurrection two? NO!
Does Jesus descend from heaven at the second resurrection 1000 years later? NO!
What does descend from heaven? FIRE and lots of it.
Anybody saved outside the city? NO!
That was the second death. The second out of two, the resurrection of damnation.
That is what the second resurrection is all about, punishment of the wicked by death.

Rev 20: 10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

It says the devil that DECEIVED THEM.
It does not say the devil only deceived (SOME) of them, they were all deceived and found unworthy.
The righteous will be waiting for them in the city when they gather around it.
That did NOT happen at the first resurrection of life.
Nobody will be saved at the resurrection of damnation.
It does not work that way in the Bible.
They are raised to suffer the second death by fire. Too late, No choice in it at all, that’s it! DEATH!!

Please cease your mixture of Revelation 20:5 and Revelation 20:9
It is wrong doctrine and cannot be justified whatsoever. Avoid moulding the word to suit your personal plan.

Revelation 20: 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:8.And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog

You must understand that Revelation 20:5 does not in any way whatsoever lend itself to your theory of those resurrecting at the end of 1000 years making up the NATIONS at the 4 quarters of the earth.

Revelation 20:8.And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Kindly stop confusing and mixing up the millions of the people in the nations Revelation 20:8 GOG AND MAGOG with the rest of the dead who resurrect after 1000 years Revelation 20:5.

The nations GOG and Magog in Revelation 20:9 who followed Satan were not empty GHOST nations... for you imply they were INSTANTLY populated by millions of dead people who had suddenly resurrected to life after 1000 years. That is fairly inaccurate doctrine. Please discuss and seek teachings on this error.

These errors typically occur when you try to rewrite scripture.
The Holy Bible does NOT SUPPORT this. Rev 20:8 the nations Gog and Magog ARE not those who resurrect after 1000 years.

 

[Justme]

Hi Atkin,

You asked:

1--when did the 1000 years start ??
2--and when did the first resurrection take place.?

Let's try this:
Daniel 12

11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

I would think the 'first' resurrection of Rev 20:4 and 6 which is in fact the 1000 year reign with Christ, is not 1000 years at all, but 45 days. That 45 days (our time) would also include the resurrection of the dead, or those who slept prior to the parousia.

The 1000 year reign(nonliteral) occurs in the spiritual realm, it is invisible to mortal man. Think of it. Heaven is where John SEEN them and it seems unlikely that headless people will wander around earth at any time in the future and I'm sure none have in the past.

Verse 11 also brings us back to the origonal topic of this thread, the abomination that causes desolation.

Verse 11 tells us there is 1290 days (3.53 years) between the abomination and the end of the daily sacrifice.

I would not consider any of these times prophesied for the duration of the great tribulation are accurate anyway because the days were shortened.

What ended sacrifice?

Justme

 

[good4u]

Raphe,

You are entitled to your opinions, but they are not bibilically based. So your wild speculations do not hold up to scrutiny to those who have studied this.

Abomination of Desolation - NOT Dome of Rock, Anti-Christ will enter a reconstructed temple built by JEWS where he will arrogantly declare himself God by demanding worship from the world. Apparently, this was not in your opinion. I suggest you need to restudy Scripture more closely.

False Prophet - A religious man LIVING at the time who assists the Anti-Christ in his rise to world domination. One small problem with your opinion is that Mohammed is DEAD.

Beast - either refers to the Anti-Christ or the one world goverment that dominates the end times depending upon the context in which it appears. So basically, it appears you have alot of homework to do when it comes to understanding end time events. Good luck and keep trying!!!

 

[cbk]

Raphe,

You are entitled to your opinions, but they are not bibilically based. So your wild speculations do not hold up to scrutiny to those who have studied this.

Abomination of Desolation - NOT Dome of Rock, Anti-Christ will enter a reconstructed temple built by JEWS where he will arrogantly declare himself God by demanding worship from the world. Apparently, this was not in your opinion. I suggest you need to restudy Scripture more closely.

False Prophet - A religious man LIVING at the time who assists the Anti-Christ in his rise to world domination. One small problem with your opinion is that Mohammed is DEAD.

Beast - either refers to the Anti-Christ or the one world goverment that dominates the end times depending upon the context in which it appears. So basically, it appears you have alot of homework to do when it comes to understanding end time events. Good luck and keep trying!!!

All do respect, can you prove to me why the 1st Beast cannot be the alliance of the U.S., Russia, U.N., and E.U. in the form of the quartet that has confirmed a covenant to bring peace to the middle east?

Number 2, the labor of which people built the dome of the Rock? Jew, Christian, or Muslim???

 

[Wills]

Raphe,

You are entitled to your opinions, but they are not bibilically based. So your wild speculations do not hold up to scrutiny to those who have studied this.

Abomination of Desolation - NOT Dome of Rock, Anti-Christ will enter a reconstructed temple built by JEWS where he will arrogantly declare himself God by demanding worship from the world. Apparently, this was not in your opinion. I suggest you need to restudy Scripture more closely.

Would it be that obvious, since sitting in a temple would be too easy to spot.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It does not state that the temple would be built by Jews, unless it is another verse you are quoting.

Are churches not places of God? Have we been praying in churches that were all the time NOT holy places of God?

What is the difference between a place of God as in a church, and the so called temple of God that the anti christ is supposed to sit in?
Cathedrals etc?

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Which resurrection took place AS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.?
You first claimed that ALL THE JUST ARE RAISED one time...

ProphecyCountdown writes- No that’s not what the Bible says.
The resurrection of life happens AT HIS SECOND COMING.


Why was only one group OF JUST RAISED over 1900 years ago IN MATTHEW 27:52?
Why was just that group raised FIRST and WHY will there be another RESURRECTION OF THE JUST?

If so, why does the Bible NOT SPEAK OF TWO RESURRECTIONS of the just. That is, the FIRST RESURRECTION OF THE JUST.... MATTHEW 27:52 Took place around 33AD, 1st century


Then after over 2000 years , after the 20th century, ANOTHER RESURRECTION of the just.. that is in our future.
You have some inconsistencies SINCE YOU NOW SPEAK OF TWO RESURRECTIONS OF THE JUST.

IF THE FIRST RESURRECTION Matthew 27:52, took place in 33AD, then the 1000 years followed soon after that.. as you imply.

THE FIRST RESURRECTION is not divided into 2 by 2000+ year gap.

Do NOT erroneously IMPLY that the Bible teaches TWO SETS OF FIRST RESURRECTIONS... you cannot misconstrue the Bible and present it as what the Bible says.

this below is Clearly false
FIRST RESURRECTION step ONE Matthew 27:52 33AD

THEN first resurrection 2 .. after 20th century

The first resurrection is not split into two sets with over 2000 years separating them.
-----------------------------------
YOU HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THIS verse BELOW
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND from HEAVEN with a shout,

Atkin, claims
Which resurrection took place AS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.?
You first claimed that ALL THE JUST ARE RAISED one time...

My reply.
I will repeat the Bible verses so that you can’t possibly miss it!
We were discussing the righteous dead and wicked dead at the time they would be raised.
The righteous dead are raised first one group at His resurrection and the rest of the Saints are raised first then the living are changed and caught up with Him at His second coming, long before the wicked are raised.
That is what I meant by the dead being raised first.
This is what I said.
“Show me in the Bible, where it says the condemned and saved come up together at exactly the same time, as you propose?”

“Some of those that are a part of the resurrection to life HAVE BEEN RAISED ALREADY, so whose assuming?”

“Matt 27:50. At once the curtain in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, and rocks split apart. 52 Graves opened, and MANY of God’s people were raised to life. 53 They left their graves, and after Jesus had risen to life, they went into the holy city, where they were seen by many people.”

“Were any of the UNJUST RAISED in Matt 27:50 ?
NO!”

“When are some of, “the dead in Christ” Saints raised first?”

“Answer. AT HIS SECOND COMING!”


“1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND FORM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:
17. Then WE which are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHERWITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

“Do the above verses say anything about the wicked being raised “at the same time as the dead or living?”
Answer. NO!”


I was discussing the fact that the wicked dead will not be raised at the same time as the Righteous dead. The righteous will be raised first as part of the resurrection of life.

Atkin’s question.
Why was only one group OF JUST RAISED over 1900 years ago IN MATTHEW 27:52?
Why was just that group raised FIRST and WHY will there be another RESURRECTION OF THE JUST?

My answer.
The answer to that is so easy, I can’t understand how on Earth you missed it!
Not all of the Earth’s population OF SAINTS had been borne 1900 years ago therefore how could ALL THE SAINTS BE RAISED back 1900 years ago?
It is the BIBLE that says they WILL BE raised at different times.

It was a sign of Jesus being the resurrection of life.

FIRST GROUP RAISED WAS AROUND 33AD.

Matt 27:50 And the graves were opened; and MANY BODIES of the SAINTS which slept AROSE, 53And came OUT OF THEIR GRAVES AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The above is what THE BIBLE SAYS!
Now for the next group of SAINTS to come up.

“1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND FORM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:
17. Then WE which are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHERWITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”


The above verse is the fulfilment of Daniel’s prophecies.

Daniel 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED EVERY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Atkin. Quote.
If so, why does the Bible NOT SPEAK OF TWO RESURRECTIONS of the just. That is, the FIRST RESURRECTION OF THE JUST.... MATTHEW 27:52 Took place around 33AD, 1st century

My reply.
The BIBLE does speak of TWO GROUPS as being part of the RESURRECTION OF LIFE, read Matt 27:50. 1 Thessalonians 4:16. The TIME factor of them being raised Atkin, is the one thing you seem to miss.
There is one resurrection of life and they that were raised in 33AD and those that will be raised who are written in the book of life are all part of that resurrection of life,
Again, it matters not whether they are raised earlier or later, after all they are Saints.


Atkin
Then after over 2000 years , after the 20th century, ANOTHER RESURRECTION of the just.. that is in our future.
You have some inconsistencies SINCE YOU NOW SPEAK OF TWO RESURRECTIONS OF THE JUST.

My reply.
No! There are NO inconsistencies, it just happens to be what the BIBLE says as we have seen in the preceding verses.

Daniel 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED EVERY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

“Everyone,” that means,,,, ALL,,, that are written in the book of life are raised at the SECOND ADVENT.

Now that DID NOT HAPPEN at the Lord’s resurrection. The Bible says “MANY SAINTS WERE RAISED” that does not mean “everyone” does it!
So there was not a fulfilment at the second resurrection of Daniel 12:1 or
1Thessalonians 4:16.
Are both groups of Saints a part of the resurrection of life? Yes


Atkin, quote.
IF THE FIRST RESURRECTION Matthew 27:52, took place in 33AD, then the 1000 years followed soon after that.. as you imply.

My reply.
NO! I DO NOT IMPLY anything of the sort and I NEVER HAVE! You are quick to jump in yet you have not even bothered to read my earlier posts. Which state clearly that the 1000 years is after the resurrection of all the Saints at His second advent and after Armageddon, yet to take place.

Atkin
THE FIRST RESURRECTION is not divided into 2 by 2000+ year gap.

My reply.
“Yes it is, because THE BIBLE SAYS SO even if you don’t seem to grasp that fact.
Again Bible proof. Time it happened 33AD.
Matt 27:50 And THE GRAVES WERE OPENED; and MANY BODIES of the SAINTS which slept AROSE, 53And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
That is ONE GROUP being part of the resurrection of life AT HIS RESURRECTION 1900 years ago.

Now for the NEXT GROUP who are TO BE RAISED at HIS SECOND COMING also being a part of the resurrection of life.

The time it will happen? At the second coming!
“1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND FORM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:
17. Then WE which are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHERWITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Now that confirms. Matthew 27:50. First part of the resurrection of life at HIS resurrection.
Daniel 12:1.said AND 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Agree with each other that the NEXT GROUP of the resurrection of life ARE TO BE RAISED at HIS second coming!

That is what the BIBLE says.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Atkin, quote.
Do NOT erroneously IMPLY that the Bible teaches TWO SETS OF FIRST RESURRECTIONS... you cannot misconstrue the Bible and present it as what the


My reply.
I have just proved that the Bible states clearly, that there is the resurrection of life and even though there are some Saints raised earlier and some Saints raised later, they are all a part of the resurrection of life.

Atkin quote.
Bible says.
this below is Clearly false
FIRST RESURRECTION step ONE Matthew 27:52 33AD
THEN first resurrection 2 .. after 20th century
The first resurrection is not split into two sets with over 2000 years separating them.
-----------------------------------
YOU HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THIS verse BELOW
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND from HEAVEN with a shout,

My reply.
No I have not!
1st raised being part of the resurrection of life 33AD. Matt 27:50 And THE GRAVES WERE OPENED; and MANY BODIES of the SAINTS which slept AROSE, 53And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
That is ONE GROUP being part of the resurrection of life AT HIS RESURRECTION 1900 years ago.

2nd group raised at second coming.
“1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND FORM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:
17. Then WE which are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHERWITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Confirmed by Daniel as to who they are. Daniel 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED EVERY ONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

That is what the Bible says.

Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown.

 

[Justme]

HI PC,

This group of saints raised at 33 AD...

Where are they now?

Justme

 

[Atkin]

Atkin, claims
Which resurrection took place AS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.?
You first claimed that ALL THE JUST ARE RAISED one time...

My reply.
I will repeat the Bible verses so that you can’t possibly miss it!
We were discussing the righteous dead and wicked dead at the time they would be raised.
The righteous dead are raised first one group at His resurrection and the rest of the Saints are raised first then the living are changed and caught up with Him at His second coming, long before the wicked are raised.
That is what I meant by the dead being raised first.
This is what I said.
“Show me in the Bible, where it says the condemned and saved come up together at exactly the same time, as you propose?”

“Some of those that are a part of the resurrection to life HAVE BEEN RAISED ALREADY, so whose assuming?”

“Matt 27:50. At once the curtain in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, and rocks split apart. 52 Graves opened, and MANY of God’s people were raised to life. 53 They left their graves, and after Jesus had risen to life, they went into the holy city, where they were seen by many people.”

“Were any of the UNJUST RAISED in Matt 27:50 ?
NO!”

“When are some of, “the dead in Christ” Saints raised first?”

“Answer. AT HIS SECOND COMING!”


“1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND FORM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:
17. Then WE which are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHERWITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

“Do the above verses say anything about the wicked being raised “at the same time as the dead or living?”
Answer. NO!”


.

1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND FORM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST:
17. Then WE which are ALIVE and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHERWITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

You falsely added events concerning sinners not mentioned in the point of 1 Thess 4:16

Does it state that unbelievers ARE NOT resurrected?..... You are wrong, it does not teach us there... refer to Daniel 12:2 for the SINNERS EVENTS AT 2ND ADVENT and there is no TIME GAP stated in 1 Thess 4;16 or Daniel 12;2 and do not force Revelation 20:5 wrongly into Daniel 12:2 and 1 Thess 4:16

THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT 1000 YEARS EXPLICITLY STATED IN 1 THESS 4:16-- you cannot show a thing there.

The key word is being with the Lord forever. That is the resurrected righteous and those alive will be with the Lord forever.

The resurected unrighteous and those alive not in Christ WILL NOT be with the Lord forever FOR THEY WILL BE IN SHAME AND CONTEMPT... DANIEL 12:2.. 2nd advent.

That is the correct interpretation which MATCHES DANIEL 12:2 exactly.

Daniel 12:2 MANY OF THOSE WHO SLEEP IN THE DUST SHALL AWAKE

1--- SOME TO EVERLASTING LIFE --those in Christ

2 and some to SHAME AND EVERLASTING CONTEMPT. Anything you add involving some time between Daniel the TWO resurrections in 12:2 is false teaching.

SHOW US IN DANIEL 12:2 where it states the 1000 year reign between

:2 many shall awake , some to everlasting life and YOU FALSELY INSERT 1000 YEARS before some resurrect to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelations 20:5 is fulfilled in Daniel 12:2..... so simple you cannot miss it.

1 Thess 4:16 DOES NOT MENTION that the dead unbelievers REMAIN DEAD FOR 1000 years and neither does it mention anything about the sinful alive BECAUSE THAT IS TAUGHT SEPARATELY IN DANIEL 12;2 AND REVELATION 20:5

1 THESS 4:16 should NOT BE MISCONSTRUED AND DISTORTED TO SAY THAT THE SINFUL ALIVE WILL REMAIN ON EARTH FOR 1000 YEARS..... what is the point of that?
Many people will be alive in sin after 1 THESS 4:16... and will ENJOY THE MILLENIAL REIGN?


If you place your false time gap between resurrecting to life and resurrecting to SHAME WHAT HAPPENS THEN TO THE SINFUL ALIVE .... who remain on earth in YOUR FICTIONAL TIME GAP BETWEEN 1 THESSALONIANS AND REVELATIONS 20:5??

Again, what happens to the millions of sinners BETWEEN THE FICTIONAL TIME GAP YOU HAVE PLACED BETWEEN 1 Thessalonians 4:16, REVELATION 20:5 Rest of the dead come alive and Daniel 12:2?

Daniel 12:2 IS THE COMPLETE DESCRIPTION OF THE EVENTS AT THE 2ND COMING
DANIEL 12:2 includes 1 Thess 4:16 and the simultaneous condemnation of the sinners
at the second coming to everlasting shame and contempt.
1 Thess 4:16 CANNOT BE USED to introduce a FICTIONAL DELAY between the words in Daniel 12:2 that take place at the same time.

 

[Atkin]

I would think the 'first' resurrection of Rev 20:4 and 6 which is in fact the 1000 year reign with Christ, is not 1000 years at all, but 45 days. That 45 days (our time) would also include the resurrection of the dead, or those who slept prior to the parousia.

The 1000 year reign(nonliteral) occurs in the spiritual realm, it is invisible to mortal man. Think of it. Heaven is where John SEEN them and it seems unlikely that headless people will wander around earth at any time in the future and I'm sure none have in the past.

Verse 11 also brings us back to the origonal topic of this thread, the abomination that causes desolation.

Verse 11 tells us there is 1290 days (3.53 years) between the abomination and the end of the daily sacrifice.

I would not consider any of these times prophesied for the duration of the great tribulation are accurate anyway because the days were shortened.

What ended sacrifice?

Justme

Christians do not sacrifice anything such as cows, so you need to understand what

context "sacrifice " means in verse 11.

[[ Heaven is where John SEEN them and it seems unlikely that headless people will wander around earth at any time in the future and I'm sure none have in the past. ]]

John was given knowledge of WHAT KILLED those saints. A resurrected saint

would NOT BE in a BEHEADED FORM after resurrection, hence why do you wrongly expect to see headless people AFTER RESURRECTION?

They were beheaded before death, hence they are referred to as those who were killed by being beheaded.

Do not expect God to resurrect people and bring them to life without THEIR LIFE

PROVING body parts, if the resurrection is PHYSICAL. A resurrected BEHEADED person

is not IN A BEHEADED STATE after GOD RESURRECTS the person.

As far as RESURRECTED SOULs , you as a human , cannot imagine what a resurrected soul looks like, hence it is pointless speculating on their appearance.

 

[Justme]

Hi Atkin,

You wrote:

Christians do not sacrifice anything such as cows, so you need to understand what

context "sacrifice " means in verse 11.
*****************

Yes, I know, so how long has there been christians?

When did these high class sacrifices stop?

When did the priests stop entering the holy place?

Why did the priests stop entering the holy place?

How come Jesus still had His wounds after His resurrection?

You wrote:

As far as RESURRECTED SOULs , you as a human , cannot imagine what a resurrected soul looks like, hence it is pointless speculating on their appearance.
**************
There you go,now we are getting somewhere.

So again when did sarifices stop?

Justme

 

[Atkin]

Hi Atkin,

You wrote:

Christians do not sacrifice anything such as cows, so you need to understand what

context "sacrifice " means in verse 11.
*****************

Yes, I know, so how long has there been christians?

When did these high class sacrifices stop?

When did the priests stop entering the holy place?

Why did the priests stop entering the holy place?

How come Jesus still had His wounds after His resurrection?

You wrote:

As far as RESURRECTED SOULs , you as a human , cannot imagine what a resurrected soul looks like, hence it is pointless speculating on their appearance.
**************
There you go,now we are getting somewhere.

So again when did sarifices stop?

Justme

If you are a Christian, then you know how long the Gospel has been preached

since Christ's ministry in the 1st century and that tells you how long Christians have been

in existence...

Regarding the questions" When did these high class sacrifices stop?"

and "When did the priests stop entering the holy place... once the Temple was destroyed

in the first century, the priests could no longer enter the holy place... IT WAS NO LONGER IN EXISTENCE. You cannot enter a place that does not EXIST.

QUESTION- Why did they stop the animal sacrifices...

That is clearly explained in Hebrews 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Again Hebrews 10:11 And every priest stands day after day at his service , offering again and again the same animal sacrifices that can never take away sins.
Christ offered for all time a single sacrifice for sin.

You now understand why the sacrifices are now useless.

Ques- Why did Jesus have wounds after His resurrection?

That is because humans tend to avoid using intelligence and doubt very easily. Humans would assume that after his resurrection, Jesus was not the same one who was crucified
hence the likes of Thomas who doubted were shown Jesus's wounds .
That was to enable humans understand and teach the resurrection.

Read John 20:25 Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger in the mark of the nails ..... I will not believe

John 20:26....... Jesus came and stood among them and said to Thomas "Put your finger here and see my hands

You understand now.

 

[Justme]

Hi Atkin,

You wrote:
"When did the priests stop entering the holy place... once the Temple was destroyed

in the first century, the priests could no longer enter the holy place... IT WAS NO LONGER IN EXISTENCE. You cannot enter a place that does not EXIST.
*************

Exactly. AND you point out that you cannot enter a place that does not exist, and of course the abomination that causes desolation can't either.

I like your explanation of the wounds of Jesus.

Justme