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Abomination of desolation

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Rafael, Jun 26, 2003.

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  1. Linda8

    Linda8 Member

    326
    +1
    Messianic
    AGAIN, a bunch of false interpretations.....the White throne judgement of the resurrected dead and SINNERS exposes the fallacies in your posts.

    Those not found in the Book of Life ARE THROWN INTO the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20:15... hence they are not destroyed at Gog and Magog's battle of Revelation 20:8-9.

    They are still alive to face judgement AFTER THE period of the Gog and Magog battle in Rev 20:7... THEY [THOSE NOT IN BOOK OF LIFE and others] ARE seen BEFORE THE Great WHITE THRONE IN Revelation 20:12-15.

    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [[[EVERY MAN.... YOU CLAIM THOSE sinners resurrected after 1000 years WERE DEVOURED WITH FIRE in Revelation 20:8 ]] A fallacy exposed.

    THE SINNERS and others FACE THE WHITE THRONE judgement LATER IN REV 20:12-15

    14 This is the second death.
    15 And WHOSOEVER was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    IF THEY RESURRECTED AFTER 1000 YEARS AND WERE DEVOURED with fire IN REVELATION 20:8, THEN HOW CAN THEY BE THROWN AGAIN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE IN REVELATION 20:14-15??

    THOSE NOT IN THE BOOK OF LIFE ARE THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE IN REVELATION 20:15.... they are not destroyed BEFORE REVELATION 20:11... they are not devoured by fire BEFORE facing THE WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT IN REVELATION 20:12-

    Avoid repeating and retyping out baseless, empty posts.
     
  2. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi PC,

    You wrote:
    Now don’t tell me that the dead not yet raised are a part of the first resurrection of life.
    ***************

    Boy, I think we made it.
    WE HAVEN'T BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU THAT.

    The rest of the dead are AFTER the 1000 year reign, yse, yes, yes!!!What a breakthrough!!!!!!!

    Now work on 1 Thess 4:15.

    Justme
     
  3. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

    683
    +3
    Christian
    Private
    UK-Conservative



    Linda8,,
    AGAIN, a bunch of false interpretations.....the White throne judgement of the resurrected dead and SINNERS exposes the fallacies in your posts.

    My reply.

    We will see who is "retyping baseless, empty posts." I will check you out with the Bible.

    Linda8’s quote.
    Those not found in the Book of Life ARE THROWN INTO the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20:15... hence THEY ARE NOT DESTROYED at Gog and Magog's battle of Revelation 20:8-9.

    My reply.
    That is NOT what the BIBLE says.
    Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, and DEVOURED THEM.

    The Bible says the they were "devoured" and Linda8 says they were not folks!

    Who do you want to believe, Linda8’s or the Bible?

    I will have to ask the BIBLE for the right answers, because I’m not getting any from Linda8, So out with Linda8 and in with the Bible.

    Question? Are these the resurrected?

    Bible answer. Rev 19:8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the FINE LINEN is the righteousness of SAINTS. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, BLESSED are THEY which are CALLED unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, THESE ARE THE TRUE SAYINGS OF GOD.

    Question? Are the resurrected going to follow Jesus back to Earth AS PART OF His army from heaven?

    Bible answer. Rev 19:14. And the ARMIES which were in HEAVEN FOLLOWED HIM upon white horses, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, white and clean.

    Question? Where are the righteous armies, in fine white linen going to?

    Bible answer. Rev 19: 19. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the EARTH, and their ARMIES, GATHERED TOGETHER to make WAR against him that sat on the horse, and against HIS ARMY.

    Question? Are both the beast and false prophet thrown into the lake of fire?

    Bible answer 20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


    Question? What happens to the rest of Earth’s armies gathered to make war against Jesus the “King of kings?"

    Bible answer. Rev 19:21. And the remnant were SLAIN WITH THE SWORD of HIM that sat upon the horse, which proceeded out of his mouth: and all the FOWLES WERE FILLED WITH THEIR FLESH.

    Question? Where are the armies of the wicked to be gathered, then slain?

    BIBLE answer. Rev 16:16. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

    Question? The wicked that are dead prior to those that are killed at Armageddon, are they raised or do they remain dead?

    BIBLE quote “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”

    Question? So at Armageddon, they were not burned but put to the sword?

    Bible answer. “The remnant were slain WITH THE SWORD of him that sat upon the horse, which proceeded out of his mouth and all the FOWLS WERE FILLED with their FLESH.”

    Question one ? What happens to Satan after his earthly army is destroyed?

    Question two ? Is it true that the dead are to stay dead for a thousand years then are to be deceived after their resurrection after the thousand years?

    Bible answer. “I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand, HE LAID HOLD OF THE DRAGON that old serpent which is THE DEVIL, Satan and BOUND HIM A THOUSAND YEARS cast him into the BOTTOMLESS PIT, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the NATIONS NO MORE, TIL THE THOUSAND YEARS SHOULD BE FULFILLED.”
    “After that he must be loosed a little season.”

    Question? Those that are raised and went through the tribulation and did not worship the beast, are they given authority to judge those that remain dead?


    Bible answer. “I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGEMENT WAS GIVEN unto THEM.”

    Question? As they are part of the resurrection of life does that mean that they are able to live easily for a thousand years and more?

    Bible answer “The souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, they lived and REIGNED WITH CHRIST a THOUSAND YEARS.”

    Question? So the righteous live and reign a thousand years, with Christ but what of the dead that were dead before Armageddon and those killed at Armageddon with the sword and those that were not found in the book of life?

    BIBLE. answer. “But the REST OF THE DEAD lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”

    Question? What is the benefit of being a part of the first resurrection?

    Bible answer. “This the first resurrection. Blessed and holy he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the SECOND DEATH hath NO POWER, they shall be PRIESTS of God and of Christ, and shall REIGN with him a thousand years.”

    Question? What happens when the wicked dead are raised after the thousand years and Satan is released ?

    Bible answer. “When the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prisons, Shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle.”

    Question? How many were raised?

    Bible answer. “The number of whom as the sand of the sea.”

    Question? Was the camp and the beloved city surrounded by the wicked.

    Bible answer. “They went up on the breadth of the earth, compassed the camp of the SAINTS about, and the beloved city.”

    Question? Did they suffer the second death with fire from God that could not have any affect at all, on the Saints?

    Bible answer. Rev 20: 9.“Fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    The devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

    But Linda8 says they are still alive?

    Linda8,, quote
    They are still alive to face judgement AFTER THE period of the Gog and Magog battle in Rev 20:7... THEY [THOSE NOT IN BOOK OF LIFE and others] ARE seen BEFORE THE Great WHITE THRONE IN Revelation 20:12-15.

    Bible answer again. Rev 20: 9. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN AND DEVOURED THEM.

    Question? What happens to Satan is he devoured as well at the second death?

    Bible answer 10. “The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”

    Question? What happens to the old Earth?

    Bible answer. 11.” Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.”

    Question? How were the unrighteous judged before they were devoured by fire?
    Bible answer. 12. “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.”

    Question? From where did all the dead come from that were destroyed by fire after being judged by their works?

    Bible answer 13. “The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.”

    Question? What about death and Hades and was the second death by fire?

    Bible answer. 14. “Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

    Question? So were all those that died by fire after the thousand years, not found in the book of life

    Bible answer. 15. “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.”

    Bible quote. Rev 21: 1. Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

    I will simply ask the Bible for the answers to be on the side of truth.

    Maranatha.

    Prophecy Countdown.
     
  4. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

    683
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    Christian
    Private
    UK-Conservative


    I am glad you agree to the following, however I have been saying this from the beginning so why do you now agree? :scratch:

    The rest of the dead are those that are to be raised after the thousand years at the resurrection of damnation.
    I will re-quote what I said in full so that I can be sure that you really do agree with what I said or whether you are just trying to misapply my quotation deliberately, Just to try and score for yourself meaningless ego points. ;)

    “The Authorised King James version which was originally produced by a group of 54 scholars under the direction of King James of England in 1611AD.
    The original writings did not have verses or chapters.”

    “Rev 20:5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This the first resurrection.”

    “Now don’t tell me that the dead not yet raised are a part of the first resurrection of life. Quote, “ This the first resurrection.6” and applies to the previous sentence in verse 5 just because the number 6 is placed after the word “resurrection,” in 1611 in the King James version. They are Book referencing points only and have no influence or value over the INTENT of scripture.
    How does the Bible read without verse numbers”

    “Armageddon Has now been completed and ALL THE WICKED REMAIN DEAD as previously explained.”

    BIBLE
    “The remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which proceeded out of his mouth and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
    I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand, he laid hold on the dragon that old serpent which is the Devil, Satan and bound him a thousand years cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled.”
    “After that he must be loosed a little season.
    I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them.
    The souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years”

    “But the REST OF THE DEAD lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”

    “This the first resurrection. Blessed and holy he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power, they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

    “When the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prisons, Shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle.”

    “The number of whom as the sand of the sea.
    They went up on the breadth of the earth, compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city.
    Fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    The devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

    Maranatha.

    Prophecy Countdown.
     
  5. Linda8

    Linda8 Member

    326
    +1
    Messianic




    The wicked did not Resurrect TWICE after 1000 years. YOU FALSELY claim they RESURRECTED AFTER THE 1000 YEARS FIRST to follow Satan and to be devoured by Fire
    and then get resurrected again to FACE THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT... absurd.

    That is false because they would have TO BE RESURRECTED AGAIN, that is another
    resurrection after the one described as taking place after the 1000 years are ended
    IF all those resurrected after the 1000 years WERE DEVOURED BY FIRE in Revelation 20:9...

    Your deluded teaching states

    1-- RESURRECTION AFTER 1000 YEARS Revelation 20:5 of the wicked

    2-- After the above resurrection in Rev 20:5, they then follow Satan and are devoured by FIRE in Revelation 20:9

    3- Those ALREADY RESURRECTED and killed by fire in Revelation 20:9 are THEN RESURRECTED AGAIN IN REVELATION 20:12-13 BEFORE GREAT WHITE THRONE (2 resurrections after the 1000 years??)

    AGAIN being resurrected and devoured by fire in GOG AND MAGOG (Revelation 20:7-8)

    YOU ABSURDLY CLAIM THEY ARE RESURRECTED AGAIN in order to face GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT Revelation 20:12-15

    EVEN a novice would not make such an error

    fallacy.. the wicked Resurrect to be devoured by Fire at Gog Magog battle Rev 20:8...

    and the wicked again resurrect (twice) in Revelation 20:12-14

    to face Great WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT ... TWO RESURRECTIONS AFTER THE 1000 YEARS. ??

    It is appointed for man to die once, then judgement.... not two resurrections AFTER THE 1000 years.

    Your false doctrines are pretty watery. Avoid wasting posts such as these.
     
  6. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi PC,

    Now that we know that the REST of the DEAD did not come to life until after the 1000 years, we must move on to the next step.

    1 Thess 4:15

    The people who are alive and remain at the parousia will be raised after the REST of the DEAD.

    Just for the sake of expediency let's not worry if it is the wicked or the just or both or the farmer's dog, let's just take note that the REST of the DEAD are AFTER the 1000 year reign and BEFORE those who are alive at the parousia.

    Like the verse says this as clear as spring mountain morning. Do you understand or not?

    Justme
     
  7. Linda8

    Linda8 Member

    326
    +1
    Messianic
    That poster PC is not debating the fixed fact that there is a RESURRECTION after 1000 years.

    The debate is about who they are, and it is falsely implied that they are the unjust and they all get devoured by fire in Revelation 20:9 AND RESURRECT AGAIN to face the Great white throne judgement in an absurd manner of TWO RESURRECTIONS AFTER the 1000 years.

    The poster who made that assumption did not deny that the rest of the dead are raised after 1000 years.

    1 Thess 4:15

    The people who are alive and remain at the parousia will be raised after the REST of the DEAD.
    ____-
    You need to clarify a point in your rendition of 1 Thess 4:15
    Those alive are believers and they are ARE NOT RAISED from the dead SINCE THEY ARE alredy alive .... WE WHO ARE ALIVE....
    The scriptures says thOSE ALIVE are also caught up in the clouds, which is described as mean raised in clouds (1 Thess 4:17) BUT NOT RAISED FROM THE DEAD... since they are ALREADY ALIVE.

    Revelation 20:12-13 IS THE SECOND RESURRECTION... and the Bible is clear that it happens JUST BEFORE JUDGEMENT of Revelation 20:13 and the unjust thrown into the lake of fire in Revelation 20:15.
     
  8. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Linda8,

    Yes, PC would like the group of the rest of the dead to only be the wicked. My theory is to pin down the time and then it can be shown that some have been missed in his scenario.

    Concerning 1 Thess 4

    15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

    Those asleep will be resurrected, those alive at the parousia will not precede, be resurrected before, those who have fallen asleep.


    16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

    Again the dead in Christ, those who have fallen asleep, will rise before those alive at the parousia,will rise.

    17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

    Here we have a verse that is used to prove the rapture idea. I guess this would be used by the post-trib group..??

    In and of itself it could say rapture if this is all you look at in the bible, but a close look at other verses soon rules out the rapture theory because as you say, this is involving those who are ALIVE at the parousia and judgement comes after death.

    So yes PC insists on this wicked only resurrection, I suppose because there is the 'first' resurrection which involved only the just. I think we have provided everbody BUT PC, with ample reason to scrap that idea, so I tried a different angle.

    Justme
     
  9. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

    683
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    UK-Conservative

    Hi Justme.

    Quote.
    Justme.
    Hi PC,
    Now that we know that the REST of the DEAD did not come to life until after the 1000 years, we must move on to the next step.

    1 Thess 4:15

    My reply.
    How can we move ON to the next step when 1 Thessalonians 4: 15 is concerned with the resurrection of the righteous dead and living as Jesus descends at His first advent where only the righteous are promised that they are to live with the Christ forever being of the resurrection of life which is before the 1000 years?
    1 Thessalonians 4: 15. does not occur after the thousand years.

    1 Thessalonians 4: 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD in Christ shall rise FIRST: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, TO MEET THE LORD in the air: and so SHALL WE ever BE WITH THE LORD 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    That is the resurrection of life for the righteous.


    Justme.
    The people who are alive and remain at the parousia will be raised after the REST of the DEAD.


    My reply.
    The dead are raised first and those that are alive in Christ are “caught up together WITH THEM.”
    Not years later or hours later but “caught up with them” and their bodies are changed within the blinking of an eye.


    Justme.
    Just for the sake of expediency let's not worry if it is the wicked or the just or both or the farmer's dog, let's just take note that the REST of the DEAD are AFTER the 1000 year reign and BEFORE those who are alive at the parousia.

    My reply.
    The unrighteous are not a part of the first resurrection of life, because their bodies would be changed to immortal and the second death would have no power over them. So forget the wicked in this scenario.

    Even the wicked living are not raised at the resurrection of life at the second coming, so why would the wicked, and be given immortal bodies?
    Matt 24: 39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the OTHER LEFT. 41Two grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the OTHER LEFT. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    Not only are the wicked living left but so are the wicked dead.
    Rev 20: 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

    Rev 20: This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    The wicked are raised to face death after the millennium. Rev 20: 9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    After they were devoured in verse 9. The judgement record of what happened to them is recorded in Rev 20 11, 12, 13, 14.
    The result was this.
    Rev 20:15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


    Justme.
    Like the verse says this as clear as spring mountain morning. Do you understand or not?

    Justme

    My reply.
    Yes it is very clear to me, thank you for asking. :wave:

    Maranatha.
     
  10. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

    683
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    Christian
    Private
    UK-Conservative

    Linda8.
    The wicked did not Resurrect TWICE after 1000 years. YOU FALSELY claim they RESURRECTED AFTER THE 1000 YEARS FIRST to follow Satan and to be devoured by Fire
    and then get resurrected again to FACE THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT... absurd.

    My reply.
    I never said that they, the wicked would be resurrected twice, only you assume that with your own following arguments.

    Linda8.
    That is false because they would have TO BE RESURRECTED AGAIN, that is another resurrection after the one described as taking place after the 1000 years are ended
    IF all those resurrected after the 1000 years WERE DEVOURED BY FIRE in Revelation 20:9...

    My reply.
    IT IS THE BIBLE that says they were “devoured by fire.”
    Rev 20: 9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the SAINTS about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED them.

    Linda8.
    Your deluded teaching states
    1-- RESURRECTION AFTER 1000 YEARS Revelation 20:5 of the wicked

    My reply.
    Bible. Rev 20: 5. “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.”

    Linda8.
    2-- After the above resurrection in Rev 20:5, they then follow Satan and are devoured by FIRE in Revelation 20:9

    My reply, Yes after the wicked have been raised they are deceived by Satan and are killed.
    Rev 20:7. And when the THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and FIRE came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED THEM.

    Linda8.
    3- Those ALREADY RESURRECTED and killed by fire in Revelation 20:9 are THEN RESURRECTED AGAIN IN REVELATION 20:12-13 BEFORE GREAT WHITE THRONE (2 resurrections after the 1000 years??)

    My reply.
    No! I Have never ever suggested that they are “resurrected again in Rev 20: 12 - 13.”

    The problem Linda8, is the way you are reading the Bible.

    You have to reject the CLEAR FACT that it is THE BIBLE that says they are devoured by fire in Rev 20: 9. Because, you argue, “there’s a Resurrection and judgement again in Rev 20: 1, 12, 13, 14,15.”

    I must ask, is the Bible confused and is it talking about “two resurrections?”

    The answer is a definite, NO! The Bible speaks of ONLY ONE resurrection of the wicked and does NOT speak of two resurrections.

    That is the way I read the Bible. ONE RESURRECTION of damnation!

    The BIBLE says that they are “DEVOURED” by fire from God in verse 9. We all have to acknowledge that very Clear fact!

    Rev20: 9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and FIRE came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED THEM.

    So the question is how do we read the following to be in harmony with verse 9 that has them already dead?
    Without seeming to make the BIBLE contradict itself?

    We can’t refute Rev 20: 9. It is there in black and white, and it has to be accepted and dealt with.

    Your reasoning is. How can they be destroyed in Rev 20: 9. and yet be raised at Rev 20: 11 – 15?
    It seems you have a dilemma with this.

    Linda8
    AGAIN being resurrected and devoured by fire in GOG AND MAGOG (Revelation 20:7-8)
    YOU ABSURDLY CLAIM THEY ARE RESURRECTED AGAIN in order to face GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT Revelation 20:12-15

    My reply.
    I DO NOT "ABSURDLY CLAIM THEY ARE RESURRECTED AGAIN in order to face GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT Revelation 20:12-15."

    It is no good attacking me because I read Rev 20: 9 as fact and also read Rev 20 11 – 15 as factual and in agreement with Rev 20: 9.
    I do not see these verses as being in contradiction with each other.

    So how can I read what the Bible says and have no disharmony?

    If there is a disunity of harmony then we must ask ourselves is it with Scripture or is it the way we are reading scripture?

    We have all read that THE BIBLE STATES that Satan and his followers have BEEN destroyed by fire in verses9 and 10.
    So, how can we read the following so that the Bible does not contradict itself?

    John sees HIS throne with HIM on it. It clearly states “from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away.” The Earth is now GONE, because in the next verse we read these words. “There was found no place for them.” We MUST understand that there is nothing left of the Earth or it’s surrounds.
    Yet earlier we read that they were gathered at Gog and Magog.
    So what we have is nothing of Earth and the next verses are a record of the events that have TAKEN place BEFORE the world was gone!

    Bible.20 11.” Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.”

    Knowing that the Earth and it’s surrounding heavens are no longer here and neither are the unrighteous, because they HAVE BEEN burned to nothing in verse 9.
    I have to ask the next question IN THE PAST TENSE, and read the next verses as being a record of what happened before and how they were judged before their destruction by fire.
    THERE CONNOT BE TWO RESURRECTIONS FOR THE WICKED after reading their fate in verse 9.

    Question? How WERE the unrighteous JUDGED BEFORE they were devoured by fire?

    Bible answer. 12. “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.”

    The book of life was there open, to see the fact that the wicked were NOT written in that book.

    Question? From where did all the dead come from that were destroyed by fire in verse 9?
    Knowing the Earth is gone this next verse is an enlargement of what TOOK place.

    Bible answer 13. “The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.”

    So I NOW am told and can see how the fairness of God’s judgements is to be carried out and how the process will be laid out for us all to see and to be able to appreciate His absolute honesty in judging everyone.

    My next question is to ask about Hades and the second death and where it went?

    Bible answer. 14. “Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

    I also wanted to know why the wicked were destroyed by fire in verse 9 along with Satan in verse 10, so I asked the next question.

    Question? So were all those that died by fire after the thousand years, in verse nine not found in the book of life? I received the answer that anyone NOT in the book of life “was cast into the lake of fire.”

    Bible answer. 15. “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.”

    I read the Bible that way so I can include Rev 20: 9 with the following verses 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. Without any problems at all with the Bible seeming to clash with itself or having to ignore the clear destruction of the wicked in verse 9 to make it all fit.

    There are NO “two resurrections,” of the wicked and I have never ever implied that at all, because the Bible says there is only one resurrection for the wicked after the thousand years.

    Linda8
    EVEN a novice would not make such an error fallacy.. the wicked Resurrect to be devoured by Fire at Gog Magog battle Rev 20:8...
    and the wicked again resurrect (twice) in Revelation 20:12-14
    to face Great WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT ... TWO RESURRECTIONS AFTER THE 1000 YEARS. ??

    My reply.
    I have never ever said that the "wicked were to be resurrected again twice to face the Great WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT in Rev 20 12 - 14."

    I have to agree with you, that there are certainly NOT TWO resurrections after the thousand years.
    That is why I have NEVER EVER SAID THERE WAS.


    Linda8.
    It is appointed for man to die once, then judgement.... not two resurrections AFTER THE 1000 years.

    My reply.
    Yes it does say that man is appointed to die once but there are exceptions. ask Lazarus when you see him at the resurrection of life and I agree with you there is NOT TWO RESURRECTIONS after the thousand years.



    Linda8
    Your false doctrines are pretty watery. Avoid wasting posts such as these.

    My reply.
    Just because you do not understand how I see the Bible, that does not constitute a false or a wasting of this post’s time.

    Maranatha.

    Prophecy Countdown.
     
  11. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi PC,

    Where's Daniel?

    Justme
     
  12. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Hi Justme.
    Why do you ask about Daniel?
     
  13. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi PC,

    He was to 'sleep'. He was to rise for inheritance. He was to rise at the time of the great tribulation. The great tribulation is immedieately before the parousia.
    The reign with Christ is over at the parousia so Daniel Daniel can't be in that.

    Where's Daniel?

    Justme
     
  14. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Hi J.

    "parousia?"
     
  15. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi PC,

    I think so. Daniel would be in the group who would rise prior to those alive at the parousia. -Those who slept.

    Justme
     
  16. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Hi J.

    "parousia?"
     
  17. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi PC,

    Is your keyboard stuck?

    Justme
     
  18. Atkin

    Atkin Member

    428
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    Christian
    Until the resurrection of the dead during the tribulation stated in Daniel 12:1-3, Daniel

    would not be resurrected and alive. When you say where is Daniel, you know He is still not resurrected so why do you expect him to be seen?

    The resurrection has not taken place so why do you ask about Daniel's whereabouts?

    What about Elisha, King David, Abraham etc?? The resurrection in Daniel 12:2 has not

    taken place so Daniel etc ARE not resurrected.
     
  19. Prophecy Countdown

    Prophecy Countdown Senior Member

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    Hi J.

    "parousia?"

    “Where is Daniel?”

    For the Bible answer. See Daniel 12:13.

    We were discussing the abomination of desolation, the second advent, Matthew 24. Mark 13, Luke 21. Rev 19: 20; 1 Thessalonians 4: 15, 16, the judgement and Linda8 was discussing “two resurrections” that she mistakenly thought would occur if we read Rev 20: 9, literally, and as a consequence, because she believed, incorrectly that there would a second resurrection later in Rev 20: 11,12,13, 14,15, and thought that that would make “two resurrections” which has been proven incorrect with the Bible.
    She then wrongly applied the argument of the “two resurrections” mistakenly to me and argued against it! The idea of which, I have never ever assumed or supported!

    Justme. You said.
    “He was to 'sleep'. He was to rise for inheritance. He was to rise at the time of the great tribulation. The great tribulation is immedieately before the parousia.
    The reign with Christ is over at the parousia so Daniel Daniel can't be in that.”

    My reply.
    The word “parousia,” where is it in the Bible?

    Let’s stick with the Bible only please, and call the “millennium” the “millennium,” or the “1000 years.”
    Unless you can substantiate the word “parousia” from Bible texts, word for word, I will have to dismiss it as pure folly.

    You ask “Where is Daniel?”
    Read on and the Bible will let you know.

    1. How can we fix the “time of trouble?”
    Very easily, quote. “AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED,”

    What occurs at “the time of trouble?” The Bibles says God’s people are delivered. Bible quote “EVERYONE that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.”

    3. Are any of the wicked found in the book of life?
    Bible answer says only those “thy people,” “found written in the book.”

    Daniel 12:1. And AT THAT TIME shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of THY PEOPLE: and THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERYONE one that shall be FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.


    2. Is there a relationship with the “tribulation” and the “time of trouble?”
    Yes, only God’s people are delivered “at that time.”

    Revelation 7: 14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY which CAME OUT OF THR GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    3. To whom are the robes given and where are they?
    They are the Saints in Heaven receiving the blessing at the wedding, having BEEN RESCUED.

    Rev 19:8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for THE FINE LINEN is the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SAINTS. 9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.

    What are they getting ready for? Armageddon.
    They are going to deal with the unrighteous, living back on Earth, who were not “caught up with the righteous dead, AT His second coming.
    Remember only those “in Christ” were risen. At HIS second coming written in the book of life.
    1 Thessalonians 4: 16. For the LORD HIMSELF shall DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD ON CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE and remain shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, TO MEET the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    So all the righteous dead are raised along with the living righteous caught up TOGETHER.

    Here’s what happens to the wicked that were left behind on Earth, and who were not part of the first resurrection of life during the tribulation.


    Rev 19: 14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

    Rev 19: 17. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

    Rev 19: 20.And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And THE REMNANT were SLAIN WITHT THE SWORD of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

    Have I forgotten anybody? No. The righteous are raised and ALL the wicked are dead, and they will remain dead for a thousand years!


    Rev 20: 1, 2, 3, 4 Satan is bound a 1000 years.
    When will Satan and the wicked dead rise?

    Rev 20” 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

    The righteous are a part of the resurrection of life.
    Rev 20: This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    The unrighteous people are a part of the resurrection of damnation.
    After the 1000 years all the wicked dead are raised to be burned to death.
    Rev 20: 7.And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    You ask where is Daniel?
    I think the answer to that question will become obvious at the second advent when Daniel is raised as a part of the righteous dead and “we who are alive will be caught up with them together.”
    Rev 20:7. And when the THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and FIRE came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED THEM.


    ONE RESURRECTION of damnation!

    The BIBLE says that they are “DEVOURED” by fire from God in verse 9. We all have to acknowledge that very Clear fact!

    Rev20: 9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and FIRE came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED THEM.

    So the question is how do we read the following to be in harmony with verse 9 that has them already dead?
    Without seeming to make the BIBLE contradict itself?

    We can’t refute Rev 20: 9. It is there in black and white, and it has to be accepted and dealt with.

    John sees HIS throne with HIM on it. It clearly states “from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away.” The Earth IS NOW GONE, because in the next verse we read these words. “There was found no place for them.” We MUST understand that there is nothing left of the Earth or it’s surrounds.
    Earlier in Rev 20: 9.we read that they were gathered at Gog and Magog.
    Where they were destroyed by fire.

    So what we have, is nothing of Earth left or remains it is Gone and the next verses must be a record of the events that have TAKEN place BEFORE the World was gone!

    Bible.20 11.” Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.”

    Knowing that the Earth and it’s surrounding heavens are no longer here and neither are the unrighteous, because they HAVE BEEN burned to nothing in verse 9.
    I have to ask the next question IN THE PAST TENSE, and read the next verses as being a record of what happened before and how they were judged before their destruction by fire.
    THERE CONNOT BE TWO RESURRECTIONS FOR THE WICKED after reading their fate in verse 9.

    Question? How WERE the unrighteous JUDGED BEFORE they were devoured by fire?

    Bible answer. 12. “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.”

    The book of life was there open, to see the fact that the wicked were NOT written in that book.

    Question? From where did all the dead come from that were destroyed by fire in verse 9?
    Knowing the Earth is now gone, this next verse must be an enlargement of what TOOK place.

    Bible answer 13. “The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.”

    So NOW I am told and can see how the fairness of God’s judgements is to be carried out and how the process will be laid out for us all to see and to be able to appreciate His absolute honesty in judging everyone.

    My next question is to ask about Hades and the second death and where it went?

    Bible answer. 14. “Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

    I also wanted to know why the wicked were destroyed by fire in verse 9 along with Satan in verse 10, so I asked the next question.

    Question? So were all those that died by fire after the thousand years, in verse nine not found in the book of life? I received the answer that anyone NOT in the book of life “was cast into the lake of fire.”

    Bible answer. 15. “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.”

    I read the Bible that way so I can include Rev 20: 9 with the following verses 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. Without any problems at all with the Bible seeming to clash with itself or having to ignore the clear destruction of the wicked in verse 9 to make it all fit.

    There are NO “two resurrections,” of the wicked and I have never ever implied that at all, because the Bible says there is only one resurrection for the wicked after the thousand years.

    I have never ever said that the "wicked were to be resurrected again, twice to face the Great WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT in Rev 20 12 – 14," because it isn’t stated in the Bible.


    But we have been over this before. Justme.

    Maranatha,
    Prophecy Countdown.
     
  20. Atkin

    Atkin Member

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    Christian
    Revelation 20:7 MAKES NO MENTION of a resurrection. There must be some scales
    clouding your interpretation of that simple verse.

    Of course , you could deceive yourself and insert the resurrected dead following Satan in Revelation 20:8-9.

    Not supported by scriptures and you have been advised repeatedly on this fallacy.

    Cannot cut it.

    Explain how Satan deceives millions in Revelation 20:7-8 in the PHYSICAL PRESENCE OF Christ is ruling with A ROD OF IRON for the previous 1000 years.
    You cannot.

    This accuses of Christ of being a weak leader , if Satan can still operate effectively in the very visible presence of Christ, 1000 years after his second advent in Revelation 20:8.
    Have you been deceived?
     
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