A question about Job.

[brinny]

I assume you are talking about: “This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.”

“Blameless” does not refer to God not finding any fault, but refers to man or even the person’s family not finding any fault.

Job certainly did fear God and shunned evil, but that does not mean Job was perfect like Christ is perfect.

Again Job made some comments at the end prior to God speaking up that showed an inter weakness.

God repeated His description of Job several times. The first time is here:

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." ~Job 1:1

What was Satan's and God's conversation regarding Job?

 

[bling]

God repeated His description of Job several times. The first time is here:

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." ~Job 1:1

What was Satan's and God's conversation regarding Job?

The KJV might not be the best translation here, since "perfect" can mean complete, mature and have other meanings other than "perfect" like Christ is perfect. We also know Job was not perfect from his comments to his third "friend".
God was goading satan into doing bad stuff to Job to get Job to admit he thought he was smarter than God and someone Job could argue with.

 

[brinny]

The KJV might not be the best translation here, since "perfect" can mean complete, mature and have other meanings other than "perfect" like Christ is perfect. We also know Job was not perfect from his comments to his third "friend".
God was goading satan into doing bad stuff to Job to get Job to admit he thought he was smarter than God and someone Job could argue with.

Where is it written in God's Word that God was "goading" Job?

Pertaining to the verse i posted above, this verse is right in sync with it:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

Correction:

i mistakenly typed in "Job" in my first sentence/question here.

I meant to post "Satan".

 

[bling]

Where is it written in God's Word that God was "goading" Job?

Pertaining to the verse i posted above, this verse is right in sync with it:

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." ~Proverbs 9:10

I did not say: “God was goading Job”, but God was manipulating satan, to get satan to do what God would not do directly to the innocent.

Look at this at least, because this is what I have written earlier to others:


Job, He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.


1. This is the oldest story thought to be recorded, it could be before the time of the flood.

2. First!! Remember our objective: All humans are to develop and grow in Godly type love (agape) of God and other humans.

3. God’s objective is the most selfless, in that He has and will do everything to help willing human individually develop and grow Godly type love (help us fulfill our objective).

4. In the story of Job, we can see God is in charge, satan can only do what God allows Satan to do.

5. God has power over Satan and could destroy Satan at any time, so Satan has an purpose that forces God to allow Satan to stick around.

6. From the story we see Satan doing the bad stuff to good people and God allowing Satan to do this bad stuff.

7. Bad stuff is never bad for the individual that loves God: Rm8: 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him. What good can Job get out of this discipline, trial, learning experience?

8. Job would have been praying for himself like he prayed for his kids: Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom. Job’s pray would easily been to ask to love more and grow spiritually.

9. We can not stop, we have to be growing or we will start withering spiritually. Where Job is in his spiritual growth at the beginning seem to be far down the path so further growing could be a challenge and require a new level.

10. Job is fantastic at the beginning of the story, but he is not perfect, he can still do a lot of growing.

11. I think we can agree that Job is personally a better person (spiritually stronger) at the end of the story then at the beginning, so what was Job’s weakness in the beginning that God would know and realize? If we could figure this out we could figure what was needed to help Job. Would a burning bush experience help Job?

12. This is another situation in which God works with an individual personally. God is working with each of us very similarly.

13. We do not know how God worked individually with each of Job’s kids, but He was and they joined God in heaven and would be there when Job got there.

14. It has been my experience people (including myself) really hate to humble ourselves. It is like being baptized, people use every excuse for not being baptized that comes down to being a sign of humility they will not do.



At the end we see a changed Job:


1 Then Job replied to the LORD :

2 "I know that you can do all things;

no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'

Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,

things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you

but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself

and repent in dust and ashes."

The fact Job talks of “repenting”, means he realized he sinned, so what was Job’s sin?

Here seems to be the problem: Job 31: 35 (“Oh, that I had someone to hear me! I sign now my defense—let the Almighty answer me; let my accuser put his indictment in writing. 36 Surely I would wear it on my shoulder, I would put it on like a crown. 37 I would give him an account of my every step; I would present it to him as to a ruler.)—

From this and previous verses Job has lower God to his level like he could argue his case before God and win. Job would not have admitted that deep in his heart early on he saw God as being like some superior human being and not above making any mistakes, so it would take a huge upheaval in Job’s life to get him to realize this weakness in himself.



Job was humbled in the end, but why go through all this would there not be an easier way? If God had spoken directly to Job prior to all this would Job not have listened? I would say, “NO”. Job would have said, I know Lord (when he really didn’t) Job would not have said what he did say in the end and that is what he needed to say. How do you get Job to say what he did without going through what he experienced. If you had asked Job in the beginning, “do you know the Lord”, he would have said, “yes” for he knew the Lord better than anyone else at the time. God does not want you to just be the best, but the best you can be and that is what Job wanted.

Just some thoughts, I really love Job and thank God for this story.

 

[brinny]

I did not say: “God was goading Job”, but God was manipulating satan, to get satan to do what God would not do directly to the innocent.

Look at this at least, because this is what I have written earlier to others:


Job, He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.


1. This is the oldest story thought to be recorded, it could be before the time of the flood.

2. First!! Remember our objective: All humans are to develop and grow in Godly type love (agape) of God and other humans.

3. God’s objective is the most selfless, in that He has and will do everything to help willing human individually develop and grow Godly type love (help us fulfill our objective).

4. In the story of Job, we can see God is in charge, satan can only do what God allows Satan to do.

5. God has power over Satan and could destroy Satan at any time, so Satan has an purpose that forces God to allow Satan to stick around.

6. From the story we see Satan doing the bad stuff to good people and God allowing Satan to do this bad stuff.

7. Bad stuff is never bad for the individual that loves God: Rm8: 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him. What good can Job get out of this discipline, trial, learning experience?

8. Job would have been praying for himself like he prayed for his kids: Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom. Job’s pray would easily been to ask to love more and grow spiritually.

9. We can not stop, we have to be growing or we will start withering spiritually. Where Job is in his spiritual growth at the beginning seem to be far down the path so further growing could be a challenge and require a new level.

10. Job is fantastic at the beginning of the story, but he is not perfect, he can still do a lot of growing.

11. I think we can agree that Job is personally a better person (spiritually stronger) at the end of the story then at the beginning, so what was Job’s weakness in the beginning that God would know and realize? If we could figure this out we could figure what was needed to help Job. Would a burning bush experience help Job?

12. This is another situation in which God works with an individual personally. God is working with each of us very similarly.

13. We do not know how God worked individually with each of Job’s kids, but He was and they joined God in heaven and would be there when Job got there.

14. It has been my experience people (including myself) really hate to humble ourselves. It is like being baptized, people use every excuse for not being baptized that comes down to being a sign of humility they will not do.



At the end we see a changed Job:


1 Then Job replied to the LORD :

2 "I know that you can do all things;

no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'

Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,

things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you

but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself

and repent in dust and ashes."

The fact Job talks of “repenting”, means he realized he sinned, so what was Job’s sin?

Here seems to be the problem: Job 31: 35 (“Oh, that I had someone to hear me! I sign now my defense—let the Almighty answer me; let my accuser put his indictment in writing. 36 Surely I would wear it on my shoulder, I would put it on like a crown. 37 I would give him an account of my every step; I would present it to him as to a ruler.)—

From this and previous verses Job has lower God to his level like he could argue his case before God and win. Job would not have admitted that deep in his heart early on he saw God as being like some superior human being and not above making any mistakes, so it would take a huge upheaval in Job’s life to get him to realize this weakness in himself.



Job was humbled in the end, but why go through all this would there not be an easier way? If God had spoken directly to Job prior to all this would Job not have listened? I would say, “NO”. Job would have said, I know Lord (when he really didn’t) Job would not have said what he did say in the end and that is what he needed to say. How do you get Job to say what he did without going through what he experienced. If you had asked Job in the beginning, “do you know the Lord”, he would have said, “yes” for he knew the Lord better than anyone else at the time. God does not want you to just be the best, but the best you can be and that is what Job wanted.

Just some thoughts, I really love Job and thank God for this story.

Where is it written that God was "manipulating" Satan?

(see post #283)

 

[bling]

Where is it written that God was "manipulating" Satan?

(see post #283)

That is my description of what happened, but how would you describe it?

 

[brinny]

That is my description of what happened, but how would you describe it?

Where is it written that God was "manipulating" Satan?

(The only description of what happened that i give credence to, is God's.)

 

[bling]

Where is it written that God was "manipulating" Satan?

(The only description of what happened that i give credence to, is God's.)

The words I use to describe what happened are not significant, what we do know is God talked with satan and satan went out and tried to get Job to sin, so is that what God was wanting satan to do and if it was than it is kind of manipulative since God did not tell satan to do it?

 

[brinny]

The words I use to describe what happened are not significant, what we do know is God talked with satan and satan went out and tried to get Job to sin, so is that what God was wanting satan to do and if it was than it is kind of manipulative since God did not tell satan to do it?

Is that what is written?

 

[brinny]

I did not say: “God was goading Job”, but God was manipulating satan, to get satan to do what God would not do directly to the innocent.

Look at this at least, because this is what I have written earlier to others:


Job, He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.


1. This is the oldest story thought to be recorded, it could be before the time of the flood.

2. First!! Remember our objective: All humans are to develop and grow in Godly type love (agape) of God and other humans.

3. God’s objective is the most selfless, in that He has and will do everything to help willing human individually develop and grow Godly type love (help us fulfill our objective).

4. In the story of Job, we can see God is in charge, satan can only do what God allows Satan to do.

5. God has power over Satan and could destroy Satan at any time, so Satan has an purpose that forces God to allow Satan to stick around.

6. From the story we see Satan doing the bad stuff to good people and God allowing Satan to do this bad stuff.

7. Bad stuff is never bad for the individual that loves God: Rm8: 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him. What good can Job get out of this discipline, trial, learning experience?

8. Job would have been praying for himself like he prayed for his kids: Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom. Job’s pray would easily been to ask to love more and grow spiritually.

9. We can not stop, we have to be growing or we will start withering spiritually. Where Job is in his spiritual growth at the beginning seem to be far down the path so further growing could be a challenge and require a new level.

10. Job is fantastic at the beginning of the story, but he is not perfect, he can still do a lot of growing.

11. I think we can agree that Job is personally a better person (spiritually stronger) at the end of the story then at the beginning, so what was Job’s weakness in the beginning that God would know and realize? If we could figure this out we could figure what was needed to help Job. Would a burning bush experience help Job?

12. This is another situation in which God works with an individual personally. God is working with each of us very similarly.

13. We do not know how God worked individually with each of Job’s kids, but He was and they joined God in heaven and would be there when Job got there.

14. It has been my experience people (including myself) really hate to humble ourselves. It is like being baptized, people use every excuse for not being baptized that comes down to being a sign of humility they will not do.



At the end we see a changed Job:


1 Then Job replied to the LORD :

2 "I know that you can do all things;

no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'

Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,

things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you

but now my eyes have seen you.

6 Therefore I despise myself

and repent in dust and ashes."

The fact Job talks of “repenting”, means he realized he sinned, so what was Job’s sin?

Here seems to be the problem: Job 31: 35 (“Oh, that I had someone to hear me! I sign now my defense—let the Almighty answer me; let my accuser put his indictment in writing. 36 Surely I would wear it on my shoulder, I would put it on like a crown. 37 I would give him an account of my every step; I would present it to him as to a ruler.)—

From this and previous verses Job has lower God to his level like he could argue his case before God and win. Job would not have admitted that deep in his heart early on he saw God as being like some superior human being and not above making any mistakes, so it would take a huge upheaval in Job’s life to get him to realize this weakness in himself.



Job was humbled in the end, but why go through all this would there not be an easier way? If God had spoken directly to Job prior to all this would Job not have listened? I would say, “NO”. Job would have said, I know Lord (when he really didn’t) Job would not have said what he did say in the end and that is what he needed to say. How do you get Job to say what he did without going through what he experienced. If you had asked Job in the beginning, “do you know the Lord”, he would have said, “yes” for he knew the Lord better than anyone else at the time. God does not want you to just be the best, but the best you can be and that is what Job wanted.

Just some thoughts, I really love Job and thank God for this story.

See post #903....i edited it to correct a mistake.

Thank you.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

After God restores Job, what happens to his wife and his three friends?

Job's life was like a country song, and you know what happens when you play country music backwards: you get your wife back, your job back, your dog back. . .

 

[brinny]

Job's life was like a country song, and you know what happens when you play country music backwards: you get your wife back, your job back, your dog back. . .

LOL!

Would you want that wife back?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

LOL!

Would you want that wife back?

Marriage is for life. My poor wife is stuck with me, and Job was stuck with her.

 

[brinny]

Marriage is for life. My poor wife is stuck with me, and Job was stuck with her.

I thinks when she stormed off after telling Job to just go ahead already and curse God and die, and that after all was said and done, Job got a new wife, cuz the other one done jumped ship and was anything but a blessing to him.

LOL!

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I thinks when she stormed off after telling Job to just go ahead already and curse God and die, and that after all was said and done, Job got a new wife, cuz the other one done jumped ship and was anything but a blessing to him.

LOL!

I hope so, for Job's sake; however, have I not had a heart more like her than Job when terrible suffering has met me? I have, but God has also been merciful in correcting me, and He has done so with patience.

 

[JoeP222w]

After God restores Job, what happens to his wife and his three friends?

The Bible is silent on this. Where the Bible is silent, it is not good to speculate.

 

[brinny]

I hope so, for Job's sake; however, have I not had a heart more like her than Job when terrible suffering has met me? I have, but God has also been merciful in correcting me, and He has done so with patience.

It had to stab Job in the heart when his own wife did this as he sat on a dung heap, with sores from head to foot, with worms in them, and his deeper than deep wounds and struggles, as it was most likely at his very worst point in all of it that his wife came to kick him when he was down.

Her suffering was nothing compared to his. She contributed to Job's inexplicable suffering, and was used by Satan to dig into Job even moreso.

Ouch.

 

[brinny]

The Bible is silent on this. Where the Bible is silent, it is not good to speculate.

Actually, yes, the Bible is silent on ever hearing from Job's wife again. Interestingly enough, her name is never mentioned.

However for the three men referred to as Job's friends, there is mention of God's response to them, and what He said to them.

 

[brinny]

Summary of the Book of Job.

i may have posted this video earlier in this thread. I agree with most of what the speaker says on the video. It's a good listen, however it is rather lengthy hahaaa. If one were to listen, it would probably be best to listen in "increments", as it IS over 6 hours long.

It's one of the best summaries/studies on the book of Job i've ever heard.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

It had to stab Job in the heart when his own wife did this as he sat on a dung heap, with sores from head to foot, with worms in them, and his deeper than deep wounds and struggles, as it was most likely at his very worst point in all of it that his wife came to kick him when he was down.

Her suffering was nothing compared to his. She contributed to Job's inexplicable suffering, and was used by Satan to dig into Job even moreso.

Ouch.

Yes. We know all about Job's suffering, but she suffered the same losses, sans the boils. All of her children were killed in one day! Ten funerals at once!!! One is enough to mortally wound a mother. . .

What I am saying, is that we ought to be careful how we judge her, as under similar conditions, we might do the same. Might we not be so wounded by suffering that our pain turns to anger? I know that I stand on no higher moral ground than she, which is why I need a Savior.

Christ, the just, bore beatings, nails pounded through His hands and feet, and God's wrath, all while He was innocent. He bore the suffering without doubting the Father's goodness, and He did that on my behalf.

The Most Misunderstood Woman in the Bible