A question about Job.

[brinny]

Yes. We know all about Job's suffering, but she suffered the same losses, sans the boils. All of her children were killed in one day! Ten funerals at once!!! One is enough to mortally wound a mother. . .

What I am saying, is that we ought to be careful how we judge her, as under similar conditions, we might do the same. Might we not be so wounded by suffering that our pain turns to anger? I know that I stand on no higher moral ground than she, which is why I need a Savior.

Christ, the just, bore beatings, nails pounded through His hands and feet, and God's wrath, all while He was innocent. He bore the suffering without doubting the Father's goodness, and He did that on my behalf.

The Most Misunderstood Woman in the Bible

In the meantime Job is sitting on a dung heap, with Satan doing everything he can to torture Job (even in his sleep) then during waking hours, his "friends" denigrate him and accuse him of all kinds of evil. The bottom line here, is that Satan was using these three "friends" to pummel at Job even as he suffered inexplicably. Satan used Job's wife to plunge that fiery arrow in at the very time he was his absolute lowest. She attacked him, even as she said that he was/is a man of integrity. She however, was incensed that he was, for she neither cared for Job's integrity nor his God. What is most profound for me, is that he was suffering in every way possible, and she had no comfort, words of encouragement, or even prayers.

In all of this, her name is never mentioned. It's a similar theme for others throughout the Bible. For instance Jabez's mother. Her name is never mentioned. It appears that there are some throughout the Bible who disappear into obscurity, such as Job's wife.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

In the meantime Job is sitting on a dung heap, with Satan doing everything he can to torture Job (even in his sleep) then during waking hours, his "friends" denigrate him and accuse him of all kinds of evil. The bottom line here, is that Satan was using these three "friends" to pummel at Job even as he suffered inexplicably. Satan used Job's wife to plunge that fiery arrow in at the very time he was his absolute lowest. She attacked him, even as she said that he was/is a man of integrity. She however, was incensed that he was, for she neither cared for Job's integrity nor his God. What is most profound for me, is that he was suffering in every way possible, and she had no comfort, words of encouragement, or even prayers.

In all of this, her name is never mentioned. It's a similar theme for others throughout the Bible. For instance Jabez's mother. Her name is never mentioned. It appears that there are some throughout the Bible who disappear into obscurity, such as Job's wife.

I'm in now way saying that she acted righteously.

Don't you have compassion of people who Satan has used? He used Adam and Eve, the apostle Peter, and me.

 

[brinny]

I'm in now way saying that she acted righteously.

Don't you have compassion of people who Satan has used? He used Adam and Eve, the apostle Peter, and me.

LOL!

Job is one of the most dismissed and disregarded men of God in the Bible. Satan was targeting Job, and he was suffering excruciatingly. I'm amazed he didn't just lose his mind.

Poor Job.

 

[brinny]

Job: Dark night of the soul.

 

[brinny]

​

 

[brinny]

Poor Job.

He didn't know what hit him.

Then his 3 "friends" come. (With "friends" like this, who needs enemies?)

And lo and behold, the best part?

His wife comes along and REALLY "helps" and "comforts" her inexplicably and excruciatingly suffering husband, who was sitting on a dung heap with sores from head to foot with worms crawling and wriggling in and out of them. And she doesn't even "pray" for him. Rather, she basically tells him to just go ahead and curse God and die already. No WONDER she remains "nameless" and is barely mentioned, but faded into obscurity, just like Jabez's mother, and Lot's wife who also remained nameless. But wait a minute, Lot's wife didn't fade away into obscurity. That's right, she became memorialized, so to speak.

She became a pillar o' salt.

 

[JackRT]

When we read Job we must always remember that this is not a literal history that is being recounted. It is a moral tale or fiction somewhat like an extended parable. Without knowing that or the context of the story most people usually miss the entire meaning.

 

[brinny]

When we read Job we must always remember that this is not a literal history that is being recounted. It is a moral tale or fiction somewhat like an extended parable. Without knowing that or the context of the story most people usually miss the entire meaning.

Your opinion is noted.

Thank you for sharing it.

 

[brinny]

Poor Job.

(I just posted this in another thread. Yet one more time, the "explanation" for what happened to Job, is because he needed to be "chastised", taught a "lesson".)

Here's my response:

What happened to Job had nothing to do with "Job". It was not to "teach him a lesson", or to "chasten" or to punish him. It was between God and Satan. Job did not know any of this. (Refer back to the conversation that God and Satan had about Job).

The bottom line here, is that Job did NOT curse God, as Satan was aiming for, and what his own wife told him to do. She said this to him, all the while, calling him a man of integrity. She was basically telling Job to give up his integrity, go ahead and curse God, and die already. She did this even as he was sitting on a dung heap with sores from head to foot with worms crawling and wriggling in and out of them. And she doesn't even "pray" for him. Rather, she basically tells him to just go ahead and curse God and die already.

He repented for his limited vision of God in all of this.

His lamentations themselves were not sin. God allowed sAtan to do these horrendous things to Job BECAUSE of what is written in the very beginning of the book of Job, and what God repeated again.

And that is this:

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." ~Job 1:1

THIS never changed. THAT is why God allowed Satan to afflict Job. It was BECAUSE Job was all of these things.

And the bottom line is that Job did NOT curse God.

He never gave up his integrity or compromised it.

He was, as every Godly man throughout Biblical history did, and that is to be honest with God and pour out whatever was on his heart, to God.

Did he "sin"?

Who ELSE is he going to lament to?

Who ELSE has he got?

What ELSE does he do when God is silent?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Poor Job.

He didn't know what hit him.

Then his 3 "friends" come. (With "friends" like this, who needs enemies?)

And lo and behold, the best part?

His wife comes along and REALLY "helps" and "comforts" her inexplicably and excruciatingly suffering husband, who was sitting on a dung heap with sores from head to foot with worms crawling and wriggling in and out of them. And she doesn't even "pray" for him. Rather, she basically tells him to just go ahead and curse God and die already. No WONDER she remains "nameless" and is barely mentioned, but faded into obscurity, just like Jabez's mother, and Lot's wife who also remained nameless. But wait a minute, Lot's wife didn't fade away into obscurity. That's right, she became memorialized, so to speak.

She became a pillar o' salt.

Job 2:
9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!” 10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

11 Now when Job’s three friends heard of all this adversity that had come upon him, they came each one from his own place, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite; and they made an appointment together to come to sympathize with him and comfort him. 12When they lifted up their eyes at a distance and did not recognize him, they raised their voices and wept. And each of them tore his robe and they threw dust over their heads toward the sky. 13Then they sat down on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights with no one speaking a word to him, for they saw that his pain was very great...................

After all of that talking, the LORD rebuked them and made them take some bulls and rams to barbeque.........

Job 42:

7 It came about after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has. 8 “Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, and go to My servant Job, and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves, and My servant Job will pray for you. For I will accept him so that I may not do with you according to your folly, because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job...........

..............................

 

[brinny]

Job 2:
9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!” 10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

11 Now when Job’s three friends heard of all this adversity that had come upon him, they came each one from his own place, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite; and they made an appointment together to come to sympathize with him and comfort him. 12When they lifted up their eyes at a distance and did not recognize him, they raised their voices and wept. And each of them tore his robe and they threw dust over their heads toward the sky. 13Then they sat down on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights with no one speaking a word to him, for they saw that his pain was very great...................

After all of that talking, the LORD rebuked them and made them take som bulls and rams to barbeque.........

Job 42:

7 It came about after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends, because you have not spoken of Me what is right as My servant Job has. 8 “Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, and go to My servant Job, and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves, and My servant Job will pray for you. For I will accept him so that I may not do with you according to your folly, because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went and did as the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job...........

..............................

LOL! Nice segway

Are you sure you don't host a radio or talk show?

By the way, what comes to mind for me about Jobs "friends" and God help us, his wife, is...

with friends like this, who needs enemies?

And the same with his wife......just kick him when he's down, yeah, that's what he needs...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LOL! Nice segway

Are you sure you don't host a radio or talk show?..............
...

I wanted to host the "Gong Show", but, I was too tall and spoke with a funny accent that they found hard to understand eheheh.
[btw, what iz a "segway"]

1Co 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love,
I am as a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

[brinny]

I wanted to host the "Gong Show", but, I was too tall and spoke with a funny accent that they found hard to understand eheheh.
[btw, what iz a "segway"]

1Co 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love,
I am as a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

LOL!

A segway is what tv and radio programs work into their programs to to make a transition without interruption from one thing to another

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LOL!

A segway is what tv and radio programs work into their programs to to make a transition without interruption from one thing to another

Ahhhh. Kind of like a "translation"?

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Hebrews 7:12
For being translated/metatiqemenhV<3346> (5746) the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a translation/metaqesiV <3331> is becoming,

Hebrew 11:
5 To faith Enoch was translated/meteteqh <3346> (5681) of the no to be seeing death and not was found thru translating/meteqhken <3346> (5656) him.
For the God, before the translation/metaqesewV <3331> of him, he has been witnessed to have well pleased to the God.

3346. metatithemi met-at-ith'-ay-mee from 3326 and 5087; to transfer, i.e. (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:--carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.

 

[brinny]

Ahhhh. Kind of like a "translation"?

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Hebrews 7:12
For being translated/metatiqemenhV<3346> (5746) the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a translation/metaqesiV <3331> is becoming,

Hebrew 11:
5 To faith Enoch was translated/meteteqh <3346> (5681) of the no to be seeing death and not was found thru translating/meteqhken <3346> (5656) him.
For the God, before the translation/metaqesewV <3331> of him, he has been witnessed to have well pleased to the God.

3346. metatithemi met-at-ith'-ay-mee from 3326 and 5087; to transfer, i.e. (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert:--carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.

LOL! No, a "lead-in" to a subject.

Interesting post though

 

[brinny]

As far as I can see, the story of Job centres on Job being righteous. There is no indication at all that Job suffered as a result of sin, or personal quirks, or a thousand different other things.

God said he was a righteous man; Satan said that he bet that he could change that, and God said fine.
He was tested, and found to be righteous. He was righteous in his own eyes. He was righteous in God's eyes. In fact, in the eyes of the one who would have known him the best, his wife, it can be inferred that she believed that he was righteous, and it was God that was not righteous "Curse God and die", therefore.
There are many still that walk away from reading Job with that impression. The whole idea of allowing every kind of evil befall Job, not as a result of justice, but in order to win a bet with the Satan, many find troublesome.

Otherwise, it could always be said that he suffered on account of his sins, and that is what would have been the case if Job was in any way not righteous.

As it was he was not unrighteous; he was simply wrong. The worldview that he shared with his wife, and his friends, and the whole of ancient society, was wrong. People are not born into poverty and suffering due to the fact that they deserve to be there. People are not born into the lap of luxury on account of their perfection and their merit to have all that.

Like Abraham taking Isaac up the mountain to slaughter the son of promise, it doesn't make sense to have faith in God and believe that God is good and author of justice, and yet would order the world in the way that he does.
And yet, even as it does not make sense, Abraham and now Job placed their trust in God anyway, that he is just and all knowing and it is human limitation that is deficient for understanding of the profound mystery of suffering.

We put dogs down when they reach a level of suffering where it makes sense. It is unfair that we allow them to go on in pain when all rational hope of something better is gone. People today make the same rational choice about their own lives, where it makes better sense to say enough and just go die, as Job's wife advocated. That is to say that it really is God's fault that we suffer, because creation itself is imperfect, and death is the corrective.
It takes absolute faith to carry on through the intense pain and suffering, without seeing any reason for it, except to believe that God does not make mistakes, and that a human life is worth much much more than the pain involved in carrying on.

Just now reading this again, and you are spot on.

 

[brinny]

In listening to this song....and those profoundly descriptive lyrics, i think that this would very well apply to Job.

Heart-wrenching.

I don't know how he bore what he did for so long.

It also applies to any of us who are just so "worn".

I'm Tired I'm worn
My heart is heavy
From the work it takes
To keep on breathing
I've made mistakes
I've let my hope fail
My soul feels crushed
By the weight of this world

And I know that you can give me rest
So I cry out with all that I have left

Let me see redemption win
Let me know the struggle ends
That you can mend a heart
That's frail and torn
I wanna know a song can rise
From the ashes of a broken life
And all that's dead inside can be reborn
Cause I'm worn

I know I need to lift my eyes up
But I'm too weak
Life just won't let up
And I know that you can give me rest
So I cry out with all that I have left

Let me see redemption win
Let me know the struggle ends
That you can mend a heart
That's frail and torn
I wanna know a song can rise
From the ashes of a broken life
And all that's dead inside can be reborn
Cause I'm worn

My prayers are wearing thin
Yeah, I'm worn
Even before the day begins
Yeah, I'm worn
I've lost my will to fight
I'm worn
So, heaven come and flood my eyes

Let me see redemption win
Let me know the struggle ends
That you can mend a heart
That's frail and torn
I wanna know a song can rise
From the ashes of a broken life
And all that's dead inside can be reborn
Cause all that's dead inside will be reborn

Though I'm worn
Yeah I'm worn

 

[brinny]

Elihu: A blessing or a curse?

A beloved Bible teacher is teaching on the book of Job. He's on "Elihu". And he's prattling on and on about the "right-ness" of Elihu.

I agree with this guy, Shane.

"While I respect the many commentators who take a positive view of Elihu, I completely disagree with this sentiment. In short, I believe Elihu is an arrogant blowhard, and that while he thinks he is making a new contribution to the dialogue between Job and the friends, he actually just rehashes what has already been said."

The bottom line, is that Elihu was an "arrogant blowhard".

I could elaborate right now, but i'll just post the link to Shane's expository on Elihu below.

Reflections on Job, Part 7 - What to do with Elihu?

Link --> http://thinkingthroughfaith.com/2017/08/04/reflections-on-job-part-7-what-to-do-with-elihu/

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry brinny, that's not right.

 

[brinny]

Sorry brinny, that's not right.

What isn't right. Jeff?