29 & Never Dated

[pc_76]

Saying to give up on women isn't making it much better either.

 

[VanillaLion]

@myst33 I am female =]

 

[ThisIsMe123]

I believe you. I'm not in the loop in the manner I was in the past. I'm not mentoring anymore. All my friends are married. I don't see and hear the things I used to. It sounds like its worse.

Like I said in my other post...it is uncharacteristic for a Christian not to desire whatsoever to find someone to add to their life. I can understand in secular circles, but heck...some are dating, and not marrying.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

On multiple occasions, Christian women have said to each other that there's no one in the area to date in my presence. I hope they like cats.

Right, it's pretty sad when women are so unreasonably picky, they rule out an entire of city of men. lol

 

[ThisIsMe123]

Are you male or female?

Most men cope with being single quite fine, after 35, because their hormones get stabilized and they built some career, friendships etc. They buy a dog, do sports, read books, find some community and are quite happy. Many even openly prefer a single life.

But its worse for women, many of them "hit the wall" after 35, when their maternal instincts get crazy and they want children, but its too late for them to find a stable relationship. And career, sports and just (mostly married) friends do not make them happy anymore. They would prefer to have a family, if they could.

Summary: while men want woman/family less and less as they age, its the opposite with women, they want family, children etc. more and more as they age.

Yeah, I had to cut ties with a woman that I was dating that was just over 40 that wanted kids in her life. I was 45 at the time of me dating her, and that was a big nope for me. That was the reason she broke up with her last boyfriend. He didn't to have kids in his 40s either.

 

[ThisIsMe123]

I would say that socially at least, I am an oddball among Christian men because I have always had social issues, since before I became a Christian. When I have treated interactions too simply, I have paid a price for it, and when male-female interactions are treated too simply, I have been burned every time. If it were simple, women would say what they mean, and mean what they say, and I could do the same thing and that wouldn't cause them to lose interest.

I am noticing a common theme here, and please take no offense....that those who hang out on message boards like this (Christian or not) are the ones struggling with dating or just socialization skills.

I'm sure Christians that have a healthy social life don't hang out on message boards and totally unaware of this sliver of a percentage that do hang out here.

 

[bèlla]

Like I said in my other post...it is uncharacteristic for a Christian not to desire whatsoever to find someone to add to their life. I can understand in secular circles, but heck...some are dating, and not marrying.

Great to see you! I hope all is well in your world.

I have limited exposure to the Christian experience. Especially in this area. I’ve been in a dating bubble all my life. I’m encountering things on this side of the aisle that weren’t a factor elsewhere.

That’s not to say the same didn’t occur in secular circles. But I wasn’t acquainted with anyone dealing with it. We all were partnered.

For me, companionship is a given. Just like the sun will rise there’ll be a man. I don’t feel pressured to make something happen. He always comes. When I’m ready to jump back in I do. And a connection follows.

Relating is easy for me. Whether I’m dealing with men or women. I don’t have difficulty forming bonds.

 

[bèlla]

I am noticing a common theme here, and please take no offense....that those who hang out on message boards like this (Christian or not) are the ones struggling with dating or just socialization skills.

I'm sure Christians that have a healthy social life don't hang out on message boards and totally unaware of this sliver of a percentage that do hang out here.

I agree. I’ve heard a lot of things I’ve never encountered on this site. Not just pertaining to dating. But the social and mental health challenges too. I’ve had to google some terms. I didn’t know anyone dealing with it or that it existed at all.

 

[Sketcher]

I am noticing a common theme here, and please take no offense....that those who hang out on message boards like this (Christian or not) are the ones struggling with dating or just socialization skills.

I'm sure Christians that have a healthy social life don't hang out on message boards and totally unaware of this sliver of a percentage that do hang out here.

Yep, pretty much. Social media is more mainstream. That of course brings it's own problems to dating and relationships.

 

[Sketcher]

But pray to God for a wife and He will make it happen

This is not always true. God simply does not care as much about our love lives as we do. And we simply do not care as much about our own holiness and moral purity as he does. He's still worth following but it is what it is.

Since Messiah was already born, God has less incentive to ensure certain people get married.

 

[bèlla]

If it were simple, women would say what they mean, and mean what they say, and I could do the same thing and that wouldn't cause them to lose interest.

How do you discover what they're seeking? Personally, I don't think Christian men are forthcoming on this subject. Many dance around their interest. I'm not a mind reader. I won't try to figure him out. Just tell me. I don't like innuendo. I like straight shooters.

I understand why some are unwilling to do that. But the alternative isn't helpful. I won't consider him. I'll look at the one willing to acknowledge his attraction. Communication is important. I want to know who you are, what you like, your needs, and so on. But I don't want to extract it. He needs to talk to me.

Been on dates before. Coming up on 15 years since the last one. Never had a relationship, ever. Yes, I am an oddball.

That's incredible. Were relationships discussed growing up? How to date and such?

Which is a problem for me. My mom is like that, she stayed with my dad, women who are less than that would have left him. I'm just like my dad in a lot of ways, so if I don't want to get divorced, I'll need to find a woman with those qualities so she will stay with me.

They exist. I've mentored my share. Oftentimes that's the result of upbringing. The women in my family are all traditional. They worked but the roles were evident. Male head of household with a loving and domestic spouse who followed him.

I'm the same. But I'm extreme. I can't do what they did. I have to go all out! That's my personality. Nevertheless, I require that structure. I don't want to wear the pants. But I don't want someone unwilling to listen. There must be a mutual regard for our gifts and talents.

If women want to say the world has changed - OK, but you're not going to get love, commitment, or resources from me. I'm not going to settle for someone whom I believe is going to leave me or disrespect me or downgrade my life.

That begins and ends with the triangle. You need three components for a successful relationship: respect, love, and admiration. When you give a man respect and admiration you encounter a different side of him. You're feeding the thing the world despises and attacks. You're restoring what they're destroying.

Belief is powerful. Many underestimate the value it adds to their relationship. You may be the only one who believes and affirms him on a regular basis. You can't assume he's getting it elsewhere. And even so, that's part of nurturing the garden. Your pour liberally into him and you get a stronger man. That's a win/win for both.

I'm an introvert, working from home by myself this last year has been pretty good. Trading my solitude and my personal space and making myself vulnerable is a big ask, and if she's not going to provide what I want in return, it's a bad deal that I'm not going to take.

What do you want?

I'm willing to be counted as the least attractive man there, but none of those guys were good enough either? And the women in that case were not anywhere close to being models. Good enough to get somebody she'd be interested in, sure - but very average.

I think the elephant in the room isn't looks. It's masculinity. Many women are desirous of a specific energy they identify as male. That doesn't imply the other isn't. It's a different flavor. They're looking for the force...the gust of wind...the whoosh.

I know that because I'm the same. I'm drawn to a specific 'male energy' that's compelling. It's proactive, a little dominant, with a measured certainty he exudes naturally. He's comfortable in his own skin. It resonates because he complements my essence. When the two come together its magnetic. He draws out my womanliness in a manner others can't. I'm sedate with them. They can't touch that part of me.

I would never say there's no men around. I'm looking for a different energy and I can articulate it. I've tried engaging with someone who didn't have it. But it didn't work. It felt forced. I didn't flow in that state. I was swimming upstream. When I have it I'm in the zone.

Threads get locked when those kinds of things are discussed now. Not saying you would get triggered, but others will.

That's unfortunate. Hopefully, that won't be the case.

 

[Sketcher]

And the church isn't even addressing this, yet they are still lecturing that men have impure thoughts. Hypocritical.

Saying to give up on women isn't making it much better either.

I think that's a product of trying to speak to the largest swath of males possible, to circumstances they can't really relate to or are trained in, but they feel compelled to say something anyway. Teachers need to not teach what they don't know. Of course, since my predicament is extra, it makes sense that mainstream advice hasn't worked for me. When advice relies on a certain level of extraversion in order to work, and I don't have it, then it doesn't work for me, and when it was given by people who have it, they don't realize how or why what worked for them fell short. The people who understand the depth of the problem are the same ones that don't know how to get out. And the people who never were in it this much never had to get out of being tangled in it at this level.

Now, I work at a company of nerds so I work with the secular versions of guys like me. There was one middle aged guy who was very outgoing and he claimed he used to be just like us, a serious medical problem where he thought he was going to die caused him to throw away his filter between brain and mouth. However, he also said and did a lot of socially unacceptable things. And he was twice divorced and got into bad relationships. So the closest living example I have of someone who got out of being too shy is a poor example to follow.

 

[Sketcher]

How do you discover what they're seeking? Personally, I don't think Christian men are forthcoming on this subject. Many dance around their interest. I'm not a mind reader. I won't try to figure him out. Just tell me. I don't like innuendo. I like straight shooters.

I understand why some are unwilling to do that. But the alternative isn't helpful. I won't consider him. I'll look at the one willing to acknowledge his attraction. Communication is important. I want to know who you are, what you like, your needs, and so on. But I don't want to extract it. He needs to talk to me.

I was part of a generation of Christian men that was told not to do that, but was also told to pursue at the same time, with no practical advice except for "stop looking". If someone's extraverted enough, then enough of that can leak out so a relationship can eventually be established, but there was no encouragement or practical training to similarly bring introverts like me to the middle. And even if there was, that's outside of what I was really getting at, which was, if you tell a female friend or acquaintance you're interested, or show interest in her, she instinctively becomes less interested.

That's incredible. Were relationships discussed growing up? How to date and such?

No, not much. My dad's dad traveled a lot for his work, and they were traditional Catholics. There was an arrangement for my dad to marry a family friend's daughter, and he wasn't impressed with that, plus he wanted to do missions, so he went to school to become a priest. He essentially became Protestant during his studies and they wouldn't ordain him, so he went to college, met my mom in Latin class, and the rest is history. He didn't tell me very much about dating growing up, "just have confidence". I don't think he had a whole lot to offer on the ins and outs, given his background.

The issue with that advice is I need reasons to be confident, and that's not a reason, that's a need. Reasons would be that I have this trait that is attractive, or this trait that will make someone want to be closer to me rather than distance themselves. It's as much of a faith in humanity thing as it is liking myself. I seem to be mismatched - God might not have made junk, but people don't value what he did well in me enough to give me the social regard that attractive guys get for free.

They exist. I've mentored my share. Oftentimes that's the result of upbringing. The women in my family are all traditional. They worked but the roles were evident. Male head of household with a loving and domestic spouse who followed him.

I'm the same. But I'm extreme. I can't do what they did. I have to go all out! That's my personality. Nevertheless, I require that structure. I don't want to wear the pants. But I don't want someone unwilling to listen. There must be a mutual regard for our gifts and talents.

Some still do, but I have to find them, and they also have to find me attractive, and they should have good enough heads on their shoulders to reject liberal ideas that encourage women to be the opposite way. Simply being sheltered isn't enough. Her mind needs to be resistant to the mind virus that is the rejection of these good traits.

That begins and ends with the triangle. You need three components for a successful relationship: respect, love, and admiration. When you give a man respect and admiration you encounter a different side of him. You're feeding the thing the world despises and attacks. You're restoring what they're destroying.

Belief is powerful. Many underestimate the value it adds to their relationship. You may be the only one who believes and affirms him on a regular basis. You can't assume he's getting it elsewhere. And even so, that's part of nurturing the garden. Your pour liberally into him and you get a stronger man. That's a win/win for both.

That sounds wonderful. If that happens to me, I hope I don't blow it by showing too much appreciation at once. If you do that, women see you as needy and that is the beginning of the end.

What do you want?

Out of a wife? Respect, peace, sex, honesty, honor, faithfulness, someone who can do things I can't get around to because I'm only one person, someone who can take me to/from the doctor if I become incapacitated (I have an upcoming procedure), someone who will be a good aunt to my nephews and niece, someone who will be a good mother to any children we might have (and it frustrates me that I am still apprehensive at the thought of having kids since having a confident answer to that question is needed), and someone who can endure me and stay with me when I'm at my worst. I do what I can to avoid getting there, but she has to be willing and able to weather my inevitable failures.

All that, and there should be no room for controversy as to the legitimacy of the union. That means Christian, and no living ex-spouses. Preferably no living exes she's lived with. Optimally, no living sexual partners at all since that goes beyond legitimacy and confers other benefits. If she's a virgin, that's easiest, less to deal with and I need all the help I can get.

I think the elephant in the room isn't looks. It's masculinity. Many women are desirous of a specific energy they identify as male. That doesn't imply the other isn't. It's a different flavor. They're looking for the force...the gust of wind...the whoosh.

I know that because I'm the same. I'm drawn to a specific 'male energy' that's compelling. It's proactive, a little dominant, with a measured certainty he exudes naturally. He's comfortable in his own skin. It resonates because he complements my essence. When the two come together its magnetic. He draws out my womanliness in a manner others can't. I'm sedate with them. They can't touch that part of me.

I would never say there's no men around. I'm looking for a different energy and I can articulate it. I've tried engaging with someone who didn't have it. But it didn't work. It felt forced. I didn't flow in that state. I was swimming upstream. When I have it I'm in the zone.

That's more than just masculinity, the guys there were all masculine, a couple were former athletes, another grew up farming. What I think you're getting at is the alpha male stereotype, which is a minority of men, I've heard between the top 5% or 20%, I'm not exactly sure what it is. But if that's all that most women really want, there's a serious imbalance. And if you're not one of those guys, if the girl you're with is settling, then how safe and solid is that relationship, really?

 

[DragonFox91]

The only thing people ever tell me about dating is 'it'll happen when it happens' & 'just ask her out!'

I am noticing a common theme here, and please take no offense....that those who hang out on message boards like this (Christian or not) are the ones struggling with dating or just socialization skills.

I'm sure Christians that have a healthy social life don't hang out on message boards and totally unaware of this sliver of a percentage that do hang out here.

I socialize & expand my network & do not meet single women my age range, just men & women too old, too young, or married. My counselor tells me maybe someday someone will introduce a single girl they know, but it never happens. I think there's a whole 'people don't play matchmaker' thing.

 

[bèlla]

I was part of a generation of Christian men that was told not to do that, but was also told to pursue at the same time, with no practical advice except for "stop looking".

I think many were told the same. Christian and otherwise. There was a time when I allowed it. I didn't know any better. But having a large group of friends drove the problem home. We were all confused. We spent hours trying to figure them out. What does he mean? What is this about? And so on.

Half the time you're guessing and mistakes follow. I reached my breaking point. I saw where it was heading. That's how you end up jaded and bitter. The song I posted recently by Alanis references that period. We can't all be dumb. We can't be in the dark. Something has to give. And that something was me.

I encountered someone who required me to spit it out. He refused to dance or accept innuendo. I had to tell him what I wanted. And I was nervous. But the experience was liberating. I began doing the same. In the beginning men were shocked. I asked the question and they started wiggling.

Eventually I reached the point where I knew my guy. I could spot him in a room or on a forum. I made it my business to know him. I no longer encountered suitors who were afraid to do the same. We were a lot alike. Transparency became a selling point. There were no more guessing games.

If someone's extraverted enough, then enough of that can leak out so a relationship can eventually be established, but there was no encouragement or practical training to similarly bring introverts like me to the middle. And even if there was, that's outside of what I was really getting at, which was, if you tell a female friend or acquaintance you're interested, or show interest in her, she instinctively becomes less interested.

I sensed from the comments here there wasn't a lot of preparation. As a parent, that's unrealistic. You can't expect a child to be relationship savvy. You have to prepare and educate them about the opposite sex while encouraging self-discovery. The better he knows himself the easier it will be to find his complement. He won't be swayed by qualities that are important, but less important than the bigger things he should focus on.

What follows is an over spiritualization of the process. They've taken head knowledge and exalted it to facts. There's no application of the standard. Whereby they can say what the Lord desires of them and how they're applying it in their search and interactions with the opposite sex.

If you've ever heard anyone talk about what they'll do as a parent and watched them become a parent you know what mean. The reality is light years away from what they said. Now they're living it. Until you live it you don't know how you'll respond.

You have to develop that mindset. The way you do is through example and instruction. You share your experiences and work through the lessons. You use real life examples to drive home the principles. You sit and watch a movie and have them explain the character's mistakes. What should they have done differently? How would it have turned out if they had? What did they miss?

Then you tie it back to the word. You've reinforced the directive and provided an opportunity for them to grasp the consequences of its presence and absence. With constancy they'll develop a balanced mindset and become wise.

Once you've clarified what's best you go outside and point it out. You pinpoint what's acceptable and unacceptable. They learn to look cautiously, listen carefully, and read body language. Visual reminders solidify the point. I did it in conjunction with a familial standard. This is how a gentleman looks, behaves, etc. so there's no confusion.

You don't wait until they're teens or adolescents. You get them when they're fresh. By doing so you minimize wrong connections and influences. The foundation is laid before adolescence. You add more over the years according to their maturity and experiences. I used a value theme. Every year we focused on one topic. By the time they reach adulthood they have a lot of teaching.

They don't have to be extroverted or outgoing. Knowledge and understanding will give them confidence. They'll have a readiness their peers lack. Fear and rejection won't have a death grip. They know what they're looking for.

The issue with that advice is I need reasons to be confident, and that's not a reason, that's a need. Reasons would be that I have this trait that is attractive, or this trait that will make someone want to be closer to me rather than distance themselves. It's as much of a faith in humanity thing as it is liking myself. I seem to be mismatched - God might not have made junk, but people don't value what he did well in me enough to give me the social regard that attractive guys get for free.

There's two sides to that comment: What society esteems and its impact on the mating process. You have to let them know what they're up against. You teach him how to play offense against his deficiencies. How can we counter this? Everyone has good and bad points.

Then we discuss what the opposite sex is seeking. What they acknowledge openly and the hidden things they won't admit. How many do you have? Let's count. You want him to understand his position consciously so he knows how they see him and it's not a surprise.

Finally, you address the myths. You mentioned attractiveness. But what do statistics tell us? Most people mate along similar lines of attractiveness. Yes, there can be differences at times. But it isn't the norm.

You have to tackle money too. How it affects their appeal to the opposite sex and the problems it brings. What are the myths in that area? You talk about the Cinderella effect, Pretty Woman fantasy, and power couples. When you start looking at data you get a different picture. Money often chooses its own and that's who they marry. They'll play with the others.

Some still do, but I have to find them, and they also have to find me attractive, and they should have good enough heads on their shoulders to reject liberal ideas that encourage women to be the opposite way. Simply being sheltered isn't enough. Her mind needs to be resistant to the mind virus that is the rejection of these good traits.

There are more Christian men desiring women with 'submissive qualities' than available. Most marriages are egalitarian. I studied 1 Peter in a conservative evangelical church and when we hit chapter 3 you could hear a pin drop. I was the only one clapping. That's my shtick but they were frowning.

Submissive women are born not made. Women with that disposition aren't swayed by ideologies that oppose their core. That's her default. Whether she's in Christ or not. Women like that are rare. A woman can develop a surrendered spirit that enables her to yield. But it's a long process. She has to purge the debris and replace it with good fruit. There's always a possibility of contamination. She agreed within. There's a necessity for vigilance to prevent a slide. Being in the company of people like her former self can be harmful. Whereas the other can ignore them.

There's someone like that on the board. She could hear the craziest things and it would roll right off of her. As if she never heard it. Because her innards are yielded. Girls like that you marry. I don't care how she looks. You've eliminated most of your arguments. She has an innate desire to follow you. You make it work.

That sounds wonderful. If that happens to me, I hope I don't blow it by showing too much appreciation at once. If you do that, women see you as needy and that is the beginning of the end.

Be your wonderful self. If God made you appreciative and kindhearted walk in it. You don't diminish your beauty for anyone. If they can't handle it that's their problem. But you keep shining.

Out of a wife? Respect, peace, sex, honesty, honor, faithfulness, someone who can do things I can't get around to because I'm only one person, someone who can take me to/from the doctor if I become incapacitated (I have an upcoming procedure), someone who will be a good aunt to my nephews and niece, someone who will be a good mother to any children we might have (and it frustrates me that I am still apprehensive at the thought of having kids since having a confident answer to that question is needed), and someone who can endure me and stay with me when I'm at my worst. I do what I can to avoid getting there, but she has to be willing and able to weather my inevitable failures.

You're not asking for the impossible. You're asking for a helpmeet. Don't settle for less.

That's more than just masculinity, the guys there were all masculine, a couple were former athletes, another grew up farming. What I think you're getting at is the alpha male stereotype, which is a minority of men, I've heard between the top 5% or 20%, I'm not exactly sure what it is.

I don't use that term. It's a combination of personality traits and behavior. I believe it's imperative that everyone likes themselves. To possess a true regard for their being. You may not like where you're at or what you're going through. But that doesn't diminish your worth or lovability.

But if that's all that most women really want, there's a serious imbalance. And if you're not one of those guys, if the girl you're with is settling, then how safe and solid is that relationship, really?

A lot of this is ego driven. They're compensating for insecurities, failures, and keeping up with the Joneses through their selections. The question everyone must answer is why this person needs a man or woman like me. What's going on in their life that justifies the bond? Why am I the best fit?

When you start asking the question you realize people are reaching for things they have no use for. They like the idea of having it. That's why I focus on what people are doing rather than what they want to do some day. If the desire is genuine you'll see evidence of its performance. Even if they can't afford it.

If you want home cooked meals get someone who's passionate about cooking now. Not the one living on takeout. She hasn't trained herself to do it. In like fashion, I value leadership greatly. The man who feels the same will work towards becoming an exceptional leader. Not when we're married. He's busy right now. Because it matters to him.

 

[DragonFox91]

I can't find the posts where we were discussing what we learned about dating growing up, so:

Growing up, whenever I mentioned dating to people, I got laughed at. By people who knew me well, who didn't know me well, parents, family, etc. It was a 'you're too young to worry about it' kind of thing. Or 'it'll happen when you're older'. It's like I wasn't allowed to talk about it or want it.

A few months ago my dad brought up dating to me & my sister smirked. Not sure why. She don't even know me or really care for me.......

I think these are signs God just doesn't want me to date, unfortunately, & it makes me sad. I don't think he wants me to & it makes me sad.

I'm not allowed to want it.

 

[bèlla]

Unfortunately, some parents don't address it. They're looking at the subject from their perspective. But times have changed. The numbers are shrinking. When members mentioned a lack of dates and experience I spoke to older relatives about it. They all said the same. That wasn't the case back then.

We've entered a different period and that requires a different approach. You can't assume this or that because the feedback says otherwise. It's harder to find someone today than it was in the past. That can't be ignored.

 

[pc_76]

This is not always true. God simply does not care as much about our love lives as we do. And we simply do not care as much about our own holiness and moral purity as he does. He's still worth following but it is what it is.

Since Messiah was already born, God has less incentive to ensure certain people get married.

So less people get to be with someone or married now because Jesus was born?

 

[Sketcher]

So less people get to be with someone or married now because Jesus was born?

No, I'm saying that Jesus coming into the world and performing his mission was the top priority, at least since Genesis 3:15. Certain people needed to get married and have children down the line for that to happen, and God made sure that happened. Any OT hints of God being a matchmaker must be taken with this in mind. Since Jesus has come, there is no reason to believe that God would have the same level of intentionality as matchmaker today, for all of us as he would have had for the earthly ancestors of Jesus.

 

[pc_76]

I wanted to be born and live in a different time so I could live during society's relatively "good run" and I thought I'd have more luck with getting the kind of thing I desires. Then I will be over 50 by the time that everything started getting horrible condition and it made Jesus have to return.