2018 outpouring, are you feeling it? I am!

[Dorothy Mae]

I am not saying we do not have authority to cast out devils and pray for the sick. But this is not what a fire tunnel is, and we do not see or read about people flopping around and jerking uncontrollably in the bible, that is unless they are demon possessed. None of the scriptures you quoted substantiates what we see in these so called fire tunnels.

You can find that experience in the Hindu Kundanlini religion. That is what they do and yes, it is accomplished by laying on of hands. And yes, the recepients report feelings of love and warmth and euphoria. Andrew Strom has an excellent series on this phenomena. What you do not see coming out of this, either in what used to be Christian churches and openly Kundalini meetings, is an increase in understanding that comes with walking and talking with God.

If I ever meet someone who experienced this (to include walking about for an hour and praying) I am going to ask them if in all their praying, did God speak anything to them. If so, what? If one really encounters the real Holy Spirit, the experience teaches something real, not merely gives one a good time.

Seems to me the goal in these kinds of things is a spiritual high....having a good time....feeling great....experiencing something wonderful. I do not see any of the men who walked with God in the Bible seeking to feel anything close to this. They sought God Himself, not the feeling one gets that makes one happy.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You don't get it do you, I DON"T CARE WHAT YOU CALL IT. Where does the BIBLE call it that?
King David, the man after God's heart dancing naked before Him???? I call fire tunnels as much more self controlled than that? So David must have been wrong, by your judgmental standards. The point I'm making, and you are not getting is, there was no such thing as Sunday school spelled out in scripture. Not being in scripture doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it wrong.


Even that sounds like a religious spirited answer to me also. It also looks like plain old waffling.

Is this a fruit of the "fire tunnel" religion? When the real Holy Spirit enters a man, he is full of the fruits of that event as described in the Bible. Your post here does not reflect any of those fruits. (Btw, David was not naked when he danced.) Jesus said to judge a matter by the presence or absence of the fruit of the HOLY spirit in the life or not. This is a valid reason to test the claim. Your post does not reflect those fruits as described in the Bible.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

You can find that experience in the Hindu Kundanlini religion. That is what they do and yes, it is accomplished by laying on of hands. And yes, the recepients report feelings of love and warmth and euphoria. Andrew Strom has an excellent series on this phenomena. What you do not see coming out of this, either in what used to be Christian churches and openly Kundalini meetings, is an increase in understanding that comes with walking and talking with God.

If I ever meet someone who experienced this (to include walking about for an hour and praying) I am going to ask them if in all their praying, did God speak anything to them. If so, what? If one really encounters the real Holy Spirit, the experience teaches something real, not merely gives one a good time.

Seems to me the goal in these kinds of things is a spiritual high....having a good time....feeling great....experiencing something wonderful. I do not see any of the men who walked with God in the Bible seeking to feel anything close to this. They sought God Himself, not the feeling one gets that makes one happy.

Amen. I think Jesus said something about a generation that seeks a sign.

 

[Hillsage]

Thanks so much,That is very interesting and
Informative. Can you tell I am holy Spirit filled?

I honestly don’t know. I wasn’t there to hear you speak the one sentence that you did. Had I been, I would have at least had the ‘chance’ to discern better. I believe from what I’ve read you are a sincere believer.

 

[justbyfaith]

You're quite the hostile person. I never said there were no false teachers in my world. YOU said that. Even when false in my world have not been dealt with, I at least quit listening to them myself. However, I would confidently argue that there are more false teachers found in the pentecostal and charismatic churches than most others.

And I wasn't judging you. You were holding someone else to 1 Corinthians. It's best if you do the same for yourself. And growing up pentecostal, I know first hand that those churches do NOT worry about that part of 1 Corinthians. If they did, it would be obvious that they disregard it.

Did you decide I'm lying because I didn't capitalize pentecostal? Yikes. I grew up in the Assemblies of God. Spent middle and high school years in Church of God of Tennessee. After high school and getting married I was back in the Assemblies of God until 28, with about 7 months of Pentecostal Church of God sprinkled in. Both of my grandfathers were pentecostal pastors. Trust me, I have more than enough understanding of Pentecostal and charismatic churches.

Do you have a prayer language yourself?

 

[justbyfaith]

IHOP, Bethel, it is all the same. Isn't IHOP the one that propped up the likes of Todd Bently who kicks old lady in the stomach and divorces his wife and marries another woman who he was having an affair with then puts her in ministry....

Maybe someday you will start reading your bible more than seeking signs and emotions. Did ya watch any of the videos I posted? To break this down with a bible study is just too long and I really do not think you are interested in such a thing. For the small amount of scripture I already posted you twist and disregard so I have to believe any further examination of scripture with you would just result in the same.

From my understanding those elders brought him under their authority so they could put him down later, because they knew he wasn't right.

 

[Hillsage]

Is this a fruit of the "fire tunnel" religion? When the real Holy Spirit enters a man, he is full of the fruits of that event as described in the Bible. Your post here does not reflect any of those fruits.

FYI I’m pretty sure that a fire tunnel isn’t a ‘religion’.

Quote one verse proving someone is “full of the fruit” upon whatever “the Holy Spirit entering a man” means to you. If you would have saved in it to be ‘full of the potential’ to ‘cultivate’ the fruit of the spirit, I would agree.

My posts reflect no more and no less ability to correctly judge fruit than you have just posted, in your ‘first ever’ post to me.

(Btw, David was not naked when he danced.) Jesus said to judge a matter by the presence or absence of the fruit of the HOLY spirit in the life or not. This is a valid reason to test the claim. Your post does not reflect those fruits as described in the Bible.

The general “Christian” claim of David dancing naked is simply the cultural equivalent of saying one was naked in showing up at the White House in torn jeans and a tee shirt to meet the president. And once again your ability to judge fruit here is equivalent to judging Jesus in the Bible based upon how he treated the Pharisees.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

FYI I’m pretty sure that a fire tunnel isn’t a ‘religion’.

Neither is the Holy Spirit and still fruit of him being in a life are transparent.

Quote one verse proving someone is “full of the fruit” upon whatever “the Holy Spirit entering a man” means to you. If you would have saved in it to be ‘full of the potential’ to ‘cultivate’ the fruit of the spirit, I would agree.

Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruit. I do not know any Christian who thinks the fruit of the Holy Spirit means to be full of the potential or cultivating. If a person comes out of a "fire tunnel" having had an amazing sensation and that is it, the whole thing is questionable if it wasn't beforehand.

My posts reflect no more and no less ability to correctly judge fruit than you have just posted, in your ‘first ever’ post to me.

I did not say you can or do judge fruit. Your defense of your "fire tunneal" had an animosity that is not indicative of the Holy Spirit being involved but another spirit. Writing "I don't care what you call it" in caps an bold and lying about David being naked indicate that something unholy is at work.

The general “Christian” claim of David dancing naked is simply the cultural equivalent of saying one was naked in showing up at the White House in torn jeans and a tee shirt to meet the president.

But David was not. And I have never heard the term "naked" applied to one's apparel without it meaning a lack of appearal. If one uses "naked" meaning without words or defense or something besides clothes, it is a metaphor. But once applied to clothes, it ceases being a metaphor and becomes a description. A fruit of the Holy Spirit in your life woudl have been to admit that was a poor choice of words instead of defending it. You lied about David and now you defend it with something untrue. Showing up at the white house poorly dressed is called "poorly dressed" or "shabby" or "tasteless."

And once again your ability to judge fruit here is equivalent to judging Jesus in the Bible based upon how he treated the Pharisees.

Huh? I am not judging Jesus but your thinking judging your behaviour is judging Jesus is again a fruit of an unholy spirit. You defend instead of respond in humility. You are not Jesus and Jesus told us to judge the fruit of other's lives to know who is telling the truth and who is in the deceiving/ed camp.

I have been looking for a way to judge this fire tunnel, Bethel, Toronto blessing business and this is proving to be a resource. I have suspected it was not of God for some time. Everything I see seems to confirm that.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are no private prayer languages. The Bible doesn't teach that. If someone is not speaking in an actual language used by people, then what they are doing is not found in the Bible.

And why would someone need to speak to God in gibberish? Doesn't God understand the languages used by men?

1 Corinthians 13:1 speaks of the tongues as possibly speaking in the language of angels.

 

[justbyfaith]

Neither is the Holy Spirit and still fruit of him being in a life are transparent.
Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruit. I do not know any Christian who thinks the fruit of the Holy Spirit means to be full of the potential or cultivating. If a person comes out of a "fire tunnel" having had an amazing sensation and that is it, the whole thing is questionable if it wasn't beforehand.
I did not say you can or do judge fruit. Your defense of your "fire tunneal" had an animosity that is not indicative of the Holy Spirit being involved but another spirit. Writing "I don't care what you call it" in caps an bold and lying about David being naked indicate that something unholy is at work.
But David was not. And I have never heard the term "naked" applied to one's apparel without it meaning a lack of appearal. If one uses "naked" meaning without words or defense or something besides clothes, it is a metaphor. But once applied to clothes, it ceases being a metaphor and becomes a description. A fruit of the Holy Spirit in your life woudl have been to admit that was a poor choice of words instead of defending it. You lied about David and now you defend it with something untrue. Showing up at the white house poorly dressed is called "poorly dressed" or "shabby" or "tasteless."
Huh? I am not judging Jesus but your thinking judging your behaviour is judging Jesus is again a fruit of an unholy spirit. You defend instead of respond in humility. You are not Jesus and Jesus told us to judge the fruit of other's lives to know who is telling the truth and who is in the deceiving/ed camp.

I have been looking for a way to judge this fire tunnel, Bethel, Toronto blessing business and this is proving to be a resource. I have suspected it was not of God for some time. Everything I see seems to confirm that.

I think what he is saying is that, for example, Jesus told the Pharisees that their father was the devil. Is that the fruit of an unholy spirit? But that is certainly more volatile than calling someone judgmental, when the shoe fits.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think what he is saying is that, for example, Jesus told the Pharisees that their father was the devil. Is that the fruit of an unholy spirit? But that is certainly more volatile than calling someone judgmental, when the shoe fits.

Who is who in the senerio? Or am I misunderstanding?

There is a place where saying "get behind me Satan for you have the interests of man in mind" is correct, I assume. As far as I recall, Jesus was not having a discussion with the Pharises and losing the disagreement so resorted to name calling.

 

[Hillsage]

Neither is the Holy Spirit and still fruit of him being in a life are transparent.
Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruit. I do not know any Christian who thinks the fruit of the Holy Spirit means to be full of the potential or cultivating. If a person comes out of a "fire tunnel" having had an amazing sensation and that is it, the whole thing is questionable if it wasn't beforehand.
I did not say you can or do judge fruit. Your defense of your "fire tunneal" had an animosity that is not indicative of the Holy Spirit being involved but another spirit. Writing "I don't care what you call it" in caps an bold and lying about David being naked indicate that something unholy is at work.
But David was not. And I have never heard the term "naked" applied to one's apparel without it meaning a lack of appearal. If one uses "naked" meaning without words or defense or something besides clothes, it is a metaphor. But once applied to clothes, it ceases being a metaphor and becomes a description. A fruit of the Holy Spirit in your life woudl have been to admit that was a poor choice of words instead of defending it. You lied about David and now you defend it with something untrue. Showing up at the white house poorly dressed is called "poorly dressed" or "shabby" or "tasteless."
Huh? I am not judging Jesus but your thinking judging your behaviour is judging Jesus is again a fruit of an unholy spirit. You defend instead of respond in humility. You are not Jesus and Jesus told us to judge the fruit of other's lives to know who is telling the truth and who is in the deceiving/ed camp.

All I'm reading is your 'opinion' which you are certainly entitled to. And your judgments concerning my judgment simply implys to me that 'the shoe does fit' and you just don't like it....understood. Judging fruit comes from tasting, and for me, taking a bite of 'your fruit' here, is just like 'the bowl' on my mom's table growing up....'might' even look real good superficially, but couldn't pass the test of being bit into.....all plastic.

I have been looking for a way to judge this fire tunnel, Bethel, Toronto blessing business and this is proving to be a resource. I have suspected it was not of God for some time. Everything I see seems to confirm that.

We've also been trying to show you the way to truly judge these things 'spiritually'. And because of "ungifted" and "unlearnedness" Paul is pretty much saying 'everything you see' is filtered through the eyes of those incapable, which fits perfectly with what I see...and hear. So it pretty much boils down to "the eye of the beholder".

 

[2Timothy2:15]

From my understanding those elders brought him under their authority so they could put him down later, because they knew he wasn't right.

...

 

[justbyfaith]

Hank Hanegraaf lives in a pretty big house too...he is what we would consider to be quite wealthy...and yet he is the one who has primarily railed on those who believe in and pray what the Bible teaches us in Psalms 118:25. Now I am not saying that prosperity teaching should be our focus; because our focus should be the good news of Jesus dying on the Cross. But impaho, it has its place. Before prosperity teaching, many who were wealthy may have considered themselves to be outside the realm of what is savable by God. But now that it has had its place, and done its job, certain wealthy people have come into the kingdom because they found that it is not having wealth that is the problem, but that it is idolizing wealth that is the problem. The right way of dealing with the wealthy in the church, impaho, is to exhort them to be willing to communicate and ready to distribute, rich in good works, and that they should not trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.

 

[justbyfaith]

And I was unaware that they had reinstated him (Todd Bentley) after putting him down. But as someone who goes to Calvary Chapel, I am not against the restoration of pastors who have fallen down; that is something that Calvary Chapel does well.

 

[justbyfaith]

Who is who in the senerio? Or am I misunderstanding?

There is a place where saying "get behind me Satan for you have the interests of man in mind" is correct, I assume. As far as I recall, Jesus was not having a discussion with the Pharises and losing the disagreement so resorted to name calling.

That was with Peter, not the Pharisees. The story I am thinking of is in John 8:30-59.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Hank Hanegraaf lives in a pretty big house too...he is what we would consider to be quite wealthy...and yet he is the one who has primarily railed on those who believe in and pray what the Bible teaches us in Psalms 118:25. Now I am not saying that prosperity teaching should be our focus; because our focus should be the good news of Jesus dying on the Cross. But impaho, it has its place. Before prosperity teaching, many who were wealthy may have considered themselves to be outside the realm of what is savable by God. But now that it has had its place, and done its job, certain wealthy people have come into the kingdom because they found that it is not having wealth that is the problem, but that it is idolizing wealth that is the problem. The right way of dealing with the wealthy in the church, impaho, is to exhort them to be willing to communicate and ready to distribute, rich in good works, and that they should not trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.

This is kind of off topic anyhow which is why I pulled the last post. I think Hank was exposed a few years back anyhow.

 

[Hillsage]

Hank Hanegraaf lives in a pretty big house too...he is what we would consider to be quite wealthy...and yet he is the one who has primarily railed on those who believe in and pray what the Bible teaches us in Psalms 118:25. Now I am not saying that prosperity teaching should be our focus; because our focus should be the good news of Jesus dying on the Cross. But impaho, it has its place. Before prosperity teaching, many who were wealthy may have considered themselves to be outside the realm of what is savable by God. But now that it has had its place, and done its job, certain wealthy people have come into the kingdom because they found that it is not having wealth that is the problem, but that it is idolizing wealth that is the problem. The right way of dealing with the wealthy in the church, impaho, is to exhort them to be willing to communicate and ready to distribute, rich in good works, and that they should not trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.

Impaho????

 

[justbyfaith]

Impaho????

In my personal and humble opinion. (which has been mistaken for, "in my perfect and honest opinion."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

All I'm reading is your 'opinion' which you are certainly entitled to. And your judgments concerning my judgment simply implys to me that 'the shoe does fit' and you just don't like it....understood. Judging fruit comes from tasting, and for me, taking a bite of 'your fruit' here, is just like 'the bowl' on my mom's table growing up....'might' even look real good superficially, but couldn't pass the test of being bit into.....all plastic.

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion too and I don't even "qualify" it as though that is really dubious. Again, for the second time, I do not recall mentioning you judging. You did have a questionable response to others. But now you are judging and it is rather questionable. How can you taste it? But as I said, you have the right to your opinion. I am glad to have seen the fruit of the walk of fire or whatever you call it.

We've also been trying to show you the way to truly judge these things 'spiritually'. And because of "ungifted" and "unlearnedness" Paul is pretty much saying 'everything you see' is filtered through the eyes of those incapable, which fits perfectly with what I see...and hear. So it pretty much boils down to "the eye of the beholder".

This is a pretty good cover up to tell yourself. Spiritualize everything and call others incapable. I mean you yelled at someone. No need some spiritual gift to see how that measures up. And now you bold and put in "" and so on. Plain words will not suffice.
Thanks for the examples. I will keep an eye on the fruit of the walk of fire in your words and how you treat others. That whole experience is suspect and all I ever hear anyone talk about is the euphoria they experience. (more "spiritual" words, of course.)