How Does Dismantling LBJ's Great Society Make America Great Again? (Ans. It doesn't.)

Fantine · Jul 4, 2025

I am sorry. Sometimes I just want to emphasize certain words. It wasn't a quote--just a generalization I have heard a lot of people make.
LBJ made a lot more changes than what I call the Great Society and what you called the welfare state. They may have helped. The Voting Rights Act. Civil rights legislation. The end of de jure segregation. Certainly affirmative action programs helped black people prosper and thrive in the United States. I'm not sure who started the Upward Bound program, but this also has made a great difference in the lives of blacks, Native Americans, and anyone who is trying to become a first generation college student in their family. One of my children was an Upward Bound tutor/ counselor with Native Americans and he learned as much as he taught, becoming a much more compassionate human being. So, except for mischaracterizing our economy as a welfare state, you did identify other factors--many also initiated by LBJ.

Larniavc · Jul 4, 2025

d taylor said:
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How can American government dictate China's working conditions?

What?

d taylor · Jul 4, 2025

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MSN

A Growing Culture of Government Dependency | The U.S. House Committee on the Budget - House Budget Committee

rjs330 · Jul 5, 2025

d taylor said:
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Prison they are all ready at maxim capacity .

Mississippi prisons may soon exceed capacity – Jackson Advocate

Sounds like we need to build more prisons. And to be clear, there are probably people in prison (which are normally felons only, you don’t go to prison for smoking weed) who maybe shouldnt be. But we are letting out violent offenders who need to be there. We need more prisons to lock away the violent people and those who are repeat felons. I'm also for complete prison reform. We are doing little to nothing to help the non-violent felons become good members of society once they are out, so they have no need to repeatedly offend. Some will anyway because there are people like that in the world. I know, Ive met them.

rjs330 · Jul 5, 2025

Larniavc said:
That's because employers give such poor working conditions.

Where? In Somalia?

rjs330 · Jul 5, 2025

RDKirk said:
Reform in prison is less useful when the system is rigged against them getting employment afterward.

I think that is VERY true.

Larniavc · Jul 5, 2025

rjs330 said:
Where? In Somalia?

The good old US of A!

America has the 'Fair Labour Standards Act' to protect it's workers. But compared to European Country's provisions it's dire in terms of worker protections and benefits. For example I get about 40 days off per year (no questions asked). If I'm ill I won't get sacked. I can't get sacked without a valid reason (no at will sacking). My wife had a year off work for child birth (I had four weeks off and went part time for a year) and whenever I need a day off because the boy is ill or something work is always fine with that.

American's don't seem to realise that their working conditions are really grim compared to over here )or in fact most western nations).

RDKirk · Jul 5, 2025

Larniavc said:
The good old US of A!

America has the 'Fair Labour Standards Act' to protect it's workers. But compared to European Country's provisions it's dire in terms of worker protections and benefits. For example I get about 40 days off per year (no questions asked). If I'm ill I won't get sacked. I can't get sacked without a valid reason (no at will sacking). My wife had a year off work for child birth (I had four weeks off and went part time for a year) and whenever I need a day off because the boy is ill or something work is always fine with that.

American's don't seem to realise that their working conditions are really grim compared to over here )or in fact most western nations).

“Pardon him. He believes the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature.”-- George Bernard Shaw in Caesar and Cleopatra (1898).

Fantine · Jul 5, 2025

I have heard that many times about Europe, and of course they also have medical care and better educational benefits, "real" pensions, etc.

When AI gains a stronger foothold, there will be less work to go around, and we will either have massive unemployment and a larger underclass than we have today, or we will have full employment with shorter workweeks.

So what are Republicans trying to do? Raise the retirement age to 70. Deport immigrants to decrease the numbers of workers and make more jobs available.

They "want" things but they don't give good incentives. I'll bet, Larniavc, that knowing you and your wife had ample leave to care for your infant was a good incentive for you to have a child, and perhaps another in the future.

Average child care costs in the US:

Estimated Revenue for Child Day Care Services Climbed as Child Care Options Declined in 2021

Census Bureau data show that estimated revenue for Child Day Care Services increased all but one year from 2014 to 2021.

www.census.gov

A brief drawing of available data across 47 states show child care prices for a single child ranged from $4,810 a year for school-age home-based care in small counties to $15,417 for infant center-based care in vengry large counties. When adjusted for inflation, this equals between $5,357 and $17,171 in 2022 dollars. These price ranges were equivalent to between 8% and 19.3% of median family income per child in paid care.

So in 2022, infant care for one is about $350 a week. Mothers have no paid leave (and perhaps 12 weeks of unpaid leave IF the employer has 50 or more employees?) and so they have to go back to work with very little pay to show for it. If they have one infant and one shool age child that's about $450 a week in 2022 dollars.

I was a lucky mom/

I guess. I never "worked" till my children were in school, although I dabbled in different income producing activities, mostly writing articles, teaching piano, and playing music at churches, fashion shows, etc. Lots of volunteering. Most mothers are not that fortunate, and some mothers have job skills that have to remain current. If they take 6 years off no one wants to hire them. TBT, that's one reason why I always kept my hand in part-time things to keep my resume current.

Belk · Jul 5, 2025

rjs330 said:
Sounds like we need to build more prisons. And to be clear, there are probably people in prison (which are normally felons only, you don’t go to prison for smoking weed) who maybe shouldnt be. But we are letting out violent offenders who need to be there. We need more prisons to lock away the violent people and those who are repeat felons. I'm also for complete prison reform. We are doing little to nothing to help the non-violent felons become good members of society once they are out, so they have no need to repeatedly offend. Some will anyway because there are people like that in the world. I know, Ive met them.

I agree with most of your post. We need much better non violent prisoner reform and reintegration. The one part I disagree with is the idea you don't go too prison for smoking weed. According to the Marijuana policy project there are millions of prisoners behind bars for weed. Some even in states where it is now legal ironically enough.

How many federal marijuana prisoners are there?

We Change Laws!

www.mpp.org

Fervent · Jul 5, 2025

Fantine said:
These programs: Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Medicare, Medicaid, Headstart, Higher Education Act (Pell Grants, student loans), Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, Immigration Act of 1965.

That list is a fairly mixed bag, ranging from ones with purely positive impacts to ones with largely negative ones. As an example of negatives, student loans have done little to help and have created a great deal of harm by making college an expectation/gateway to employment and leading to a lot of individuals starting their adult life with an often almost insurmountable amount of debt. The institutions have benefited, but not the populace at large.

Fantine · Jul 5, 2025

Fervent said:
That list is a fairly mixed bag, ranging from ones with purely positive impacts to ones with largely negative ones. As an example of negatives, student loans have done little to help and have created a great deal of harm by making college an expectation/gateway to employment and leading to a lot of individuals starting their adult life with an often almost insurmountable amount of debt. The institutions have benefited, but not the populace at large.

I think that education is valuable in so many more ways than as a gateway to employment. In addition, our high school grads are not as prepared for the future as grads of most schools in Europe and certainly Asia. Our math, science, and reading stats are woeful compared to many of theirs because many have dispensed with long summer vacations and have longer school days.

I feel as if, as a senior citizen, I am a lifelong learner. I love reading, attending conferences and workshops, gaining knowledge however I can. I just finished "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. Never read it in high school with the nuns (my husband said he had in public high school) but feel it should be required reading for every young adult. This is what we are trying to protect you from, young people. We are on a slippery slope and there are many out there who would happily let people slide off.

Fervent · Jul 5, 2025

Fantine said:
I think that education is valuable in so many more ways than as a gateway to employment. In addition, our high school grads are not as prepared for the future as grads of most schools in Europe and certainly Asia. Our math, science, and reading stats are woeful compared to many of theirs because many have dispensed with long summer vacations and have longer school days.

I feel as if, as a senior citizen, I am a lifelong learner. I love reading, attending conferences and workshops, gaining knowledge however I can. I just finished "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair. Never read it in high school with the nuns (my husband said he had in public high school) but feel it should be required reading for every young adult. This is what we are trying to protect you from, young people. We are on a slippery slope and there are many out there who would happily let people slide off.

Education is important, sure. But student loans have led to a watering down of the education at both college and high school levels alongside creating a situation in which employers require degrees that are often largely unrelated to the work making the return on investment a college education used to provide dramatically smaller. Today's college education is often less extensive than a high school education in the 60s would achieve, and what has resulted is a large portion of the populace starting their adult lives behind the 8 ball. Real restrictions on accessibility of college combined with easy access to an easy financing source has led to far above inflationary levels of increases to tuition and other college expeenses. So the impact of college finance reforms has created a number of problems that have been major contributors to the problems faced by Milllenials and Gen Z as the value of a college education has been dramatically diminished while its cost has been dramatically increased, and there's little room to decide not to pursue one for many individuals.

FireDragon76 · Jul 5, 2025

SavedByGrace3 said:
At some point, these programs, designed to assist people and get them back on their feet, did nothing but create ruts where people would rest and make a life of it. They were not designed to become a lifestyle.

Slogans, political propaganda... not an accurate reflection of how these government programs benefited the lives of many vulnerable people.

Larniavc · Jul 5, 2025

Fantine said:
I'll bet, Larniavc, that knowing you and your wife had ample leave to care for your infant was a good incentive for you to have a child, and perhaps another in the future.

We still get tax relief on any childcare we need to spend on after school clubs etc and he’s just turned ten.

rjs330 · Jul 5, 2025

Belk said:
I agree with most of your post. We need much better non violent prisoner reform and reintegration. The one part I disagree with is the idea you don't go too prison for smoking weed. According to the Marijuana policy project there are millions of prisoners behind bars for weed. Some even in states where it is now legal ironically enough.

How many federal marijuana prisoners are there?

We Change Laws!

www.mpp.org

Smoking weed is not a felony anywhere that I've heard of.

Fantine · Jul 5, 2025

Fervent said:
Education is important, sure. But student loans have led to a watering down of the education at both college and high school levels alongside creating a situation in which employers require degrees that are often largely unrelated to the work making the return on investment a college education used to provide dramatically smaller. Today's college education is often less extensive than a high school education in the 60s would achieve, and what has resulted is a large portion of the populace starting their adult lives behind the 8 ball. Real restrictions on accessibility of college combined with easy access to an easy financing source has led to far above inflationary levels of increases to tuition and other college expeenses. So the impact of college finance reforms has created a number of problems that have been major contributors to the problems faced by Milllenials and Gen Z as the value of a college education has been dramatically diminished while its cost has been dramatically increased, and there's little room to decide not to pursue one for many individuals.

There has been a huge effort by the right to turn college into a "trade school." I think it's because they don't want a citizenry that actively engages with the information (and sometimes disinformation) they provide. An uneducated citizenry is more gullible, less critical.

Fervent · Jul 5, 2025

Fantine said:
There has been a huge effort by the right to turn college into a "trade school." I think it's because they don't want a citizenry that actively engages with the information (and sometimes disinformation) they provide. An uneducated citizenry is more gullible, less critical.

IME, education has primarily been focused on teaching the pupils what to think rather than how to think. Particularly my experiences at college there was a distinct pressure from both professors and peers to accept a largely "liberal" ideology and my pragmatic concerns about things like fiscal responsibility always got me scorn. The right tends to be more pragmatic, looking at trivial little things like how someone is going to provide for themselves and their families rather than reaching for lofty ambitions of generalized education. I suppose it is far harder to stage a revolution when you're worried about where your next meal is going to come from, so it must be nice to be able to not worry about such pragmatic concerns. Quite the privilege.

Fantine · Jul 5, 2025

I might have gone to college before you were born. It was in NYC during the Vietnam War years, so of course everyone was liberal. Kent State occurred a month before I got married, and a few of my professors cancelled their classes for the rest of the semester because they refused to teach in a police state. (If they were still teaching today they'd be totally horrified at the state of our nation.) They gave everyone in the class an A. I would have gotten A's anyway and TBT I was just happy to have more time to plan my wedding.
I also took a class on Middle Eastern literature. Although I had many Jewish friends in college I never thought very deeply about Israel. We had the Vietnam War and Nixon and so many other catastrophes to think about (and my fiance was a Vietnam vet going to school on the GI Bill.) I learned so much about Middle Eastern culture and values although I can't remember exactly what books we'd read anymore. It was the end of my senior year and, having fulfilled all my requirements, I just chose it for fun.
Having spent 12 years in Catholic school, I knew what indoctrination was like first hand. I never felt any indoctrination in college. Professors might have their own ideas, but they never told us we'd go to hell if we thought differently LOL. They encouraged us to have our own ideas.

Fervent · Jul 5, 2025

Larniavc said:
The good old US of A!

America has the 'Fair Labour Standards Act' to protect it's workers. But compared to European Country's provisions it's dire in terms of worker protections and benefits. For example I get about 40 days off per year (no questions asked). If I'm ill I won't get sacked. I can't get sacked without a valid reason (no at will sacking). My wife had a year off work for child birth (I had four weeks off and went part time for a year) and whenever I need a day off because the boy is ill or something work is always fine with that.

American's don't seem to realise that their working conditions are really grim compared to over here )or in fact most western nations).

And many who do take it as a point of pride, the good ol' "protestant work ethic"

How Does Dismantling LBJ's Great Society Make America Great Again? (Ans. It doesn't.)

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